IGC 2.3 Discussion

[Doomdark]

Dai Viet and Ayutthaya are unknown to China in IGC 2.2c. If they are annexed it means one party has gained new maps. At present there is no other way to stop military annexation by China. Diplo-annex can be stopped by a change of religion, but that would be very ahistorical.

 

[Doomdark]

Dagfinn,

Russia seems to have problems with Poland IMO. While they does fearly good against other naitions, Russia never seems to gobbel up Poland. This is a behaviour I'v seen in most OH games.

Yes, I've also noticed this... I will reactivate all Russian leaders for 2.3. However, there is no easy way to simulate the Polish liberum veto that greatly contributed to its downfall. They will also be struck by three (optional) Cossack uprisings 1648-1666.

Persia and Moguhls. Well at first it seemed very good, the Moguhls expanded as they should. But during the 17th century they went bananas and captured several Persian provinces and kicking out the europeeans on the Indian pennisuela. While they where doing this, Persia went ahead and colonized ..... WEST AFRICA
Perhaps you should reduce their colonial dynasm.

I have already tweaked the dynamism a bit for them in 2.3.

Spain: I would like you to adopt my Spanish ai file. I'v edited yours so that Spain doesent colonize the antilles. I think that is quite historical.

You mean the Lesser Antilles I take it. Yes, that would be pretty historical. Is that the only change you made? I suppose you would have to remove the "carribean" region and replace it with specific areas to accomplish this...

Norway (Denmark): The province of Finnmark should have a level one fortress and the capital should be Vardøhus.

Ok.

Iceland should be an Norwegian provinc in the free Norway scenario.

Ok.

 

[Doomdark]

Would you please give Pommerania at least one general please?

Sure, if you can dig someone up from history.

 

[Doomdark]

There are two problems with China in EU:

1) They research far too quickly.
2) They tend to gobble up all of their neighbors (except Japan, for some reason.)

The root cause is that China is far too rich and populous while not being braindead enough. We need to find ways to counteract this.

I can think of the following fixes:

1) Give China a custom ai file with warmongering set to 0 to somewhat lessen the chance of military annexations.
2) Wrack China with hosts of negative events.
3) Reduce the abilities of Chinese monarchs.
4) Drastically reduce the population and income of the "inner" Chinese provinces.
5) Set the state religion of Dai Viet, Auytthaya and Korea to something other than pagan to prevent diplo-annexation.

The problem is that 3, 4 and 5 are totally unhistorical, as is probably 2...

I don't want to drop the SE Asian smaller states, so what do you think, dear forum brothers?

 

[Doomdark]

Maybe we should just put in more relation dropping events for China?

Unfortunately, those events don't seem to work at all!

 

[Doomdark]

But why can we not even have the OPTION for a revolt in the New World colonies when the flag alreay exists.

The problem with the rare US appearance is twofold:

1) It is not possible to add special revolts like the Dutch struggle for independence; it is hardwired into the game.

2) Since you have to pick a capital for the nation that revolts, that province has to be colonized and, preferably, populous. This does not necessarily happen in any given game.

If it was at all possible, I would gladly force something like the Dutch revolt to happen.

 

[Doomdark]

Doomdark, so, taking into considerations the replies, what changes do you plan to implement for China?

(a) warmonger to 0,

Yep. Done that.

(b) monarchs' diplomatic stats lowered to 2-3,

Dip and adm lowered to 1. China is still too strong.

(c) land tech research costs increased,
(d) army maintenance costs increased, etc.

Can't do that for just one nation.

I've also added some harsh events for the Manchu invasions around 1644. Things are a little better, but still not quite satisfactory.

 

[Doomdark]

The IGC 2.3 is done, except for some balancing and the Korean shield graphics (Yes, Korea will be the nation added this time around.) The release is imminent, but there are still a few issues:

1) China. Works better now, but not well enough.
2) Poland. Too strong vs Russia. A real issue with few good solutions.
3) Iroquois. The more I think about them, the more I hate them. They do absolutely nothing and I doubt if I've ever seen the other AI nations conquer them. However, the tag itself is pretty useless.
4) The replacing of the core provinces with temporary CBs in the Balkans has resulted in a Turkey that is not very interested in expansion there. I might have to put a few core provinces back in, much as I hate it.
5) Gen. Suvorov made me aware of a way to introduce "permanent" nationalism in conquered provinces. This could be used for example in Ireland and the Dutch provinces to insure that no invader would ever have an easy time there. However, it could make the game too annoying. Dunno... What do you think?
6) I consider weakening the late (18th century) Swedish, Spanish and Polish monarchs to simulate the state of chaos and decay in these countries. However, such a move would not be much fun for human players...

In the meantime you can look forward to: Sardinia, Korea, Byzantium option (much like the Byzantine Saga), support for the 1520 starting date in the config tool, several fixed crash problems, Polish Cossack uprisings, and much more. This is frankly the largest IGC release in a long time.

 

[Doomdark]

Will you put Japanese CB´s on Korea?

Yes.

Permanent nationalism sounds good, but how do you make it happen?

Permanent nationalism can be implemented by setting the date a province was conquered sometime in the future. Thus, nationalism will not start to decrease until that date passes. So, if it is set to 1793...

Have you looked imto the ai files regarding colonizing, and have you perhaps given more countries their own ai file?

Yes of course. The IGC contains many changed or added ai files.

When will you releas it... (sorry couldnt help it)

Hopefully later today. I might release it as a "beta" though, since the changes are so extensive this time.

 

[Doomdark]

Dagfinn,

But I have commented out the region line in the Spanish ai file...

I will update the Russian file too, but frankly Sweden and Denmark are none too good at colonizing northern Scandinavia either - and they have ai directions to do so.

 

[Doomdark]

State,

Your points have been noted.

 

[Doomdark]

Dagfinn,

The region line is commented out in 2.3 beta. I.e. the line is still there, but it will be ignored as a comment.

Denmark should have their own ai file. Will fix.

 

[Doomdark]

1. Ayuthaya is much more agressive in colonizing, This certainly solves the problem of Mekong being left vacant when the Europeans arrive. However their seems to be no stopping them either. every available open territory had some sort of colony/tp in it by 1510. Including Taiwan. My suggestion would be to exclude Taiwan from Ayuthaya's map.

Hmm. I've not seen them colonize Taiwan. But as you say, that is easily fixed.

2. Korea: I do not know if this was the case with Granada, but Korea can not build armies (or fleets for that matter) Is this inherent with the Granada tag?

This is a bug. Thanks for catching it. (The reason is that I forgot to add a line to the BuildingCosts.)

And one additional thought on the useless Iriquois tag that Doomdark was complaining about. Maybe it could be given to Cambodia which would include Mekong (no offense to any cambodians out there) but after the parial collapse of the Khmer empire in the 14th-15th centuries their was no really strong khmer state, yet using the Iriqois tag for the Khmer kingdoms would solve the problem of leaving Mekong vacant to be colonized and help Dai Viet to expand into Mekong (and possibly cambodia without using colonists)

Sounds fine to me, except for the unit graphics. On the other hand, Korea has also got inappropriate unit graphics now. I think I will leave the Iriquois alone in 2.3 though.

 

[Doomdark]

Hmmm, I just rediscovered that it is not a good idea to lengthen Sweden's vassalage to Denmark again (like I did in the beta). Denmark seems to pump money into Sweden to improve relations, resulting in the dreaded Swedish-Russian-Danish alliance. There is no good solution here, I think. The proper, historical vassalage should end in 1521 like in the GC, but then Denmark either annexes Sweden or gets her to join the Unholy Unhistorical Alliance.

Why must the relations of all AI nations continuously improve? Grrr.

As for the Iriquois, it might be possible to give them just a tiny little amount of colonial dynamism and core provinces along the coast to spice things up a bit... Hmm.

Excuse my ramblings.

 

[Doomdark]

relations improve? Do they? I have seen relations systematically deteriorate despite gifts, alliances, and marriages. Is there some "toggle" in a file we do not know about that causes a "relation regression"?

It seems that relations slowly improve between most AI-controlled nations. This is especially true in vassal-overlord cases; perhaps due to gifts from the overlord. In the case of Denmark-Sweden this is especially annyoing.

 

[Doomdark]

on the D_S_R relations issue, may it be possible to include a relationship-worsening event upon Sweden's cancelling vassalage to Denmark?

Unfortunately, those events do not work.

 

[Doomdark]

Can the landlocked AI's be toned down to Naval tech spending?

It would be nice, but it is not possible to do. (Well, Paradox could fix it, but us poor scenario tweakers can't.)

 

[Doomdark]

Time to retire this thread...

IGC 2.3 final is now released and I will soon be gone on vacation. Thus, I hereby unstick this thread and start up another one for suggestions for the new version. I look forward to harvest your ideas when I get back.