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I'm upgrading my PC to a 'mid-range' build very soon, I'm custom assembling the parts from this list:
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/n4rfNQ
Taking out the peripherals and the cost of the new monitor it's pretty cheap by itself, AMD Ryzen 2600 should absolutely tank my AMD Anthlon II X2 250 That I've been running on for the last ten or so years (ripipip).
Not to mention it has some decently optimized RAM in it just to better work with the AMD core, if this doesn't make the game run smoothly then it's not my fault.
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/n4rfNQ
Taking out the peripherals and the cost of the new monitor it's pretty cheap by itself, AMD Ryzen 2600 should absolutely tank my AMD Anthlon II X2 250 That I've been running on for the last ten or so years (ripipip).
Not to mention it has some decently optimized RAM in it just to better work with the AMD core, if this doesn't make the game run smoothly then it's not my fault.
It is absolutely not your fault. It is Paradox's fault for having such a poorly-threaded, antiquated engine that they are trying to push way past its limits.
On the other hand, there will be more to do for you during those phases, so it might mater a lot less?
Single Core performance is what maters the most.
Because despite what CPU Manufacturers hyped, Multithreading is not a magical "solve all performance problem" bullet. It works for some very specific problems. And the kind of problems of wich games usually have very few.
If you know the magical way to Multithread the calculation of the Fibbonacci sequence (and nope, storing the sequence does not count as calculation), tell us.
Because that is nothing less then you request with "more Multithreading".
Anything that was a bottleneck and could be multithreaded has been - usually with a massive redesign to the mechanic. Just look at Migration, wich was redesigned twice for MT support
The underlying problem is that the engine is over eight years old and just wasn't designed to carry the weight of the sheer depth of mechanics present in Stellaris today.
Its not your fault, after apocalypse i upgraded, i had an FX 8350 and got a Ryzen 7 2700X, and the game actually runs slower after megacorp then it did in apocalypse with a much older processor.
It is the same basic math and parallel AI Agents they had since Shogun.
The script language for modding is also nothing special.
The only thing that was mostly unchanged is the drawing part, because those usually require low level code close to the machine.
I'm aware of single thread speed importance but the AMD Ryzen 2600 (and it's X) offers something else than just games, it's a CPU I picked to enable streaming better than the competitors of its range offers. If you've seen intel's performance with streaming at that range of processor you'll know that it just isn't good.
Besides that, the processor is just a straight upgrade in terms of single thread computing power so I'm not sure what argument is supposed to apply other than an intel v AMD value comparison contest (note, value).
You don't think I'd just throw 1k at the wall without due dilligence, do you? This decision was thought out for weeks before purchase.
If you write a game that can't keep at a reasonable performance even with the best consumer hardware on offer, that is 100% on you.
Also, I believe you mean Sengoku, not Shogun, which is what I was using as the basis for my "more than eight years old" claim.
So your argument is that they allowed a too high amount of Galaxy Size, AI Palyers and Units? Because picking those values to high would kill every Game Engine and is apparently the developers fault.
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It wont matter at all. Im running the game on a i9 9900k, 64gb 3600 ram and a rtx 2080ti. Still lags like hell on late game, almost the same performance i had with my old i7 2600 with 8gb ram and a gtx 960.
Multi core is an overrated marketing ploy created because it is no longer possible to make faster processors due to heat issues with Silicon which is why research is done to switch over to carbon which have much better heat properties.
The reason why multi core don't work anywhere as well as you may think is because of something called Amdahl's law which basically say if something can't be run completely parallell (and I suspect games like Stellaris have alot of those stuff) the performance gain from additional cores will drop sharply.
Overall the gains from new CPU have been limited, most of the major development have been in GPU which is specialized in doing stuff parallell such as graphics while CPU technology have largely stagnated because of reaching physical limits, now it is mostly about quanity, adding more transistors instead of better ones.
The reason why Stellaris have become slow is because they have added more stuff that Drains performance such as complicated pathfinding for trade routes, if they used a simpler solution or better optimization, performance would start to return. Humans are quite poor coders which is why programming languages exist but software pretty much Always lag behind hardware, you need the hardware to know what software Tools needed to get most out of it.
The reason why multi core don't work anywhere as well as you may think is because of something called Amdahl's law which basically say if something can't be run completely parallell (and I suspect games like Stellaris have alot of those stuff) the performance gain from additional cores will drop sharply.
Overall the gains from new CPU have been limited, most of the major development have been in GPU which is specialized in doing stuff parallell such as graphics while CPU technology have largely stagnated because of reaching physical limits, now it is mostly about quanity, adding more transistors instead of better ones.
The reason why Stellaris have become slow is because they have added more stuff that Drains performance such as complicated pathfinding for trade routes, if they used a simpler solution or better optimization, performance would start to return. Humans are quite poor coders which is why programming languages exist but software pretty much Always lag behind hardware, you need the hardware to know what software Tools needed to get most out of it.
My argument is that Paradox should develop their games with the limitations of their engine in mind.
Not correct. 5 empires with 100 planets each is exactly the same amount of lag as 50 empires with 10 planets each, assuming pops are the principle cause of lag.
I don't know:
My experience from talking to most programmers is they don't even want to touch parallel programming because it's the sane approach.
The example I've found from brief foray onto the internet is that a lot of games tend to segment their tasks into a job list these days (but no citation there).
Again though no-one here has Stellaris source code so you can only guess why it's poorly running.
If you want to use clausewitz for an argument I'd be interested to see what developers themselves had to say about it. Because as far as I know you can't have even licensed it since 2015.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-code-questions.469819/page-322#post-16787190
- The source code for Stellaris.
- How to assess how parrellized it is (optmized for multi-core processing).
- How to make it so, or even how to assess at what percentage it is.
My experience from talking to most programmers is they don't even want to touch parallel programming because it's the sane approach.
The example I've found from brief foray onto the internet is that a lot of games tend to segment their tasks into a job list these days (but no citation there).
Again though no-one here has Stellaris source code so you can only guess why it's poorly running.
If you want to use clausewitz for an argument I'd be interested to see what developers themselves had to say about it. Because as far as I know you can't have even licensed it since 2015.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-code-questions.469819/page-322#post-16787190
https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Paradox-Interactive-Reviews-E1008028.htm
Guess that shows us the reason, why performance is so horrible and nobody is adressing it. Dev teams are heavily underpaid and understaffed. Which quite explains the whole picture. We still get creative and cool content, because the developers are highly commited and love the game. But there are not enough ressources to actually flesh old things out. Just read through a few of these reviews. It is sad. There is even one person claiming talking about "the top-grossing, highest priority project in the studio, and there were only 13 developers working on it", which actually could be Stellaris, not sure.
Also wants me to say thanks to the Devs who still try to give us an awesome game. They just can not. Love you guys.
Guess that shows us the reason, why performance is so horrible and nobody is adressing it. Dev teams are heavily underpaid and understaffed. Which quite explains the whole picture. We still get creative and cool content, because the developers are highly commited and love the game. But there are not enough ressources to actually flesh old things out. Just read through a few of these reviews. It is sad. There is even one person claiming talking about "the top-grossing, highest priority project in the studio, and there were only 13 developers working on it", which actually could be Stellaris, not sure.
Also wants me to say thanks to the Devs who still try to give us an awesome game. They just can not. Love you guys.
I'm a programmer, I can tell you that parallel programming is absolute nightmare for companies. The reason is that parallel algorithms will never be 100% bugs proof, there is no way to know if the code has some kind of sneaky bug that will come out breaking everything, no matter how much you spend in testing. That said, I can understand why devs are so reluctant to add more parallelization to the game, however they continue to add more and more performance-draining features, to a point that it became unplayable.
Moreover, each DLC adds more computational time, because the game has to check if it can enable a certain feature for each DLC (like if (player has utopia) -> enable these megastructures).
In the end, AI and performance will never be improved because people keep buyng DLCs so devs don't care that much.