No physical release

[unmerged(193360)]

well, more likely than not, he didn't mean to come off that way, but he most certainly did. That comment wasn't aimed at the big game distributors, it was aimed at the fans.

I would say that if you consistently buy these games from the bargain bin, you can't call yourself a fan.

If you want to support these games and see more of them made, buy full price and/or digital. If you can't afford full price, wait for a steam/gamersgate sale rather than scouring the bargain bins.

 

[unmerged(1823)]

The difference between physical and digital is insane.. With all bribes you need for shelfspace, and all return-guarantees, if you dont sell 90% of the printed for full price its a loss.

And even then, you get like 25% of what a digital copy would cost.

We sell similar amount today as 5 years ago, but now we can afford 18 month cycles and QA.

Today physical revenue is like less than a percent, so it just doesnt make financial sense.

 

[Jolt]

Bro, bro, even when the physical releases are just big boxes containing a Steam code, no popular game manages to stay off of the Torrent circuit for more than a week after launch.

I remember reading a Miles Jacobson (Football Manager Lead Dev or something to that effect) post somewhere, saying that FM 2012 had a great sales boost since it took a significant time from official release to the game being cracked.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

I don't mind the move to Digital only distribution (though for those who want it you could do print on demand. Or alternatively have physical copies that are for collectors, with nice goodies included).

I'd like it Paradox continues to go through a wide variety of distribution channels though. Steam might be great now, but there's no guarantee it will continue to be. We don't want Steam to become another Itunes, with it's monopolistic power able to force publishers and developers to do exactly as they like.

I personally use Gamersgate, though I'd switch to steam if I had to, but there are aspects of Steam I simply don't like, and I wouldn't like the idea of Steam becoming a monopoly.

 

[Pitt The Elder]

They've already made their money once the game is out of their hands (correct me if I'm wrong).

You're wrong. Retailers aren't placing wholesale orders and then absorbing the risk of whether the product sells. It's more like they're leasing shelf space and staff.

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

You're wrong. Retailers aren't placing wholesale orders and then absorbing the risk of whether the product sells. It's more like they're leasing shelf space and staff.

It gets really cut-throat in grocery stores (which work in a similar way).

 

[Seli]

The difference between physical and digital is insane.. With all bribes you need for shelfspace, and all return-guarantees, if you dont sell 90% of the printed for full price its a loss.

And even then, you get like 25% of what a digital copy would cost.

We sell similar amount today as 5 years ago, but now we can afford 18 month cycles and QA.

Today physical revenue is like less than a percent, so it just doesnt make financial sense.

That makes the talk Shams was tweeting about earlier today even stranger.

 

[Pitt The Elder]

It gets really cut-throat in grocery stores (which work in a similar way).

Yeah, I worked in one for a few years, and happened to be around for a few of those discussions. Very odd and counter intuitive market structure.

 

[fenwayb]

You're wrong. Retailers aren't placing wholesale orders and then absorbing the risk of whether the product sells. It's more like they're leasing shelf space and staff.

Then my first post would be even more valid. Having the product sold is always going to be better than someone pirating it, even if only because pirating fosters a bad environment.


and to the person who said you can't call yourself a fan if you buy discount, I don't think it's really fair of you to decide who can call themselves a fan and who can't. For the most part, I not only buy full price but pre-order, however I see no reason why someone who buys it on discount (especially if that's the only way they *can* buy it) can't be considered a fan.

 

[Secret Master]

If it means anything, here in the automotive industry, we are planning that starting in 2017 (which is next cycle for who we supply to) cars will no longer be shipped with CD players, instead only have a USB jack. So it isn't just games that are changing. And this is the automotive industry, which is pretty resistant to change.

Really? My Fiesta has a USB port now and will play a dozen different music file formats. I love SYNC.

It has a CD player, but I've never used it and won't need to do so. I don't even use the damn radio since I can store hundreds of songs on a crappy USB.

I just built a new computer. I bought a Blue Ray Drive because I thought it was cool. Used it one time to install a hard copy of Windows, the rest of the time it's basically a $150 blue light.

I use my Blue Ray Drive all the time.... to play movies for Rifftrax.

The difference between physical and digital is insane.. With all bribes you need for shelfspace, and all return-guarantees, if you dont sell 90% of the printed for full price its a loss.

And even then, you get like 25% of what a digital copy would cost.

We sell similar amount today as 5 years ago, but now we can afford 18 month cycles and QA.

Today physical revenue is like less than a percent, so it just doesnt make financial sense.

Well, it sure isn't 2001 anymore. I remember seeing Europa Universalis in a store and thinking "Huh, what the Hell is this?"

Of course, I didn't buy it the first time I saw it either, since I was and still am a firm believer in getting reviews before making a purchase.

 

[wolfing]

It's been about 3 years since I bought a boxed copy of any game. Digital has just too many advantages over boxed

 

[unmerged(475128)]

Actually, I believe the 5% is just non-steam sales.

You are completely wrong.

 

[s1234567890m]

You are completely wrong.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...me-as-well&p=14209252&highlight=#post14209252

are you sure about that...

 

[alanschu]

You really think I'd insist on calling it what it is - theft - rather than using the meaningles euphemism of piracy if I didn't underdstand that piracy is bad?
But piracy (theft actually) and cutting loses is not the same.

And don't even get me started on the lie that games sold under 10 euro don't pay for themselves. Most games where I live sell under 10 euro. Physical copies.

What you suggested requires them to actually MAKE the boxed copy, however. If they decide to not make any box copy at all, the cost to Paradox is $0. So if someone pirates it, yes they don't gain a sell, but Paradox didn't make anything.

Now, if you suggest that Paradox goes and makes a new box for $15 and then sells it for $10, they have only lost $5. This is less useful unless you think that doing this will recoup the costs with other, future sales.

 

[Eh up me duck]

This PC doesn't even have a working CD drive. Never has. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that PI isn't releasing physical disks.

 

[airpirate]

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...me-as-well&p=14209252&highlight=#post14209252

are you sure about that...

Thanks for covering for me there .

Anyway, I was still technically talking out of my ass, as the 5% number is Gamersgate sales. When counting the less than 1% physical sales and other digital distributors, Steam probably makes up something like 93%-90% of sales. Of course I'm guesstimating, maybe there's a massive 20% of sales from Impulse or something that no one knows about .

 

[flame7926]

Thanks for covering for me there .

Anyway, I was still technically talking out of my ass, as the 5% number is Gamersgate sales. When counting the less than 1% physical sales and other digital distributors, Steam probably makes up something like 93%-90% of sales. Of course I'm guesstimating, maybe there's a massive 20% of sales from Impulse or something that no one knows about .

There was another that said he said specifically that Steam was 5%.

 

[Franconian]

No, that was GG:

Making multiple versions of a game costs money.. If one version also provide you with lots of development benefits, as steam workshop does, then you either have to sell a crippled version to others, or spend a lot of extra money on a tiny fraction of customers.

GG used to be 25% of our games... now its less than 5% and Steam keeps increasing.

 

[pevergreen]

What you suggested requires them to actually MAKE the boxed copy, however. If they decide to not make any box copy at all, the cost to Paradox is $0. So if someone pirates it, yes they don't gain a sell, but Paradox didn't make anything.

Now, if you suggest that Paradox goes and makes a new box for $15 and then sells it for $10, they have only lost $5. This is less useful unless you think that doing this will recoup the costs with other, future sales.

Piracy can lead to sales though...

Look how many games I have from Paradox.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

Piracy can lead to sales though...

Look how many games I have from Paradox.

Yes, I must confess that the first PDox games I played were pirated. But I buy what I like so...