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Hyzen, Byak, and I showed up last night. We messed around a bit, but didn't really do much. I did discuss my grievance with our current setting (German campaign) though. I think it's rather dull, in large part because we're so spread out and have little actual reason to interact with each other. This may improve as the game goes on, but I wanted to buck against the game a bit and suggest we change the setting.
I think we should do one of two things:
1) Play Catholic Kings
2) Play Byzantine Princes
Catholic Kings would be an interresting large -scale game, I think, because it would give us an opportunity to directly compete against each other, fight and lose wars, and still be able to carry on. I think we would want to implement our usual crusading restrictions (1 crusade every 10 years/may only crusading during deus vult) as well as our legal restriction (only semi-sallic or elective inheritance laws.) There are a good number of Catholic Kings to choose from (Scotland, England, France, Castille, Aragon, Leon, Spanish Galacia, Navarra, Germany, Poland, Hungary, Denmark, Sweeden, and Finland), so players would have great latitude in selecting what sort of (and sive of) realm they want to play. We could even create incentives to play some of the smaller domains, such as saying that crusading restrictions don't apply to the Iberian Kings and their reconquesta.
Byzantine Princes would get us out of western Europe, and would put us in the interresting position of trying to keep our family alive and powerful in an enviornment where the top job is elective and can be snatched away from you if you're not careful. Clearly, the goal in a game like this would be to see who can remain Emperor the longest.
Either way, i think modding characters is the way to go, since we all seem to be more attached to our characters when we mod them. Anyways, that's my two bits. If y'all want to stay German counts, I'm still game. I just thought I would put my opinions out there.
I think we should do one of two things:
1) Play Catholic Kings
2) Play Byzantine Princes
Catholic Kings would be an interresting large -scale game, I think, because it would give us an opportunity to directly compete against each other, fight and lose wars, and still be able to carry on. I think we would want to implement our usual crusading restrictions (1 crusade every 10 years/may only crusading during deus vult) as well as our legal restriction (only semi-sallic or elective inheritance laws.) There are a good number of Catholic Kings to choose from (Scotland, England, France, Castille, Aragon, Leon, Spanish Galacia, Navarra, Germany, Poland, Hungary, Denmark, Sweeden, and Finland), so players would have great latitude in selecting what sort of (and sive of) realm they want to play. We could even create incentives to play some of the smaller domains, such as saying that crusading restrictions don't apply to the Iberian Kings and their reconquesta.
Byzantine Princes would get us out of western Europe, and would put us in the interresting position of trying to keep our family alive and powerful in an enviornment where the top job is elective and can be snatched away from you if you're not careful. Clearly, the goal in a game like this would be to see who can remain Emperor the longest.
Either way, i think modding characters is the way to go, since we all seem to be more attached to our characters when we mod them. Anyways, that's my two bits. If y'all want to stay German counts, I'm still game. I just thought I would put my opinions out there.
Byzantine princes sounds very interesting and the princes are more balanced on power level than the varying kings (compare Navarra & Germany. 
)
Though byzantines need some house rules: If you are emperor, inheritance needs to be elective (changed if necessary when assuming power) and nobody can separate himself from the empire by creating a new king title for himself.
)Though byzantines need some house rules: If you are emperor, inheritance needs to be elective (changed if necessary when assuming power) and nobody can separate himself from the empire by creating a new king title for himself.
Well, I certainly would like to try Kings, because I believe that playing Byzantine Princes may present the same problem as the current game.
I slightly favor Kings between the two ideas, but there are definitely differences in power that need to be considered. At the same time, I don't think anyone's going to be picking Navarre unless they have a good idea for a story they would like to play out, and in that instance I don't think that the player in question would have an issue with the differences in power. Furthermore, there will be imbalances in power regardless of where people play, so it's more a matter of scale and how much of a power imbalance we want to allow.
At the same time, I think that there would not be the same problem of boringness we have with the German counts in the Byzantine game. Indeed, we would be far more spread out in a Kings game than a Princes one. The Byzantine game's main drawback it it's similarity to the Irish campaign- it changes settings but is basically the same idea.
That said, I'm game for any of the three options, and am eager to see what our other players have to say about the notion.
At the same time, I think that there would not be the same problem of boringness we have with the German counts in the Byzantine game. Indeed, we would be far more spread out in a Kings game than a Princes one. The Byzantine game's main drawback it it's similarity to the Irish campaign- it changes settings but is basically the same idea.
That said, I'm game for any of the three options, and am eager to see what our other players have to say about the notion.
The Kings version sounds more interesting. I don't like playing Kings in SP, but it might be better in MP.
I suppose we'd go for the western Kings, as there is already an attempt to play the eastern Kings, and it hasn't drawn much interest. Ie France, Iberians, England, Scotland?
I suppose we'd go for the western Kings, as there is already an attempt to play the eastern Kings, and it hasn't drawn much interest. Ie France, Iberians, England, Scotland?
Jarkko Suvinen said:
Well, we have 7 players so far, perhaps we could be... England, France, Germany, Hungary, Poland, Byzantium, and an Iberian Kingdom?
Sterkarm said:
I think that if we are going to play Kings, that we should all play Catholic Kings. The list that I would generate would be (from West to East):
Scotland, England, France, Denmark, Germany, Poland, Hungary. Additionally, we could open up Finland, Sweeden, Leon, Spanish Galacia, or Castille. Of course, it would also do to remember that there are scenarios other than the 1066 one, and we could consider Kingdoms in one of the later time periods....
Also, I would put forth two points:
* 8 is the maximum for an MP game according to the instruction book, so we might try to get one more player.
* As the game time is set, I would say that we would play every week regardless of who shows up. It's up to y'all if we recruit alternates or if we just let the AI run any domains that have absent players.
Patrucio said:
Great plan, but:
1) There is no kingdom of Finland, it would require big modding to make there one. And Finland is **** poor.
2) Norway is a valid option to play, imo.
3) Also Navarra and Aragon are good, if small kingdoms.
4) What's wrong with Croatia?
If we play something else than 1066, there are other options too: Naples, Portugal, Italy in 1187, Lithuania in 1337 (I think).
With some modding (not even as much as with Finland) we could add kingdoms of Ireland, Wales and Naples into 1066. Lithuania could be added too, but it would require wiping out the lithuanian pagans. Also it's possible to break the humongous kingdom of Germany, Burgundy and Italy into it's component parts and have Burgundy and Italy as choices too.
I am willing to do the modding part, if we decide to go with these suggestions.
Great plan, but:
1) There is no kingdom of Finland, it would require big modding to make there one. And Finland is **** poor.
2) Norway is a valid option to play, imo.
I swear I meant Norway! Really!
I thought it was Orthodox, which is why I didn't list it.
I actually like the idea better of adding in Wales, Ireland, and breaking up Germany. That would let us group even closer together, thus encouraging even greater interaction. Under that idea, I would suggest that the nations be:
Kingdom of Ireland
Kingdom of Wales
Kingdom of Scotland
Kingdom of Burgundy
Kingdom of Germany
Kingdom of Italy
Kingdom of England
Kingdom of France
We might need to mod things a bit (maybe make Ireland richer, or divide England's Normandy holdings between Wales and Ireland, or give some of France's holdinsg to Burgundy) in order to try and achieve more-or-less equal power between the Kingdoms, though. If we're going to mod things, we might as well make sure that everyone starts on basically the same power level.
On the flip side, though, that would probably take a lot of work, and making sure that all the realms are equally powerful would be tricky. I would be quite happy to share modding responsibilities with you, Byak, but we might just also consider the path of least resistance and just mod our characters using the same 40/30 theory we used in Ireland.
Oh, and even if we break up the HRE- I still have dibbs on Germany!!!
If we're allowing Poland, I claim it. If not, second preference is England. If not that, third preference is Burgundy, if we're going to make that one. If not that, fourth is Scotland. If not that, fifth is France.
So, if we go the unmodded (domains) route, we have (thus far):
Germany/von Frankonia: Patrucio
Poland/Piast: Sterkam
France/Capet: Hyzenhok
England/de Normandie: Jarkko
and if we mod, then Sterkam becomes Burgundy/? (he'll need to pick one of the noble families in the area to elevate into a Royal Family.)
To mod, or not to mod? That is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind's eye to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous power imbalances, or to strive to balance, and in so doing possibly make things worse or unplayable...
Germany/von Frankonia: Patrucio
Poland/Piast: Sterkam
France/Capet: Hyzenhok
England/de Normandie: Jarkko
and if we mod, then Sterkam becomes Burgundy/? (he'll need to pick one of the noble families in the area to elevate into a Royal Family.)
To mod, or not to mod? That is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind's eye to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous power imbalances, or to strive to balance, and in so doing possibly make things worse or unplayable...
Here is a quick attempt I made into modding some additionals:
Germany broken into component parts
Ireland and Wales created
Also I changed Apulia to Naples, but it doesn't warrant a picture of it's own.
Making Burgundy and Italy bigger by giving German and French land could be done. Also it's possible to give Pope's vassals to Italy. Western Isles is not part of anything atm. Wales is a bit small, but I gave it 5 of the 6 that make it...
Germany broken into component parts
Ireland and Wales created
Also I changed Apulia to Naples, but it doesn't warrant a picture of it's own.
Making Burgundy and Italy bigger by giving German and French land could be done. Also it's possible to give Pope's vassals to Italy. Western Isles is not part of anything atm. Wales is a bit small, but I gave it 5 of the 6 that make it...