Help Contribute with new TechTeams - first step

[Kahless]

NASA wasn't a given though in that case I would love and event to choose weather to create NASA or Keep development with the Airforce or Navy

 

[dannyboy2016]

I've got a some cold war era tech teams for the USA, CHC, and SOV

COLD WAR ERA SOV TEAMS

Name: Sergey Gorshkov
picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Gorshkov.jpg
Skill: 7
research areas: large_taskforce_tactics;rocketry;naval_training;submarine_tactics;seamanship
start date/ end date 1956/1970
why: oversaw the expansion of the Soviet Navy into a global force.

Name: Izhevsk Ordnance Plant
picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Mikhail_Kalashnikov.jpg
skill: 7
research areas: artillery;mechanics;general_equipment;training
start date/end date:1947/1970
why: Mikhail Kalashnikov's design bureau

Name: Andrei Sakharov
picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Sakharov_1943.jpg
skill: 9
research areas: nuclear_physics;nuclear_engineering;mathematics
start date/end date: 1950/1970
why: makes Soviet Union more competitive with USA in race for hydrogen bomb

Name: Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau
picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Mikoyan-Gurevich.jpg
skill: 7
research areas: aeronautics;artillery;electronics;rocketry;technical_efficiency
start date/end date: 1946/1970
why: the famous MiG design bureau, developed many turbojet and supersonic aircrafts

Name: Rubin Central Design Bureau for Marine Engineering
picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Oscar_class_submarine_3.jpg
skill: 6
research areas: naval_engineering;naval_artillery;technical_efficiency;electronics;nuclear_engineering
start date/end date: 1952/1970
why: to give the Sov's a better naval tech team for the late game

Name: Kartsev-Venediktov Design Bureau
picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Uralvagonzavod_building.jpg
skill: 8
research areas: artillery;mechanics;electronics;management;technical_efficiency
start date/end date: 1946/1970
why: designed the T-54A and T-55, T-62, T-72, and T-90 tanks

Name: Konstantin Vershinin
picture: http://www.generals.dk/content/portraits/Vershinin_Konstantin_Andreevich.jpg
skill: 6
research areas: combined_arms_focus;aircraft_testing;bomber_tactics;fighter_tactics
start date/end date: 1947/1970
why: successor to Novikov and gives the cold war era USSR an additional air doctrine tech team

Name: Rodion Malinovsky
picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/Ac.malinovski.jpg
skill: 7
research areas: combined_arms_focus;large_unit_tactics;decentralized_execution;training;individual_courage
start date/end date: 1954/1970
why: as minister of defense he achieved parity with the United States in nuclear weapons and modernized the huge conventional force.

Name: IPMCE
picture: http://www.ipmce.ru/img/contents/3/ipmce-building.jpg
skill: 6
research areas: electronics;mathematics
start date/end date: 1948/1970
why: It*is*the birthplace of*the first high-performance Russian supercomputers, including ones of*BESM and Elbrus series, which formed the basis of*Soviet defense systems and space programs.


COLD WAR ERA US TEAMS


Name: Nasa
picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/NASA_logo.svg
skill: 9
research areas: rocketry;piloting;electronics;mathematics;management
start date/end date: 1958/1970
why: come on, its Nasa!

Name: ArmaLite
picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Armalite_Logo.png
skill: 8
research areas: artillery;training;general_equipment
start date/end date: 1954/1970
why: gives the USA a better infantry tech team for the cold war era

Name: Creighton Abrams
picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/CWAbrams.jpg
skill: 7
research areas: combined_arms_focus;small_unit_tactics;centralized_execution;training
start date/end date: 1960/1970
why: aggressive and successful armor commander who'd make sense as a doctrine researcher for the later period of the game

Name: Arleigh Burke
picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Arleigh_Burke_1951.jpg
skill:7
research areas: carrier_tactics;management;naval_training;large_taskforce_tactics;small_taskforce_tactics
start date/end date: 1949/1962
why: Navy chief under Eisenhower and good replacement for the Nimitz tech team

COLD WAR ERA CHC TEAMS

Name: Tsien Hsue-shen
picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Tsien_Hsue-shen_(Qian_Xue-Sen).jpg
skill: 5
research areas: rocketry;nuclear_physics;nuclear_engineering;aeronautics;technical_efficiency
start date/end date: 1956/1970
why: “Father of Chinese Rocketry,” involved with the Chinese nuclear program, and worked on the Manhattan project

 

[Kahless]

I still would like to See NASA as an Event, just for flavor. Mayeb we could work out something for the Different Paths. Such as Stick with Air Force, Go civilian, Funding to the NAVY. And the different choices could restrict options such as if you eexclude the Navy it will take a long time to develop Missle Subs.

 

[unmerged(129995)]

I think that a big sticking point will always be ComChi/NatChi. No other country can go from minor (NatChi with its crippling penalties everywhere may as well be one) to great power within the timespan of HoI realistically. Of course, if this has already been taken into consideration with revamped victory/surrender events, so much the better, but a reunited NatChi in the 50s that's defeated the Japanese and established a series of puppets in SE Asia that's working with predominantly skill 2 teams is...frustrating, to say the least.

 

[truth is life]

I think that a big sticking point will always be ComChi/NatChi. No other country can go from minor (NatChi with its crippling penalties everywhere may as well be one) to great power within the timespan of HoI realistically. Of course, if this has already been taken into consideration with revamped victory/surrender events, so much the better, but a reunited NatChi in the 50s that's defeated the Japanese and established a series of puppets in SE Asia that's working with predominantly skill 2 teams is...frustrating, to say the least.

Happily, this should be somewhat less problematic in AoD than in vanilla, since tech teams can now gain skill. CHI or CHC still should get a few bonus teams if they beat Japan and win the CCW reflecting more abstract areas of research (nuclear, air, rocketry teams mainly)

 

[B. Rodriguez]

What would NASA have been without Von Braun and the rest of the Germans?

 

[cegorach]

8. All new suggestions should consist of these parts:
a, country
b, name of a team
c, picture
d, skill, areas of research, start date and end date of each team
e, links to look up more info about the team
f, short comment about the reasons for choosing each particular team

Here is a simplified, so somehow primitive renewal of POL techteam set.

It is based on my extensive research about POL technology in the interbellum and during the early post-war period.

Not always an English-language source is available, but I will be happy to answer any more detailed questions.


The list below represents three branches - vanilla Poland, Poland taken over by the communist and communit Poland after stalinist purges.




1. Vanilla POL

First some changes in the initial setup are necessary. The great thing is that now teams can learn, so it won't be such a big problem to define the changes, nor such a big effort to implement them.

Currently POL starts with the following techteams:

2700;COP;T2700;4;1930;1970;mechanics;artillery;technical_efficiency;industrial_engineering;management;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2701;Stefan Banach;T2701;8;1930;1945;mathematics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2702;Stanislaw Ulam;T2702;7;1930;1938;nuclear_physics;nuclear_engineering;mathematics;chemistry;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2703;Fab.Broni Radom;T2703;5;1930;1970;general_equipment;artillery;electronics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2704;Fab. Starachowice;T2704;5;1930;1970;artillery;general_equipment;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2705;PWS;T2705;4;1930;1970;aeronautics;chemistry;electronics;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2706;PZInz;T2706;6;1930;1970;mechanics;artillery;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2707;PZL;T2707;5;1930;1970;aeronautics;chemistry;electronics;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2708;Stocznia Gdynia;T2708;4;1930;1970;naval_engineering;naval_artillery;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2709;Tadeusz Kutrzeba;T2709;4;1930;1944;centralized_execution;large_unit_tactics;training;infantry_focus;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2710;Marian Rejewski;T2710;7;1930;1939;mathematics;electronics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2711;Ludomil Rayski;T2711;4;1930;1944;aircraft_testing;bomber_tactics;piloting;centralized_execution;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2712;Jerzy Swirski;T2712;4;1930;1944;naval_training;small_taskforce_tactics;submarine_tactics;seamanship;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2713; ;T2713;4;1945;1970;large_unit_tactics;centralized_execution;small_taskforce_tactics;fighter_tactics;piloting;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x

First thing would be to change the starting techs.

COP should start in 1937, not in 1936 - it was a massive project, but first results would be available around 1937, not before.

Stefan Banach shouldn't die in 1945. or actually he should, but this one, genius mathematician wasn't the sole person who would develop this science in Poland.
I'm proposing to change his end year to 1970 and rename the team into Polish School of Mathematics (Polska szkola matematyczna).
THis way this man's departure wouldn't result in a massive and totally unfair loss for the whole country.
His portrit might stay because he headed the entire thing and this team's starting skill might be reduced to 7.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_School_of_Mathematics

Stanislaw Ulam shouldn't disappear in 1938 whatever happens. It is the major problem with Poland, the designers apparently decided that since it disappears in 1939 it can live without its best teams which is really frustrating, especially in areas where POL was really good at.


Fab.Broni Radom should be renamed to Panstwowa Wytwórnia Uzbrojenia (National Arms Works). In adiditon it should receive training

mentioned here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Engineering_Works

Slill can be learnt, but new abilities not, so even if the initial skill is reduced to say 4 it will still be better to have it this way.
Picture might stay.

Fab. Starachowice should be named Zaklady Starachowickie. The rest may stay the way it is.

Tadeusz Kutrzeba should stay to 1970 or be replaced by someone else from 1944 - with same skills:
Kazimierz Sosnkowski or Wladyslaw Anders. It will still remain rather abstract because it is hard to predict who would work on doctrines after the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wladyslaw_Anders



Marian Rejewski shouldn't disappear in 1939. That is probably the single, most frustrating and undeserved thing POL player is given whatever he/she does.
The team could be renamed as Biuro Szyfrów (Cipher Bureau)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biuro_Szyfrów

if you want to make it immortal just like Banach, but really gys it is a blunder someone made and it should be changed.

In addition I think the team should be slightly modified gaining mechanics but with skill reduced to 6 - this way it should serve for more time and could research computers a bit better than now. The guys from the Bureau mae some important inventions in that matter so it seems more than deserved.

Ludomil Rayski shouldn't disappear in 1944. Communist takeover can be recreated with ONE event without making POL so unattractive it is now.


same with Jerzy Swirski. POL becomes a stalinist puppet of the USRR -> he drops dead/emigrates, if not he should stay.



Ministry of National Defence activated only if POL is a SOV puppet. See below how I am proposing to deal with that.




Now new teams.

Vanilla POL.

Zaklady Azotowe w Tarnowie

Available from 1936 to 1970 - regardless who controlls POL.

Skill 4 chemistry and industry.

It represents chemical industry in Poland which was very modern for its time, even if relatively small - that is why the skill is around avarage.

The company is still existing so its webpage could be visited for more images.

wiki in German

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakłady_Azotowe_w_Tarnowie-Mościcach_S.A.

POL lacks any dedicated chemical team which seems unfair and the fact it has to resort to use Ulam or PZL to research that is really, really sad.
Skill 4 team with two specialities will do slightly better and could learn which seems much better solution.


That will be a total suprise to many - it was quite a suprise to me - but POL worked on radar technology and had some tangible results.
Apparently to 1939 working prototypes were in testing while Polish scientists helped in refining the technology in Britain during the war.

Presence of a specialised techteam is justified, especially because PIT was dealing with things such as television and radio research such as remote controll of vehicles and missiles - but rocketry will be described below so that is all for now.

PIT starting from 1936 - skill 4 electronics, management and mechanics. Because it can learn it will become better if is in use and with thos specialities it is well tuned to do the research.

More images are available here:

http://www.pit.edu.pl/index.php?s=651

and here

http://www.itl.waw.pl/inst/historia.html

At that time it was known as Panstwowy Instytut Telekomunikacji, but the abbreviation is better because works for post-war period as well.


Now another suprise. Rocket technology was a subject of much research before the war. Initially theoretical with some testing with rocket artillery, mainly rocket propelled granades (solid fuel) more advanced liquid fuel, radio control and tactical use of large rocket missiles became a subject of first decently funded works in 1939.

Sadly I cannot offer any reference in English, but that is only because only not much data survived the war.
Rocket technology was in general one of several projects where Tymczasowy Komitet Doradczo-Naukowy (TKDN) headed by prof. Janusz Groszkowski was active.

ONly in 1939 it became one of primary subjects of its meetings (about which we have data) and tests (which are barely known).

Statements that something was achieved can be supported by the way POL scientists approached the subject when in the underground - working on German V1 and V2 missiles, its electronics and its fuel which all were well researched and the data was sent to Britain.

I believe that TKDN should appear from 1936 because some theory should be possible to research before 1939 and the team should be available in case a POL player finally can invest some time in the research.

So skill 4 chemistry, mechanics and technical efficiency - this way the team would be useful to develop rocketry and rocket artillery.


On, little revision in the industril branch would be the inclusion of the GOP as a weaker, earlier version of the COP

I think it should be a skill 3 copy of COP, but without the artillery speciality.

GOP was the Upper Silesian Industrial Center, because Silesia was autonomous in Poland its impact would be limited for the entire country, but should be here, especially because before the COP was in any shape to affect anything the GOP was already here providing much of the funds and the machinerey for the development of the COP.

Doctrine teams - all available from the beginning, unless said otherwise.

POL has just one which is unrealistic. More teams would offer some possibilites to choose from while they shouldn't make it too easy.

That is why I am proposing:

Centrum Wyszkolenia Piechoty skill 5 - individual courage, infantry focus, small unit tactics
.

Infantry school - less specialised so still worse than Kutrzeba and/or his replacement after/if he leaves.

It was responsible for training of infantry officers - from NCOs to regimental commanders. I'm using the infantry badge because t loos better than this:

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrum_Wyszkolenia_Piechoty

which is from the post war period anyway.

Dowództwo Broni Pancernych was the center dealing with all subjects regarding the armored forces in Poland

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowództwo_Broni_Pancernych

(again only in Polish).

If researched better (as I did) it will become apparent that there was rather interesting doctrine of armored arms developed before the war. The problem was undevelopment and the cost of this military branch which required medium tanks which would be available around 1940 after major industrial development plans would be at least half finished.

For this reason

skill 3, combined arms, technical efficiency, training, smal unit tactics,

Skill might be lowered, but I don't think it is a good idea. The team also covers the subject of paratroopers in the Polish army who were also present and their development was one of those overlooked aspects of the pre-war POL army.

Finally there is the CWOL w Deblinie

skill 5 air testing, piloting and fighter tactics techteam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Air_Force_Academy

Unfortunatelly it is hard to find some exhausting source in English, but the quality of the pilots 'produced' by POland before the war is well known to anyone interested in WW2 air forces, especially fighter units.





Post-war teams

That is a problem, but realtively easy to deal with.

Simply if Poland becomes a puppet of the Soviets so most likely when liberated by it some of its techteams should be dectivated.

That should be - all basic and proposed techteams except Zakłady Azotowe, PIT, the GOP, Panstwowa Wytwórnia Uzbrojenia (so Fab. Broni Radom), Zaklady Starachowickie (so Fab. Starachowice), Stocznia Gdynia and the PZL.
IN adiditon Ministry of National Defence should be activated.

Finally there are some teams which would replace the pre-war research centres.

Michal Rola-Zymierski

skill 3 copy of Kutrzeba,

Stefan Mossor

skill 4, large unit tactics, combined arms, centralised execution, but only to 1949


Industry should get Ursus as skill 4 copy of PZInz

while science would see post-war

Politechnika Warszawska

skill 4 chemistry, nuclear physics, mathematics,

while shipyards would be expanded with the creation of the

Centralne Biuro Konstrukcji Okretowych - skill 4 naval engineering would be fine because it was never going to build warships, but rather transport and civilian ships.

In 1949 massive Sovietization of the POL army started with dozens of SOV officers 'imported' to replace the remaining POl commanders who were usually imprisoned as 'foreign spies'.

That year should bring some changes

Hilary Minc would gain enough influence to remove all remaining opposition.

He could appear from 1949 as skill 5 heavy undystry team - I guess industrial engineering, artillery, mechanics, management

with Soviet marschal Konstantin Rokkosovskiy becoming the commander of the army.

Skill 5, combined arms, mechanics, large unit tactics, centralised execution, training.

That however should also be noted because POL should lose at least 50 % of commanders it has - a separate event of simply the fact of the communist take-over should sleep no less than so many leaders. Actually more - probably 80 %, but that would make the country unplayable wthout its commander list expanded so too much for a simple adjustment I am proposing here.




OK. I guess that is quite enough for now. Hope it is interesting.

I am attaching the pictures - set to 96 x 96 as you will be able to see yourself.

http://rapidshare.com/files/285973402/teamy_dla_vanilla.rar

 

[unmerged(119031)]

I think you are just trying to add too many teams to Poland. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discourage you in any way, if many people started doing some serious research we could have a few tech teams ready and save some time for the devs (If they feel like adding new TTs), but I think we should focus mainly on the major powers. Unless there is a way to implement GIE in the game, or you play it in a very ahistorical way, it's pretty hard to see Poland last more than a few weeks past Danzig. However, a few tech teams could be added, of course, but I wouldn't add these many. Poland will most likely have a limited amount of IC (And consequently, tech teams) up to 39, and if they make it past 39, they'll have probably annexed someone and TT takeover would give you a few extra teams. If you play without TO, well, you could still use a handful of extra teams. But I seriously think focus should be on the major powers, which are much more likely to have the IC for extra slots.

 

[Prinz Wilhelm]

I think you are just trying to add too many teams to Poland. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discourage you in any way, if many people started doing some serious research we could have a few tech teams ready and save some time for the devs (If they feel like adding new TTs), but I think we should focus mainly on the major powers. Unless there is a way to implement GIE in the game, or you play it in a very ahistorical way, it's pretty hard to see Poland last more than a few weeks past Danzig. However, a few tech teams could be added, of course, but I wouldn't add these many. Poland will most likely have a limited amount of IC (And consequently, tech teams) up to 39, and if they make it past 39, they'll have probably annexed someone and TT takeover would give you a few extra teams. If you play without TO, well, you could still use a handful of extra teams. But I seriously think focus should be on the major powers, which are much more likely to have the IC for extra slots.

And I think more is better.

The Swedish improvement pack for HoI2 can be gotten via the Scandinavian forum or contacting "Van der Gent"

Maybe Zuckergußgebäck (if I managed to spell it right.)

 

[LodovicoAriosto]

I think that 2-3 new teams for Poland would be good but primarily we should gather some volunteers who would join this effort. The dev team will not get involved in this until we offer a txt file to copy over the vanilla tech team files.

I have already posted my view on things. So should we add teams to Poland we should also add new teams to Spain, Hungary or Mexico and all majors too.

If we are serious about all this I think that we will need:

1. a guy who will start a new thread, try to get it stickied and regularly update the first post of that thread with team suggestions.

2. people who will commit themselves to carry out some research and bring team suggestion on specific countries.

Ok, now we have the guy for Poland, I have prepared 2-3 CZE teams.

So we still need volunteers for the rest of the world.


Again, if we are serious about this, the effort should be more organised and better marketed (sticky thread, "volunteers sign up" announcement and so on).

 

[Kahless]

8. All new suggestions should consist of these parts:
a, country
b, name of a team
c, picture
d, skill, areas of research, start date and end date of each team
e, links to look up more info about the team
f, short comment about the reasons for choosing each particular team

Does anyone know all the different areas of research that are in the game?
I dont have them all by memory so applying them to suggested tech teams would be hard.

 

[Cardus]

Hi,

everybody knows that the Italian Navy cost a lot of resources to Italy but it was almost ineffective. I would like to point you attention to the Italian's frogmen that by the end of the war sunk, or severely damaged, 86,000 tons of Allied warships and 131,527 tons of merchant shipping. Please find below a short list and a link to a webpage
NAME TONNAGE LOCATION DATE
Durham 10,900 Tons Gibraltar Sep, 1941
Baron Douglas 3,900 Tons Gibraltar July, 1942
Raven's Point 1,900 Tons Gibraltar July, 1942
Kaituna 10,000 Tons Mersin July, 1943
Meta 1,600 Tons Gibraltar July, 1942
Camerata 4,900 Tons Gibraltar May, 1943
Stanridge 6,000 Tons Gibraltar Aug, 1943
Queen Elizabeth 32,000 Tons Alexandria Dec, 1941
Valiant 31,000 Tons Alexandria Dec, 1941
Harmattan 4,600 Tons Algiers Dec, 1942
Jervis 1,700 Tons Alexandria Dec, 1941
Mahsud 7,500 Tons Gibraltar May, 1943
Fernplant 7,000 Tons Iskenderun Aug, 1943
Empire Centaur 7,000 Tons Algiers Dec, 1942
http://www.comandosupremo.com/Decima.htm

Hence

Junio Valerio Scipione Borghese (Artena, Rome, 6 June 1906 – Cadiz, Spain, 26August 1974) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junio_Valerio_Borghese
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Borghese.jpg

Skills 5/6

decentralized_execution; naval_training; small_taskforce_tactics; submarine; seamanship

 

[cegorach]

I think you are just trying to add too many teams to Poland.

I am covering TWO COUNTRIES - pre-war and post war Poland.

Together with the small number of TTs Poland gets it results in this.

Mind that there are three new doctrine teams and four covering anything else.

One for radars, one for chemistry, one for rocketry and jet engines - all areas were researched and with results BEFORE 1939.

GOP is only because COP shouldn't appear from 1936 probably because it wasn't even there at that time.

The rest is for POST-war Poland which was A DIFFERENT country in numerous ways.
It is impossible to keep the same doctrine teams for example.
Same with many scientifical teams - some people died or emigrated or would never serve the stalinist regime (from 1949) or 'even' the 'moderate communists' - and they didn't.

they'll have probably annexed someone and TT takeover would give you a few extra teams.

Indeed. I guess that dumbing down the faction really serves its purpose - why should anyone bother researching anything - there is techteam takeover after all...

Please read this twice - I only provided the most required, the most deserving changes. And I must also add it - all of them are rather well balanced - you won't see here some ridiculous skill 8 or 9 fantasy teams prepared by a frustrated nationalist jerk.

If you play without TO, well, you could still use a handful of extra teams. But I seriously think focus should be on the major powers, which are much more likely to have the IC for extra slots.

Don't get me wrong, but I really didn't have to spend any time presenting those changes.

Actually I didn't have to even run the vanilla game which I did to prepare this list. Something I didn't do for a while...

All that done because some guy here posted that also major minors should receive more techteams.

If you don't like it cut the additional pre-war ground force doctrine teams, but the rest simply cannot be worse. Cannot.

Please blame the scientists who lived in pre-war Poland or the communists, but I cannot be responsible for everything - the basic material is simply in really poor shape because someone didn't make the research he/she should do right.

Poland as it is now is unrealistic, is virtually unplayable and
I DON'T think that using aircraft company to research EVERYTHING - from decryption to oil rafining, rocketry and radar is fair if there were real people, real research teams with real, sometimes very important results.

That is how this country looks like right now - after 1939 you have only PZL and PWS to do all that and more.

Be glad I didn't cover ALL possible angles - fascist Poland, Poland in the exile, Polish Secret State and post-war democratic Poland, but ONLY 'continuation' Poland and communist Poland.


I guess that some other countries should see major changes - communist era teams for Hungary or Romania to name but a few, but because I have some knowledge about Poland I considered a good idea to share some of it because I (forgive my poor judgement) thought it will be useful.





As I said I am ready to explain why something is there and why not.

Unfortunatelly nor didn't I mean explaining something so simple neither the fact why Poland ends with less teams than DENMARK or slightly more than Austria.

If you want a similar example see Spain - you not only have two of them, but EACH is better covered than POL.


Forgive my ranting, but I don't like when a job is so poorly made - and I am not even paid for it like some people are.

 

[cegorach]

Ok, now we have the guy for Poland, I have prepared 2-3 CZE teams.

So we still need volunteers for the rest of the world.

I think I have POL covered well. I tried to finish the subject from my part and only answer questions someone could have.

Researching takes a lot of time and frankly after several months I have enough of it.:wacko:

So separate threads would be too much I believe - with extensive research and some common sense it is all possible to fit in a small series of posts or just in one-two..

 

[LeeDub]

Nice ideas for Polish techteams, although I wonder if some of them aren't too good. Poland was barely above an agricultural country at that time.

In regard to the topic, I feel that now, with a maximum of 10 tech teams conducting research simultaneously, just about every country needs a few more TTs, even if they would have duplicate roles (like 2 or 3 infantry research teams). Ideally every country would have at least 10 teams, but that's sadly impossible.

 

[unmerged(119031)]

I am covering TWO COUNTRIES - pre-war and post war Poland.

Together with the small number of TTs Poland gets it results in this.

Mind that there are three new doctrine teams and four covering anything else.

One for radars, one for chemistry, one for rocketry and jet engines - all areas were researched and with results BEFORE 1939.

GOP is only because COP shouldn't appear from 1936 probably because it wasn't even there at that time.

The rest is for POST-war Poland which was A DIFFERENT country in numerous ways.
It is impossible to keep the same doctrine teams for example.
Same with many scientifical teams - some people died or emigrated or would never serve the stalinist regime (from 1949) or 'even' the 'moderate communists' - and they didn't.





Indeed. I guess that dumbing down the faction really serves its purpose - why should anyone bother researching anything - there is techteam takeover after all...

Please read this twice - I only provided the most required, the most deserving changes. And I must also add it - all of them are rather well balanced - you won't see here some ridiculous skill 8 or 9 fantasy teams prepared by a frustrated nationalist jerk.



Don't get me wrong, but I really didn't have to spend any time presenting those changes.

Actually I didn't have to even run the vanilla game which I did to prepare this list. Something I didn't do for a while...

All that done because some guy here posted that also major minors should receive more techteams.

If you don't like it cut the additional pre-war ground force doctrine teams, but the rest simply cannot be worse. Cannot.

Please blame the scientists who lived in pre-war Poland or the communists, but I cannot be responsible for everything - the basic material is simply in really poor shape because someone didn't make the research he/she should do right.

Poland as it is now is unrealistic, is virtually unplayable and
I DON'T think that using aircraft company to research EVERYTHING - from decryption to oil rafining, rocketry and radar is fair if there were real people, real research teams with real, sometimes very important results.

That is how this country looks like right now - after 1939 you have only PZL and PWS to do all that and more.

Be glad I didn't cover ALL possible angles - fascist Poland, Poland in the exile, Polish Secret State and post-war democratic Poland, but ONLY 'continuation' Poland and communist Poland.


I guess that some other countries should see major changes - communist era teams for Hungary or Romania to name but a few, but because I have some knowledge about Poland I considered a good idea to share some of it because I (forgive my poor judgement) thought it will be useful.





As I said I am ready to explain why something is there and why not.

Unfortunatelly nor didn't I mean explaining something so simple neither the fact why Poland ends with less teams than DENMARK or slightly more than Austria.

If you want a similar example see Spain - you not only have two of them, but EACH is better covered than POL.


Forgive my ranting, but I don't like when a job is so poorly made - and I am not even paid for it like some people are.

You are completely missing my point. Poland getting enough IC to have 10 tech teams is pretty much impossible, or, even if possible, completely unrealistic in every aspect. And don't come at me with nationalistic bullshit, because this post can be shortened to "I'm a pole and I want my country to be cool", most countries have only a fraction of the 'tech teams' (to put it in a way) that they had in RL, so there's no need to start attacking whoever designed vanilla TTs, either. If TTs are added, poland will most likely get a few, but adding these many is just too much. Or do you think every country should have at least 10 TTs in case they somehow survive the Axis/Allied fight while making it to the 10th research slot? I'm not saying Poland should get no TTs at all, but please, Poland will die in 3 weeks, tops, in almost every game.

If there's gonna be some sort of 'research project' to provide some TTs for the devs to pick, we should set some sort of a limit according to each country's status (2 more for minors, 4 for medium powers, 6-8 for majors, something like that)

 

[Cardus]

You are completely missing my point. Poland getting enough IC to have 10 tech teams is pretty much impossible, or, even if possible, completely unrealistic in every aspect. And don't come at me with nationalistic bullshit, because this post can be shortened to "I'm a pole and I want my country to be cool", most countries have only a fraction of the 'tech teams' (to put it in a way) that they had in RL, so there's no need to start attacking whoever designed vanilla TTs, either. If TTs are added, poland will most likely get a few, but adding these many is just too much. Or do you think every country should have at least 10 TTs in case they somehow survive the Axis/Allied fight while making it to the 10th research slot? I'm not saying Poland should get no TTs at all, but please, Poland will die in 3 weeks, tops, in almost every game.

If there's gonna be some sort of 'research project' to provide some TTs for the devs to pick, we should set some sort of a limit according to each country's status (2 more for minors, 4 for medium powers, 6-8 for majors, something like that)

Why are you so rude? Just say that you don't agree and explain the reason. On the matter, I think, you are wrong. Poland, as long as the research performed by cegorach is correct, can have even 10 tech teams. What it should be tested is the skill. As long as the 3 weeks outcome that you mentioned it doesn't change 10 or 20 tech teams will add more historical flavour/accuracy to the game which is good.

 

[unmerged(119031)]

Why are you so rude? Just say that you don't agree and explain the reason. On the matter, I think, you are wrong. Poland, as long as the research performed by cegorach is correct, can have even 10 tech teams. What it should be tested is the skill. As long as the 3 weeks outcome that you mentioned it doesn't change 10 or 20 tech teams will add more historical flavour/accuracy to the game which is good.

I mean 10 simultaneous tech teams researching. Can happen, but it won't certainly happen pursuing a historical course.

I would very much rather have the existing TTs for some countries (Including Poland) modified and a handful added than adding lots of new teams, which will probably see rare use.

And I didn't intend to be rude, but I don't really tolerate when people go all nationalist, or even moderately nationalist.

 

[Cardus]

I mean 10 simultaneous tech teams researching. Can happen, but it won't certainly happen pursuing a historical course.

Agreed. 10 simultaneous tech teams for Poland is a way too far.

I would very much rather have the existing TTs for some countries (Including Poland) modified and a handful added than adding lots of new teams, which will probably see rare use.

As I said as long as the game is not umbalanced because of the new teams adding more flavour and historical accuracy (provided that the reasearch is correct) is good.

And I didn't intend to be rude, but I don't really tolerate when people go all nationalist, or even moderately nationalist.

Please consider that you can make your point without offending anybody.

 

[Prinz Wilhelm]

I mean 10 simultaneous tech teams researching. Can happen, but it won't certainly happen pursuing a historical course.

I would very much rather have the existing TTs for some countries (Including Poland) modified and a handful added than adding lots of new teams, which will probably see rare use.

And I didn't intend to be rude, but I don't really tolerate when people go all nationalist, or even moderately nationalist.

What's wrong with having more tech teams? It gives you more choice, seeing as these people existed and all. Just because it is Poland doesn't mean we have to limit it...