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May I join this game?
If It won´t be modded I would like to play with Hungary.
If it will be modded I would play Italy.
Thx.
If It won´t be modded I would like to play with Hungary.
If it will be modded I would play Italy.
Thx.
Well, if we're going the mod route, I think we need to strengthen certain realms and weaken others.
Burgundy should get part of Germany (I'd say Upper Lorraine and Schwabia, and their vassals.) We should give Genoa to Burgundy as well.
Italy should get Ortabello, Bologna, ferrara, Ravenna, Livorno and Venice. We should probably give Italy the Duchy of Karnten and maybe Osterreich from Germany as well.
Ireland should get the Western Isles, the miscellaneous northern islands owned by Norway (except for the Orkneys), and Iceland.
Scotland should get the rest of the north of the island and the Orkneys.
Wales should get all 6 of her provinces and Brittany. Maybe England's Norman vassals as well...
Naples should get Napoli, Salerno, Orvieto, Spoleto, Anaconda, Urbino, Sicily and Pisa's vassals.
If we go the modded route, we'd probably drop Poland and Hungary (squish everyone into Western Europe) as playable domains, and would also insert harsher anti-crusading restrictions (10 years between crusades, only during deus vult) in order to "encourage" players to focus on each other.
This would make the playable Kingdoms:
Ireland, England*, Scotland, Wales, France*, Germany*, Brittany*, Naples, and Italy*, where the "*" indiactes a domain already spoken for.
Comments? Suggestions? Flames?
Burgundy should get part of Germany (I'd say Upper Lorraine and Schwabia, and their vassals.) We should give Genoa to Burgundy as well.
Italy should get Ortabello, Bologna, ferrara, Ravenna, Livorno and Venice. We should probably give Italy the Duchy of Karnten and maybe Osterreich from Germany as well.
Ireland should get the Western Isles, the miscellaneous northern islands owned by Norway (except for the Orkneys), and Iceland.
Scotland should get the rest of the north of the island and the Orkneys.
Wales should get all 6 of her provinces and Brittany. Maybe England's Norman vassals as well...
Naples should get Napoli, Salerno, Orvieto, Spoleto, Anaconda, Urbino, Sicily and Pisa's vassals.
If we go the modded route, we'd probably drop Poland and Hungary (squish everyone into Western Europe) as playable domains, and would also insert harsher anti-crusading restrictions (10 years between crusades, only during deus vult) in order to "encourage" players to focus on each other.
This would make the playable Kingdoms:
Ireland, England*, Scotland, Wales, France*, Germany*, Brittany*, Naples, and Italy*, where the "*" indiactes a domain already spoken for.
Comments? Suggestions? Flames?
Alternately, in order to get the choices back down to 8, maybe we could leave England's continental vassals alone, merge Ireland and Wales as is, and give them Brittany as a vassal. We could then give Scotland all of the northern islands and Iceland. Making Ireland the only "double crown" (ie King of Ireland and Wales) would help to make that one more attractive, would bring down the domains to 8, and would alleviate the need to make Wales playable.
Apparently we can't do polls, or otherwise I'd make one.
We should try to decide by tomorrow which way we want to go, so that we have time to mod the scenario before Sunday. Do we want to mod characters only? If so, the choices are:
Scotland, England*, France*, Germany*, Poland*, Hungary*, and two of the following from one of the selections: EITHER Leon, Spanish Galacia, and Castille OR Denmark, Norway, and, Sweeden. The Spanish/Scandinavian and Scottish Kings should be given some sort of advantage to offset their weaker starting position- perhaps a tech advantage, a lot of money to start out with, or freedom from the Crusading restrictions until Deus Vult happens.
If we want to do modding, the choices are:
Scotland, Ireland & Wales, England*, France*, Germany*, Burgundy*, Italy*, and Naples.
We'll need time to get the modding done (especially if we go the latter route), so we'll probably need to start tomorrow to make sure we have time enough to test the scenario and make sure 1) it works and 2) the realms are relatively balanced.
Thus, we need to know how y'all vote: normal kingdoms or modded kingdoms. Let's leave voting open until 12:00 noon (GMT) tomorrow (2 pm in Finland, 8 am US EST.) After that, Byak, Jarkko, and I will get busy modding your characters and, if necessary, your Kingdoms.
We should try to decide by tomorrow which way we want to go, so that we have time to mod the scenario before Sunday. Do we want to mod characters only? If so, the choices are:
Scotland, England*, France*, Germany*, Poland*, Hungary*, and two of the following from one of the selections: EITHER Leon, Spanish Galacia, and Castille OR Denmark, Norway, and, Sweeden. The Spanish/Scandinavian and Scottish Kings should be given some sort of advantage to offset their weaker starting position- perhaps a tech advantage, a lot of money to start out with, or freedom from the Crusading restrictions until Deus Vult happens.
If we want to do modding, the choices are:
Scotland, Ireland & Wales, England*, France*, Germany*, Burgundy*, Italy*, and Naples.
We'll need time to get the modding done (especially if we go the latter route), so we'll probably need to start tomorrow to make sure we have time enough to test the scenario and make sure 1) it works and 2) the realms are relatively balanced.
Thus, we need to know how y'all vote: normal kingdoms or modded kingdoms. Let's leave voting open until 12:00 noon (GMT) tomorrow (2 pm in Finland, 8 am US EST.) After that, Byak, Jarkko, and I will get busy modding your characters and, if necessary, your Kingdoms.
I prefer modding because in non-modded version Germany is just double the size to next biggest land, France. Also in addition to being to biggest land, it is a triple crown with appropriate prestige bonus and great many dukes as vassals.
Besides, seeing some other kingdoms than just the ones that are always there usually could prove to be fun and we will be anyway modding the characters for players, which is actually much bigger job than modding in some new kingdoms.
Well, here is a list of suggestion that pops into my mind:
- Make the counties that are part of Flandern area as vassals for the current duke of Flandern
- Make Normandy part of France with non-Normandies ruling
- Make Brittany part of France
- Make duchy of Bourgogne and it's vassals part of Burgundy
- Make Saluces, Nice and Besancon part of Burgundy
- Create Schwyz as duchy, make it part of Burgundy.
- Create Languedoc as duchy, make it part of Burgundy
- Give Pope's vassals in Romagna area to Italy
- Make Steiermark, Kärnten and Krain part of Italy.
- Duchies of Spoleto and Marches created and part of Naples at start
- Naples (county), Salerno and Capua as vassals of Naples
- Allowance for Naples to freely conquer Sicily and Malta, without that affecting the crusading limit and with no need for "Deus Vult"
- Pat's idea: Combine Ireland & Wales makes it more attractive as double crown as the area is **** poor.
- Western Isles to Scotland or Ireland
- Orkneys to Scotland
- Iceland to Norway
Genoa and Venice are among the richest provinces in the game, so giving them to Italy or Burgundy for free is a bit too much, imo.
Besides, seeing some other kingdoms than just the ones that are always there usually could prove to be fun and we will be anyway modding the characters for players, which is actually much bigger job than modding in some new kingdoms.
Well, here is a list of suggestion that pops into my mind:
- Make the counties that are part of Flandern area as vassals for the current duke of Flandern
- Make Normandy part of France with non-Normandies ruling
- Make Brittany part of France
- Make duchy of Bourgogne and it's vassals part of Burgundy
- Make Saluces, Nice and Besancon part of Burgundy
- Create Schwyz as duchy, make it part of Burgundy.
- Create Languedoc as duchy, make it part of Burgundy
- Give Pope's vassals in Romagna area to Italy
- Make Steiermark, Kärnten and Krain part of Italy.
- Duchies of Spoleto and Marches created and part of Naples at start
- Naples (county), Salerno and Capua as vassals of Naples
- Allowance for Naples to freely conquer Sicily and Malta, without that affecting the crusading limit and with no need for "Deus Vult"
- Pat's idea: Combine Ireland & Wales makes it more attractive as double crown as the area is **** poor.
- Western Isles to Scotland or Ireland
- Orkneys to Scotland
- Iceland to Norway
Genoa and Venice are among the richest provinces in the game, so giving them to Italy or Burgundy for free is a bit too much, imo.
Which is why I also support modding...
The Flanders thing seems fine to me, but I think that England should retain it's Norman holdings and that Brittany should go to the Gaelic Kingdom (Ireland/Wales). Plus, if we give Ireland an interest on the Continent, that would both give the Irish a border with the French and a reason to concern themselves with Continental affairs. It would also give Ireland something France might want, and create a future causus belli between the players.
This seems fine to me, I guess, though you'd probably want to leave Bourgogne in French hands and maybe give them Upper Lorraine frm Germany instead if you put Brittany and Normandy in Gaelic and English hands, respectively.
Or the last line could just read: Transfer the Duchy of Karnten as it exists in the 1066 scenario from Germany to Italy.
You should just give Naples Sicily and Malta. Naples is already going to be one of the smaller Kingdoms in the game. No need to make their lot any more hard-scrabble.
Western Isles definitely to Ireland, Faeryer, Shetland, Caithness (or whatever that Norwegian toehold on the Isle of Brittan is) and Orkney to Scotland.
Why would we leave Iceland in Norway's hands? Norway wouldn't be a PC domain, so leaving them a bit weaker off is fine in my book. I think Iceland should go to Scotland or Ireland (probably Scotland, if we'd give Brittany to Ireland.)
Well, look at it this way- Giving Genoa to Burgundy and Venice to Italy would help compensate them for having smaller domains than some of the other Kingdoms. That's why we debate these things. Of course, the vote stands 2-2 at the time of this writing, so it may be a moot point of discussion if a majority oppose modding the Kingdoms.
I would be completely fine with modding, except that I can't play as Poland in that version...
Can I claim The King of Italy title? 
I would like to be France, but i can live with Italy and in third option scotland
I would like to be France, but i can live with Italy and in third option scotland
Patrucio said:
Well, I was just thinking for something to compensate for giving stuff to Burgundy...
Patrucio said:
Give France Upper Lorraine then, but Burgundy really needs Bourgogne...
Patrucio said:
Well, it can be said like that too.
Patrucio said:
Well, if we just give them Sicily and Malta, I would suggest we remove the moslem tech in Sicily then.
Patrucio said:
Because Iceland is practically worthless and it doesn't sound a logical part of either Scotland or Ireland. Well, it could be left independent as it is normally in 1066.
Patrucio said:
Well, I would really see Burgundy gain Bourgogne and Lanquedoc instead. Leaving Genoa, Venice and Pisa independent leaves some very juicy targets to fight for in the game. Also Italy is the richest kingdom in average province income, so I don't think it needs boost that badly.
Also we could create Bohemia at start, so that any enterprising Germany won't create it.
Casluerj said:Can I claim The King of Italy title?
Italy (already claimed by Lincoln) and France (claimed by Hyzenhok) are spoken for, but Scotland is still available. So, Scotland it is!
Well, I guess giving France Upper Lorraine would work, too...
That would be a fine compromise.
Iceland could logically be part of Scotland- it was given to them as war indemnities by Norway along with the rest of the north Atlantic islands. We should explain our historical revisionism somewhat, if only to create background under which to RP, so it's as reasonable for Scotland to have it as to not.
Anyways, let's mod up the scenario and run it hands-off a bit to test the relative balance between the realms.
Once again, let's leave them independent, then, and run the scenario for balance.
Also we could create Bohemia at start, so that any enterprising Germany won't create it.
Definitely an option if Germany's still too strong in the scenario.
With the plucking of Scotland by Caserluj, that would leave us with the Gaelic Kingdom of Ireland & Wales and Kingdom of Naples in the modded scenario as the only remaining slots in the mod game.
**Nudge, nudge, Byak- pick a realm, you only have 2 choices left**
**Nudge, nudge, Byak- pick a realm, you only have 2 choices left
**
I pick the evil and hateful Normans who will kill the men and do nasty things to women when conquering. Aka Naples.
I have already modded a "Kingdoms Mod" - scenario with all mentioned changes except for Sicily, Malta and Iceland so far. If desired I can pack it in a nice Zip after doing the stuff for Sicily, Malta and Iceland and send it to everyone who desires it.
I have already modded a "Kingdoms Mod" - scenario with all mentioned changes except for Sicily, Malta and Iceland so far. If desired I can pack it in a nice Zip after doing the stuff for Sicily, Malta and Iceland and send it to everyone who desires it.
E-Mail it to me when you're done, Byak, and I'll host it so that it can be DL'd from the forum. e-addy is : bear AT provide DOT net, substituting the symbols for the words, of course.
I vote for modding.
I do not think England should lose her continental lands, else we will see just England smack the crap out of Ireland-Wales in a private war.
I do not think England should lose her continental lands, else we will see just England smack the crap out of Ireland-Wales in a private war.