I think a rework on the ocean water would be great. A darker more realistic blue would overall look a lot better. Also some work on the texture of the oceans would be nice too.
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The water color is literally a copy paste from a satellite image. Not sure how I can edit that to look more realatic.
Perhaps you mean more hollywood?
Perhaps you mean more hollywood?
@Marinakis
Abt. install, should this be installed in mod folder outside the HIP folder or inside the said HIP folder?
Rgds, Oldtimer
Abt. install, should this be installed in mod folder outside the HIP folder or inside the said HIP folder?
Rgds, Oldtimer
Just finished a fairly polished oasis version of my map for all those interested. I actually really like the new setup from a aesthetics and game play perspective - Emphasizes the coastal lands of arid regions and visually accounts for the sparsely populated nature of central Arabia and the Sahara. Also, it allowed me to rework Egypt a bit more to my liking. I also think the visual representation of the trading routes helps people better understand why certain North African, Central African, Arabian as well as specific cities/nations in the Levant become prominent economic and cultural forces.
***Uploaded a New Download Link to the First Page***
Overview
Arabia
Egypt
Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya
Sahel
***Uploaded a New Download Link to the First Page***
Overview
Arabia
Egypt
Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya
Sahel
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The water color is literally a copy paste from a satellite image. Not sure how I can edit that to look more realatic.
Perhaps you mean more hollywood?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gsfc/6630087415
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...8px-Satellite_view_of_northwestern_Europe.jpg
These two satellite images that show the oceans are a very dark blue. I think somewhere closer to these colors would look a bit better, if possible. Not a big deal though and I like your work anyway.
I can look into it, but no promises. That couod endnup being a massive undertaking. But, Ill give it a look.
Love your map (oases are a nice touch). I'm thinking of doing something similar for M&T once my new computer parts arrive.
I might raise an unpoplar flag here, but I'm not very sure if oases are a good choice for everywhere.
For instance for large parts of Sahara they do make sense - especially on the Sijilmassa-Taghaza-Walata-Timbuktu route as well as Sijilmassa-Touat...-Gao/Songhay, where the oases were really isolated islands in the middle of the desert.
In Arabia, however, it was bit more complex. The oases were centers of herding areas of local tribes which lived nearby. AFAIK the rulers assigned to those areas are tribal rulers of the tribes who mainly lived outside the oases and their territory was much larger than the small hinterland of the oasis. This definitely applies to Arabia, to a large degree also to the westernmost Trans-Saharan route (but OTOH there after the reduction of provinces the counties are way too large for this approach to look good), it is the case of Fezzan and the oases in Grand Erg.
What would you think about making those areas (at least Fezzan and Grand-Erg) clusters in which you would have provinces tied bordering to each other, but together being an isolated island in the desert?
In Arabia, however, I would suggest you to prefer the previous approach of continuous territory.. or at least the cluster approach too.
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Another thing is how did you project the main routes?
I think it is really weird if some of them pass by some oasis without crossing them - especially in the desert conditions it is highly inprobable that a trade route would not cross an oasis it is passing by.
Here is my humble suggestion how IMHO the connections should look like according to my sources on principal Trans-Saharan caravan routes. The yellow areas are the clusters I mentioned in the post above.
Another thing is how did you project the main routes?
I think it is really weird if some of them pass by some oasis without crossing them - especially in the desert conditions it is highly inprobable that a trade route would not cross an oasis it is passing by.
Here is my humble suggestion how IMHO the connections should look like according to my sources on principal Trans-Saharan caravan routes. The yellow areas are the clusters I mentioned in the post above.
I used maps of sahara trade routes, those were included. I am assuming there are small pitstop waterholes on the way the naives knew about. Google maps, youll see them.
So, here are a few trade route maps, I think my setup is fairly accurate. If you guys have some more in depth research on the subject, please feel free to share and i will adjust accordingly...
Made some minor tweaks based on the feedback, but nothing major. I honestly think the setup I have is a pretty decent compromise between the trading maps I have seen.
The major trading focus points:
CENTRAL AFRICA
Gao, Timbuktu and Kano (via Katsina)
NORTH AFRICA
Sijilmasa, Tunis (via Bou Sa Ada), Tripolitana and Alexandria (via Siwa)
NUBIA
Toungoul
ARABIA / MESO
Tayma, Amman, Makkah, Baghdad (via Karbala), Qatar (via Al-Asha)
Made some minor tweaks based on the feedback, but nothing major. I honestly think the setup I have is a pretty decent compromise between the trading maps I have seen.
The major trading focus points:
CENTRAL AFRICA
Gao, Timbuktu and Kano (via Katsina)
NORTH AFRICA
Sijilmasa, Tunis (via Bou Sa Ada), Tripolitana and Alexandria (via Siwa)
NUBIA
Toungoul
ARABIA / MESO
Tayma, Amman, Makkah, Baghdad (via Karbala), Qatar (via Al-Asha)
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I wonder if this could be used to represent other underpopulated areas like siberian tundra tribes. I mean, tribes didnt really filled all the land, only the part most kind to them, like rivers and protected valleys.
Considering the sources you used it ideed is pretty decent. But if we look at better sources, it unfortunately isn't.
The maps you used are either very rough, or the detailed one shows 19th century situation.
Though You have most of the centers right, they were:
NORTH:
Sijilmasa, Tlemcen/Tahert (each of them in different time), Tunis, Tripolis and generaly Egypt (via Siwa)
SAHARA:
Waddan in Adrar, Taghaza, oases of Touat, Tadmekka, Ghadames, Ghat, oases of Fezzan and oases of Kawar
SAHEL:
Awdaghust, Yaresna/Ghiyaru - Bambuk, Koumbi Saleh/Ghana, Niani (Mali) and Bure, Jenne, Gao, Kano (mainly via Katsina) and Kanem/Bornu area. Later, during late 13th and 14th century, Timbuktu started becomming important trade center too and later dominated the west Sahelian trade.
The routes were obviously changing their main courses over time, but in the ck2 period (late 9th-14th century) the main ones were these:
Sijilmasa - Idjil - Waddan - Awdaghust - Bambuk or "Ghana" (Koumbi Saleh)
Sijilmasa - Taghaza - Walata - Koumbi Saleh - Jenne, but during 14th century a route via Timbuktu became dominant, making it - Sijilmasa - Taghaza - Arawan - Timbuktu
then there was a route going either from Tahert or Tunis through oases in Mzab region down either via oases of Touat area, passing through oases west of Hoggar to Timbuktu
Alternatively there was a route from Tunis via Hoggar to Gao.
And lastly an essential central route was Tripolis - Fezzan - Kawar - Kanem/Bornu
here is a general overview I made based on sources like Encyclopaedia of Islam and its 2 historical atlases as well as Cambridge history of Africa and several other academic articles dedicated to various branches of Trans-Saharan trade
you may not take it as valid source, of course since I'm no academic expert an just amateur historian... so if you wnt, here are few little better maps of Trans-Saharan trade:
this one also covers the east ad also shows Taghza-Touat connection which indeed existed and was used, but not as principle long-distance trade.
this is your submod, so feel free to ignore these notes, though if you want to really have it decent, I would recommend two major changes:
1) Add connection between Kanem/Bornu area and Kawar-Bilma - it was the essential part of one of the most important trade routes in the entire world. The fact that either of your sources ignores it speaks about the quality of the sources.
2) erase the route which goes some 200 kilometers north of the Chad-Darfur-Ethiopia corridor. The real route there went through this corridor. Your route goes 200km nort of inhabited areas, some 1000km through one of the most arid parts of the Sahara. O your source maps it is this north only beause they are extremely rough and some 200kilometers are no measure for them. There was no east-west route in that part of Sahara except the corridor going through Darfur.
Generaly the East-west, or north-east - south-west direction of routes was primarily frequent slightly before the CK2 period, before gradual aridization of Sahara, and later, after 2nd half of 13th century, when Egypt could no longer use Nubian gold mines and thus needed more direct connection to gold bearing regions of West Africa. south of Niger
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Considering the sources you used it ideed is pretty decent. But if we look at better sources, it unfortunately isn't.
The maps you used are either very rough, or the detailed one shows 19th century situation.
Though You have most of the centers right, they were:
NORTH:
Sijilmasa, Tlemcen/Tahert (each of them in different time), Tunis, Tripolis and generaly Egypt (via Siwa)
SAHARA:
Waddan in Adrar, Taghaza, oases of Touat, Tadmekka, Ghadames, Ghat, oases of Fezzan and oases of Kawar
SAHEL:
Awdaghust, Yaresna/Ghiyaru - Bambuk, Koumbi Saleh/Ghana, Niani (Mali) and Bure, Jenne, Gao, Kano (mainly via Katsina) and Kanem/Bornu area. Later, during late 13th and 14th century, Timbuktu started becomming important trade center too and later dominated the west Sahelian trade.
The routes were obviously changing their main courses over time, but in the ck2 period (late 9th-14th century) the main ones were these:
Sijilmasa - Idjil - Waddan - Awdaghust - Bambuk or "Ghana" (Koumbi Saleh)
Sijilmasa - Taghaza - Walata - Koumbi Saleh - Jenne, but during 14th century a route via Timbuktu became dominant, making it - Sijilmasa - Taghaza - Arawan - Timbuktu
then there was a route going either from Tahert or Tunis through oases in Mzab region down either via oases of Touat area, passing through oases west of Hoggar to Timbuktu
Alternatively there was a route from Tunis via Hoggar to Gao.
And lastly an essential central route was Tripolis - Fezzan - Kawar - Kanem/Bornu
here is a general overview I made based on sources like Encyclopaedia of Islam and its 2 historical atlases as well as Cambridge history of Africa and several other academic articles dedicated to various branches of Trans-Saharan trade
you may not take it as valid source, of course since I'm no academic expert an just amateur historian... so if you wnt, here are few little better maps of Trans-Saharan trade:
this one also covers the east ad also shows Taghza-Touat connection which indeed existed and was used, but not as principle long-distance trade.
this is your submod, so feel free to ignore these notes, though if you want to really have it decent, I would recommend two major changes:
1) Add connection between Kanem/Bornu area and Kawar-Bilma - it was the essential part of one of the most important trade routes in the entire world. The fact that either of your sources ignores it speaks about the quality of the sources.
2) erase the route which goes some 200 kilometers north of the Chad-Darfur-Ethiopia corridor. The real route there went through this corridor. Your route goes 200km nort of inhabited areas, some 1000km through one of the most arid parts of the Sahara. O your source maps it is this north only beause they are extremely rough and some 200kilometers are no measure for them. There was no east-west route in that part of Sahara except the corridor going through Darfur.
Generaly the East-west, or north-east - south-west direction of routes was primarily frequent slightly before the CK2 period, before gradual aridization of Sahara, and later, after 2nd half of 13th century, when Egypt could no longer use Nubian gold mines and thus needed more direct connection to gold bearing regions of West Africa. south of Niger
Now that's a super helpful response/feedback post. I love the first map.
I will adjust accordingly
Updated. No more complaining
Just Kidding.
Thanks for the feedback guys! 1.2b has been uploaded to the OP.
Just Kidding.
Thanks for the feedback guys! 1.2b has been uploaded to the OP.
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Man, i like it. So beautiful the caravan routes. Feel more real to me, no more sand kingdoms. I wonder, if actual trade routes could be implemented (like the silk road with tradeposts, but without the china stuff) to emulate the gold, and ivory trade.
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I'm working on a huge trade road submod for HIP and could probably adapt it to Gaia if people are interested. Coincidentally, I'm working on the trans-Saharan trade routes now.Actually that's a good idea. Plus one