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Yeah, that's correct -- they were only ever baronies, and they're only called "counties" here as a convention, because of the strict CK3 title rank system. It's the same as the vanilla "duchies" of Champagne, Flanders, or Toulouse (really counties), or things like the viscounties of Béarn or Limoges, or the lordships of Bitsch or Püttlingen, being called counties as well.
I could always localize English baronies to be called baronies in game, but I personally think that would just be confusing. (I tried mods for CK2 which did this for other titles, like the duchies I mentioned, and I found that confusing then, so I speak from experience lol.) Calling them "lordships" might be an option, although without a more flexible title rank system it might just make them feel less "important" than other counties somehow. Right now I would like to just keep them as counties for the sake of consistency, but if would be pretty easy for me to make a submod for people who want the more accurate titles.
(Although my previous attempts at messing with the title flavorization file resulted in most titles except for empires being called "Principalities", which just made things even worse)
EDIT: okay, never mind, I fixed it. My 00_landed_titles file didn't have the target k_armenian_principality that was indicated by the flavorization file, so I added it and now everything works as it should)
Personally I'm a huge fan of the localized titles that don't quite fit with the game structure (so duchy-level Counts in France and the Lowlands and county-level Barons in England), I find it adds a lot of flavour and uniqueness to the regions.
Added Khorasan, except for Ghor, which I want to put in Afghanistan to balance it out. A couple of counties only have 1 barony, and several others have only 2, but most of them have at least 3 or 4. Unfortunately I had to merge a bunch of counties together in order to get enough baronies (especially further east), but I didn't spend much time hunting down baronies so that could easily change.
One interesting exception is the area around Herat. This book apparently lists over 250 medieval places in the area, and would be an absolute godsend for finding baronies, but unfortunately I can't access it. On the other hand, I was able to find this paper, which quotes a Timurid-era shrine guide with 26 different shrine locations in the Herat area. Some of them are in the city itself, but even still I was able to locate ~15 places that could work as baronies. Unfortunately, if I drew them as baronies they would just have a few pixels each lol. So I went with a very cautious 5-barony setup for now but that could change with a bigger map size, or if I sort of sliced up the province like a pizza.
Anyway, here it is:
Also, I stripped out the northernmost corridor in Arabia and replaced it with some more baronies in the al-Qassim area. (It has 6 baronies now: 'Unayzah, Buraydah, ar-Rass, an-Nibaj, and al-'Awsajah, along with a barony for the Wadi Sahuq area to connect it with the western route south of Ha'il.) The provinces along the northern desert route were always kind of dubious to begin with and I've been told that it was never traversed by any armies, so I doubt they'll be missed. I've also added al-Washm as a separate province, with the baronies of Shaqra', Tharmada', and Ushayqir. I don't really know anything about the history of either al-Washm or al-Qassim though, so if I messed up anywhere then please let me know!
Hi, so I tried installing this mod, it shows up in the launcher, but the game map doesn't actually appear to be different, any idea of where I went wrong?
Hi, so I tried installing this mod, it shows up in the launcher, but the game map doesn't actually appear to be different, any idea of where I went wrong?
...I think the problem is that I forgot to include the .mod file when I uploaded the mod. I've fixed that now, so try re-downloading the mod and see if it works.
...I think the problem is that I forgot to include the .mod file when I uploaded the mod. I've fixed that now, so try re-downloading the mod and see if it works.
No, I think that's a problem on my end. The designated path I put in the .mod file was the full path from my computer, which probably causes problems if you don't have the same folder structure as me. I fixed that for the current download, so you could try re-downloading it again, but it's a pretty simple change so you could also do it yourself: go to the file "MMO Massive Map Overhaul.mod", then where it says "path", replace what's in the quotes with "mod/MMO Massive Map Overhaul". Let me know if that works, or if there are still problems!
No, I think that's a problem on my end. The designated path I put in the .mod file was the full path from my computer, which probably causes problems if you don't have the same folder structure as me. I fixed that for the current download, so you could try re-downloading it again, but it's a pretty simple change so you could also do it yourself: go to the file "MMO Massive Map Overhaul.mod", then where it says "path", replace what's in the quotes with "mod/MMO Massive Map Overhaul". Let me know if that works, or if there are still problems!
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It works now, thanks for being so responsive. Enjoying mucking about in it and looking forward to the future versions. Thanks again.
As for suggestions, perhaps give the Hautevilles some more counties in southern Italy/ Sicily? Robert is totally unlanded and Roger controls one little county. By 1066, they really had the balance of power down there, though I am loving all the counties in Italy overall.
Hey this all looks amazing, but I had just one little remark to make, which might seem nitpicky: Is there a particular reason you made Lindsey part of York rather than Mercia? While Deira, and later the Northumbrians did hold the land at times, by the time the Scandinavians arrived to England, Mercia has dominated the region for many decades. Either way, looking good!
Edit: Oh I just realized you are willing to add small Kingdoms like Valencia, which then brings me to another nitpick about the British Isles setup, De Jure Scotland being all of modern day Scotland is very anachronistic (although I guess you could say so for England too, but that less so), especially if we're talking about the 867 start date, as the kingdom had only just been founded, and would not conquer many of what we now consider its core areas for a few centuries. Consider adding a De Jure Ystrad Clud/Strathclyde to the region instead, as that Kingdom had existed for many centuries by the start date, and would remain so until annexed in the 12th century. Perhaps have the Isles (with Mann) as a Kingdom, along with Scotland and Strathclyde, and maybe add a decision to incorporate the other two into De Jure Scotland if fully annexed or something.
As for suggestions, perhaps give the Hautevilles some more counties in southern Italy/ Sicily? Robert is totally unlanded and Roger controls one little county. By 1066, they really had the balance of power down there, though I am loving all the counties in Italy overall.
Yeah, I've barely done any history modding for titles so far, leading to a lot of "holes" in the map. I first read your post a couple days ago and since then I've gone back and done a little, so it's a little better. But it's very much a work in progress right now.
That said, I can't quite figure out all the nuances of how those files are set up -- in CK2 each title had its own file, whereas CK3 groups them together by de jure kingdom. I don't really like the CK3 system and have been trying to cut and paste all the counties and duchies into separate files, but doing this seems to make the development history not show up in game (all counties just have the kingdom's base level of development). Except for Constantinople for some weird reason. On the other hand, some title histories weren't showing up at all in-game until I put them in separate files. It's all kind of confusing and that's part of why I'm not doing much history modding lol
Hey this all looks amazing, but I had just one little remark to make, which might seem nitpicky: Is there a particular reason you made Lindsey part of York rather than Mercia? While Deira, and later the Northumbrians did hold the land at times, by the time the Scandinavians arrived to England, Mercia has dominated the region for many decades. Either way, looking good!
Edit: Oh I just realized you are willing to add small Kingdoms like Valencia, which then brings me to another nitpick about the British Isles setup, De Jure Scotland being all of modern day Scotland is very anachronistic (although I guess you could say so for England too, but that less so), especially if we're talking about the 867 start date, as the kingdom had only just been founded, and would not conquer many of what we now consider its core areas for a few centuries. Consider adding a De Jure Ystrad Clud/Strathclyde to the region instead, as that Kingdom had existed for many centuries by the start date, and would remain so until annexed in the 12th century. Perhaps have the Isles (with Mann) as a Kingdom, along with Scotland and Strathclyde, and maybe add a decision to incorporate the other two into De Jure Scotland if fully annexed or something.
With York, Scotland, and Valencia I was pretty much just copying the vanilla CK3 setup. I did consider splitting off Strathclyde and the Isles, but I don't know much about those areas so I held off on doing that for now. Same thing with Lincolnshire -- I knew it shouldn't technically be in York, but I couldn't really think of anything better. Thanks for letting me know about Mercia's influence in the area -- now that inaccuracy can be fixed!
As for a an update on the status of the mod itself: I've gotten my hands on a copy of the Yemen Gazetteer, and between it and a few other sources I found online, I've been able to add a handful of counties (Wusab, Raymah, Hadur, Qudam, and al-Masani') and a whole bunch of baronies to the area. It's spotty and incomplete, but the areas I've reworked are now easily at the same level of detail as the densest parts of Western Europe, which is pretty exciting!
Here are the sources I found: here's an article with an overview of the Wusab area, this one talks about the Jabal Miswar area (along with a partially reconstructed genealogy of its rulers), this one is about Bayt al-Faqih in the Tihama but also has a couple of maps of the broader area, this one has a few footnotes of Rasulid-era towns and regions, which I've used to add a few baronies to the Yemeni Tihama, and finally this one (by the same author as the gazetteer) has a bit of info about the northwestern mountain areas. Finally, this book presumably goes into a lot of detail about the al-Ma'afir region in the southwest, but it's in Arabic which I can't read.
Hopefully this array of sources will be helpful not only with my mod, but also with any other modders interested in making adjustments to this region!
(I also finished Afghanistan, but I had a hard time finding baronies, so I ended up having to merge a lot of counties together. I'm kind of disappointed about that lol.)
I've actually made a lot of progress since my last update, but it's all been very scattered across India and the Maghreb, so it hasn't really been worth showing off. (I also started doing some of Portugal.) Altogether there are around 7-800 new baronies and 8 new kingdoms. I'll post some screenshots but it's kind of a mixed bag. Ifriqiya and Delhi are pretty good, but a lot of the rest is very rough. Sindh, Punjab, and Morocco are just straight up bad.
MAGHREB
I've been able to get a lot of baronies in Ifriqiya, thanks in large part to this book, and most counties have at least 3 baronies. There are a few with only 1 or 2 though. But the further west you go, the more trouble I've had finding stuff that's period-appropriate, and there are lots of 1-barony counties.
INDIA
With India I've been heavily relying on the Ain-i Akbari to find baronies. Results are mixed. Sindh, for example, is currently a pathetic 5-county kingdom, actually fewer than vanilla, but that's because vanilla had counties like Ranikot and Rajanpur that didn't exist until the 1700s. At least all 5 counties have at least 3 baronies. The Ain-i Akbari lists way more places in Sindh, but I've only been able to identify a handful of them. If I went around putting them in random, made-up places then I could easily get a lot more counties, but I really don't want to do that. Punjab is a similar case, but at least I was able to get it over 20 counties with most having several baronies.
Delhi, on the other hand, was a success -- I did some digging in the old British gazetteers to augment the Ain-i Akbari. It currently has 193 baronies in 37 counties, or about 5 baronies per county, which I guess is acceptable. There's a lot of variance, though: several counties only have 1 or 2 baronies, but then Alwar has 15, and Budaun had 14 before I split off Kabar as a separate county. That actually causes some glitchy graphics when you click on the county view:
Some of this will require either splitting off more counties or cutting baronies. I would strongly prefer the former.
I've also been running into another glitch where some counties have the wrong culture or religion, different from the ones I put in the province history files. I'm not sure what's causing it. It's actually been around since the beginning (some random counties in France having Norman culture) but it seems to have suddenly gotten a lot more common.
Note the random Andalusian provinces in the north, presumably being caused by interference from the Portuguese provinces I stuck in between various Indian ones
I have no idea why Correggio of all provinces became Sindhi -- the others are all involving provinces I've added recently, but Correggio's been there from the beginning. You can also see some of the random Norman provinces in the upper left, which have also been around from the beginning
I could always localize English baronies to be called baronies in game, but I personally think that would just be confusing. (I tried mods for CK2 which did this for other titles, like the duchies I mentioned, and I found that confusing then, so I speak from experience lol.) Calling them "lordships" might be an option, although without a more flexible title rank system it might just make them feel less "important" than other counties somehow. Right now I would like to just keep them as counties for the sake of consistency, but if would be pretty easy for me to make a submod for people who want the more accurate titles.
From a game design perspective, I think that it's okay to call counts and counties other things like chief or raj, but it's not okay to call something that is a county in game a barony because that was historically what it was called. It's fine to have a separate file or game rule for historical titles, but if you decide to call a county a skiddly in one part of the world don't call a duchy a skiddly in another part of the world by default.
Also, ideally you should try to have unique names for every thing. There shouldn't be any sort of case where there's a county with the same name as a duchy, or a duchy with the same name as a kingdom. The second one happens all the time in Vanilla in Eastern Europe and they tend to have very similar heraldry as well which can make it very confusing to tell which "Lithuania" you're talking about.
I've actually made a lot of progress since my last update, but it's all been very scattered across India and the Maghreb, so it hasn't really been worth showing off. (I also started doing some of Portugal.) Altogether there are around 7-800 new baronies and 8 new kingdoms. I'll post some screenshots but it's kind of a mixed bag. Ifriqiya and Delhi are pretty good, but a lot of the rest is very rough. Sindh, Punjab, and Morocco are just straight up bad.
Delhi, on the other hand, was a success -- I did some digging in the old British gazetteers to augment the Ain-i Akbari. It currently has 193 baronies in 37 counties, or about 5 baronies per county, which I guess is acceptable. There's a lot of variance, though: several counties only have 1 or 2 baronies, but then Alwar has 15, and Budaun had 14 before I split off Kabar as a separate county. That actually causes some glitchy graphics when you click on the county view:
I know this is more of a "More density and historicity" mod rather than being particularly focused on gameplay or balance, but it is totally okay to leave out places that are "worthy" of being baronies, or making places that aren't into baronies to avoid issues and help with balance. Also, don't be afraid to outright make up some baronies if you feel it's appropriate. Most people aren't gonna scour history to make sure that titles that don't matter in game actually existed at any point in history.
From a game design perspective, I think that it's okay to call counts and counties other things like chief or raj, but it's not okay to call something that is a county in game a barony because that was historically what it was called. It's fine to have a separate file or game rule for historical titles, but if you decide to call a county a skiddly in one part of the world don't call a duchy a skiddly in another part of the world by default.
Also, ideally you should try to have unique names for every thing. There shouldn't be any sort of case where there's a county with the same name as a duchy, or a duchy with the same name as a kingdom. The second one happens all the time in Vanilla in Eastern Europe and they tend to have very similar heraldry as well which can make it very confusing to tell which "Lithuania" you're talking about.
That is quite dense. Which sounds real cool.
I know this is more of a "More density and historicity" mod rather than being particularly focused on gameplay or balance, but it is totally okay to leave out places that are "worthy" of being baronies, or making places that aren't into baronies to avoid issues and help with balance. Also, don't be afraid to outright make up some baronies if you feel it's appropriate. Most people aren't gonna scour history to make sure that titles that don't matter in game actually existed at any point in history.
Also want to added more to this, since the game not really take population into account sometimes better to avoid places like artic waste or desert have more density than fertile farmland somewhere due to the lack of historical source of the region. I admit it is hard sometime to decide it due to 'province' work in CK3 because the need to also take into account army movement at the same time. History wise by the way the need to compromise or made up some place is okay i think. After all you try to based it on something so at least it is plausible.
Overall nice work and can't wait to play around with it.
Sorry about the long absence - life has kept me busy during the past month or so. It took far too long, but Awadh proper is finished now. 32 counties and 160 baronies, averageing exactly 5 per county:
I've played around a little with the colors for the various Indian kingdoms because I found the vanilla palette kind of ugly. Orange is definitely fitting for this region, but having all those shades next to each other was a bit too much. (I think orange is actually uniquely bad among colors for that.) Let me know what you guys think; this is hardly a final decision.
As for the areas to the south (around Allahabad, Jaunpur, Varanasi, etc.), I'm not entirely sure what to do. They technically aren't part of Awadh but they might end up there anyway for lack of a better alternative.
Finally, Portugal is also sloooowly filling up, but it's taking a long time. When I finish it I'll share the updated game files here.
Other changes that I haven't shown are, I added baronies in several areas, most notably in Iraq, where I added a bunch of medieval archaeological sites while also removing most of the southern marshes, since I assume it would not have been practical to march armies through there. Now if you want to get from Kufa to Basra you have to cut across to the Wasit area instead. I also added two new counties: Burgaria in Italy and Phokaia in Byzantium. The updated files are now attached to the main post, so feel free to check it out if you like.
