Is this game ever going to be updated?

[makslaskabata2]

Seems it take longer as expected, esp. when the Devs work with the Unity-Game-Engine. If you all did not know what I mean is following: All Dev-Studios [dosen´t matter you are small, medium or big] and Publishers [the same] which work with Unity have an big Problem, when the Unity-Game-Engine-Company can get enforce their demands.

And that´s not only have an effect on the Dev-Studios / Publishers, it have an Effect to Modders and esp. for us Gamers too. The last ones have to pay more for already existing Games which get programmed with Unity and for Projects which are in WIP incl. the DLCs which comes for that.

And my fear for Empires of Sin get confirmed. It get programmed with Unity. Either the Devs try to switch to an other Game-Engine or hold back the Updates / DLCs until an friendly solution with the Unity-Game-Engine-Company get found.

Unity's new addition is a blessing for us in terms of getting a response, because Romero cannot financially support dragging a dead cow around every corner, while also having to pay for it now. Either they will just take down the game entirely (they're already deleting the discord channels of it) or put out a response.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

The Discord-Channels deletions could have other Reasons, about the redesign of the Rules there incl. code of conduct. Some People there didn´t use their Account over Monthes, Years, Decades and others blamed a Company or other Members.

That Romero closes their Accounts could have something to do with the new Rules incl. Code of Conduct (like that the blaming there take overhand) to make that Decission nessecarry.

And if you look in the Steam-Shop-Page to the Empire of Sin-Game and the DLCs, you see that they all are still buyable and orderable. If Romero would close the Game-Production on that, Paradox would know it first and then it wouldn´t be on Steam buyable / and the 2nd big DLC orderable anymore.

 

[Blaeys]

Sadly not but I've not forgotten this thread nor y'all and when there's news to share, unless someone beats me to it, I'll do so.

What bothers me most - now - is that Paradox is actually going to be everywhere promoting Millennia like it is the greatest thing to ever hit strategy gaming while they still owe us something we bought from them 3 years ago - and that they continue to refuse to even acknowledge exists outside of a few deflections on this forum.

Also going to bring up this point again - at least they could let us know if anyone is actively working on the content somewhere. The silence is insulting - as it stands now, they could keep doing what they are doing now for the next 20 years and we would zero recourse (no refund possible because of the way it was sold on Steam).

 

[Colonel Bogey]

What bothers me most - now - is that Paradox is actually going to be everywhere promoting Millennia like it is the greatest thing to ever hit strategy gaming while they still owe us something we bought from them 3 years ago - and that they continue to refuse to even acknowledge exists outside of a few deflections on this forum.

Also going to bring up this point again - at least they could let us know if anyone is actively working on the content somewhere. The silence is insulting - as it stands now, they could keep doing what they are doing now for the next 20 years and we would zero recourse (no refund possible because of the way it was sold on Steam).

Millennia looks interesting (like a more complex Civ?) but I won’t be pre-ordering if I bother at all. I’ll wait for the reviews.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

99% of us don´t have the nerve to discuss such an Child-Garden-Question. Fact is that if Romero wouldn´t bring in more Content / Features etc. for Empire of Sin for the PC and the other Platform, then it would be not in Steam and other similar Platforms buyable as well as orderable anymore.

Now to the Reasons, why some Games are growing slower and others faster:

1. We don´t know where the Romeo-Dev-Studio have it´s Main-Office and evtl. outsourced Offices. It could be in the Ukraine (like Frogware with the Sherlock Holmes Games) or in an Country, which is in Danger about the Situation in East-Europe. Many Development-Studios in Europe have their Offices there [Hungary, Ukraine, Slowakia, Tshech etc.).

2. The longer under the hood cooking Unity-Crises for all Development-Studios incl. Publishers and End-Users (us Gamers). The Dev-Studios all over the World are overthinking to use the Unity-Engine and there Romero Studios, HBS, the City Skilines Devs etc. from the Paradox-Partner-Studios are concerned too. In that Case it´s no surprisse if f. e. the Terra-Invicta-Developers, Empire of Sins-Developers and many others which work with Unity hold on the Programming of an Base-Game, DLC, Patches, Base-Game-Upgrades etc.

3. And esp. if the slow thinkers don´t have grasped it: We End-Users are to 100% concerned (Unity will ignore our privacy protection and send the Company what Games we have installed, which get done with Unity) as well as we have to pay the special Fees (means Products get expensive, which belongs all Games and DLCs which get done with Unity).

Esp. the Points 2 and 3 the Developers / Publishers don´t wanna do to us End-Users. In that special Cases (all 3 Points) it´s fully normal that we Gamers don´t get new Content / Features / Changes / Upgrades. The worst thing is: If you begunn an Project with an Game-Design-Engine and did some DLCs for it already, it´s not easy to change to an other Game-Design-Engine. Either you have big Quality-Losses or you have to Reduce drastically already implemeted Features / Contents etc.

I suggest about the ongoing big Crises the last 4 Years, that we have to bring a lot of patience until the Game-Engine-Crises with Unity get solved or you all have to pay 20 or 25% more for Base-Games, DLCs and similar which get done with Unity or Refited older Open-Source-Game-Engines.

 

[Blaeys]

99% of us don´t have the nerve to discuss such an Child-Garden-Question. Fact is that if Romero wouldn´t bring in more Content / Features etc. for Empire of Sin for the PC and the other Platform, then it would be not in Steam and other similar Platforms buyable as well as orderable anymore.

Now to the Reasons, why some Games are growing slower and others faster:

1. We don´t know where the Romeo-Dev-Studio have it´s Main-Office and evtl. outsourced Offices. It could be in the Ukraine (like Frogware with the Sherlock Holmes Games) or in an Country, which is in Danger about the Situation in East-Europe. Many Development-Studios in Europe have their Offices there [Hungary, Ukraine, Slowakia, Tshech etc.).

2. The longer under the hood cooking Unity-Crises for all Development-Studios incl. Publishers and End-Users (us Gamers). The Dev-Studios all over the World are overthinking to use the Unity-Engine and there Romero Studios, HBS, the City Skilines Devs etc. from the Paradox-Partner-Studios are concerned too. In that Case it´s no surprisse if f. e. the Terra-Invicta-Developers, Empire of Sins-Developers and many others which work with Unity hold on the Programming of an Base-Game, DLC, Patches, Base-Game-Upgrades etc.

3. And esp. if the slow thinkers don´t have grasped it: We End-Users are to 100% concerned (Unity will ignore our privacy protection and send the Company what Games we have installed, which get done with Unity) as well as we have to pay the special Fees (means Products get expensive, which belongs all Games and DLCs which get done with Unity).

Esp. the Points 2 and 3 the Developers / Publishers don´t wanna do to us End-Users. In that special Cases (all 3 Points) it´s fully normal that we Gamers don´t get new Content / Features / Changes / Upgrades. The worst thing is: If you begunn an Project with an Game-Design-Engine and did some DLCs for it already, it´s not easy to change to an other Game-Design-Engine. Either you have big Quality-Losses or you have to Reduce drastically already implemeted Features / Contents etc.

I suggest about the ongoing big Crises the last 4 Years, that we have to bring a lot of patience until the Game-Engine-Crises with Unity get solved or you all have to pay 20 or 25% more for Base-Games, DLCs and similar which get done with Unity or Refited older Open-Source-Game-Engines.

This issue has nothing to do with Unity. Nearly a year before that was even a thing, Romero Games said (and continue to say) that they 100% committed to another project and had essentially abandoned Empire of Sin - even though they took our money for the second DLC.

Paradox has been a tiny bit better in communication, but still isnt saying anything beyond "you have to wait" (neglecting to tell us how long we have to wait of course - could be 20 years -or explain how the DLC will be made if the developer has abandoned it).

At no point was this ever connected to the Unity issue (no matter how bad that is) - and it wouldnt matter anyway. The developer and the publisher made a commitment - and they took our money. It is a very simple equation - customer gives you money, you give them the product or a refund, both of which Paradox is unwilling to do.

 

[Frank_Costello]

The Romeros kicked this game to the curb and literally started throwing game testers and dedicated players off their Discord to cover their retreat before they took the money and ran. The individuals who worked directly for them and through Paradox were both kind of speechless at the time because it took them by surprise as well.

The Romeros then tried to get a kickstarter for another game but, SURPRISE!, no one trusted them. And seemingly they are having trouble hiring because, again, who wants to trust someone so untrustworthy? If they ever write another line of code for this game I will be shocked SHOCKED! they bothered to live up to their agreement.

As for Paradox, I have a lot of respect for @TinyWiking standing up and taking the heat because I don't think our friends in Sweden are responsible for this. Point the finger at Brenda directly, that's where the blame goes.

 

[Colonel Bogey]

No idea why people continue to point the finger at Romero Games. The only entity that can pull a game is the publisher. As I’ve said previously Romero ‘running off with the cash’ would be a breach of contract. As would them talking about it as they’ll have a non disclosure clause.
The issue is firmly at Paradox’s door. They don’t have non disclosure clauses, they’re just unwilling to communicate about it.

 

[Frank_Costello]

No idea why people continue to point the finger at Romero Games. The only entity that can pull a game is the publisher. As I’ve said previously Romero ‘running off with the cash’ would be a breach of contract. As would them talking about it as they’ll have a non disclosure clause.
The issue is firmly at Paradox’s door. They don’t have non disclosure clauses, they’re just unwilling to communicate about it.

I was there and watched the retreat and talked to the individuals involved.

I stand by my version.

 

[Skylax]

In Steam there is no new Information too. Only that you can Pre-Purchase the Expension-Pack 2 or if you have the Season-Pass that it´s already pre-buyed for the Game.

Seems it take longer as expected, esp. when the Devs work with the Unity-Game-Engine. If you all did not know what I mean is following: All Dev-Studios [dosen´t matter you are small, medium or big] and Publishers [the same] which work with Unity have an big Problem, when the Unity-Game-Engine-Company can get enforce their demands.

And that´s not only have an effect on the Dev-Studios / Publishers, it have an Effect to Modders and esp. for us Gamers too. The last ones have to pay more for already existing Games which get programmed with Unity and for Projects which are in WIP incl. the DLCs which comes for that.

And my fear for Empires of Sin get confirmed. It get programmed with Unity. Either the Devs try to switch to an other Game-Engine or hold back the Updates / DLCs until an friendly solution with the Unity-Game-Engine-Company get found.

Unity has reverted their plan and I can assure you that this absolutely hasn't had any influence on the game not being worked on over the last 2 years. It's weird to bring Unity in here at all.

Sadly not but I've not forgotten this thread nor y'all and when there's news to share, unless someone beats me to it, I'll do so.

I see you are doing your job as customer support here. I hope you don't mind me see this as stalling, though.

That Romero closes their Accounts could have something to do with the new Rules incl. Code of Conduct (like that the blaming there take overhand) to make that Decission nessecarry.

No, they even said that they are working on three (!) other projects. One of them being an AAA FPS game. They have roughly 40 employees. I can assure you, they are not working on Empire of Sin anymore.

99% of us don´t have the nerve to discuss such an Child-Garden-Question. Fact is that if Romero wouldn´t bring in more Content / Features etc. for Empire of Sin for the PC and the other Platform, then it would be not in Steam and other similar Platforms buyable as well as orderable anymore.

Sweet summer child. PDX has sold season passes and that is the problem. The game has been dead for 2 years now, they simply don't want to refund people who bought the version including 2 DLC. This would get them in trouble with Steam, Epic, Sony and Microsoft. So they are pretending to be working on it until they are not legally obliged anymore to deliver on their promise. If they had taken the 2nd DLC out of the stores, they would publicly admit that the game is dead prompting refund requests and hussle with Steam, Epic, Sony and MS.

I was there and watched the retreat and talked to the individuals involved.

I stand by my version.

Both messed up. Romero gave up the development, which probably is a breach of contract with PDX (at least I hope the publishing contract covers this). PDX is responsible for milking the dead cow, heck, you can even still buy the 2nd DLC which we know will never see the light of the day. This is scam by PDX. I am sure that lawyers are working out settlements behind closed doors as to who will have to pay which fines and who will have to refund customers. The fact that PDX has been silent on the issue for 2 years now makes me think that they want people to forget that the game even existed to limit the amount of people requesting a refund.

This saga has been incredibly disheartening. I will never buy another product by Romero again and I will definitely make sure to assess if I ever want to support PDX by buying DLCs that I don't really need in the future. HoI, EU4, CK3 are great games, no question. But I was here when PDX cared about their customers opinion. I remember that HoI3 got "Their finest hour" even though podcat and Johan said that the effort to make it would not outweigh the financial benefit as HoI3 suffered from great design and coding flaws. This was PDX to me, giving something to the community (they sold the product, but I believe them that is was not financially feasible to produce it rather than starting work on HoI 4 sooner). Now, PDX is different. Dropping games when the success/playerbase and quality are disappointing is fine. But keeping your customers in the dark about your intentions is whack.

 

[WolfClaw]

Is the dlc scam also part of the game?

 

[Frank_Costello]

Is the dlc scam also part of the game?

What happened was the first DLC was based on the legendary ‘Accountant for the Mob’ Meyer Lansky. Lansky and Ben Siegel formed the ‘Bugs and Meyer Gang’, later known as ‘Murder, Inc’ as the enforcement arm of the crime syndicate’s ‘Commission’.

Problem. The gaming company was based in Ireland for tax reasons. Meyer Lansky’s name is trademarked in the EU (a truly terrible precedent he is a historical figure) by a whiskey bottler and a heavy lawsuit shut that idea down. Meyer was rebranded as Maxim Zelnik.

Thereafter all the wind was sucked from their sails. They were never the same, completely stopped listening, began aggressively removing dedicated volunteers and paid personnel from the project soon after the first DLC dropped as they began the extrication.

 

[Colonel Bogey]

I was there and watched the retreat and talked to the individuals involved.

I stand by my version.

Did Romero self fund the game? Nope, Paradox financed it as the publisher. If the expected forecasts weren’t met then there is a financial incentive to pull the game. Only the publisher can do this as they control the purse strings.
You claiming insider knowledge goes contrary to how most industries work, not just gaming.

 

[Frank_Costello]

Did Romero self fund the game? Nope, Paradox financed it as the publisher. If the expected forecasts weren’t met then there is a financial incentive to pull the game. Only the publisher can do this as they control the purse strings.
You claiming insider knowledge goes contrary to how most industries work, not just gaming.

Just telling you what I saw, and heard, bro. You can take it any way you want.

And the fact TinyWiking is out here talking while the Romeros cut off all communication on this matter years ago does nothing but reinforce my beliefs.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

If you all have right and Romero Games have canceld the PC-Version for whatever Reasons, then explain why the Steam-Shop show this for the PC-Users and haven´t throgh the Game incl. all DLCs out from the Shop:

Empire of Sin - Expansion 2 on Steam

The second expansion for Empire of Sin includes new game mechanics, missions, and powerful characters that come to visit Chicago. The question is, will you let them stay?

store.steampowered.com

 

[Blaeys]

If you all have right and Romero Games have canceld the PC-Version for whatever Reasons, then explain why the Steam-Shop show this for the PC-Users and haven´t throgh the Game incl. all DLCs out from the Shop:

Empire of Sin - Expansion 2 on Steam

The second expansion for Empire of Sin includes new game mechanics, missions, and powerful characters that come to visit Chicago. The question is, will you let them stay?

store.steampowered.com

The front page of the Romero website shows the problem clearly -

Romero Games

romerogames.com

There is no other way to interpret "100% focused on first-person shooters" than their totally abandoning Empire of Sin. And it raises a ton of questions for both Romero and Paradox (if not Romero, is anyone else able to develop the last DLC - and, if so, are they doing so?).

No idea why people continue to point the finger at Romero Games. The only entity that can pull a game is the publisher. As I’ve said previously Romero ‘running off with the cash’ would be a breach of contract. As would them talking about it as they’ll have a non disclosure clause.
The issue is firmly at Paradox’s door. They don’t have non disclosure clauses, they’re just unwilling to communicate about it.

To the point about who is to blame - there are three companies who are culpable in my opinion - Romero (because they committed to another DLC and, as you see above, have abandoned it. I dont care why - the facts stand for themselves), Paradox (because they sold us a second DLC we will never get as part of a season pass) and Steam (because the way they do Season Passes eliminates any path to a refund if the developer/publisher fails to deliver).

There is blame at all levels here - no matter how much we want to like any one of these companies.

 

[Skylax]

If you all have right and Romero Games have canceld the PC-Version for whatever Reasons, then explain why the Steam-Shop show this for the PC-Users and haven´t throgh the Game incl. all DLCs out from the Shop:

Well, it has to be true if it "written on the Internet".

 

[Colonel Bogey]

The front page of the Romero website shows the problem clearly -

Romero Games

romerogames.com

There is no other way to interpret "100% focused on first-person shooters" than their totally abandoning Empire of Sin. And it raises a ton of questions for both Romero and Paradox (if not Romero, is anyone else able to develop the last DLC - and, if so, are they doing so?).




To the point about who is to blame - there are three companies who are culpable in my opinion - Romero (because they committed to another DLC and, as you see above, have abandoned it. I dont care why - the facts stand for themselves), Paradox (because they sold us a second DLC we will never get as part of a season pass) and Steam (because the way they do Season Passes eliminates any path to a refund if the developer/publisher fails to deliver).

There is blame at all levels here - no matter how much we want to like any one of these companies.

It’s not about ‘liking’ any of the companies. There has to be a reason why development abruptly ended. It happened just after the release of the first DLC. This leads me to conclude that sales targets weren’t met and as a result Paradox decided not to throw good money after bad and so withdrew funding for DLC 2 which meant Romero couldn’t continue development.
It’s a sound business decision if a product is making a loss but Romero won’t have made that decision. That can only be decided by the publisher. The only blame that can be attributed to Romero is that the game was poorly received which led to it being cancelled.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

Bogey and Blayes, there is no one to blame. Not Steam and all other Plattforms, not Paradox, not Romero.

The Platforms which sell that Game, have all the 2nd DLC still in the Pre-Order / Buy-Screen. Means: The Development goes on, but is not seeable for the Public anymore. That could have a lot of reasons after Corona lays down all or reduced the Production-Power for all Computer-Games incl. DLCs, which are in WIP. The 2,5 Years of forced brake have encounterd all Companys (Game-Developers, Logistic Companys, Hotels, Manufacturerers etc.) worldwide with more or less outcomes.

Romero deciced to make an complete Game-Design-Refit to an better Game-Designer-Workingtool in the dayly continuing operation and all their Games. If they wanna do that, then it´s their good right. Many Companys played with such an Mind and some are doing it through the Time Corona and the last match with the Unity-Game-Designer-Company gives them.

I don´t see an problem with that. If the 2nd DLC for Empire of Sin will come in 5 or 10 Years, then it will be so.

 

[Blaeys]

It’s not about ‘liking’ any of the companies. There has to be a reason why development abruptly ended. It happened just after the release of the first DLC. This leads me to conclude that sales targets weren’t met and as a result Paradox decided not to throw good money after bad and so withdrew funding for DLC 2 which meant Romero couldn’t continue development.
It’s a sound business decision if a product is making a loss but Romero won’t have made that decision. That can only be decided by the publisher. The only blame that can be attributed to Romero is that the game was poorly received which led to it being cancelled.

Im fine with companies abandoning a game if the sales are bad. What Im not okay with is companies abandoning a game when players have paid for content they still havent delivered and that they are unable or unwilling to refund.

It's a simple equation - Romero made profit off of DLC 2 that they arent going to give back to players. They are responsible for making that content. Doesnt matter how poorly the content they did deliver sold.

And it is just insult to injury that they are able to take the money they made for content they never created and use it on a completely different project (same goes for Paradox- they should be ashamed with every new game they sell while this still an issue).

Yes, Romero shares in the blame - zero question. They arent alone in sharing it, but they do.