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Both Burgundy and Italy benefit from the ability to create new duchy titles at start, which allows them to change money to prestige. Besides, personal demesne isn't that important, because you can mobilize vassal's troops and take scutage.
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What I was also thinking about was war. During war, personal demense determines how long you can fight before you are forced to accept whatever peace your enemy wahts to push off on you. The more provinces you have, the longer it takes to forcibly subjugate you. I think demense is important for reasons of wealth, but I also think it important for pure survivability.

I'd rather give Burgundy just Forcalquier and Dauphine Viennois, with Dauphine being the important one, as it allows Burgundy to create titles.
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OK.

On similiar issue, I'd give Italy Treviso instead, to give Italy this ability too. Brescia and Montferrato are not part of any uncreated title.
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OK.

Scotland and Ireland benefit from being on the side, where they can't be attacked from all directions like France and Germany. But it may be good for balance to make it unified Gaelic crown. But I don't think they need additional demesne after that, because they have actually have huge prestige accumulating from triple-king and very many small duchies as vassals.
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I'll test it like that, then, without the additional personal demense.

England doesn't need to be toned down, because England seems rich only because of original William the Superman de Normandie, who could make desert spawn gold. England is province-wise poorer than France, Germany, Italy or Burgundy, which isn't just realized as AI never takes scutage and thus Personal Demesne's value is significantly overrated. If Germany or France put's scutage to 50% or higher, they definetly will have most money.
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I'll leave England be, then.
 
Patrucio said:
What I was also thinking about was war. During war, personal demense determines how long you can fight before you are forced to accept whatever peace your enemy wahts to push off on you. The more provinces you have, the longer it takes to forcibly subjugate you. I think demense is important for reasons of wealth, but I also think it important for pure survivability.
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Well, I'd say kings should realize that they have lost and try to sue for peace when their all their army is defeated, which is usually needed to put all of their demesne under siege, because if king really wants to fight to bitter end, his losses will prolly be much more significant than if he makes peace when it's clear he has lost.

We could also make a house rule that forbids dismantling kingdoms by getting claim to all king's demesne provs and then taking them in a peace, because it's just an exploit really. If king of Germany has claim on every province held directly by king of Burgundy, king of Germany should first allow king of Burgundy to revoke a new province to himself from his vassals and then the peace can be concluded.

Or if king of Germany wants to dismantle kingdom of Burgundy, he should get claim on the title "king of Burgundy" and force that in the war.
 
Looking at the characters I get my precognition turned on again.

Houuuummmmmm, houummmmmmmmmmmmmm....

I sense... Louis de Turenne will need his high martial skill, because his piety will drop to below zero real fast -> excommunication

I sense... William de Hauteville will need his high martial skill, because his diplomatic rating and Kinslayer will result in vassals breaking away

I sense... either heavy warfare or a super-strong alliance between England and the United Kingdom of Gaels (there is no middle way there!)
 
Byakhiam said:
Or if king of Germany wants to dismantle kingdom of Burgundy, he should get claim on the title "king of Burgundy" and force that in the war.
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I agree on that. However, those with multiple King titles will surely be extempt to that rule?
 
Jarkko Suvinen said:
I sense... Louis de Turenne will need his high martial skill, because his piety will drop to below zero real fast -> excommunication
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I just need to give loads of money to church monthly and try to choose "no-piety-loss, but some bad stuff instead" options in events...

Jarkko Suvinen said:
I sense... William de Hauteville will need his high martial skill, because his diplomatic rating and Kinslayer will result in vassals breaking away
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That I noted too, no random chancellor will save him...

Jarkko Suvinen said:
I agree on that. However, those with multiple King titles will surely be extempt to that rule?
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Well, if king of England wants to be king of Scotland too, he can force that with a valid claim in war if he wins. Of course king of Scotland will remain king of Ireland and Wales afterwards.
 
ARGH again!

Byak, I officially request that you finish the modding and then send it to me. I can't quite figure out what it is I'm missing, but my last four hours have been four hours of CTDs while trying to get my edits to take. What's more, my daughter should be waking up soon and I have a busy day at work today, so I'm not sure how much more time I have to tinker with things.

I would kick my computer if I were a more dim-witted person. :D
 
I sense... either heavy warfare or a super-strong alliance between England and the United Kingdom of Gaels (there is no middle way there!)
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That's not true. There are plenty of situations that could result in a tense peace between hostile neighbors. For example: there could be a situation where Gaels are allied to, say, France and Germany. England would have to be retarded to start a fight them in that circumstance given the overwhelming strength of Scotland's allies, and the Gaels would be ill-advised to rely on the good will and support of their allies in an offensive war. Both would be forced to accept the status quo, at least for a while...
 
I can certainly do it as I know how easily it gives CTD and how hard it is to track the causes down.

I can also add up the characters already made by assorted players and kill the ones who should be dead or not necessary or whatever. :)

EDIT: Also I will give all kings 250 gold at start, instead of 25 gold times personal demesne provs.
 
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Patrucio said:
That's not true. There are plenty of situations that could result in a tense peace between hostile neighbors. For example: there could be a situation where Gaels are allied to, say, France and Germany. England would have to be retarded to start a fight them in that circumstance given the overwhelming strength of Scotland's allies, and the Gaels would be ill-advised to rely on the good will and support of their allies in an offensive war. Both would be forced to accept the status quo, at least for a while...
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For a while maybe, but AFAICS in the long run Gaels and England have to decide either to be allied or not. I am open to both possibilities :)
 
We could also make a house rule that forbids dismantling kingdoms by getting claim to all king's demesne provs and then taking them in a peace, because it's just an exploit really. If king of Germany has claim on every province held directly by king of Burgundy, king of Germany should first allow king of Burgundy to revoke a new province to himself from his vassals and then the peace can be concluded.
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Why all this talk about Germany conquoring Burgundy? I think I am being maligned before the game even begins. ;)

Speaking of house rules, we should prolly clarify what they are going to be. There will be the usual ones:

1) Inheritance laws MUST be semi-sallic (elective might be OK, too- I'm still not sure what we decided on that one.)
2) No attacking the Pagans and Muslims until the Pope calls for crusades.
3) You must wait five years after the end of your last crusading war before you can begin another one.
4) Don't use exploits (like the one Byak pointed out above)
5) Contribute to the group AAR.

Given the nature of this game, I have a few more suggestions for your fine consideration:

1) No stealing your vassal's sieges in pagan/muslim lands before crusades are called for. You may join in the wars, but may only defend yourself and your vassal's lands from heathen attacks.

2) After crusades are called, you may join in any crusade started by a vassal.

3) Until the beginning of 1083, you may only marry people from your own country, either in your court or in the courts of your vassals. Exception: you may marry from the courts of the other players, should they be so willing. This rule is officially called the "Agnes de Acquitine/France Preservation Rule" :D The year 1083 was chosen because that is the year any child born in 1067 will turn 16.

4) You may only form alliances with Catholic realms. This rule is called the "Keep the Byzantine Empire out of the West Rule."

Other ideas welcome, too.
 
Patrucio said:
3) Until the beginning of 1083, you may only marry people from your own country, either in your court or in the courts of your vassals. Exception: you may marry from the courts of the other players, should they be so willing. This rule is officially called the "Agnes de Acquitine/France Preservation Rule" The year 1083 was chosen because that is the year any child born in 1067 will turn 16.
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Then AI will marry Agnes and France loses that land anyway. Much better fix: Give Agnes a brother.

EDIT: And you forgot: "Only one attempt to vasallize per country per year."
 
Because nobody else will be having any relatives in their court, I need to put Philippe Capet in some place. I thought I'd make him duke of Bordeaux to break the big Aquitane down a bit.

And also send little brother Hugues with him.

And Adele, wife of Baouduin de Flandre went to Flanders.
 
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Some things I intend to do to Naples:

1) I'll remove the greek count of Naples and make the count of Salerno also count of Naples. It's plain silly that I have an orthodox greek guy as a vassal...

2) I'll create a crap statted brother for myself (and a dead father also, obviously) to be count of Taranto, to replace Abelard de Hauteville.

3) De Hauteville women will find refuge in Papal States, men will be slain, with the exception of Sterk's char.
 
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De Hauteville women will find refuge in Papal States, men will be slain, with the exception of Sterk's char.
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Was that in character or out of character? ;)
 
Then AI will marry Agnes and France loses that land anyway. Much better fix: Give Agnes a brother.
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Yes. That would be a better way about it...

EDIT: And you forgot: "Only one attempt to vasallize per country per year."
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You're right, I did.

EDIT: Once Caserluj posts his character stats (history can come later, so long as it's up before the Finns go to bed tomorrow), I'll insert the character into the scenario and then post it to the thread for everyone to download.
 
Patrucio said:
Was that in character or out of character? ;)
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Out of naturually, because I killed them already, with my ten fingers. ;)

Btw, I sent the modded version into your mailbox.
 
Jarkko Suvinen said:
For a while maybe, but AFAICS in the long run Gaels and England have to decide either to be allied or not. I am open to both possibilities :)
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Well, that's true, but that's also true for England and France, etc.
 
Could I possibly have Bohemond, Roger Borsa, and all my brothers appointed as counts (Bohemond preferrably as Duke of Burgougne, if I get that as a vassal) or in the courts of those who were appointed counts/dukes?\

EDIT: Also, DNA for William is 05040211020306.

And will we make secondary characters?
 
Here are the finalized realm boundaries, in care anyone is biting at the chomp:


1.jpg

The Continent

2.jpg

Scotland and England
​
 
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