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Yeh i've looked at Dark Ages already. The Link seems to have not been on these forums for half a year though. I've already used some of his work; monarchs and things. Gave me some good inspiration. I'll include a credits file in the next version too. I've brought in several things from other mods :eek:o
 
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The Swert said:
Yeh i've looked at Dark Ages already. The Link seems to have not been on these forums for half a year though. I've already used some of his work; monarchs and things. Gave me some good inspiration. I'll include a credits file in the next version too. I've brought it several things from other mods :eek:o

Hehe, kinda noticed that ;)

I would help you with this mod but I pretty much suck at modding Eu2. I'm more HoI2 modder type.
 
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Ok. I've released a new version called 1.0. I wasn't sure whether to call it 0.2 or 1.0. Progress is gradual so there's no stand out point of when the mod is complete enough to be a full version but i figured if I kept releasing betas it would never become a full version. Besides most of what I planned is now intact, it's just a matter of adding to the base that I now have.

A few gameplay notes:

Abbasids:
Playing the Abbasids will be like playing as the Golden Horde in vanilla. Traditionally the Abbasids Caliphate collapsed during the 9th century with several dynasties splitting off. Ideally the same will happen to an Abbasid player.

East Francia:
East Francia has been setup so that at the death of Charles the Fat in 888 the empire splits into each of its stem duchies. The most complicated event sequence i've ever seen allows the player to choose which duchy to continue as and grants independence to the other duchies accordingly.

Middle Francia:
At the death of Lothar in 855, Middle Francia will split up into Lotharingia, Italy and Provence. A player playing as Middle Francia will become Lotharingia but the others can be played by saving and reloading. Lotharingia then undergoes a few automatic border changes as historically it came under dispute by West and East Francia. By the death of Charles the Fat, Lotharingia's lands should be normalised but in the future it will collapse even more to form Lorraine releasing the Low Countries and others to their own rule.

West Francia:
West Francia does not split up like the others. However many nations do split off from it automatically and by the time it forms France it's size is much smaller.

Normandy Invasion:
The 1066 English Succession is event-based as it would be too hard to simulate such important invasions with the game engine.
As it stands, the Normans have a 89.2% chance of taking England, the Norwegians have a 1.2% chance and Wessex has a 9.6% chance of repelling both assaults. As a Norman player, if you make the right selections you have cannot lose. As a Norwegian player, if you make the right selections you will defeat Wessex and may defeat the Normans. As a Wessex player, if you make the right selections you may defeat the Norwegians and may defeat the Normans. Even if you do lose either or both battles as Wessex you will not be conquered but will be greatly compromised in the war which could lead to being conquered.



I would like some feedback on how it plays. I haven't had time to give it a proper go so any feedback and suggestions would be great. There will probably be some bugs. Obviously more events, shields, flags, monarchs and leaders will be made as we go. That's what updates are for :)
 
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The Swert said:
I would like some feedback on how it plays.

I'll give some 0.1 feedback, experiences from Wessex game:

- Danelaw AI is totally inactive.
- Rebel invasion events (Danes in Britain) are not working correctly since either the rebels are defeated the same second they come, and if they succeed "Government falls" fires and returns province to owner, so no Danelaw event can fire. I gave them some land by manually firing events and giving provinces free in peace..
- Especially in Spain, all conquests are based on defection. Once Leon had one province left, but due to Cordoba not stoppind revolt nearly all of Spain fell into rebel hands, and defected to such countries like Leon, Francia and Italy.
- There should be events that convert Pagan nations to Christianity.
- Finland could be able to see Karelia and vice versa. There were some wars between them in early 2nd millenium.
- Countries could be less rich; 400 ducats is a lot starting money.
- Abbasid Dynasty is Electorate of HRE.
 
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Lord Finnish said:
1- Danelaw AI is totally inactive.
2- Rebel invasion events (Danes in Britain) are not working correctly since either the rebels are defeated the same second they come, and if they succeed "Government falls" fires and returns province to owner, so no Danelaw event can fire. I gave them some land by manually firing events and giving provinces free in peace..
3- Especially in Spain, all conquests are based on defection. Once Leon had one province left, but due to Cordoba not stoppind revolt nearly all of Spain fell into rebel hands, and defected to such countries like Leon, Francia and Italy.
4- There should be events that convert Pagan nations to Christianity.
5- Finland could be able to see Karelia and vice versa. There were some wars between them in early 2nd millenium.
6- Countries could be less rich; 400 ducats is a lot starting money.
7- Abbasid Dynasty is Electorate of HRE.

Thanks for these. I've just uploaded v1.0 so i'll have to fix these in v1.01.

1- Every country used the same default.ai in v0.1 including Danelaw, so I don't see why they had no AI at all. Will investigate and probably give them their own file.

2- Yes I will have to improve this sequence of events. I want to use rebels as opposed to having Denmark actually invading though as funny things can happen when wars are made, and a war can't be stopped by event.

3- One of the things hardcoded in this game that affects playing before the normal start date is rebel behaviour. Their morale seems to take months to rise but yet the AI suck at defeating them and defections are common. Will work on, but a lot of the rebel behaviour won't be manageable and will have to be thought of as Viking pillagers or something.

4- Planned, i'm sort of working through the events chronologically. They will all convert and change tech group too.

5- Map knowledge has been overhauled for much of europe in v1.0.

6- At the moment every nation starts with the default amount of 400. Will lower for smaller, poorer nations.

7- Oops. I haven't yet adjusted electors. Will fix in next version.
 
Hi, I just happened to bump into the EUII forum today and noticed you were making this new mod of about the same timeperiod as my old Dark Ages mod.

So I just wanted to let you know that you are free to use any of the stuff that I made in my mod and use it in this one, since it seemed that you wondered about it a bit. I think i made some Coat of Arms and such too back then in the mod which were pretty nice if you noticed.

I remember that I was thinking about making the mod into WATK also when I was making the mod before but it just didn't get done, so it's nice to see that such a mod have been made now.

So I have kinda quit playing EUII (Maybe I'll try out this mod sometime though ;) ) and thus will I not be helping with anything, but as said you can use whatever you want from my old mod. It would be nice to be credited though of course :D

Good luck with the mod!
 
Hey The Link. Nice to see you drop by again.

You're mod was great influence btw and I took your comment of "so anyone who would want can continue it and take it over. The only thing I might do is try porting it to Watk, but that's all.. " to heart.

Thanks for popping in and giving permission to use your material. I hope you do get a chance to come back to EU2 and possibly play the mod, when it's finished.

As you wished to one day port it over WATK, I wish someday to port it over to MWATK. I would like to see two versions of this mod, one in WATKABAOI and one on MWATK. First though, I need to get MWATK's straits to work, which i've been looking into once more.

Meanwhile progress continues slowly on v1.01. I'm a bit overloaded atm by my AAR, the LibrAARy and the real world but I plan to release v1.01 soon.
 
New version out now.

Despite my best efforts i had to abandon using rebels in the Great Heathen Army sequence, they just died too easily. Also in this version the CK units have been removed as per Johan's request (see here) so i'm back to using the vanilla units.

As always, feedback would be much appreciated.
 
I just tested it a bit...

The setting and the new spirits are great.


I found it interesting to see an East Francia in eastern europe in the second scenario.

The baltic tribe old prussia should not use the german prussian shields etc.

The middle Francs should have more cultures instead only french. I would add german and italian, maybe dutch.

I also don't like the division of Middle Francia. If you have West and East Francia as one state, Middle Francia should be divided among them and not just fell apart into minors. I miss the effects of the treaties of Meersen (870; Lotharingia parted between East and West) and Ribemond (880, all of Lotharingia to East Francia). With that East Francia would have the borders of the HRE in western europe before it fell apart into all the minors in your 887 division. All the minors created in 855 shouldn't be created until 887. Only Italy should become an independent state through this partitions in 855.

In the text of the division of East Francia, i read something about lands ruled by the local german kings. When Charles died, there was only one king, the king of East Francia. All the smaller entities Saxony, Bavaria, Swabia, Franconia and Lothringia were only duchies (the younger stem duchies) formally under the king / later the emperor. Maybe there should be an option that avoids the division of EF and that allows to play further as East Francia and then change the country to Germany/HRE.

The cultures of the western slavic countries should not be polish. I would create an own culture for them.


Just what i thought while playing.
 
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Thanks for the feedback.

chefkoch said:
The setting and the new spirits are great.

I'm not sure what you mean here. The new sprites were removed in the latest version.

I found it interesting to see an East Francia in eastern europe in the second scenario.

Thanks for that. It's supposed to be Polotsk. The 1067 scenario is still a mess, i'm just trying to add a few little things each update until i'm happy enough with the 844 scenario to change focus.

The baltic tribe old prussia should not use the german prussian shields etc.

True but i'm not sure what to replace them with. For so many tribes we know nothing of their symbolism.

The middle Francs should have more cultures instead only french. I would add german and italian, maybe dutch.

Ok I will add german and italian. Leave dutch for the frisians. although much of Western Europe had really been frankified hadn't it?

I also don't like the division of Middle Francia. If you have West and East Francia as one state, Middle Francia should be divided among them and not just fell apart into minors. I miss the effects of the treaties of Meersen (870; Lotharingia parted between East and West) and Ribemond (880, all of Lotharingia to East Francia). With that East Francia would have the borders of the HRE in western europe before it fell apart into all the minors in your 887 division. All the minors created in 855 shouldn't be created until 887. Only Italy should become an independent state through this partitions in 855.

I assume you mean something like what's discussed here. I did consider it but I figured I was too far into doing in this way. I will try to rewrite the whole sequence and see how it goes. If I do implement it I must ensure that Lotharingia exists at all points if a human is playing as them. Humans don't like being split-up or annexed.

In the text of the division of East Francia, i read something about lands ruled by the local german kings. When Charles died, there was only one king, the king of East Francia. All the smaller entities Saxony, Bavaria, Swabia, Franconia and Lothringia were only duchies (the younger stem duchies) formally under the king / later the emperor. Maybe there should be an option that avoids the division of EF and that allows to play further as East Francia and then change the country to Germany/HRE.

Sounds like a good idea. But it could make it very easy for a human.

The cultures of the western slavic countries should not be polish. I would create an own culture for them.

I might rename polish to 'west slavic' or something. I'm more worried about what Balaton should be, technically they were south slavic but the closest thing is croat or serb. I really need to overthrow the whole culture system, Central Asia is bad too.
 
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The Swert said:
I'm not sure what you mean here. The new sprites were removed in the latest version.

The catapult and the religious signs.


The Swert said:
True but i'm not sure what to replace them with. For so many tribes we know nothing of their symbolism.

The german wikipedia has two flags of the old prussians.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Prußenfahne-Hartknoch.jpg

One with the three guys and the second with the horses and the shield between them.

The first one is the war flag and the guys are their main gods. That flag had also some runes on it. The runes were similar to runes found in Denmark and could be brought over from Gotland. Later added runes on the flag bring ancient greek runes to mind.
The ready flag could have looked like this:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Götterbild.jpg

The second one (the regular flag) could be from their King Waidewut (5/6th. century) or another lord. The horses are blue molds and the other thing on the shield between them is a men with the head of a bear. Open mouth and tongue out.

Maybe someone can make something similiar for you.


Tho whole article in german:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prußen#Schrift_der_Pru.C3.9Fen
 
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I have tried the Magyars first, but found it very insulting, 'cause it's very buggy.

1. The Magyar national symbol was a hawk- or eagle-like bird called "The Turul". This bird was sometimes giant like the North American Indians' "Thunderbird". The entire archaic Magyar culture was based on this creature! They used it as a national symbol until the reign of the first king, Stefanus I Arpad. His father Geza (as christianized Magnus) were believed in both Jahve-God and in the archaic tartar-hun War God (I belive Nerg'al).

2. Wlachs (or Romanians) were never lived in Moldavia before the Late Middle Ages (they were lived in non-significant numbers in modern Serbia, Bosnia, and in Southern Carpathia! They were an Illyrian tribe not a Latin (only their language resembles the Roman influence). Moldavia was populated by mostly Magyars, and later by Pechenegs (turkish tribe).

3. Ruthenians are mixed people: vikings+turks+MONGOLS!!! The turkish Pechenegs lived in modern Ukraine in those years, before the arrival of the Cumans. Until the Mongol Invasions there weren't Ruthenians. Tough their name mirrors the Rus, this is only a name.

4. Only Varangians, Cumans, Pechenegs, Magyars, and Khazars were lived in Southern Russia and Ukraine. There were a vast Magyar population in Volgan Bolgaria as well, until the arrival of the Mongols. These Magyars were lived in Bashkiria and Itilia.

I would be very pleased if you would correct these problems soon. I'll look for other problems. Pannonia is a well made part of your map, congratulations! I'll check other parts too. And as an extra you better know: Magyars aren't simply an Ugric tribe, but a mix of Turkish-Tartar(Bashkir)-Ugric-Sumer(!) blood (mostly Turkish and Sumer).

Please, contact me for details or discussions on MSN or E-mail!

Tony, carrier of the Turul-banner
 
Thanks for the info on the Magyars and such. I was planning an upgrade of that region in the next update. I'll look into it.
 
Sorry I forgot to give you some help:

1. The nation you call Balaton was indeed a slavic principality freshly broken from Frankish overlordship. In the years of the scenario the country was ruled by a chief named Salan.

2. There is an official list of Magyar rulers. The Magyar chronicles and legends usually mention the Slavic and Bolgarian rulers of Pannonia. Here's some: Simeon (Tzar of the Bolgars, muslim or orthodox, capitol: Preslavl), Salan (both of Frankish and Slavic origins, catholic or pagan, capital: somewhere near the lake Balaton+the left one of the two provinces, not the one you chose as capital), Sviatopolk (moravian, perhaps from the Przemysl-dynasty, capitol: near Vindobona).

3. City name, culture, and owner changes (first phase): Tsaritsyn->Sarkel; Belgorod->Peyeraslavl (russian); Kiev (under the control of Halic or the Magyars); Bakhchisaray->Khersonessos (greek); Kaffa->Theodosia; Azov->Tana (orthodox); Kastamonu->Sinope (greek); Erzurum->Theodosiopolis (greek/armenian); Konya->Ikonion (greek); Antalya->Attalea (greek); Izmir->Smyrna (greek); Balikesir->Abydos (recommended); Bursa->Kyzikos (port city); Edirne->Adrianopolis; Durazzo->Dyrrachion; Nis->Naissos (still greek); Eger->Agria (latin name); Buda->Aquincum (still in use); Sarajevo->Jajce (under Croatian control!); Filippopel-> Preslavl (original Bolgar capital, Byzantine occupation); Varna->Mesembria (nearby greater greek city); Lwow->Halic/Galich (russian); Astrakhan->Itil/Ithil (original name); Lake Aral &Amu-Daria River->Oxos (these given the names of both Oxania and Transoxania(=Trans-amu-Daria)); Beograd->Singidunum (it's still used in that era)

4. Serbia is still vassal of Byzantium, Zeta is greek, orthodox, thus controlled by Byzantium.

5. I'd love a rebellious Vandal state in the Atlas Mountain (orthodox or pagan) to oppose the arabs. I think the word "berber" isn't arabic, numidian nor black-african people's name, but of the Vandals' (=Barbars') (given the name of the Barbary Coast too).

6. Alexandria would be better as greek culture and orthodoxhy.

7. I forgot to check Sicily and italy, so: the cities of Messina and Syracusae must be greek, as well as Naples (Neapolis), Taranto (Tarenton), and Bari.

8. The first settlement near Sucheava was Hungarian, and it was named Jaszvasar (estabilished before the Mongol Invasion, today Iasi). You better use this name, and you should change all Romanian to Hungarian (Magyar)

9. Recommended randomleaders for Magyars (do not use Wlach names anymore, please!), many are turkish names too: Kushid, Tasch (Tas), Titin, Itil, Arpad, Tacsony, Tarkacu, Diarmat (Gyarmat), Medier (Megyer), Jelegh, Kuert (Kürt), Jenoe (Jenö), Sol, Truntai, Almosch (Almos), Ond, Kond, Houba (Huba), Tormacu, Vaik, Kupan.

10. Anatolia (Asia Minor) was the core of the Byzantines' economy in those years. You better raise their productivity to high levels, thus renaming the cities to their greek forms, culture, and religion! Do not forget the non-byzantine controlled greek cities. Nuyssaybin (in EU2, it's Mosul, but that's Ninive)->Nisibis, and there must be greek Palmyra, Damascus, Accon, Tripolis (both of 'em), Cyrene (or Berenice<=Benghazi).
 
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The rest:

11. You better remove castilian culture around Cordoba.

12. There's a need of more mongolian tribes. Some important example: Jadarans, Tartars(original tartars!!!), Keraits.*

13. City name, culture, and owner changes (second phase): Novy Sacz->(Slovak); Karpatok->(Hungarian); Pozsony->Pressburg (German or Czech); Debrecen->Varad; Craiova->Szoreny (hungarian name, but better than romanian); Turnovgrad->Nicopolis (perhaps greek); Ochakov->Olbia (Hungarian); Silistria->Tomi; Chilia->?

14. Byzantine addcores: Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Armenia, Syria, Jordania, Egypt, Cyrenea, Tripolitania, Tunisia, Crimea, Mesopotamia (not so long ago Baghdad was a greek populated Persian capital named Ctesiphon)

15. Events for Byzantine reconquista are needed (rehellenisation events in Syria, Egypt, Mesopotamia, Azer, Cyrenaica, and Tripoliatania). Please, rename all turkish named settlements to their original greek names.

16. Armenian and Azerian cities must have greek and armenian cultures. Baku->Apsheron (greek); Van (greek), Malatiya->Melitene (greek), etc. Tbilisi isn't georgian but armenian and it's better be called Artaxata. Beirut->Tripoli (greek), Damascus (greek). Other ones like Annam and Jerusalem could remain arabic culture and faith.

17. Watch out for the tribes of Manchuria.

18. Hokkaido, parts of Tohoku, Kuril-islands and Southern Kamcatka are in need of a new culture created. They're the Ainu (or Ezo. They're hunter-gatherers, japanese-aleutian-polinese mixes)

19. A small Hawaiian Kingdom would be a good idea.

20. Maya!!! They just started to build their culture!

21. Cahokee (near original EU2map Cahokia). Native-american tribe too, but cree-like.

22. Cree.

23. Abenake: indians near quebec, traded with vikings from Sccandinavia!

22. There was an ancient city (really) in the place of Tenochtitlan, so another indian culture is in need (or occupied by the Maya).

(22B: If you don't have any idea what to do, create a vast nation on the pacific coast of South America as plus: you could call it Mu Nova.)

23. Some early Iroquis tribes would be useful, like the Susquehanna.

24. Zimbabwe, please!

25. New events: "Byzantine liberation of Persia", "Byzantine liberation of Baktria"

26. Where are the small laotian kingdoms?

26+1. A little extra for the lovers of history: the mythical, secret nation of Prester John, somewhere near the Oxos.

_________
*contact me if you can't find 'em


SORRY FOR THE 'ORTHODOX' WORDS!
 
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And one more thing: if you want to try your mod in multi, we could arrange a party with other folks.

I just started to play and this entire jump into 1419 is a very bad idea. I would like to play the Franks but not as Italy, Lothringen, etc.
 
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Well i don't have time to go through all this info now but I will say that most of the new nations you have suggested can't be added due to the limited number of country tags and my wish to make this compatible with WATKABAOI. Only the most important states will be represented and only in Europe, Asia and North Africa.

What jump in 1419? Do you have the unlimited time patch? (I forgot to mention that was required)
 
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Looks like not. I've never heard about it before, so looks like I have to look around a bit. I'll look into your mod as well to help you create extras to the existing nations.

Don't forget Salan. He's the only historical monarch to Balaton. He wasn't a good economist, but a fine warrior. The Magyars were the allies of the Byzantine Empire, until they've been bribed by the Empire to invade Pannonia to crush Salan and Sviatopolk (1st or 2nd, i don't know, but he was the King of Moravia). After that they attacked the Empire backed by the Moravians, and besieged Constantinopolis. Turncoat act but, honest, 'cause the Magyars were a mercenary-like nomad nation. If you need Magyar rulers and history, just ask me.