New Formables Nations (kind of) approved by Wiz!

[MiniaAr]

To prove that I'm not throwing out big names without proof (a bit old but still):

From this topic:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/more-formable-countries.880917/page-8

Golden Horde as a formable: Ehh, I'd prefer something like 'Tatarstan' or 'Tataria' even if it's not historical, I don't like tags that have the government form in the name and would change the name of GH if there was anything reasonable to replace it with.
Yuan: I could see this being added.
Two Sicilies: Not significant enough. Sardinia-Piedmont at least has a use in upgrading Savoy from Duchy to Kingdom, but both Naples and Sicily are Kingdoms already.
Lotharingia: Very anachronistic. Probably not.
Latin Empire: Would be a cool alternative to Jerusalem, only thing I don't like is 'Empire' in the name.
Rajputjana: Sure, why not?
Turkey: Ehh, I think some sort of non-dynastic naming for dynastic countries that turn republics would be better.

I'd like to propose a new list of potential new formables countries:

• Yuan: I know that technically the Yuan are represented by Mongolia (as the Northern Yuan), but a new tag would serve a gameplay purpose of representing a new conquest of China by Mongolian people, instead of the Manchu conquest. Conditions should be relatively similar in that one would need to unify most of Mongolia, and then get a big share of Northern China, including Beijing. I would limit the formation to countries with Mongolian, Oirat, Khalkha or Chahar cultures. The formation would give Empire rank as the Qing formation does. And it would also give access to the "unify China" CB.
  
  
• Rajputjana/Rajahstan: This would represent a successful unifications of the various Rajput pincely states (thus reserved for Rajput culture). The tag formation would give kingdom rank as many smaller states start as duchy (Dhundar, Hadoti, Jaisalmer,...). The formation would also give claims on all Rajput areas not already owned and part of the requirement.
  
  
• Rum: as in "The Sultanate of Rum". Now that the Ottomans get a specific government form, this tag formation would represent a re-unification of the major part of Anatolia by the various Turkish beyliks. The Ottomans were a special case of those beyliks, as very early they destined themselves to be a link between West and East, whereas the Turkish beyliks would probably have been content with ruling all the others.
  
  
• Rhomania/Romaniæ/Rhomaniæ (pick your prefered version): This is a tag to represent a resurgent Latin Empire (Wiz didn't like tags with ranks in their names). There are still crusader states in the Agean, namely Athens and Naxos, and Achea can be released. I would argue that catholic states that took Constantinople would try and re-form the Latin Empire over converting to orthodoxy and adopting Greek culture. Therefore, the decision could also apply to even Venice or Genoa (or all Italian culture countries?). Regarding the name, and the potential argument about confusion with Romania formed by Wallachia or Moldavia, I think this is a non-argument. Indeed, we've had in the game Munster (Irish) and Münster (German) for years, and it's more a source of fun and entertainment than confusion.
  
  
• Hansa: This one is probably a dream, but I'd like very much to see the somewhat frustrating trade league mechanics allow a successful trade league leader (more than 10 members, great trade revenues,etc...) to be able to integrate some or all of it's member states and form a more centralised country. This would likely requires events and/or difficult conditions to pull out, but a compentent played would have a nice goal to reach as a merchant republic in northern Germany (the formation should be available to a merchant republic of Westphalian culture).
  
  
• Arelate: The last HRE emperor beig crowned King of Arles was Charles IV in Luxembourg in 1365, thus really not too long before the game. It could be formed by countries either:
  With Occitan primary culture: It's fine for Provence, Avignon and Dauphiné. But a bit less troublesome for Auvergne, Berry, Toulouse (and the Knights).
  With country tag Savoy, Provence, Avignon, Dauphiné. Those were the major counties constituant of the Kingdom. One of them might take the mantle and recreate the Kingdom for itself.
  As formation requirements, the provinces of Provence, Savoy, Lyon and Dauphiné were the major one (I think). Holding 3 of those 4 should allow to recreate the kingdom. Then, it will give claims on those 3 areas: Provence, Savoy and Romandie, as well as the single province of Franche-Comté. Also, it elevates the forming country to kingdom rank.
  

What do you think?

 

[Warial]

Even if the Borjigins are not the rulers, the Yuan can be revived. Originally, the Qing dynasty called itself the Jin dynasty after a previous Jurchen dynasty in the north of China. The latter Jin were ruled by the Aisin Gioro clan, while the Northern Jin were ruled by the Wanyan clan.

Not saying that it's impossible, but very unlikely. Turco-Mongol steppe governed itself with different rules, one of which was that only a descendant of Temujin can be made a Khan. For this reason the likes of Timur placed puppet Borjigin Khans on the thrones of their states, to gain legitimacy. Of course, this rule was broken several times, like when Esen of Oirats proclaimed himself Khan (only to be killed soon after), or Kho Orluk of Torghud (who ruled over only Kalmyks). However, it should be a lot harder for non-Borjigin to create Yuan.

 

[moscal]

But problem still exists - united China need other, non-general, mechanism of state, so as not to have to type 100 tags and 100 flags etc. because "something A or something B".

 

[MiniaAr]

I would like to add to the list Arelat, as in the Kingdom of Arles. Alternatively named the Kingdom of Burgundy, but this might get really confusing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Arles

The last HRE emperor beig crowned King of Arles was Charles IV in Luxembourg in 1365, thus really not too long before the game.

It could be formed by countries either:
With Occitan primary culture: It's fine for Provence, Avignon and Dauphiné. But a bit less troublesome for Auvergne, Berry, Toulouse (and the Knights).
With country tag Savoy, Provence, Avignon, Dauphiné. Those were the major counties constituant of the Kingdom. One of them might take the mantle and recreate the Kingdom for itself.

As formation requirements, the provinces of Provence, Savoy, Lyon and Dauphiné were the major one (I think). Holding 3 of those 4 should allow to recreate the kingdom. Then, it will give claims on those 3 areas: Provence, Savoy and Romandie, as well as the single province of Franche-Comté. Also, it elevates the forming country to kingdom rank.

For Savoy, this would disable the ability to form Sardinia-Piedmont, but then I would argue it's a good thing. Either Savoy goes the Italian route, and likely forms Sardinia-Piedmont and then Italy (as a player of course), or they go the French route and recreate the Kingdom of Arles. That's why I also think that the primary culture should also be changed to Occitan at formation.

Map of claims vs historical map:

 

[MiniaAr]

With the latest dev diary announcing Yuan as a formable tag for 1.21, this is the second country formation mentionned in this topic that got into the game, after the Great Horde/Golden Horde change of 1.19.

The other country formation suggested here are (in the OP):

• Rum: as a country formation for Anatolian beyliks (not the Ottomans) to reform the Seljuk sultanate of Rum
• Rhomania/Latin Empire: a formation modeled on the Kingdom of Jerusalem formation for Agean crusader states (Naxos, Athens, Achea, Corfu?).
• Arelate: a formation to recreate the former Kingdom of Arles/of Burdgundy in southern France (Savoy, Provence, Lyonnais, French Switzerland).
• Rajahstan: an unification formation for Rajput countries in India.
• Hansa: a comeback of this country for a successful merchant republic of Westphalian culture (10 or more trade league members, high trade revenues, absolutism?). Trade league members would get an event similar to the one Dutch minors get when the Netherlands arrives ("join the Republic" I think).

I would like to add another one to the list of suggestions, inspired by the Great Yuan:
Ilkhanate: the Ilkhanate disintegrated in 1335, but it's last successor state, the Jalairids, was only conquered in 1432 by Qara Qoyunlu, thus pretty close to the game start. The idea is to make this formation distinct from Persia ,by doing the following:

• It requires more province, including Sivas, Herat and Bagdad.
• It gives Empire rank instead of Kingdom rank for Persia (Persia has an event to get Empire rank if they're shiite only).
• It gives more claims, including the whole Khorasan region and areas in Irak, Azerbaijan and Eastern Anatolia.
• it gives different ideas, more based on conquest than production for Persia as of now.

This formation would be available for Hordes in the region, namely Timurids, Aq Qoyulu and Qara Qoyunlu.

 

[Calanon]

Whilst I like most of those, I am still very much unsure on the Hansa being a formable. With those specific things though then maybe.

 

[fredrikslicer]

Got bored and decided to write:

Ilkhanate Ideas

Traditions
+20% Cavalry combat ability
+25% Manpower modifier

Ideas

Steppe conquests
Being nomadic by nature has its benefits as we typically only extract tribute from the local populous while at the same time threatening to kill them all if they don't; fearing for your life while being promised you can go about your buissnies if you comply is a compelling offer.
-25% Core-creation cost

Reputation of Hulagu Khan
The forefather of the Ilkhanate house is still vividly remembered fo conquering Iran, razed the assassins stonghold Alamut and razed baghdad and slaughtered the caliph of the Abbasids yes people still remember him and they do so with fear.
-50% Unjustified demands cost

Ill defined faith
The devotion to a particular denomination among the hordes and the Ilkhanate has never been very strict indeed Timur used to dable quite frivously in shiism while being sunni himself following a simular policy should calm our subjects who take their choise of sect more seriously.
+2 Tolerance towards heretics

Gun powder empire
With the rise of the Mongols black powder began spreading west along its trade routes and was eventually popularized by the turks to use in handcannons or rifles we are fortunate enough to have arisen in the midst of this development.
+10% Land fire damage

Pax Iranica
What do mongols and iranianshave in common? Caravan trade! For eons nomads, persians and chinese have prospered from the trade brought via the silk road but times have made this route dangerous we should make sure that our caravans as well as those that enter our lands are guarded and sheltered so to futher future enterprises.
+20% Caravan power

Chinese embassy
Our dedication to upholding the silk road trade has made us a number of friends in the middle kingdom and the Huang of China sends us his envoys with gifts and praise. We have decided that this relationship is worth nurturing and have requested a more permanent embassy be established at our capitol.
-33 Envoy travel time
+1 Diplomatic relations

Islamo-confusian court
The influx of chinese goods, scholars and envoys has led to a popularisation of everything east asian; dragon robes, silk, artwork and women, this has futher led to implementing some of the confusian philosophies in our realm creating a unique mix of mongol, chinese and persian administration.
+10% Institution spread

Ambitions
+1 Legitemacy

 

[withche.07]

The other country formation suggested here are (in the OP):

• Rum: as a country formation for Anatolian beyliks (not the Ottomans) to reform the Seljuk sultanate of Rum

Thanks for this suggestion, I also opened post about this https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...sultanate-of-rum-and-or-seljuk-empire.1008590

It is one of the best formable nation suggestion for Turkish culture cause:
1. It fits historical context, all the beyliks wanted to unite Anatolian Turks, even Ottoman is included (they only lasted dynasty name). It will be great reward for players of Beyliks.
2. Fatih Sultan Mehmet who conquered Constantinople called himself "Kayser-i Rum" (basically Caesar of Rome)

"Kayser (historical), Sezar (modern). Kayser-i-Rûm "Caesar of [Constantinople, the second] Rome", one of many subsidiary titles proclaiming the Ottoman Sultan (main imperial title Padishah) as (Muslim) successor to "Rum" as the Turks called the (Christian) Roman Empire (as Byzantium had continued to call itself), continuing to use the name for part of formerly Byzantine territory (compare the Seljuk Rum-sultanate)"
3. There is only 136 year difference in time.
4. They fought against Mongols as Turks of Anatolia, which adds up flavour to game. They were distant to Arabs.

 

[SantoshKashyap]

Personally I always felt Rajputana was a really poor name for a unification tag. Wouldn't mind something for the Rajputs to form per se though.

Keep up the discussion though, more formables may well be added at some point and threads like these are great reference material when doing so

Rajasthan - Raja-Sthan (Land of Kings)
In ancient days this was called Brahmavarta.

 

[Teutonic_Knight_2000]

Possibility of creating new countries (Kingdom of Sicily, Padania, Lapland, Belgium, Lusatia, Slovenia, California and Texas).

Possibility of establishing the Slavonic Empire by playing a country belonging to cultural groups: West Slavic, East Slavic or South Slavic.

Countries belonging to a group of South Slavic cultures may form Yugoslavia.

 

[Calanon]

Possibility of creating new countries (Kingdom of Sicily, Padania, Lapland, Belgium, Lusatia, Slovenia, California and Texas).

Possibility of establishing the Slavonic Empire by playing a country belonging to cultural groups: West Slavic, East Slavic or South Slavic.

Countries belonging to a group of South Slavic cultures may form Yugoslavia.

Two Sicilies might possibly be good, 'Lapland' already exists as Sápmi. Lusatia should exist but not as a formable, Slovenia should exist as Carniola. California and Texas, yeah. Belgium would be good to have from a disaster. Padania... why?

Not really fond of the idea of a pan-Slavic Empire as a formable, or Yugoslavia.

 

[Teutonic_Knight_2000]

Two Sicilies might possibly be good, 'Lapland' already exists as Sápmi. Lusatia should exist but not as a formable, Slovenia should exist as Carniola. California and Texas, yeah. Belgium would be good to have from a disaster. Padania... why?

Not really fond of the idea of a pan-Slavic Empire as a formable, or Yugoslavia.

Lusatia would make sense (a new Lusatian culture would be created which belongs to the group of West Slavic cultures). It would claim to several provinces east of the Elbe. Its main purpose would be to regain its old lands, and change their culture from the Saxon to the Lusatian. It would be a vassal of Czech, and would consist of two provinces - Oberlausitz (Hornja Lužica) and Niederlausitz (Dolna Lužyca).

Carniola is cool, but its culture would be Slovenian (South Slavic) culture. It would have perpetual claims to the three provinces of Kraina, Görz and Kärnten.

Belgium why your do not fit?

Padania - it would be cool if you could create some North-Italian country


Yugoslavia would have been a united southern Slavic state. Countries belonging to a group of South-Slavic cultures could have created it. It would be a big country to defend against the expansion of the Ottomans.

The Slavic Empire would be a military, economic and economic power. All Slavic cultures would be accepted, and attention - not changeable.

If you do not like pan-Slavicism then I will add:
Iberian Empire - united Spain and Portugal
Germanic Empire - united countries of Germanic cultures
Roman Empire - Italy and Greece

 

[Teutonic_Knight_2000]

I will add that Slovakia is a Slavic country and should belong to the West Slavonic group. Same as Pomerania. It has a Slavonic origin, and was only germanize in the 17-18th century. Albania is not a Slavic country.

 

[Matihood1]

I will add that Slovakia is a Slavic country and should belong to the West Slavic group. Same as pomeremia. It has a Slavonic origin, and was only Germanized in the 17-18th century. Albania is not a Slavic country.

We already have Slovakia as Nitra. There's absolutely no reason to make a new tag just to put a modern country name into the game.

edit: I thought you wanted to put Slovakia as a separate country. My mistake.

 

[Santos Valorion]

I wish to request that the Chagatai Khanante we have in game be come the Moghulistan Khanante, and Chagatai Khanante become a new formable nation. Oh and the man who created the Timurd empire was trying to recreate the Mongol empire, so the Timurds being able to form the Ilkhanate is not unreasonable.

 

[Teutonic_Knight_2000]

Matihood1

Well, you got the idea what I mean. Nitra fits me, but her membership in Carpathian cultural group is no longer. Personally I prefer the old names of countries.

PS: Are you a Pole?

 

[Matihood1]

Matihood1

Well, you got the idea what I mean. Nitra fits me, but her membership in Carpathian cultural group is no longer. Personally I prefer the old names of countries.

PS: Are you a Pole?

Yes, I am. And I think moving Slovak culture to the West Slavic group is a perfectly fine idea. With the promoted cultures mechanic, Hungary can simply start with Slovak culture being accepted, there's no need to make arbitrary cultural divisions.

 

[Teutonic_Knight_2000]

We will now talk in Polish, because I'm not the best in English

 

[Matihood1]

We will now talk in Polish, because I'm not the best in English

Nah. Have respect to the rest of the people reading this thread. Besides, I think speaking any other language than English is against the rules anyway.

 

[Teutonic_Knight_2000]

You are right, as if to correct me.

 

[Teutonic_Knight_2000]

Think that all cultures should be in line with reality. To as to add some culture, It should be added according to history. The game lacks many cultures that existed and still exist. For example, Lusatian culture (This culture has existing until today, but it is almost extinct culture, but in times that are in EU4, these lands have not been Germanizing. It is like as in Pomeranian culture. This culture survived only on Kashubia.)