OOB

[MadUrb]

So what do you suggest?
What name should we use?

Bodens Trupper i suppose if you have one division stationed in the north

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

OK, and what brigade?

Artillery, heavy weapons or engineer?

 

[MadUrb]

OK, and what brigade?

Artillery, heavy weapons or engineer?

Since I have never played TGW, yes, shame on me I do not know how you have structured your units. Bodens Trupper had one infantry regiment, one artillery batallion (in 1914), regiment in 1919), and one engineer corps (not as in a Army Corps, but a unit less than regiment, but more than batallion size, kår in swedish).

The artillery unit was originally only fortress artillery and did not contain any mobile units. The infantry was there to protect the fortresses around the city of Boden and the engineer unit to both build and maintain the fortresses.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

What´s biggest, a regiment or a corps?



Regarding brigades:

Engineers and artillery are the same as in vanilla HOI, heavy weapons are the beefed up, macho turn-into-dust weapons (that have worse offensive stats then artillery).

 

[Allenby]

What´s biggest, a regiment or a corps?

A regiment consists of two battalions or more. A corps consists of two divisions or more - usually about 50,000 men.

OK, and what brigade?

Artillery, heavy weapons or engineer?

It will be called 'Bodens Trupper', have a strength of 25 and will have no attached brigades.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

It will be called 'Bodens Trupper', have a strength of 25 and will have no attached brigades.

Hey, no need to get mad at me, just beeing creative, and there were negineers and artillery staioned there...

 

[Allenby]

Hey, no need to get mad at me, just beeing creative, and there were negineers and artillery staioned there...

I'm not getting mad, I'm just stating in a plain and unremarkable way what the unit will be like.

And although it had engineers and artillery, it didn't have enough to justify an attachment.

 

[Allenby]

Here it is:

    landunit = { 
        id = { type = 12111 id = 13 } 
        name = "Bodens Trupper" 
        location = 682
        division = { 
            id = { type = 12111 id = 14 } 
            name = "Bodens Trupper" 
            strength = 25 
            type = infantry 
        } 
    }

I've put it in the sweden.inc files for the January and August 1914 scenarios

 

[unmerged(28058)]

I dunno if this has already been brought up, but the French Territorial Reserves are missing from the game.

According to Avalon Hill's August 1914 order of battle for France:

Les Forces des l’Interieur
81. Territorial Infanterie Division
82. Territorial Infanterie Division
83. Territorial Infanterie Division
84. Territorial Infanterie Division
85. Territorial Infanterie Division
86. Territorial Infanterie Division
87. Territorial Infanterie Division
88. Territorial Infanterie Division
89. Territorial Infanterie Division
90. Territorial Infanterie Division
91. Territorial Infanterie Division
92. Territorial Infanterie Division

Most of these formations were around Paris, in Southern France or stationed in Normandy. All were 2nd line formations and mostly trained recruits for frontline service. However during the campaign they were thrown into the battles at the Marne and the subsequent race to the sea, performly averagely but providing that needed manpower for France to withstand the German onslaught.

You are also missing the Fortress Units.

Reserves Mobiles des Fortresses
Belfort – 57. Reserve Infanterie Division
Epinal – 71. Reserve Infanterie Division
Toul – 73. Reserve Infanterie Division
Verdun – 72. Reserve Infanterie Division
Chalons – 67. Reserve Infanterie Division

I do not know much about these units, I would think they were static units, but at the same time the garrisons of Verdun and Toul were in frontline fighting during the 1914 and 1916 German offensives.

I know you have French troops in North Africa, but I don't think they are correctly organized. Avalon Hill's OOB (they got their OOBs from national archives, so I'm pretty sure they are correct) says French garrisons and colonial troops in Africa were consolidated when the war began into an Armee de Nord Afrique, Army of North Africa under General Lyuatey.

Armee de Nord Afrique
Commanded by General Lyuatey
37. Infanterie Division
38. Infanterie Division
45. Infanterie Division
Moorish Infanterie Division
Moorish Infanterie Brigade
Spahis Cavalry Brigade

Some other minor formations that you left out but aren't necessarily needed are:

Chasseur Brigade (includin. the French Blue Devils, etc)
1. Fusilier Marin Brigade (Fusilier Marines, a hastily organized formation that fought with the BEF I believe)

I don't know if you already agreed not to include this or decided not to for not wanting to clutter France with unbalancing numbers. Because unlike in real life the French AI will throw them all in the frontline and even though they may be generally useless it could unhistorically handicap German efforts.

 

[Allenby]

Are you saying that France's mobilisation events don't cover these divisions?

 

[StephenT]

The original French mobilisation event covered 25 infantry divisions (the 51st to 75th inclusive) and 11 militia divisions (the 81st-89th, 91st-92nd) plus three Guards/Colonial divisions (Maroc, 2nd, 3rd Colonial). According to Ellis & Cox, the 90th Division never became active and was broken up soon after it formed. All the other divisions you list are therefore already accounted for.

Having said that, the current version of the French mobilisation events has 12 militia divisions (one extra), 28 infantry divisions (3 extra) and no Guards divisions (3 fewer), including no units starting in North Africa. I'm not sure what research these quanities were based on...

 

[unmerged(28058)]

As for the mobilization events, I've never really played through as france, only Russia/Ottoman/Austria/Britian/Bulgaria/Germany. However the fortress units should already be emplaced, they were static fortress units, always in exsistance.

The territorial divisions I guess you have covered, but the African perhaps should be renamed?

Also will you be including the infamous Blue Devils or Morrocan Spahis?

I think taht with any nation, elite units smaller than divisions should be included just cause they are elite formations. Like Austria's crack 88. Landesshützen-Brigaden and the French Spahis units. That's just me though.

 

[StephenT]

The 57th, 67th and 71st-73rd divisions are called "réserves mobiles" which implies that they weren't the actual fortress garrisons - they were simply attached to the fortresses for command and supply purposes. As reserve units, they didn't exist prior to mobilisation. Doubtless they would have had their heavy equipment stored ready in the fortresses, but the actual troops would have been going about their civilian occupations in January 1914.

In Morocco the French had six regiments of troops, comprising 18 battalions (a standard division had 12 battalions), and one squadron of spahis - not a full brigade - plus some miscellaneous garrison units. In TGW they've all been combined together into two divisions.

The basic unit size in HoI is the division, so we haven't included smaller units separately (with the main exception being colonial garrisons). However, I looked up the Blue Devils you mentioned, and it does seem that France had about a division's worth of mountain-trained troops in 1914. Unfortunately, they were evenly distributed between three separate divisions, 27-29th, making up no more than a third of the strength of each! Still, for the sake of the mod I suggest changing the 27e Division d'Infanterie (part of the XIVe Corps d'Armée in province 928 (Lyons) ) to type = bergsjaeger, and renaming the unit "27e Division (Chasseurs Alpins)".

If the Fusiliers Marins were 'hastily organised' presumably they didn't exist in January 1914, nor in the mobilisation plans, and were built by France out of their monthly manpower gains?

Incidentally, this site probably has more detail than you ever wanted to know about the French OOB in August 1914.

 

[unmerged(28058)]

I knew that the site had a Russian 1914 OOB on it, but I didn't realize there was also a French one!

I played through a game as France, the war was over in November 1915 and I was playing hard/furious...

During the entire campaign Paris was only threatened once, when Hindenburg punched through Nancy with 21 divisions, I easily hacked off Hindenburg who was brushing aside my hastily formed militia-belgian regular forces infront of Paris by attacking Nancy. After a few tought battles Hindenburg's forces were annhilated and then the entire German front collasped. I've found that pushing into Belgium ealier you can shorten your line considerbly, not forcing you to cover all of northern france. Then just keeping pressure on the Germans leads the A-H to really suffer from the Russians, since your tieing down most of the German troops. Then the Russians begin sapping German strength and well in May I launched a massive offensive and swept into Koln, Saarbrucken, Alsace-Lorraine. I think its too easy to win as France, and I think I know the reason why, but I dunno if you guys would be to keen on implementing it.

The main reason the French didn't believe the Germans could pull off the Schleiffen Plan and that they could easily take Alsace-Lorraine was because of how the French used their army and expected the Germans to do the same. The French looked at the German Army and saw 21 Army Corps, each have a territorial responsibility, that was the German peacetime Army. During mobilization those 21 peacetime corps were fleshed out into regular formations, but Germany also formed about 25-30 reserve divisions. Germany called them Reserve divisions, France also had reserve divisions, but they were second line formations, not really used in heavy combat but rather in quiet sectors and as Army reserves, etc. The German Reserve divisions were made up mostly of the same mobilization troops as the regular peacetime divisions, and wer eof the same quality. Essentially the French didn't think Germany's 15-20 reserve divisions stationed in the west would be frontline formations, but they were. This left the French completely with their pants down and also showed their lack of strategical insight, failing to train and equip their reserve divisions in 1914 at the same level of the Germans.

That is the main reason why the French were so confident, the main reason they thought Plan 17 could work, but of course we know it didn't. The French reserve divisions were later on more made into German style, almost of the same quality and equipment as regular formations. Perhaps changing those French reserve divisions to militia could reflect not so much the organizational or equipmental aspects of French reserve divisions, but rather their strategical employment and often, training levels. But at the same token, that could leave France packed with militia units and leave France with its pants down. I dunno, what do you guys think?

 

[unmerged(28058)]

}
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1010 }
name = "II. Landwehrkorps"
location = 575
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1011 }
name = "9. /43. Landwehrbrigaden"
strength = 100
type = militia
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1012 }
name = "45. /53. Landwehrbrigaden"
strength = 100
type = militia
model = 1
}
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1013 }
name = "I. Landwehrkorps"
location = 582
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1014 }
name = "33. /34. Landwehrbrigaden"
strength = 100
type = militia
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1015 }
name = "37. /38. Landwehrbrigaden"
strength = 100
type = militia
model = 1
}
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1016 }
name = "Königsburg Garrison"
location = 650
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1017 }
name = "35. Festung-Reserveinf.div."
strength = 100
type = infantry
}
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1018 }
name = "Strasburg Garrison"
location = 555
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1019 }
name = "30. Festung-Reserveinf.div."
strength = 100
type = infantry
}
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1020 }
name = "Metz Garrison"
location = 555
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 2021 }
name = "33. Festung-Reserveinf.div."
strength = 100
type = infantry

I added these troops to the German OOB and edited these formations:

}
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 129 }
name = "Deckungstruppen am Oberrhein"
location = 542
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 130 }
name = "1. /2. Bay. /55. Landw.Brig."
strength = 100
type = militia
model = 1

I also changed all the brigades to brigaden, because brigaden is german plural for brigade.

The 8. Armee is still a pit confusing, apparently there is an unnamed Landwehr Kommand in Silesia, some of the brigades you have under 8. Armeetruppen are apart of their Landwehr Kommando, but others are not. The two Landwehr Korps are historical ones, the I. Landwehr Corps serving under von Boehm under 'Nord Armee', and the II. Landwehr Corps serving under Kronprinz Wilhelm under '5. Armee'. The 3 Festung-Reserveninfanteriedivision are a sub-category of Reservedivisionen, which are fully active troops, but Festung, or Fortress, implies static, so perhaps they should be militia?

Anyway,
30. Festung-Reserveninfanteriedivision was in Stasburg
33. Festung-Reserveninfanteriedivision was in Metz
35. Festung-Reserveninfanteriedivision was in Königsburg

You can choose to add these permamently or not, but those are some additional formations you left out.

 

[unmerged(28058)]

German Army Mobilization

I recently got the new 1.05 update and I have to say, I love it, the new interface is marvelous and the new pics and additional events and bug fixes make it worth playing for hours upon hours. Thanks alot for the great work. However, playing as Germany I've noticed that it seems to be handicapped in its land effort, because its mobilization is missing. I brought this up awhile ago in the OOB thread, but it was ignored, so I'm going to bring it up again and then post some additional information.

I'd at least like a response to this. Thanks.

}
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1010 }
name = "II. Landwehrkorps"
location = 575
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1011 }
name = "9. /43. Landwehrbrigaden"
strength = 100
type = militia
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1012 }
name = "45. /53. Landwehrbrigaden"
strength = 100
type = militia
model = 1
}
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1013 }
name = "I. Landwehrkorps"
location = 582
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1014 }
name = "33. /34. Landwehrbrigaden"
strength = 100
type = militia
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1015 }
name = "37. /38. Landwehrbrigaden"
strength = 100
type = militia
model = 1
}
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1016 }
name = "Königsburg Garrison"
location = 650
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1017 }
name = "35. Festung-Reserveinf.div."
strength = 100
type = infantry
}
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1018 }
name = "Strasburg Garrison"
location = 555
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1019 }
name = "30. Festung-Reserveinf.div."
strength = 100
type = infantry
}
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 1020 }
name = "Metz Garrison"
location = 555
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 2021 }
name = "33. Festung-Reserveinf.div."
strength = 100
type = infantry

I added these troops to the German OOB and edited these formations:

}
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 129 }
name = "Deckungstruppen am Oberrhein"
location = 542
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 130 }
name = "1. /2. Bay. /55. Landw.Brig."
strength = 100
type = militia
model = 1

I also changed all the brigades to brigaden, because brigaden is german plural for brigade.

The 8. Armee is still a pit confusing, apparently there is an unnamed Landwehr Kommand in Silesia, some of the brigades you have under 8. Armeetruppen are apart of their Landwehr Kommando, but others are not. The two Landwehr Korps are historical ones, the I. Landwehr Corps serving under von Boehm under 'Nord Armee', and the II. Landwehr Corps serving under Kronprinz Wilhelm under '5. Armee'. The 3 Festung-Reserveninfanteriedivision are a sub-category of Reservedivisionen, which are fully active troops, but Festung, or Fortress, implies static, so perhaps they should be militia?

Anyway,
30. Festung-Reserveninfanteriedivision was in Stasburg
33. Festung-Reserveninfanteriedivision was in Metz
35. Festung-Reserveninfanteriedivision was in Königsburg

You can choose to add these permamently or not, but those are some additional formations you left out.

This is quoted from the OOB thread, and as you can see I added alot of Landwehr units missing and changed around your Nordrhein troops to what they really were, Covering Troops on the Upper Rhine, and according to the latin prefix, Upper is south and Lower North. Plus there is a Bavarian Landwehr brigade and all the Bavarians were in the south. The Deckungstruppen am Oberrhein were attached to Von Heeringen's 7. Armee and they covered the southern Vosage mountains and Strasburg.

There are other Landwehr brigade in exsistance, like I stated above, most in Silesia and covering the exposed German eastern border. You are also missing the 2 Landwehr Corps, 1 of which fought in the 1914 drive towards Verdun and the other guarded the Northern German Coast and then was transferred to the Eastern Front. These forces should either already be present or added by a Landwehr mobilization event.

I'd also like to bring up the topic of the Germany Secondary Mobilization Wave, if both the French and Russians get multiple waves of Mobilization, why does Germany not get its August 25, 1914 Secondary Mobilization? These were hte forces that were added to the German Armies during 1914:

August 25th 1914 Additions
22. Reserven Korps
23. Reserven Korps
24. Reserven Korps
25. Reserven Korps
26. Reserven Korps
27. Reserven Korps
28. Reserven Korps
29. Reserven Korps
30. Reserven Korps

December 15th 1914 Additions
15. Reserven Korps
41. Reserven Korps
2. Bayern Reserven Korps

The 1st Wave Mobilization Reserve Corps formed during July were:
1.
2.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
12. (Saxon)
14.
18.
1. (Bavarian)

All having the designation 'Reservenkorps'.

How come France and Russia get their mobilization secondary and tertiary waves, but Germany doesn't even get its Landwehr? I'd say the Germans just got short-handed, and in the game it can be felt, since the Russians are far more active in the East than historical. Even at this though, its relatively easy to push France back to the gates of Paris, winter and then easily take Paris and France generally collaspes after that. However, I almost always manage to lose Prussia to Ivan's aggression. Maybe France should be beefed up with some extra techs to make it a bit more formidable. But Regardless, German players in the game shouldn't be punished by being denied historical troops to make France even be able to survive 1914.

So why is Germany missing the 270,000 to 350,000 troops it mobilized during the later parts of 1914? As Germany its impossible to raise those formations and still be able to keep your field formations at reasonable strength. I can see maybe a Landwehr, August 25th and December 15th Mobilizations could be made into events, and each one give a small manpower and/or dissent hit.

So, what do you think?

I have to say, just adding all those useless Landwehr help alot, in the campaigns, if anything you can disband them for more manpower for your regular ranks.

I'd at least like a reponse to this, this time around.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

Gzav, OOBs...


Please...

 

[unmerged(28058)]

Last time I posted there it was ignored.

Maybe if you responded to it, I wouldn't have made a new thread.

 

[Gwalcmai]

I think the reason Germany doesn't have a mobilization event is that they already are at the post-mobilization status on the start date...

 

[Allenby]

Actually, the lad's got a point. This site seems to be rather useful and does demonstrate that there are at least a few holes.

Thus, the German Army can now be strengthened to some degree, which ought to give it a little extra fight in the August 1914 scenario, at least.

Faaip de Oiad, concerning the mobilisation of Landwehr Brigades, can you reveal your sources?