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OK. I've had my say about the events of yesterday. I have apologised for my part in them, and have done my best to make up for it. If that is not enough for you, then so be it; I'm not going to argue any more.

zeroXero, welcome. GMT+1 is Norway/Sweden, yes? That is six hours ahead of me, and the game is 1100 my time, so it should be 1700 yours, on Sundays. (I believe RP is either GMT or GMT + 1, so he should be able to confirm this.) Also can you please post your ICQ number, and message Trav (and maybe a couple of others as well) with a request to be added to their contact list? You can find our numbers in the first post of this thread. If your ICQ name is different from your forum name, it would be helpful if you included the line "I am zeroXero from the Pdox forums" in your request, so we know it's not spam.

About Dukedoms, I am frankly not convinced that's such a great idea. There is basically no AI to bash anymore, and even a powerful Duke is a rather minor player in the politics of this game. I believe there are some independent Dukes in the Caucasus area, of whom something might be made - between the Mongols, the rebellion in the Seljuk Turks' domains, and the retreat of Byzantium, that whole region is rather in flux, and a skilled player might be able to make himself a power in the land. On the other hand, the Il-Khanate is on its way. Your call, though. If Trav has put up the latest maps in the first post of this thread (along with the rules change, right Trav?) you can take a look at the situation there. Or I can send you the savegame once we make contact in ICQ.

Now, from your location English is probably not your first language, but do you mind not using IM shortcuts in forum posts? I am referring to abbreviations like 'thx' and 'ya', and abominations like not capitalising 'I'. That has a place when you're in a hurry, like ingame chat; but here you have all the time you need, and it does make you look a bit noobish. Take your time, and people will take you more seriously.
 
OK folks,

I've posted the most recent MAP as well as these new rules. Please take the time to read the thread starter and let me know if I need to fix, enhance or update anything.

New Rules:
  • Upon starting a player versus player war, the aggressor must state their war goals. This is necessary so all players will understand what the attacker is looking for and what the defender must consider to end the hostilities. For example; As the Duke of Apulia I demand that Sicily surrender the county of Trapani and recognize Apulia as their new ruler . During the conflict both sides can negotiate these demands.
  • During player versus player wars, no side can take lands from their opponents realm without first controlling the opponents demesne counties.

After going over the recent session in my mind I feel the lack of role-playing and general good sportsmanship lent to the debacle. Please folks, please consider what we are trying to do and have fun while we do it. Role-playing your kingdom can add so much to the game and elevate the engrossing qualities of the game for the other players.

Also consider the scope of the game. We have a long time to play, many hundreds of years to go. Form alliances, plot and plan your strikes. Use diplomacy and figure out who you can trust and who you can't. Most players reveal their true style and nature eventually. Play your strengths and get help where and when you are weak.

Traveler

...
 
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Uh, Trav, one thing about the annexing vassals rule. If the kingdom does not defend its vassal (is not in an active war with the aggressor), then the aggressor kingdom should be free to annex the vassal. This was the case with Dom and Normandy. He followed the rules (official and unofficial) fine and played in excellent fashion. He awaited until his opponents were occupied elsewhere and took advantage of it. Contempible actions roleplay-wise, but applaudable actions OOC-wise. Dom attacked Normandy, stated that his goal was to annex it, gave Prime ample time to retaliate... yet no retaliation came.

Therefore, I believe it was completely fine to annex Normandy. Unfair, but that's the nature of this game. Was it fair when Dom, KoM, Trav, and Blackeye attacked me during the middle of the Mongol Horde's assault on Polish Georgia? No, but that is an essential part of any game about feudal intrigue and politics and therefore I enjoyed and accepted it. I lost Rus, but now it means I have something to fight to gain again (west or east), instead of just fighting to hold on to what I had. Oh, btw, Lurken we have far more than 200 years left... by my count we have 664 years left.
 
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Not true Sterk. I asked England for help because I was under attack from Germany. I entered an official alliance with Dom and he sent a huge army to Normandy to help. When he arrived in Normandy he declared war and annexed the Duchy and its vassals, without giving prior warning.

There was no time for me to defend the vassal - as its troops where occupied elsewhere and the huge army sieging made sure he could annex it before I even could get an army near. The annexing had a big part of my mobilized army disband, making me loose the war against Germany.

He never said anything during the whole process.

I spoke with Dom after this happened on icq and he admitted that he didn't see a reason to fight a fair war as this would cost troops, money and gain him more BB.

Anyway I am tired of having to defend myself on this and am currently considering my position in the game.
 
Here's my statement on the events leading up to and including the war and then I am done with it.

During the fall of Brandenburg, actually a little bit before, WG's England was crumbling and Flanders seized Normandy from England then. That was a bone in my craw at the time, frankly I didn't like the borders it created and I'm damn near obsessive compulsive about borders in P'dox games. I'm sure KoM and Trav and Lotus if he's around can back me up on the obsessive compulsive borders thing.

When I attacked Normandy I did sign an alliannce with Flanders. Yes indeed I did, it was a good way to allow myself to sneak troops over there and retake lands I considered English. I took Normandy, but I did take it province by province, considering at the time it was a two province Duchy. I then seized the lands of Arques. I then left my borders with Flanders at that, I had Normandy back and did not wish to expand further.

Meanwhile I expanded against the then AI France, seizing control of the Duchy of Brittany as a whole and then the lands around Vendomme and Orleans. It was at this time we got a French player.

I gave Orleans to France for absolutely nothing, simply good will.

Then the war...

Next week I will be back to be the destroyer of games I guess RP, since I am the most evil of whoever's creations. <-- That was sarcasm in case you couldn't identify it.
 
Trav, maybe you could update the list of open kingdoms? There's Bohemia and Russia available, now. In fact, Russia looks like it could use some help against the Mongols, now that the Eastern Superstate isn't sitting on them anymore.

On another subject, how do you get those maps of the entire playing region? I can't get my game to zoom out anywhere near as far. If I may make a suggestion, though, can you convert them to jpg format? Those huge bitmaps take a bit of time to load.

I agree with Sterk about being able to annex vassals if you're not at war with the liege; that basically means he has abandoned the area to you.
 
I agree with KoM and Sterk about annexing vassal to liege that is not at war with you. It is reasonable.
 
Like the quote Lurken :rofl:
 
Dominus said:
Like the quote Lurken :rofl:
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Aah...someone that finally saw it. Yeah...though it was a great quote.
 
Anybody know the name of my current king? His name fails me at the moment...

EDIT: Nevermind, found a screenshot of him.
 
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Traveler said:
First Duuk quit in a huff, which I chalked up as an aberration. I truly miss Duuk and didn’t like to see him go like that but never expected it to get worse.
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Then you probably shouldn't have attacked your largest vassal for no reason and brought all of Europe down on my head for no apparent RP reason.

This game turned from RP into power gaming AI bashing.
 
Duuk, I think you are the only one who feels that Trav did either of those things. Now, I think you would still be welcome to come back; Bohemia is a kingdom these days, even. Or you could just kibitz the AARs, or be a neutral observer. If you like, I am sure nobody would object to you playing the Herald Corps, or Teutonic Order, or some similarly neutral institution, in the Dip thread, and we could get some RP going there.

But if you're just going to throw sour accusations around and generally help spoil the tone of the thread - do you mind going elsewhere?
 
quitting mid game is unacceptable in any situation. Simple as that.

quitting between sessions aint great either but is not nearly so bad because it doesnt ruin it for everyone else.
 
First of all, we should not invite Duuk back into the game. Secondly, I don't believe we should let him in at all. He violated the basic, unspoken rule of paradox MP... to never quit mid-session and to most certainly not do it due to your country being weakened. The worst thing is, his country wasn't even that weak. It was in a massive war, but I believe a WP and return to normalcy could easily have been achieved, with Duuk becoming a vassal of Naples once more. Therefore, let us make an example of Duuk. If he gets to play at all, he most certainly should not be allowed to play as Bohemia, more like a weak duke or powerful count.
 
Things look brighter in school. I can make it now on sunday. Albeit late. Just keep ICQ open.

Regarding Duuk...I agree with the latest writer on this subject. It is bad to quit mid-session. Really bad.
 
Sterkarm said:
First of all, we should not invite Duuk back into the game. Secondly, I don't believe we should let him in at all. He violated the basic, unspoken rule of paradox MP... to never quit mid-session and to most certainly not do it due to your country being weakened. The worst thing is, his country wasn't even that weak. It was in a massive war, but I believe a WP and return to normalcy could easily have been achieved, with Duuk becoming a vassal of Naples once more. Therefore, let us make an example of Duuk. If he gets to play at all, he most certainly should not be allowed to play as Bohemia, more like a weak duke or powerful count.
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Oh have no fear, I don't want back in. Trav stole my vassal to generate a war with me, utterly crushed me and then refused to make peace, all while accusing me of starting the war.

But I did have fun playing this game prior to that and wish you all the very best.
 
Duuk... get out of here. Leave us alone to have our game and quit whining like the quitter that you are. Trav was fully in his right to steal your breakaway vassal, it was smart to start a war with his vassal who was plotting against him.
 
England needs a sub for tomorrow... Sorry, got a date tomorrow and you guys lose out to that.. lol
 
Dude, you're only showing how desperate you are. Tell her "Sorry, I'd rather play a fantasy history game than be with you." That'll show her you're a strong, independent guy who doesn't really need her, and has the balls to tell her so. Chicks dig that.
 
King of Men said:
Dude, you're only showing how desperate you are. Tell her "Sorry, I'd rather play a fantasy history game than be with you." That'll show her you're a strong, independent guy who doesn't really need her, and has the balls to tell her so. Chicks dig that.
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Yes.. Let me do that...
:eek:

I'm sure that will work out fine. :D :p
 
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