Project Caesar Mod Speculation Thread

[tinholt]

I'm also thinking Project Caesar with it's mix of characters and nations might be the best Paradox Game for us to get a proper Avatar: The Last Airbender mod

I feel like the issue with an Avatar mod

Problem with ATLA, and fantasy worlds of the sort, is that they take the Great Man Theory to the extreme. It's world building doesn't have to make sense, it's merely a backdrop used as a story device.

I think many people are enamored by the idea of elemental magic (or any kind of magic) and seeing it interact with a world that's undergoing its own technological transitions and epochs. Where magic too is a productive force that keeps the engine of the economy running. Heck, I've written my own unpublished story that tries to do just that.

While it's certainly possible to create the ATLA universe in Project Caesar. The problem is the Avatar. Who is basically the anti-Timur. The Avatar's job is to keep the world the same. Keep the world in balance. It's a philosophy that's the literal antithesis of what Grand Strategy Games are about.

Anbennar is great, and experiments with that idea (albeit it's very much an example of a round peg into a square hole, as they force the technology and changes to follow our own timeline). Problem is that it's a patchwork of stories that often end at one's own border. Which is fine, but it doesn't allow for a grand narrative that spans all corners of the world. There is no overarching conflict, which ATLA does have.

 

[SAmaster]

Problem with ATLA, and fantasy worlds of the sort, is that they take the Great Man Theory to the extreme. It's world building doesn't have to make sense, it's merely a backdrop used as a story device.

I think many people are enamored by the idea of elemental magic (or any kind of magic) and seeing it interact with a world that's undergoing its own technological transitions and epochs. Where magic too is a productive force that keeps the engine of the economy running. Heck, I've written my own unpublished story that tries to do just that.

While it's certainly possible to create the ATLA universe in Project Caesar. The problem is the Avatar. Who is basically the anti-Timur. The Avatar's job is to keep the world the same. Keep the world in balance. It's a philosophy that's the literal antithesis of what Grand Strategy Games are about.

Anbennar is great, and experiments with that idea (albeit it's very much an example of a round peg into a square hole, as they force the technology and changes to follow our own timeline). Problem is that it's a patchwork of stories that often end at one's own border. Which is fine, but it doesn't allow for a grand narrative that spans all corners of the world. There is no overarching conflict, which ATLA does have.

Yeah, but I'd contend on the other extreme end is base HOI4 games that don't have any grand narrative to them, or overarching conflict. I mean sometimes HOI4 has WW2. Sometimes it has five separate regional conflicts that become unified because El-Salvador joined the Co-Prosperity Sphere.

I'd handle it that the Avatar is a combination of the Pope and one of the sub-nation's, probably a small Army Based Country (but boosted to hell and back to let it compete with majors). We should note that the Avatar doesn't singlehandedly determine global policy- for instance the Hundred Years War occurs from the Fire Nation disregarding any output of the Avatar. And Zuko's huge arc is so that the Fire Nation could reasonably and peaceably surrender without having to spend a decades long campaign to occupy them.

Perhaps there is a lighter version of excommunication the Avatar could do on leaders, but one that wouldn't impact conquerors too much since they only seem to be taken down in direct confrontations, rather than like a court hearing.

 

[AntarcticRanger]

The Toltecs vanished

I wouldn't say "vanished", and really no Mesoamerican civilization ever completely collapsed or disappeared. Really they had a pretty normal existence considering their tech level.

I disagree, a proper alternate start date in PC is an INSANE amount of work, not because of location ownership, but because of pops distribution.

yeah, having a good and proper start date is going to be tons of work, but I think letting the AI run til the desired date and then editing from there will probably make a good stop gap.

 

[SAmaster]

I wouldn't say "vanished", and really no Mesoamerican civilization ever completely collapsed or disappeared. Really they had a pretty normal existence considering their tech level.

yeah, having a good and proper start date is going to be tons of work, but I think letting the AI run til the desired date and then editing from there will probably make a good stop gap.

Am I confusing them with another civilization then? Cause I'm sure there's a mesoamerican civilization that collapsed that currently we have no strong confirmed theory for how or why.

 

[AntarcticRanger]

Am I confusing them with another civilization then? Cause I'm sure there's a mesoamerican civilization that collapsed that currently we have no strong confirmed theory for how or why.

I mean there were collapses, cultures and states died, but as far as I know there was never something like, say, the collapse of the Indus valley civilization. Or even as bad as the collapse of the Hittites. The end of the classic Mayans is probably the closest to what you are talking about?

 

[Marcqui Pika]

Really hyped for a Middle Ages mod. Ck3 has been a terrible disappointment for anything thant the Sims Medieval, and this will play nicely to navigate all the cool events and transformations of the middle ages.

I'm really hoping for a Medieval mod too. It's my favorite historical era - and it's actually what I am specializing in uni, as I am studying history - and honestly PC would be able to simulate the Middle Ages a lot better than CK3. Looking at the 867 start date and seeing most of Europe be “feudal“... just makes me shiver. It really does not emulate Medieval states well, or at all. It just copied the mistakes that CK2 did while doing nothing with them. It's a fun game, but it was incredibly disappointing in this regard...

 

[Liam1234]

I might try to do a climate and topography rework based on Sulphurologist's suggestions.

 

[lukesilveira]

I'm really hoping for a Medieval mod too. It's my favorite historical era - and it's actually what I am specializing in uni, as I am studying history - and honestly PC would be able to simulate the Middle Ages a lot better than CK3. Looking at the 867 start date and seeing most of Europe be “feudal“... just makes me shiver. It really does not emulate Medieval states well, or at all. It just copied the mistakes that CK2 did while doing nothing with them. It's a fun game, but it was incredibly disappointing in this regard...

I agree that CK3's depiction of universal feudalism is extremely odd. The game has evolved into more of a stack modifier and RPG simulator with Grand Strategy elements tacked on. That said, I still believe the engine is ideal for capturing the interpersonal dynamics essential to medieval politics - particularly among highly decentralized local strongmen (at the "Baron" level) who maintained loose connections to what the game calls their de jure overlords while relying heavily on family ties and/or clan relationships for support. For most of the region instead of feudalism it would be better to have something closer to what CK3 presents as tribes, but far more decentralized, emphasizing the multiple sources of power and the legitimacy derived from landholding itself for some regions. Of course, considerinf regionalism and other distinct forms of organization, and keeping feudalism where it historically happened.

I expect modders will expand character importance and player interactions in PC, potentially delivering the medieval GSG experience we're hoping for, but I can't help feeling disappointed about how CK could have handled this better.

That said, I think that PC will likely provide a superior framework for representing the omnipresent Church with its administrative infrastructure and churches as international outposts (ie, bbc and foreign based buildings). Probably other things as well, such as institutions and tech.

 

[Nikicaga]

Don't forget the more provinces/locations ect. mods like Beyond Typus or Voltaire's Nightmare.

As one of the the BT devs, really excited to work with the already higher baseline EU5 density and honestly much better options of differentiating locations!

 

[constanginegt]

It would be nice if by mods you could modify map, like add new Island or something like this.

 

[McEwanMaster]

It would be nice if by mods you could modify map, like add new Island or something like this.

Rest assured, this will will definitely be possible. People have been creating entire other worlds in their mods for Paradox games for decades.

Maybe in PC's future Tinto will even figure out the technology to make dynamic terrain and even locations possible. Pretty crazy possibilities for apocalypse-level events, like the Downfall of Nûmenor or the War of Wrath that destroyed Beleriand in Lord of the Rings. Or the Breaking of the World for Wheel of Time that rearranged the shape of the landscape across entire continents. Probably a pipe dream, but without the dream small chance it'll be reality!

 

[Friedrich von Deutschland]

Maybe in PC's future Tinto will even figure out the technology to make dynamic terrain and even locations possible.

Probably not locations, but I’m hopeful that dynamic terrain will be added post-launch. CK3 has shown that features once thought impossible can and will be added in major updates, and the devs definitely seem interested in dynamic terrain even if they’ve accepted it won’t be feasible before launch.

 

[McEwanMaster]

Probably not locations, but I’m hopeful that dynamic terrain will be added post-launch. CK3 has shown that features once thought impossible can and will be added in major updates, and the devs definitely seem interested in dynamic terrain even if they’ve accepted it won’t be feasible before launch.

For sure, that's what I was saying. Dynamic terrain could just be a matter of time, considering how Johan's been talking about it. Dynamic locations is definitely more of the pipe dream, but who knows what breakthroughs there'll be!

 

[Friedrich von Deutschland]

For sure, that's what I was saying. Dynamic terrain could just be a matter of time, considering how Johan's been talking about it. Dynamic locations is definitely more of the pipe dream, but who knows what breakthroughs there'll be!

Dynamic locations don't seem feasible. More than that I'd expect dynamic provinces long before dynamic locations, and unlike dynamic terrain those don't even seem to be in the "like to have" camp, the devs just straight up don't want them.

 

[SAmaster]

Probably not locations, but I’m hopeful that dynamic terrain will be added post-launch. CK3 has shown that features once thought impossible can and will be added in major updates, and the devs definitely seem interested in dynamic terrain even if they’ve accepted it won’t be feasible before launch.

I think they've said it's entirely possible on a coding level, their problem is that they can't make the visuals chance which is why they don't want to do it.

I think for modders this'll be fine. You could easily allow for 'urban' provinces to develop since presumably you can just layer on top the additional buildings, I don't think you need to really show a wetland swamp province being turned into farmland or the like. Desert provinces might be a little bit trickier, but I doubt anyone will want to show mass desertification. Or if you did, maybe the province starts off visually as desert.