Improving the Scandinavian experience by having Danish dynamic names - a suggestion

[Wagonlitz]

So @Trin Tragula suggested I made a thread suggesting dynamic province names. As far as I can see there are no Danish province names in game already.
Since this obviously is a huge task I will do it in several small bites; other people chiming in would be appreciated too. Given that the sources also give names in other language I will suggest those too.
The sources I will be using are the Atlas of Frederik V of Denmark. It is a huge world atlas with 3535 charts distributed over 55 volumes. Most of those charts are maps. Those are in many languages meaning that you can see the names used in those languages at the time the maps were made. Frederik V died 14.1.1766 and most maps are from the first half of the 1700s, but there are older ones too---some even much older. I will be naming that source FV.
http://images.kb.dk/fr5atlas/

The other source is Geographie til Ungdommens Brug, 5th edition, Christian Sommerfelt, Copenhagen, 1797. As seen it is by semi famous Christian Sommerfelt who was a really skilled geographer and many other things. Among other people the famous Carsten Niebuhr also helped Sommerfelt in getting the names of places. I will call that source CS.

Another source is Matthias Moth. Matthias Moth was one of the closest advisors to Christian V and he was also highly interested in knowledge. Around 1700 he made a giant dictionary covering the entirety of Danish as it was back then. No word was too obscene or obscure. It also includes Icelandic, Faroese, and Norwegian words.
He also had an encyclopedia be part of the dictionary (because why not). It's something like 60 tomes in total. His work has been digitised by the Danish Language and Literature Association here: http://mothsordbog.dk/



@Trin Tragula do you need province numbers too, or is mentioning their name enough?

Back in the day dashes weren't used in Danish and places where you would have a dash would have an = instead. I have kept using that, since it firstly is what CS uses and it is the authentic thing to do.

For CS some names have a previous name noted in parenthesis. I will note those too. A few times two names are mentioned; I will separate those by commas.
Here we go:
1775 Holstein -> Holsteen. CS
2348 Chios -> Scio (Chius). CS
382 Damascus -> Damâsk (Damascus). CS
378 Tarabulus -> Trábulos (Tripolis i Syrien). CS
1855 Sidon -> Seide (Sidon). CS
405 Tadmor -> Palmyra. CS
377 Aleppo -> Háleb, Aleppo, (Chalybon). CS
2313 Antioch -> Antâki (Antiochia). CS
331 Erzurum -> Ærzerûm (Arze). CS
418 Diyarbakir -> Diarbekr (Amid). CS
409 Hillah -> Helle. CS
410 Baghdad -> Bagdád. CS
408 Basra -> Básra. CS
385 Mecca -> Mékke. CS
384 Medina -> Medîne. CS
2329 Yanbu -> Jâmbo. CS
2331 Jeddah -> Dsjidda. CS
390 Sana'a -> Saná. CS
388 Aden -> Aden (Arabia emporium). CS
400 Muscat -> Maskát (Moscha). CS
1201 Zanzibar -> Zansjibar. CS
1205 Mogadishu -> Mokadischu. CS
2258 Cape Coast -> Cap Coast. CS
1177 Cape -> Got=Haabs=Forbierg. CS. Its capital should be Cap=Staden in case province capitals are dynamic too.

There is the question of the Danish colonies in India and Africa.
In India we had Trankebar and Frediriksnagôr. As far as I can see Trankebar lies within what is the Tanjore province in game. Hence Tanjore should be called Trankebar when Danish.
Frederiksnagôr is what is called Serampore these days. I think it lies in the province of Bengal Delta meaning that Bengal Delta should be called Frederiksnagôr when Danish.

2026 Tanjore -> Trankebar. CS
561 Bengal Delta -> Frederiksnagôr. CS

There also are the colonies in Africa. These all were placed on the Gold Coast and were Christiansborg, Fredensborg, Kongsteen, Prindsensteen, and Augustaborg. As far as I can see Prindsensteen is just inside Whydah. Of the others they all lie within Gold Coast. Christiansborg was the biggest and oldest, so it must give the name. So:

1139 Gold Coast -> Christiansborg. CS
1141 Whydah -> Prindsensteen. CS

If deemed desirable other West African coastal provinces (provinces without any Danish name) could be named after the other forts. While not historical it would give flavour---and those three unused fort names were used for West African possessions IRL so who knows if they would also have been used if the fort with that name was placed somewhere else on the West African coast.

That's it for now.


Addition on the 21st of Marts.

So I did another stint in finding dynamic names. Like before I only looked in CS this time.

Lets look at the British Isles. I haven't spent much time on Scotland, since I am not sure exactly how provinces change there with Mare Nostrum.

369 Orkey -> Ørkenøerne, Orkneys (Orcades). CS

As far as I have been able to see the only change to England is the addition of Devon.

236 London -> Middlsex. CS
233 Cornwall -> Kaarnwæll. CS
Devon -> Dewon=Shiire. CS (Ended up not getting in; should it ever be added then here is the Danish name for it.)
243 Lincolnshire -> Lincoln=Shiire. CS
237 Oxfordshire -> Oxford=Shiire. CS
239 Gloucestershire -> Gloster=Shiire. CS
1861 Derbyshire -> Derbe=Shiire. CS
247 Yorkshire -> York=Shiire. CS
249 Cumbria -> Cumberland. CS
244 Lancashire -> Pfalzgrevskabet Lænkæster, Lancashire. CS
242 Gwynedd -> Nord=Wæles. CS
241 Glamorganshire -> Syd=Wæles. CS
243 Wessex -> Westsex. CS

Then there is the question of the province of Marches (province 240). For obvious reasons that isn't directly referred to in CS. The direct translation would be Markerne. That could be used if the concept of the Welsch Marches is to be preserved. Otherwise it consists of 5 shires as far as I can see. Staffordshire, Shropshire, Herefordshire, Worcestershire, and Warwickshire. If the name is chosen to follow one of those shires, then here is the names given in CS.

Herefordshire -> Hereford=Shiire. CS
Shropshire -> Shrop=Shiire. CS
Staffordshire -> Stafford=Shiire. CS
Worcestershire -> Vorster=Shiire. CS
Warwickshire -> Warrik=Shiire. CS

Of those 5 shires Herefordshire is deemed so unimportant by CS that it doesn't get a detailed description, but just is mentioned in the tally of the shires of England.
If Markerne isn't used, I don't know which shire the name should be based on.




@Trin Tragula could would it be possible for you to give me a screenshot of Lithuania with province names visible? Otherwise I will have to wait until Mare Nostrum releases to do anything about Lithuania. Anyway there are a few things in the Baltics I am confident about not having changed.

35 Ösel -> Øsel. CS
37 Livland -> Lifland. CS
36 Reval -> Revalske Statholderskab. CS (This one is a bit icy. On one side Narva was part of Revalske Statholderskab; on the other side CS makes a point about Narva being unimportant compared to what is Reval in game. And just calling it Reval seems wrong too when there is an actual name for the province and the province did contain much more than just the city of Reval. So I think it can be defended to have the in game province of Reval called Revalske Statholderskab despite not including Narva.)



Now lets look a bit on Western Prussia:

255 Kalisz -> Gnesen, Gniesna. CS
43 Danzig -> Danzig. CS (just pointing out that it is Danzig and not Gdansk.)
2963 Notec -> Netzeland, Netz=Districtet. CS
254 Poznan -> Posen. CS
256 Plock -> Plozk. CS
1859 Chelmno -> Culm. CS
1939 Leczyca -> Lentschiza. CS
262 Krakow -> Krakov (Cracovia, Carodunum). CS
257 Warszawa -> Warschava, Varschau, (Varsaria). CS

I'm going to stop here for now.


Additions from the 12th of April.

So I got a little time this morning.

@Trin Tragula do I need to ping you every time I update or have you subscribed to the thread and if so do you then actively read it?



Well firstly there is a correction to the English names. When writing them Mare Nostrum hadn't yet released and I thought that the new province around Cornwall was Devon. Turned out to be Somerset.

I will leave the name for Devon in in case it ever is added.

4130 Somerset -> Sommerset. CS


On to the North then.

1979 Färöarna -> Færøerne. CS
17 Akershus -> Aggershuus, Christiania. CS
24 Agder -> Christiansand. CS
315 Finnmark -> Finmarken. CS
1 Stockholm -> Stokholm. CS
1985 Närke -> Nerike. CS
2 Östergötland -> Øster=Gøtland. CS
7 Västergötland -> Vester=Gøtland. CS
5 Värmland -> Værmeland. CS
6 Skåne -> Skaane. CS
1982 Blekinge -> Bleking. CS
3 Småland -> Smaaland. CS
16 Bohuslän -> Bahuslehn, Bohuslæn. CS (Does anybody know if this is a mutilation of the pre 1658 name?)


20 Trøndelag -> Trondheim. CS (I am a bit ambivalent on this, since while it was Trondheim in CS I am pretty sure it has been called Trøndelag in Danish at least until the loss of Skåneland. Do any of you have an idea here @Quaade @radiatoren?)

Don't have time for more now.



So the section on the old North mentions Trandheim and Trondelagen as the two equivalent names for Trøndelag back in the old North. As far as I remember lagen means law in Old Norse---i.e. Trondelagen being under the law of Tronde (whoever that is) (unless I am completely mistaken). An equivalent would be Danelagen.

Anyway it appears that Trondelagen was an archaic name in 1797 and Trondheim the then current one. Though when that changed I don't know.

I think having it as Trøndelag (or Trondelagen which appears more appropriate) when under Norway and Trondheim when under Denmark could make sense to show the change in naming convention. Though I don't know. It sure is a hard province name to decide on. Though if Trøndelag is used in Danish then I think it should be Trondelagen given that is how CS writes it. Though it is a good question if there actually was a vowel change in the name or CS wanted to write it in the old style with a miniscule e over the o instead of using an ø and the e then wasn't printed (he used the miniscule e version for some of the Swedish names for some bizarre reason). But given he has been dead in something like 200 years we obviously can't ask, so if he is used it should probably be Trondelagen with an o, since that was what he wrote.


Anyway lets continue with Scandinavia.

21 Hålogaland -> Nordlandene. CS (If somebody else is looking in CS too then this mentioned in the section about the Old North. By the way this should definitely be changed for Norwegian too. Whether it should be Nordlandene or Haalogaland (or possibly even Halogaland as in Old Norse) I don't know, but given å (the letter, not the sound) didn't exist in Norwegian until 1917, the letter å has no place in Norwegian names in game. The same goes for Danish names where å didn't exist as a letter until 1948.)
10 Jämtland -> Jæmtland. CS (Jämtland seems sketchy for the Norwegian name given Norway uses æ and not ä. @Sleepyhead wasn't there something about Jämtland being called something else in Norwegian?)
9 Hälsingland -> Hælsingeland. CS
11 Västerbotten-> Vesterboten. CS
27 Åbo -> Aabo= og Biørneborg=Lehn, Finland. CS
19 Österbotten -> Østerbotn, Uleaaborg Landshøvdingedømme. CS
31 Savolax -> Savolax, Kuopio. CS (With Kuopio only becoming noteworthy in the really late game, as CS also notes by saying it is a new town, I think keeping it as Savolax is the best of the two possibilities.)
1930 Åland -> Aaland. CS
4124 Karelia -> Karelen. CS

4123 Pirkanmaa. Now this one is a bit of a problem, since the area was part of Åbo and not in any way noteworthy given CS doesn't mention a thing about that part of the county. (Now I wonder how such an unimportant piece of land warranted a province...

)
Anyway due to it not being an independent administrative unit and being unimportant CS doesn't give any name. The Finnish name obviously is ruled out as a plausible name, since there is no way a Denmark having taken Finland would use Finnish names. The Swedish name is Birkaland which as far as I can see refers back to the Scandinavian word birk (to the Danes: it is the administrative unit, not the tree, we talk about here) which was a really old administrative unit independent of the shires. If I am correct that the etymology of Birkaland is land of the birks then the Danish name obviously would be Birkeland.
So lacking any sources on this except common knowledge about ancient administrative units I would propose Birkeland. And if that isn't used then using the Swedish Birkaland. While not correct it is much less wrong than using a Finnish name.

With regard to Lappland, Jokkmokk and especially Rovaniemi then I don't know. Lappland was divided into 6 chiefdoms when CS wrote (Åsele, Uleå, Piteå, Luleå, Torneå, and Kiemi); I think Kiemi is Kemi, but not certain. Using the names of these Lapp divisions (Aasele=Lapmark, Uleaa=Lapmark, Piteaa=Lapmark, Luleaa=Lapmark, Torneaa=Lapmark, Kiemi=Lapmark) for the three Lappland provinces (Lappland, Jokkmokk, Rovaniemi) would make sense, but I don't know which should be given what name.
Does anybody know this?
Rovaniemi might very well be Kiemi=Lapmark though, since CS mentions this Lapp division to be administered together with Österbotten. But I don't know.

Speaking of the Lapps then CS is a goldmine of statements which are funny due to being horribly un PC these days. This is written under Lappland: "Indbyggerne bekiende sig til den Christelige Religion, ere og forsynede med Kirker og Præster, men ere dog ikke frie for Levninger af grov Overtroe."

45 Lübeck -> Lybek, Lübeck. CS
44 Hamburg -> Hamborg. CS writes Hamburg, but that most likely is him using the German name due to the strong presence German had i the 1700s. As can be seen from this excert from the list of consumption for Tycho Brahe's wedding in 1503 it was called Hamborg 500 years ago just as it is today. The source is a site on Danish history run by Aarhus University.
"Item, 2. Tønner Hamborg Øll, Tønnen VI. Marck. "

296 Kaluga -> Kolugiske Statholderskab. CS
295 Moskva -> Moscau, Moskva. CS
294 Tver -> Tveerske Statholderskab. CS
308 Yaroslavl -> Jaroslavlske Statholderskab. CS
310 Novgorod -> Novgorodiske Statholderskab. CS
314 Vologda -> Vologda Statholderskab. CS
306 Nizhny Novgorod -> Nischgorodske Statholderskab, Nischnei=Novgorodske Statholderskab. CS





Additions on November 10th 2016:

4149 Kolding -> Koldinghus.
4141 Ditmarschen -> Ditmersken; alternatively Dytmersken.

Arguments found in this post.

 

[Trin Tragula]

@Trin Tragula do I need to ping you every time I update or have you subscribed to the thread and if so do you then actively read it?

Up to you. I read the suggestions forum every day (if not before then on the train from work) looking for stuff related to me so if you just post I'll likely see it (especially with the pds icon and all). I don't generally subscribe to threads though so if you really want to be sure then keep tagging me

EDIT:
But if you don't mind doing it adding province numbers would be helpful. Not necessary but something that saves time.

 

[radiatoren]

Seems to me Trondhjem or Trondheim would be the city. The administrative unit today is called Sør-Trøndelag, but amtet from 1662 was called Trondhjem. Trøndelag is a very old area-name as far as I can gather. But it may be even older to call it Trøndeheim.

So it seems Trøndelag is norse in nature and corresponds to the area before Denmark owned it, Trondhjem is a danish name and Trondheim is a norwegian name. What is area and what is city must be a question of preferences.

Personally I like the norse naming, but Trondhjem seems very fitting, if not more, given the norse Trøndeheim.

That is all gathered from Wikis. While wikis are generally more populistic in nature and less exact, they can give some good input for making decissions.

 

[Wagonlitz]

I´m also more sure of Trøndelag in general speaking, but using Trondheim could be as a respect to Norwegian crown. So using Trøndelag when Denmark de facto owns the province (annexing) would be better in my opinion.

I´m on my way to meeting, hence the short reply

Why do you think that Trondheim for Norway and Trøndelag for Denmark makes the most sense?

Up to you. I read the suggestions forum every day (if not before then on the train from work) looking for stuff related to me so if you just post I'll likely see it (especially with the pds icon and all). I don't generally subscribe to threads though so if you really want to be sure then keep tagging me

EDIT:
But if you don't mind doing it adding province numbers would be helpful. Not necessary but something that saves time.

I will keep tagging you then. I was just not sure if it annoyed you to be tagged every time I add more names.

Also is there a console command to make the province numbers visible in game or do I need to use the game files?

Seems to me Trondhjem or Trondheim would be the city. The administrative unit today is called Sør-Trøndelag, but amtet from 1662 was called Trondhjem. Trøndelag is a very old area-name as far as I can gather. But it may be even older to call it Trøndeheim.

So it seems Trøndelag is norse in nature and corresponds to the area before Denmark owned it, Trondhjem is a danish name and Trondheim is a norwegian name. What is area and what is city must be a question of preferences.

Personally I like the norse naming, but Trondhjem seems very fitting, if not more, given the norse Trøndeheim.

That is all gathered from Wikis. While wikis are generally more populistic in nature and less exact, they can give some good input for making decissions.

CS actually doesn't mentioned the name Trøndelag at all under Norway (might mention it under the old North; haven't checked that). And it is Trondhiem Stift as the main area with several counties under it---among others Trondhiem. So as far as I can see Trondhiem was the sole name in Danish. Though I just remembered that CS has a section on the old North (because obviously a geography book needs that...) and that includes several really really old names (many of which I have used for a personal mod for CKII). I will look there to see what it says about Trøndelag when I get time to look in CS again later today.

 

[Trin Tragula]

No I don't get annoyed from being tagged at all

Also is there a console command to make the province numbers visible in game or do I need to use the game files?

debug_mode should work for that

 

[Wagonlitz]

No I don't get annoyed from being tagged at all



debug_mode should work for that

Will try using debug_mode later.
By the way do you know how to successfully window the game (would save me of tabbing out all the time). I have tried the windowed command, but nothing happens

 

[Trin Tragula]

You could try doing it directly in the settings.txt in your documents folder. If you can't do it via the in game options/settings that's probably a bug however.

 

[Quaade]

Why do you think that Trondheim for Norway and Trøndelag for Denmark makes the most sense?

Just an opinion, did some search on both names in both danish and norwegian and seems both are used... So I figured both could be used and thought that would be the most logical

Else I can make a search in the game file of all the provinces later and list their numbers or send them to you so you can edit them in?

 

[Wagonlitz]

You could try doing it directly in the settings.txt in your documents folder. If you can't do it via the in game options/settings that's probably a bug however.

Thanks. Both settings and the options worked. Though scrolling became really annoying and the mouse was just annoying, so I ended turning it off again.

Will add the province numbers to all the names in the OP.

Just an opinion, did some search on both names in both danish and norwegian and seems both are used... So I figured both could be used and thought that would be the most logical

Well I don't know for sure as is clear from the below. Though I find it peculiar to have Norwegian be the one to use Trondhiem.

Else I can make a search in the game file of all the provinces later and list their numbers or send them to you so you can edit them in?

No need to. Debug works really well. And anyway I know where the game files are too.




@Trin Tragula is this a fine way to write the province numbers?



So the section on the old North mentions Trandheim and Trondelagen as the two equivalent names for Trøndelag back in the old North. As far as I remember lagen means law in Old Norse---i.e. Trondelagen being under the law of Tronde (whoever that is) (unless I am completely mistaken). An equivalent would be Danelagen.

Anyway it appears that Trondelagen was an archaic name in 1797 and Trondheim the then current one. Though when that changed I don't know.

I think having it as Trøndelag (or Trondelagen which appears more appropriate) when under Norway and Trondheim when under Denmark could make sense to show the change in naming convention. Though I don't know. It sure is a hard province name to decide on. Though if Trøndelag is used in Danish then I think it should be Trondelagen given that is how CS writes it. Though it is a good question if there actually was a vowel change in the name or CS wanted to write it in the old style with a miniscule e over the o instead of using an ø and the e then wasn't printed (he used the miniscule e version for some of the Swedish names for some bizarre reason). But given he has been dead in something like 200 years we obviously can't ask, so if he is used it should probably be Trondelagen with an o, since that was what he wrote.


Anyway lets continue with Scandinavia.

21 Hålogaland -> Nordlandene. CS (If somebody else is looking in CS too then this mentioned in the section about the Old North. By the way this should definitely be changed for Norwegian too. Whether it should be Nordlandene or Haalogaland (or possibly even Halogaland as in Old Norse) I don't know, but given å (the letter, not the sound) didn't exist in Norwegian until 1917, the letter å has no place in Norwegian names in game. The same goes for Danish names where å didn't exist as a letter until 1948.)
10 Jämtland -> Jæmtland. CS (Jämtland seems sketchy for the Norwegian name given Norway uses æ and not ä. @Sleepyhead wasn't there something about Jämtland being called something else in Norwegian?)
9 Hälsingland -> Hælsingeland. CS
11 Västerbotten-> Vesterboten. CS
27 Åbo -> Aabo= og Biørneborg=Lehn, Finland. CS
19 Österbotten -> Østerbotn, Uleaaborg Landshøvdingedømme. CS
31 Savolax -> Savolax, Kuopio. CS (With Kuopio only becoming noteworthy in the really late game, as CS also notes by saying it is a new town, I think keeping it as Savolax is the best of the two possibilities.)
1930 Åland -> Aaland. CS
4124 Karelia -> Karelen. CS

4123 Pirkanmaa. Now this one is a bit of a problem, since the area was part of Åbo and not in any way noteworthy given CS doesn't mention a thing about that part of the county. (Now I wonder how such an unimportant piece of land warranted a province...

)
Anyway due to it not being an independent administrative unit and being unimportant CS doesn't give any name. The Finnish name obviously is ruled out as a plausible name, since there is no way a Denmark having taken Finland would use Finnish names. The Swedish name is Birkaland which as far as I can see refers back to the Scandinavian word birk (to the Danes: it is the administrative unit, not the tree, we talk about here) which was a really old administrative unit independent of the shires. If I am correct that the etymology of Birkaland is land of the birks then the Danish name obviously would be Birkeland.
So lacking any sources on this except common knowledge about ancient administrative units I would propose Birkeland. And if that isn't used then using the Swedish Birkaland. While not correct it is much less wrong than using a Finnish name.

With regard to Lappland, Jokkmokk and especially Rovaniemi then I don't know. Lappland was divided into 6 chiefdoms when CS wrote (Åsele, Uleå, Piteå, Luleå, Torneå, and Kiemi); I think Kiemi is Kemi, but not certain. Using the names of these Lapp divisions (Aasele=Lapmark, Uleaa=Lapmark, Piteaa=Lapmark, Luleaa=Lapmark, Torneaa=Lapmark, Kiemi=Lapmark) for the three Lappland provinces (Lappland, Jokkmokk, Rovaniemi) would make sense, but I don't know which should be given what name.
Does anybody know this?
Rovaniemi might very well be Kiemi=Lapmark though, since CS mentions this Lapp division to be administered together with Österbotten. But I don't know.

Speaking of the Lapps then CS is a goldmine of statements which are funny due to being horribly un PC these days. This is written under Lappland: "Indbyggerne bekiende sig til den Christelige Religion, ere og forsynede med Kirker og Præster, men ere dog ikke frie for Levninger af grov Overtroe."

45 Lübeck -> Lybek, Lübeck. CS
44 Hamburg -> Hamborg. CS writes Hamburg, but that most likely is him using the German name due to the strong presence German had i the 1700s. As can be seen from this excert from the list of consumption for Tycho Brahe's wedding in 1503 it was called Hamborg 500 years ago just as it is today. The source is a site on Danish history run by Aarhus University.
"Item, 2. Tønner Hamborg Øll, Tønnen VI. Marck. "

296 Kaluga -> Kolugiske Statholderskab. CS
295 Moskva -> Moscau, Moskva. CS
294 Tver -> Tveerske Statholderskab. CS
308 Yaroslavl -> Jaroslavlske Statholderskab. CS
310 Novgorod -> Novgorodiske Statholderskab. CS
314 Vologda -> Vologda Statholderskab. CS
306 Nizhny Novgorod -> Nischgorodske Statholderskab, Nischnei=Novgorodske Statholderskab. CS

 

[Wagonlitz]

I should have got province numbers for all the suggested name changes now. Hopefully I didn't make any typos.

Also noticed that apparently Wessex has been renamed to Hampshire.
The Danish name for Hampshire is Hæmp=Shiire according to CS. Though not sure I would exchange it, since the province fits better with Wessex than with Hampshire. So I would keep the Danish name for that province as Westsex.

 

[Sleepyhead]

21 Hålogaland -> Nordlandene. CS (If somebody else is looking in CS too then this mentioned in the section about the Old North. By the way this should definitely be changed for Norwegian too. Whether it should be Nordlandene or Haalogaland (or possibly even Halogaland as in Old Norse) I don't know, but given å (the letter, not the sound) didn't exist in Norwegian until 1917, the letter å has no place in Norwegian names in game. The same goes for Danish names where å didn't exist as a letter until 1948.)
10 Jämtland -> Jæmtland. CS (Jämtland seems sketchy for the Norwegian name given Norway uses æ and not ä. @Sleepyhead wasn't there something about Jämtland being called something else in Norwegian?)
9 Hälsingland -> Hælsingeland. CS
11 Västerbotten-> Vesterboten. CS
27 Åbo -> Aabo= og Biørneborg=Lehn, Finland. CS
19 Österbotten -> Østerbotn, Uleaaborg Landshøvdingedømme. CS
31 Savolax -> Savolax, Kuopio. CS (With Kuopio only becoming noteworthy in the really late game, as CS also notes by saying it is a new town, I think keeping it as Savolax is the best of the two possibilities.)
1930 Åland -> Aaland. CS
4124 Karelia -> Karelen. CS

It'd be Jemtland and Helsingland in Danish and Norwegian (bm), and Swedish too (pre 20th century). Ä in Swedish placenames is a very recent alteration, which is why Helsingland and Helsingborg got switched into Hälsingland and Hälsingborg, unlike Helsingør and Helsingfors (Helsinki). In the case of Helsingborg the residents protested and kept the historical Swedish spelling with E.

 

[Wagonlitz]

It'd be Jemtland and Helsingland in Danish and Norwegian (bm), and Swedish too (pre 20th century). Ä in Swedish placenames is a very recent alteration, which is why Helsingland and Helsingborg got switched into Hälsingland and Hälsingborg, unlike Helsingør and Helsingfors (Helsinki). In the case of Helsingborg the residents protested and kept the historical Swedish spelling with E.

Interesting. Do you have a source for Jemtland and Helsingeland being with an e in Danish in the game period (besides being from Jemtland)?
Because Sommerfelt most certainly uses an æ as seen below. Sure to some degree he uses Swedish names (e.g. Landskrona which was Landskrone when it was Danish as far as I am aware), but that wouldn't explain the æ.

By the way does Helsingør, Helsingland, Helsingborg, and Helsingfors have the same etymology for the Helsing part?

 

[Sleepyhead]

Here's a Norwegian source: http://runeberg.org/haandlex/1/0920.html

Here's some Danish/Norwegian ones:

http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=11917
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=11993
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=12051
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=11928
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=10297
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=13423

From the first one:

Wi Erik med gudz nade Danmarks Sverikis Norgis Ven-
dis ok Gotis koningh ok Hertugh i Pomerin Helse idher war
elskelighe almwe som byggia ok boo i Jempteland kerlika med
gud ok war nadhe ok kungøre idher ath wi haffwe hørth idher
torff ok ærendhe..​

By the way does Helsingør, Helsingland, Helsingborg, and Helsingfors have the same etymology for the Helsing part?

Most likely yes. All from Hals (throat).

 

[perhje]

Just an opinion, did some search on both names in both danish and norwegian and seems both are used... So I figured both could be used and thought that would be the most logical

Else I can make a search in the game file of all the provinces later and list their numbers or send them to you so you can edit them in?

Trondheim is the biggest(by far) city in Trøndelag while Trøndelag is the region. Before the reformation/integration of Norway(1536) the city was called Nidaros, but the danish king was eager to cut the bonds to the Pope for the norwegians(Nidaros was the name of the archbishopric) and thus made it use Trondhjem which was another name that ironically was derived from something latin(heard it on local radio, but don't know the details so don't hang me).

If something, the city should be named Nidaros under the norwegians and Trondhjem under the danish.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Here's a Norwegian source: http://runeberg.org/haandlex/1/0920.html

Here's some Danish/Norwegian ones:

http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=11917
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=11993
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=12051
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=11928
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=10297
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=13423

From the first one:

Wi Erik med gudz nade Danmarks Sverikis Norgis Ven-
dis ok Gotis koningh ok Hertugh i Pomerin Helse idher war
elskelighe almwe som byggia ok boo i Jempteland kerlika med
gud ok war nadhe ok kungøre idher ath wi haffwe hørth idher
torff ok ærendhe..

Interesting.
The Runeberg one is from the 1880s though so outside the time frame.

Of the others then the 4th doesn't mention Jemtland.

The 2 first from 1420 and 1471 calls it Jempteland, the 2 next from 1488 and 1531 calls it Jemteland, and the last one from 1558 calls it Jemtheland. The 1488 one also calls it Jemtalandh, but given spelling wasn't standardised back then that is no surprise. So it appears there is some evolution in the name with it shedding the p as that doesn't appear just to be spelling differences.
The second e is shed later too apparently.

So now the question is whether to go with Jæmtland as it was called in the late 1700s according to CS (5th edition is from 1797 as mentioned; 1st edition was from something like 1776).
Or if we should go with one of the previous versions. With that I would say that Jemteland seems better than Jempteland, since the p appears to have disappeared in the late 1400s. Though such a small sample we can't be sure. I wouldn't use Jemtalandh or Jemtheland, but they are possibilities sure.
What do you say @Quaade and @radiatoren?
Or you Sleepy?

Trondheim is the biggest(by far) city in Trøndelag while Trøndelag is the region.

Provinces aren't always named for their biggest city though. Perhaps I should check what is used in the treaty of Roskilde.

which was another name that ironically was derived from something latin

Nidaros isn't Latin. Or the os part at least isn't. That is an old Norse word meaning mouth of. Aros uses it too, where as far as I remember the ar is what evolved into the Danish å (is it also å in Norwegian?) I.e. a small stream. So Aros means mouth of the stream---Aros is the original name of Århus.
I seem to remember that Nidar is Norse too, but not sure on that.

 

[Wagonlitz]

If something, the city should be named Nidaros under the norwegians and Trondhjem under the danish.

Forgot to comment on this: Wouldn't the Norwegian king have been likely to change it too if Norway had stayed independent and still reformed?
Though I wouldn't be against using Nidaros under Norway. Though as mentioned many provinces aren't named after cities. And most Scandinavian provinces are named for the region they cover.

 

[Quaade]

Trondheim is the biggest(by far) city in Trøndelag while Trøndelag is the region. Before the reformation/integration of Norway(1536) the city was called Nidaros, but the danish king was eager to cut the bonds to the Pope for the norwegians(Nidaros was the name of the archbishopric) and thus made it use Trondhjem which was another name that ironically was derived from something latin(heard it on local radio, but don't know the details so don't hang me).

Interesting, found Nidaros odd aswell... It´s named like that in CK2 and it kept popping up in my searches

So now the question is whether to go with Jæmtland as it was called in the late 1700s according to CS (5th edition is from 1797 as mentioned; 1st edition was from something like 1776).
Or if we should go with one of the previous versions. With that I would say that Jemteland seems better than Jempteland, since the p appears to have disappeared in the late 1400s. Though such a small sample we can't be sure. I wouldn't use Jemtalandh or Jemtheland, but they are possibilities sure.

Jæmtland sounds more danish ;-) but I´m actually inclined toward Jemteland

And what a cool page you uploaded!

 

[Wagonlitz]

Interesting, found Nidaros odd aswell... It´s named like that in CK2 and it kept popping up in my searches

Why do you find Nidaros odd? It is a perfectly normal name. I actually looked up the name now. Wiki confirmes that I was right that the os is the old Norse os; and the Nid comes from the Nid river. Now the ar I don't know (and wiki doesn't mention anything), but I would wager that it means å just like the Ar in Aros.

Jæmtland sounds more danish ;-) but I´m actually inclined toward Jemteland

Are you sure that liking Jæmtland isn't due to Swedish influence? Though if with an e I naturally make it an æ sounding e. So in doubt on æ or e. But I agree that Jemteland looks better.

And what a cool page you uploaded!

You mean the page from CS? If so then yes it really is a nice book. Although it doesn't really differ from your typical old book. I nevertheless was really happy when my grandfather a few years back decided to give it to me (I have really liked reading in it since I was a child).
And it is an excellent reference for Danish period accurate names, since it was used to teach students in the Latin School (Latinskolen aka den Sorte Skole); though granted it is really late in the game period, but it beats modern names by a mile.

And due to the mentality back then you can find all kinds of statements that if uttered today would wreck your life; and those statements are made as if it was the most natural thing in the world to say. (That is one of the reasons I really like it.)
Did you see the quote about Lapps a few pages back?
There also is a statement under South America about how the wilds are the natives who aren't yet under the yoke of the Europeans... If you want I can try and find some funny quotes later.
And as mentioned it has a section on the ancient North... And obviously it starts with Denmark (including the Danish, German principalities), then Norway including the Atlantic isles, then Sweden, and then the ancient North. In total treating the North fills the first 61 pages---with the book (including index) only being a little under 500 pages...

 

[Trin Tragula]

Update:
X Statssälskap (but in danish) won't be added like that to the game. I'm shortening them to just the city name (so just Nischgorod I guess).
Also the current naming in the north consciously avoids using the Lappmark names (mostly because the Lappmarks should include parts of what we have in coastal provinces instead) and so I won't use those for Danish names either.

 

[radiatoren]

Trondheim is the biggest(by far) city in Trøndelag while Trøndelag is the region. Before the reformation/integration of Norway(1536) the city was called Nidaros, but the danish king was eager to cut the bonds to the Pope for the norwegians(Nidaros was the name of the archbishopric) and thus made it use Trondhjem which was another name that ironically was derived from something latin(heard it on local radio, but don't know the details so don't hang me).

If something, the city should be named Nidaros under the norwegians and Trondhjem under the danish.

As far as I can find Trondhjem was used as far back as 1170 while Nidaros was likely used further back (seems several other spellings were used). So it is slightly more difficult to specifically point out. When that is said, I agree that Trondhjem for danish and Nidaros for norwegean is by far the most logical convention. As far as the region, Trøndelag seems like the obvious choice. Trønderne seems like a denomination for a plural of Tronde. But the area has been called Trondheim in some of the 1600+ people countings I have seen.

Thus a proposed convention could be:
City: NO: Nidaros, DK: Trondhjem
Region: NO: Trøndelag. DK: Trondheim

 

[Wagonlitz]

X Statssälskap (but in danish) won't be added like that to the game. I'm shortening them to just the city name (so just Nischgorod I guess).

A quite reasonable decision; though would have been funny to have had the entire name included. And yes removing the ske should do it most of the time. Though there are a couple places where there are other changes. I should probably edit the names to the city names instead of the Statsholderskab version.

Also the current naming in the north consciously avoids using the Lappmark names (mostly because the Lappmarks should include parts of what we have in coastal provinces instead) and so I won't use those for Danish names either.

Again a reasonable decision, since all the towns the Lapmarker are named after lies on the coast (though doesn't Rovaneimi cover part of the coast?).
Though then I have no idea for Jokkmokk or Rovaniemi.

Region: NO: Trøndelag. DK: Trondheim

You mean area right?
And under no circumstance should it be Trondheim in Danish. Trondheim is a Norweginisation and has never been the name in Danish. Though the question is if the area shouldn't be Trøndelag in Danish too.
Anyway I am pretty sure you have have areas change name during the game so that part of the discussion is moot.