Patch Notes for 1.0.12f1 hotfix - Steam & Microsoft Store

[Baalzamon85]

I think you are confusing two different aspects. Most games are GPU bottlenecked, and the CPU can support this up to a certain extent. All benchmarks of games I've seen measure the FPS you can get with different CPUs and yes, for that there is a limit of CPU cores that make sense. For many games this is between 6-8 CPU cores.

For CS2 it is different. The question here is not about "how much FPS", the question is "how many agents can you simulate" to have a still running simulation. If your city gets larger, the simulation load is what determines how big the city can become. This is very different from the average game where the simulation load usually stays around the same for the whole game. For CS2, those simulation calculations can be spread out to all available computing power, i.e. to all available CPU cores. So the size of a manageable city with your PC scales with the amount of cores you have. This also applies to E-cores.

I guess there is also a limit of cores where the overhead eats up the benefit of additional cores, but from what I've seen this is certainly not around 8 cores but probably not lower than 32 cores with CS2.

I'm not confused, I said over and over that CS2 will be much more likely GPU bottlenecked than CPU bottlenecked at any decent graphic settings.

What you are now saying is the game creates an artificial limit on the number of agents you can have based on number of threads available. That is a strong assertion that requires proof, only thing I remember CO writing is that simulation can use any number of cores. That's not the same thing.

 

[tamsi99]

No, absolutely none of that I have written. Please read my posting again.

And again, you are confusing what is limiting currently resolution and FPS (currently GPU), and what is finally limiting a reasonable gameplay in large cities (CPU). I never talked about "artificial limits per thread".

 

[Artax Nighteven]

Who tested it? The goal is to not spread out workload on more cores than you need ,it's to get a performance uplift. Ghz and cache has been the king sofar since games are ususally hardlocked by a main thread and 8+ cores being overkill. I would like to see actual scalable proof of performance increase versus a 7800x3d for example.

In this game 7950x beat the 7800x3d BY A LOT (only in this game, as i said, i never saw a game scaling like this on a cpu)

The xeon was an old one, like at 2.4 ghz, still managing to be a loooot playable, it was utilizing all 64 cores.

There are the screens, it's in this forum, i THINK in the bug section, but i can't remember the exact post.

 

[Artax Nighteven]

I'm not confused, I said over and over that CS2 will be much more likely GPU bottlenecked than CPU bottlenecked at any decent graphic settings.

What you are now saying is the game creates an artificial limit on the number of agents you can have based on number of threads available. That is a strong assertion that requires proof, only thing I remember CO writing is that simulation can use any number of cores. That's not the same thing.

Bro, i'm playing at 4k with a 3090 TI, with 250k people i'm totally CPU bottleneck, with a 11900k (i know it's a shit cpu, but was good for 200 euro when 12900k comed out ahah) It's an 8 core and it's pretty clear the biggest limitation it have in this game, i'm totally fine in 99% of other games with 15-20% usage...
This game has almost the same temps as cinebench....

It's not creating an artificial limit, it's just that it use everything it uses to run this game, that's why i'm TOO curius too see it on a newer threadripper and see how it scales IF it scales, but it cost too much ahahahahahahah

 

[Roseah]

But what exactly? I've listened to the ad dozens of times and still can't find anything offensive.

Spaz is a shortened term of the word spastic which is an extremely derogatory term for someone who has mental and/or physical disabilities. Terms like "acting like a spaz" to mean being ditzy or clumsy originally refers to people who would act in an odd or "not normal" way because of their disabilit. It's doubly offensive because of the actual way the ad sounded with glitchy electric music that can sound like someone having a seizure. The term has been around for so long now that not that many people know the original meaning of the word and just say it to mean they're being silly, ditzy, panicked, all sorts of things that aren't "normal" behaviour. So yeah I can see why people would be offended.

 

[TheBeardBuilds]

Xbox problem is not at Paradox/CO side, but rather an issue at how they deal with these things (and DLCs, etc...)

thats simply not true, other publishers are quite able to release patches for the Gamepass versions AT THE SAME TIME as Steam.


this IS clearly a Paradox/CO issue and putting it on Xbox does nothing to get CO to do their part...its also not true that its Xboxes fault

 

[TenSee_]

Nice, but I beg of you to add an option to disable the "talk show" or "news" section of the radio as they are extremely repetetive and annoying

You can. There’s and ‚Ads‘ toggle In the bottom right I think

 

[Baalzamon85]

No, absolutely none of that I have written. Please read my posting again.

And again, you are confusing what is limiting currently resolution and FPS (currently GPU), and what is finally limiting a reasonable gameplay in large cities (CPU). I never talked about "artificial limits per thread".

Do you mean simulation speed? Then show my proof, jesus christ , I have never come across so much bro science and trust me bros logic.

 

[tamsi99]

Do you mean simulation speed? Then show my proof, jesus christ , I have never come across so much bro science and trust me bros logic.

Yes, I am talking about simulation speed, as I have mentioned previously already:

For CS2 it is different. The question here is not about "how much FPS", the question is "how many agents can you simulate" to have a still running simulation. If your city gets larger, the simulation load is what determines how big the city can become.

You can find the proof yourself. First of all, look at what your CPU is doing while your city grows. And there are lots of benchmarks and user feedbacks around that clearly show that with a faster CPU with more CPU cores you hit the CPU bottleneck at a much larger population than with slower CPUs. Look at the posting of Dwigit some hours ago, for example. It is all about calculation power of your CPU. If you consider that to be "bro science" then, well, I leave you in your world of ignoring facts. This is all I will say about this topic, I'm out of this rather strange discussion now. If you have a learning mindset, inform yourself, no need to believe anything I personally write, the facts are all available for the ones who want to know.

 

[Dan Shepherd]

• Removed Spasm radio ad (due to offensive content)

Disappointing you caved to 2 people out there with a political agenda. Hey, I need 1 more person to object to having to pay for your game. If 1 more person objects, it'll be free from now on.

However woke caving aside, it's an excellent game and you should be proud.

Outside of the US this is very offensive term for disabled people - it makes sense for them to not have to play a relaxing game and inadvertently hear a insult they grew up with hurled at them at the same time.

 

[Baalzamon85]

Yes, I am talking about simulation speed, as I have mentioned previously already:


You can find the proof yourself. First of all, look at what your CPU is doing while your city grows. And there are lots of benchmarks and user feedbacks around that clearly show that with a faster CPU with more CPU cores you hit the CPU bottleneck at a much larger population than with slower CPUs. Look at the posting of Dwigit some hours ago, for example. It is all about calculation power of your CPU. If you consider that to be "bro science" then, well, I leave you in your world of ignoring facts. This is all I will say about this topic, I'm out of this rather strange discussion now. If you have a learning mindset, inform yourself, no need to believe anything I personally write, the facts are all available for the ones who want to know.

I'm not ignoring facts, I'm looking for facts, I don't understand why this isn't getting through.. preferably from reputable sources that know what they are talking about. I'm a PC enthusiast and spend way too much time looking at graphs from Gamer's Nexus and Hardware Unboxed, if you say this game has this unique scaling performance past 8 cores I'm very much interested in seeing it, but i'm not taking your word for it. Don't get me wrong , I hope there is scaling but I've seen a hundreds games tested and none of them have this charasteristic to any noticble degree. Someone mentioned total war troy, but I couldn't find a single benchmark backing up that claim only a PR article from CA claiming that can now utilize all cores, which again is totally separate thing. I'll guess I'll look for this "Dwigit" and check his methodology.

 

[Dwigit]

Thank you so much for sharing all this insight, very interesting. It looks like despite running into the CPU bottleneck, it does not completely kill the visualization, i.e. still a certain performance / FPS is maintained. This is great. As far as I know and have experienced, in CS1 your framerates go down the drain if you run into the CPU / single-core bottleneck. With CS2, when reaching the bottleneck, it seems to "just" slow down the simulation because there's only so much that can be calculated per second, but it does not go to one-digit FPS (at least if your GPU is not a bottleneck as well).

Is it still playable at that simulation speed? I guess cars, etc. drive slower now, or how does it handle that?
Given my current CPU i7-12700K, I guess I roughly reach the same state with around half of that population (i.e. around 250-300k pop).

The game is definitely slower than before but at least I get no stutters. Everything just moves slowly and very playable.

I did notice some FPS drops after 5-6 hours of gameplay but it's always resolved after restarting the game.

 

[Switch0r]

Very important updates! When eventually the game gets out of early access i will buy it

 

[Artax Nighteven]

I'm not ignoring facts, I'm looking for facts, I don't understand why this isn't getting through.. preferably from reputable sources that know what they are talking about. I'm a PC enthusiast and spend way too much time looking at graphs from Gamer's Nexus and Hardware Unboxed, if you say this game has this unique scaling performance past 8 cores I'm very much interested in seeing it, but i'm not taking your word for it. Don't get me wrong , I hope there is scaling but I've seen a hundreds games tested and none of them have this charasteristic to any noticble degree. Someone mentioned total war troy, but I couldn't find a single benchmark backing up that claim only a PR article from CA claiming that can now utilize all cores, which again is totally separate thing. I'll guess I'll look for this "Dwigit" and check his methodology.

There are no benchmark, expecially with a xeon or a threadripper, who do you think will do it? Only a server owner who loves the game...
the game is new, and we on the forum are at 90% the ones testing things around, we are all entusiast.

I alredy said were to find the proof, you just have to loock for the topic in the bug section, there are SCREENS of the cpu using 32 CORES.

And you can find MULTIPLY screen of people with the 7950x playing in cities of 600-700k people, guess why?? It has 16 cores........

This game is ALMOST like cinebench, 10-15c 50-70 watt less, but it don't seems to go upper than this even with more people, the game just go slower


Here, i found one.
There is a 13900k utilizing all threads. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/detailed-cpu-usage-stats.1606688/#post-29235601, and it's still not at the limit, it will go up.

 

[Artax Nighteven]

The game is definitely slower than before but at least I get no stutters. Everything just moves slowly and very playable.

I did notice some FPS drops after 5-6 hours of gameplay but it's always resolved after restarting the game.

To me, 260k is the limit when things get too slow, 0,4-0,6 simulations speed.

People is not the only thing that matter, i saw city with more people to go better than cities with less, depends on everything you put in the city, i think.

 

[Blue Monkey]

For those who haven't purchased it yet, I would advise against buying it. CD Projekt RED, at least, had the decency to refund those who requested it.

I am glad I used the Game Pass Trial for this. Meanwhile I have CS 1 with nearly all DLCs ...
There are also other methods to play it, if you are hesitant to buy, like Steam family share, or test it with a friends account who owns it, etc.

 

[∆tlαntic4]

Estou feliz por ter usado o Game Pass Trial para isso. Enquanto isso tenho CS 1 com quase todos os DLCs...
Existem também outros métodos de jogar, se você estiver hesitante em comprar, como compartilhar com a família Steam ou testá-lo com uma conta de amigo que o possua, etc.

Unfortunately, I bought it through Steam. How much did you spend on all the CS1 DLCs?

 

[RaftermanNZ]

I called it hardware issue because total system reboot crashes are 99% based in hardware issues. With temps and PSU the first two you have to check before going further. Regular system crashes to desktop can be more software related.

E-cores and hyperthreading should always be turned off in games, it's not specific to CS2, they are not for gaming, people are just uninformed of what their function is and people buy these CPUs with a ton of cores thinking they can improve gaming performance when in fact they are just not designed for that purpose. They infact lower overall performance in games and causes instability as you found out. It's also of course a hardware releated issue, so I was right then... Just because it's CS2 that makes you realize you have something wrong with your hardware setup doesn't make it a CS2 issue, nor does it mean by calling it hardware issue it's something anyone was trying to handwave away, I was trying to help you. Hardware is a lot easier to test for yourself than a software issue within CS2.

I get you! Not trying to be rude, I appreciate the help, I'm just worried the root cause isn't addressed because it's considered out of their hands as something only triggered by my system and not the actual application, when there is more than certainly an issue with the application itself.

E-cores didn't seem to be the cause of the crashing anyways, but hyperthreading was.

But I'll reiterate, the system is only crashing in this fashion with specifically CS2. No other application is experiencing this kind of behavior. Precisely, the ones that put more demand on all components simultaneously, and much the same way as CS2 does, the system does not experience application crashes, or system reboots/BSODs while running them. There is something in CS2 causing the system to behave this way. I guess most are probably just experiencing crashes to the desktop for the same reasons, but not seeing full BSODs or reboots. While some, like me, may have some kind of hardware issue that triggers a BSOD or reboot when hyperthreading is enabled when those same crashes occur.

But I want my point to be known that CS2 is the only application to ever crash in a way that also triggers full BSODs/reboots on this system. Even the most crash happy, high demand applications on my PC aren't leading to BSODs or reboots, so it has to be more than just hardware, and I'd just hope the devs looking at crash reports aren't shrugging it off as a hardware issue out of their control, when it is in fact a software issue at its origin, with my hardware issues being amplified by errors in the game. The reboots must just be a symptom of something else, while the crashes leading to the reboots are an issue with CS2 itself, but is still the catalyst to this error.

 

[carburated]

For those who haven't purchased it yet, I would advise against buying it. CD Projekt RED, at least, had the decency to refund those who requested it.

I don't really understand that logic, unless it's just to make a point to Paradox that there are consequences for releasing an unfinished game. Ultimately though, I'm going to buy it, so why not now? If an update breaks my city, it's ok. Just a starter city anyway. It will give me a reason to start again on a map without snow (I really hate the snow, it looks terrible on my terrible computer).

 

[RaftermanNZ]

I don't really understand that logic, unless it's just to make a point to Paradox that there are consequences for releasing an unfinished game. Ultimately though, I'm going to buy it, so why not now? If an update breaks my city, it's ok. Just a starter city anyway. It will give me a reason to start again on a map without snow (I really hate the snow, it looks terrible on my terrible computer).

It's a great game, don't get me wrong, but it's abundantly clear it was rushed out before it was ready.

I get it, they have timelines to meet, investors to please, paychecks to pay. It's just a frustrating thing to be promised a game like this.

Early access should have been an option explored if this is the state is was going to be released in.