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New critical system is utter garbage

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Again wrong math. Phase C 20 mins.

It need to look like this in your post :

4rd Armored has 80/130/130/130
3rd Armored 70/105/150/150
2DB 100/110/115/115
GA 80/125/130/130
1st Pancerna 90/115/125/125
12thSS 70/115/135/135
Lehr 75/95/150/150

Although last ~2 mins income mostly irrelevant in phase C.
 
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The final five minutes of income tend to be almost inconsequential to a game, though, to be fair.

And generally, a division's income is less important than having units that are on the really good end of the price curve and 4AD is full of them, from 65pt stuarts to 110pt hellcats to 20pt rifles and engineers.
 
ZhukoDim said:
Again wrong math. Phase C 20 mins.

It need to look like this in your post :

4rd Armored has 80/130/130/130
3rd Armored 70/105/150/150
2DB 100/110/115/115
GA 80/125/130/130
1st Pancerna 90/115/125/125
12thSS 70/115/135/135
Lehr 75/95/150/150
Click to expand...

Ok i get it but phase C is 20 mins if your game is that long. If you have a strong phase A, you building on it.
And it doesn't change that much of what i just said, you still need two ticks to get your unit with these decks when you may have one hellcat per tick.
 
Karlburg said:
The final five minutes of income tend to be almost inconsequential to a game, though, to be fair.

And generally, a division's income is less important than having units that are on the really good end of the price curve and 4AD is full of them, from 65pt stuarts to 110pt hellcats to 20pt rifles and engineers.
Click to expand...

I will add mighty Bantam aka dirt cheap armored recon with 50cal and AA at the same time. :eek: 5 per slot with star. Come on eugen.
 
The new Crit system is nothing els ethen another layer of dice roling.. so even less direct influenc on vehicle engamends and even more bullshit situations.. Wp eugen, Wp..

Stuff like this is nothing else then removing direct inflenc of skill to make the outcom more even across serten skill lvls..
And to go a bit deeper, this crit system favors agan mass over class, sins the mass simply gets more lucky dice rols faster
 
ZhukoDim said:
I will add mighty Bantam aka dirt cheap armored recon with 50cal and AA at the same time. :eek: 5 per slot with star. Come on eugen.
Click to expand...

And for 35 points only... Yeah i forgot that one too.

Just to be complete then,

4rd Armored has 80/130/130/130 = 470.
3rd Armored 70/105/150/150 = 475.
2DB 100/110/115/115 = 440.
GA 80/125/130/130 = 465.
1st Pancerna 90/115/125/125 = 455.
12thSS 70/115/135/135 = 455.
Lehr 75/95/150/150 = 470.

and for the sake of it, 16th Luftwaffe : 100/150/100/100 = 450.

Which leads to only 5 points of diff between 3rd Armored and 4rd Armored, Something like 5*10 points more, 50 points more for 3rd Armored in C phase.
 
Gilmund said:
13 cheap 110 points 1200m hellcats able to shot/reverse indefinitely? With a points flow of 130 starting from B and 340 points overall ?
It's less costly than 125points 13ap M10 from 2DB when 2DB get 325 points overall.
it's less costly than A phase 130 points M4A1 from 3rd Armored, which are slower, don't have a 76mm, have 11ap instead of 13ap and knowing the 3rd armored get only 70 points in phase A and the 4rd Armored 80 points when 3rd Armored got 325 points overall
A beute firefly cost 200 points, 2 hellcats 220 points for only 70 points per tick in A phase for 12th SS and 320 points overall.
For 100 points a lehr player only get a puma with 10ap and a 50mm gun with 75 points per tick in A phase and 320 points overall.
Not to mention the 150 points 1000m shermans (lol) from 1st Pancerna with 330 points overall.
Or the 130 points 1000 shermans and the 210 points fireflys from GA for 80 points in A phase and 335 points overall.

Plus unkillable 130 points maraudeurs? Plus 4000m arty? And 4rd Armored also get cheap 20 points rifles to just hold ground, except 15 points A phase strezlcy from 1st Pancerna and 20 points rifles from GA with the shermans cost i just spoke about no armored deck get this kind of cheap infantry.

See where i'm going ? Everything is just too strong, which would be ok if that wasn't too cheap compared to other armored decks with the amount of points 4rd Armored get (double 130 points in B and C phases).
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How dare you give advice to someone who never lost to a tank division in his entire life.
 
And now for something completely different...

The critical system seems to me an attempt to bring a touch of Close Combat into the game...
And am thinking this new system has over turned the apple cart,the balance between vehicles and towed weapons.

Vehicles now are crewed by zombies.Zombies,whom can shrug off mortal wounds along with being quite capable of keeping a vehicle fully functional even down to having a single zombie.

Zombie driver's head taken off,no worries only a flesh wound,it'll be good to go in a sec...
 
local-festival said:
Designed by a people who have never really played this game.
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Can you be more precise..what do you hate the most? -_-'
And what do you suggest then?

In fact I disagree, not that I think it's excellent right now, but I think it's a good idea to have various crits happening.
I mean..tank/vehicle crews had to deal with various issues in real life, so having a bit of luck factor is OK for me.
But yeah it's also what should probably be improved, because crits like "Driver KO" or "Crew wounded" with the unit immobilized for 5-7s. happen too often.
Maybe reducing the chances of having the most "annoying" crits happen would be one of the solutions or reducing their effects?
 
I'd say a lot of the Criticals need to have more effect. You can't wake up from an explosion KO or getting injected and pelted with hot metal fragments in 10 seconds. I love the critical hit variety, but the effects just don't last long enough in a lot of cases.
 
Black Hand said:
Can you be more precise..what do you hate the most? -_-'
And what do you suggest then?

In fact I disagree, not that I think it's excellent right now, but I think it's a good idea to have various crits happening.
I mean..tank/vehicle crews had to deal with various issues in real life, so having a bit of luck factor is OK for me.
But yeah it's also what should probably be improved, because crits like "Driver KO" or "Crew wounded" with the unit immobilized for 5-7s. happen too often.
Maybe reducing the chances of having the most "annoying" crits happen would be one of the solutions or reducing their effects?
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He probably hates that a Panzerschreck crits and gets killed in return.
He probably hatest that a AT-gun crits and gets killed in return.
He probably hates that a Henschel 129 which cost 200 points crits two times (!)...and gets killed in return.
 
Fussel said:
He probably hates that a Panzerschreck crits and gets killed in return.
He probably hatest that a AT-gun crits and gets killed in return.
He probably hates that a Henschel 129 which cost 200 points crits two times (!)...and gets killed in return.
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Then what about reducing the chances of having some crits as I wrote but at the same time increasing instakills?
 
I think the critical chance should depend on the AP vs armor difference (I am pretty sure this is not the case right now).

A high AP attack (lets say 15 AP or Bazooka) penetrating low armor (lets say 2) should result in a very high kill chance.

15 AP penetrating 14 armor should result in more criticals.

This would reward good tactics (flanking/ambushing).
 
Black Hand said:
Then what about reducing the chances of having some crits as I wrote but at the same time increasing instakills?
Click to expand...

but why even have this layer of dice roling...
The game roles a dice to hit.. then the game rols a dice if u pen.. then the game rols a dice on what happens.. That are 3 dice rols in a row u have to get right to kill.

All and rly all this dose is making engagmends more and more unpredictable. So less skill based in the end. Why should ther be a dice roled crit nonsens that saves my enemy if i outplay him?
Spezialy on thing like Panzerfausts, clean Hs129 runs and At gun ambushes. This things simply dont happen often enuff in a game to truly equal out.

If i get crit lucky on my tiger running into a zooka and he gets lucky on his HT running into a faust we get equaly lucky on the dice rols and its still GG in my favor just because a dice i have absolutly no inflenc on. For the dice it was a equal changse for us both and looks very fair, but now i have a fucking tiger still alive raping his HT dry up the ass.

shit like this will never be truly equal and always favor one side in a game. This is why crits should be rare and exeptions not the critshow as we have it atm sadly.
 
Adolith said:
I think the critical chance should depend on the AP vs armor difference (I am pretty sure this is not the case right now).

A high AP attack (lets say 15 AP or Bazooka) penetrating low armor (lets say 2) should result in a very high kill chance.

15 AP penetrating 14 armor should result in more criticals.

This would reward good tactics (flanking/ambushing).
Click to expand...

Penetrations do depend on AP vs AV. However after your dice result = penetration, you get another dice roll with a chance to get various effects. Pre patch it used to be 75% for a kill, 10% for Transmission dmg, 5% for Bailed out, 5% Weapon damaged, 5% Tracks broken and these are only for front penetrations. If the target got penetrated from the sides or rear the odds were slightly different.

After the patch, my impression is they haven't added a new "layer" of dice roll, imo they just put more crits to the table, so the relative chance of landing a kill shot is lower. Not only that, but also having all crits reparable makes vehicles now significantly more persistent on the battlefield.

Another thing is that they might have also changed the "chance to penetrate" table values, as I think +2, +3 AP vs AV penetration effect is much rarer now (those 9AV Cromwells seem indestructible for PAK38s).

We really need someone to dig out those new tables from the files for us to 100% see what has changed.
 
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