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I don't think you can get around that Allied/Axis tag-team. I never could anyway but you are doing much better than I did. However, I wonder if once the war is in full swing, if you will be able to join if/after you DOW on the Axis?
Very nice efforts on your updates man. Very nice work...as usual. <imvho> What you have created for a Turkey-AAR is a pretty amazing vision and work.<thumbs-up)
I am delighted to see that Turkey is perfecting it's diplomatic language and has learnt that "An unjustified wars of aggression" is an irregular verb; I liberate the oppressed in neighbouring countries, you bring a flawed form of democracy to the region, he is a bully of small powers, they carry out unjustified wars of aggression.
If they hadn't got that right, some people might start asking pointed questions about the Greek, Persian and many Yugoslavs right to self determination and why they didn't need help standing up to Turkish bullying and invasion. And that would just be awkward.
but does not feel strong enough to provide any unilateral security guarantee: the UK, France and Russia would need to commit to the full sovereignty of Czechoslovakia before Turkey could join such an agreement. Were it to transpire, Turkey may well consider joining such a pact, catching the Germans before they are fully rearmed.
I hate to break it to Attaturk and his colleagues, but if the UK, France and Russia all issue guarantees on something (and mean it) then absolutely no-one cares in the slightest what Turkey thinks.
Such trifles aside I salute your industrious work in producing so many updates so quickly, such efforts are truly Stakhanovite and will attract the praise and awe of all true workers. And Stalin.
Plenty to go through, so I'll do a 'group reply' in general and pick up a few of the points you have each raised, but will try not to over-complicate it. I need to play the next month through, which promises to be full of world events, though hopefully quiet for Turkey. We wish to keep our heads down for a while now, build up, and hope our opponents thrash themselves to death so we can step in later to pick up the pieces. Mercenary and scavenger-like I know, but, as Clint Eastwood once said as 'Dirty' Harry Callahan in Magnum Force: "A man's got to know his limitations." Same goes for a wannabe middle power trying to swim with the big fish!
I was able to crank out the extra chapter yesterday (Saturday my time) as I finally found myself with a decent slab of spare time after an extremely busy time at work and some travel (work and for some difficult family issues interstate). And the outbreak of peace (unusual for Turkey in this AAR) means the turns go quicker and the write-ups (and picture editing) are far easier. And I just like the writing and what I'm developing into the 'curating' of each chapter, with the addition of a little media content.
I basically write and present for a living, so it's nice to do it recreationally! It's a bit of the old historian coming out in me too (which I did a Bachelor's in way, way back when). I won't necessarily always be able to keep up the same pace, but will make hay as the sun shines . And your (collective) support and that of other readers really helps too - makes it far easier and more pleasurable when you know there is someone on the other end . Hint: any readers who are potential new commenters, please feel free: I don't bite and comments can be as long or short as you like; and don't need to turn into a longer term commitment if you don't want them to .
'Kelebek': many thanks for the 'in-character' and supportive comments! Because I am (for me) in pretty much uncharted waters game-wise, I really don't know how much of my ill-gotten Balkan gains I'll be able to keep or (if lost in an initial onslaught) take back later. It will largely depend on events that I hope to shape and take advantage of a little, but are essentially beyond my (Turkey's) control. And Luca ultimately knew where his duty lay: he will show himself no more mercy than he shows anyone else . But that picture of him looking so uncertain (waiting to speak to his 'Godfather', Ogel) was just too good to pass up. Also gave a chance for a bit of his back-story to be told and to remind us even Luca Brasi is not indestructible. As for Winston, if we didn't provide the Scotch and cigars he (or someone else) would! I think he'll be good for a few years yet.
markkur and Kelebek: Yes, the latest German influence campaign was an irritating reverse, but expected. Remember, at one stage it got to fewer than 30 points from the magic 50 mark, and we are still well ahead of the originally predicted time of being able to join the Comintern (December 1939), which did factor in these kind of reverses. My research indicated that the power of German influence tends to decrease the more they do nasty things in Europe, and they're only just getting warmed up on that front. Bearing in mind where it started, there is time yet. With persistence we will get there, I'm sure of it. What we'll find once there, I'm not so sure!
El Pip: Yes, you spotted that bit of diplomatic sophistry (or more frankly, evasive and hypocritical double-speak), but that's the game here . "I'm an individual; you are eccentric; he is stark staring mad!". And yes, absolutely true re Turkey's impact: it's pretty much what the statement was saying, except I have to do it in a way that makes Turkey seem more significant than it is, while recognising the sad reality of the situation and reconciling our desire for others to stand up directly to Hitler, while fully appreciating we are unable to back up our rhetoric on the ground - yet, anyway. It almost certainly (or completely certainly, not sure if the French back-down on Czechoslovakia when playing as AI is 100% or just highly likely) won't be called on in any case. I would seriously consider piling on if the others did, but that isn't going to happen, so the narrative is part treating it all as undecided (alt history written live style) and part empty gesturing (which is easy to get away with when you strictly control the domestic press).
I'm off to see what September 1938 has in store now. It's bound to be significant, whatever happens. We shall see how the Czech's "ring of paper" goes against Chamberlain's "slip of paper". Alas, Hitler appears to have the scissors and poor Beneš and the Czechs will sink like a rock - with all those tanks filling out German panzer divisions.
"An unjustified wars of aggression" is an irregular verb; I liberate the oppressed in neighbouring countries, you bring a flawed form of democracy to the region, he is a bully of small powers, they carry out unjustified wars of aggression.
Plenty to go through, so I'll do a 'group reply' in general and pick up a few of the points you have each raised, but will try not to over-complicate it.
Hint: any readers who are potential new commenters, please feel free: I don't bite and comments can be as long or short as you like; and don't need to turn into a longer term commitment if you don't want them to .
Chapter 50: ‘Peace for Our Time’ (1 to 30 September 1938)
Editor's Foreword. Well, the muse is upon me and this is a big alt-hist update, so here goes my third instalment for the weekend. The Path to Glory must be taken with a bold stride :
1) It’s Chapter 50 – huzzah! That deserves a little celebration (although it’s actually my 51st, as I did a part A/B one for Chap 16). In about four and-a-bit months of our time – I’m happy with that.
2) Plus, it’s the Munich Agreement! It gets a decent screen in the game (as such things go in HoI3), but in the real world this was a very big and prolonged event at the time – and it didn’t just happen over-night. I’ve tried to convey some of that in previous chapters, and this one contains many of the real-world events and reports from the time, but with some dates changed (this one came on three weeks earlier than in OTL), events compressed and names altered too (due to Government changes in the HoI3 alt world not exactly replicating those in OTL, which is fair enough).
So, alt-hist nerds out there, buckle up! The familiar tragedy of Czechoslovakia's betrayal will be played out with just enough little twists to make it seem very close, but a little different to, the real world version.
Movie Prologue
Oh, the dark days that are upon us! We need something to cheer us up and perhaps even put a bit of steel back into the weak spines of those Ministers cringing in the UK Cabinet Room. Our hearts yearn for something heroic, uplifting, dashing …
Back in Ankara, BJ Guildenstern knows just the thing for improving morale, and it comes straight from Hollywood! He is talking to his boss, the new Chief of Propaganda Kurban Kuzu*.
* You can try Google Translate on that one, if you like. Darth Kelebek will appreciate it. Don't worry, it's not rude - just fitting.
Braanszon Guildenstern in Hollywood movie producer mode.
“With the doom of Fascism casting its heavy pall over Europe, what we need is a hero!” says Braanszon, in fruity cinema voice-over style. “What the Czechs could really do with is this guy running England. But even if it’s probably too late now for Beneš, we can at least watch it and yearn for better times. If you agree, we’ll get a translated version pronto and start distributing it to cheer up the populace.”
“So, what do you have for us, Guildenstern,” asks Kuzu.
“I’m glad you asked boss,” BJ says.
He leans over to Persephonee, who can’t wait to start up the movie projector they have set up for reviewing newsreels and movie trailers. She is red hot for the male lead in this one.
“Let it rip, Perse," he whispers.
She flicks the projector switch…
(1:47 min)
“Oh yes, that looks good,” enthuses Kuzu. “Let’s get an advanced copy sent over to the President for a private viewing, I’m sure it would cheer him up.”
Alas, back now to the ‘real alternate world’ of cut-throat international politics.
1 Sep 38
After the strong German influence campaign in Turkey last month, this is where our Comintern alignment strategy sits. Delayed maybe, but not defeated. We must lean into the hill as the Path leads up into more difficult country.
News Report: Berchtesgaden, Germany. Sudeten German leader Konrad Henlein met with Hitler at the Berghof.
No doubt to be given instructions for the 'agit-prop' program that is building momentum.
2 Sep 38
News Report: Alexandretta, Syria. Seats are allocated in the Sanjak of Alexandretta. Turkish candidates won 22 of 40 seats, creating the conditions for the declaration of a new Turkish-aligned state.
News Report: Berlin, Germany.Hitler meets with the Polish ambassador Józef Lipski and told him that Germany would support Poland in a conflict with Czechoslovakia over Teschen (Polish: Cieszyn).
5 Sep 38
News Report: Santiago, Chile. Rebels associated with Nazi Germany launch a failed coup attempt.
News Report: Nuremberg, Germany. Hitler makes a bombastic speech in Nuremberg declaring that the oppression of Sudeten Germans must end. The speech was broadcast live to the United States by CBS Radio and was the first time that many Americans had ever heard Hitler speak.
News Report: London, UK. The British cabinet held a meeting almost as soon as Hitler was finished speaking. They were relieved that he had only demanded “justice” for Sudeten Germans and had not committed himself to war. The British and French had already agreed between themselves to accede to most of Hitler’s demands and not provide any security guarantees to the Czechs. They now inform the Czechs of this decision.
The UK leadership at the time of the Munich Talks: it’s a Constitutional Monarchy so the King
can’t be blamed, but the rest? Craven, pigeon-hearted appeasers and jelly-backs! Chamberlain
fulfils his Naïve Optimist tag, while the only dagger Foreign Minister Ernest Bevin has used is
currently residing in Czech President Beneš’s back!
News Report: Prague, Czechoslovakia.The Czech government rejected the Anglo-French proposal in a note explaining that acceptance would mean that Czechoslovakia would be put "sooner or later under the complete domination of Germany." Their objections were over-ridden. The Czechs mobilised their military.
Czech artillery, mobilised and ready for action on the German border.
7 Sep 38
News Report: Alexandretta, Syria. Hatay State is created, still within the territory of the Sanjak of Alexandretta of the French (League of Nations) Mandate of Syria.
News Report: Prague, Czechoslovakia. On instructions from Hitler, Konrad Henlein breaks off negotiations with the Czech government. Allegations of Czech police brutality at Moravská Ostrava were used as an excuse.
News Report: London, UK. A famously controversial editorial appears in The Times which recommends giving Hitler what he wanted because “the advantages to Czechoslovakia of becoming a homogenous State might conceivably outweigh the obvious disadvantages of losing the Sudeten German districts of the borderland.”
News Report: Prague, Czechoslovakia.The British and French ambassadors in Prague inform Czech President Edvard Beneš that his country will have to accept their plan or face Germany alone.
Sounds like "an offer they can't refuse".The utter shame of it is that the French and British are the ones holding the gun to the Czech's heads, on Hitler's behalf. As Luca Brasi said once to Ambassador Vito Ceylan in Bucharest (channelling Al Pacino in Donnie Brasco, from another universe and time): "When they send for you, you go in alive, you come out dead, and it's your best friend that does it."
8 Sep 38
A new garrison brigade is brought into service in Izmir, combining with the existing unit there to form the 1st Garrison Division.
PM Inönü and Calistar (the latter as both Armaments Minister and Chief of Staff) confer on what to set the production effort to next. The decision is taken to further develop the existing fortifications in Athina, with a view to creating the building blocks for a new Iskandar Line in Patra and Athina. Patra already has the defences of a water gap (amphibious landing defensive bonus), so Athina's defences will be further improved first. They hope Turkey will be given the time bring them to sufficient standard and stock them with enough troops to provide a difficult obstacle for any attacker to breach. The way current events in Czechoslovakia are coming to a head, we need to make ourselves as difficult to attack as possible and not rely on anyone else to bail us out.
News Report: Sudetenland, Czechoslovakia.Sudeten Germans begin attacking police stations and other symbols of Czechoslovak authority, causing the government to declare martial law.
News Report: Paris, France.The French government announces that France would not enter a war purely over Czechoslovakia. Meanwhile, in London, Neville Chamberlain gave a radio address saying, “However much we may sympathize with a small nation confronted by a big and powerful neighbour, we cannot in all circumstances undertake to involve the whole British Empire in a war simply on her account. If we have to fight it must be on larger issues than that.”
This perhaps indicates why Turkey’s far more measured, anti-Fascist expansion this year and last was never going to trigger a hostile response from the West.
News Report: Warsaw, Poland.Poland submitted an ultimatum to Czechoslovakia demanding the annexation of Teschen/Cieszyn.
So not even a chance of help for the Czechs from that direction either – indeed, the opposite.
News Report: Munich, Germany.That evening, the British and French Prime Ministers fly out to meet Hitler and Mussolini in Munich to discuss the fate of Czechoslovakia – without the Czech’s presence.
[Ed. OTL lead-up events telescoped and simplified a little here as the Munich Agreement has occurred earlier in this alt-time line than the real one, which was at the end of the month. The OTL lead-up was fairly drawn out and involved the British and French imposing their solution on the Czechs, which was the position ultimately taken to Munich.]
9 Sep 38 – The Munich Agreement
In the morning, Calistar reports to the War Cabinet on where Turkey’s IC is currently distributed. The slight increase in Consumer Goods required (which is attributed to the premium being paid for keeping the Army mobilised) is noted, but is no serious problem. Even though set to 0, supplies are abundant and in fact still accumulating. This allows the great bulk of the budget to be sunk into production. One reason quite a bit is now being put into infrastructure projects such as forts, or low MP projects such as a new transport fleet is to preserve precious Manpower resources. We need enough in reserve to be able to sustain anticipated heavy losses in prolonged and intense trench warfare to protect the Glorious Union from the Fascist threat.
That evening, announcements are made on the outcome of the four-power summit in Munich. As we feared, Hitler has got away with it again. The Turkish Government is glad it acted when it did, to forestall similar results in the Balkans.
At precisely the same time [in-game], the latest British influence campaign in Turkey ends. Whether a coincidence or not, it is an extremely appropriate reflection of the esteem with which official UK Government policy is held in Ankara right now: zilch.
Chamberlain flies straight back to London and delivers his verdict on the day’s doings: “My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. And now I recommend you go home and sleep quietly in your beds.”
(1:41 min)
Neville Chamberlain returns to London bearing his ‘Peace for our time’ message. Many were supportive at the time and were just happy to have avoided war.
But we all know what is almost certain to happen soon (though exactly when, who can tell).
In OTL, French PM Daladier's last government was in power at the time of the negotiations preceding the Munich Agreement, when France backed out of its obligations to defend Czechoslovakia against Nazi Germany. Given it is Albert Sarraut who is French PM in this alt-time line, we will attribute the actions taken by the French to Sarraut [described in HoI3 as a ‘Happy Amateur’ – just what you want at a time like this ] and Albert Lebrun [the President in both time lines, so we can blame him].
The French were pushed into negotiating by Britain's Neville Chamberlain. Unlike Chamberlain, Daladier had no illusions about Hitler's ultimate goals. In fact, he told the British in a late April 1938 meeting that Hitler's real aim was to eventually secure “a domination of the Continent in comparison with which the ambitions of Napoleon were feeble.”
For narrative purposes, we shall take Daladier’s words below as commentary made to the French leadership immediately after the Munich Agreement was made, where he reluctantly agrees they had no alternative given the UK’s position, but still doesn’t like it.
Daladier went on to say: “Today, it is the turn of Czechoslovakia. Tomorrow, it will be the turn of Poland and Romania. When Germany has obtained the oil and wheat it needs, she will turn on the West. Certainly we must multiply our efforts to avoid war. But that will not be obtained unless Great Britain and France stick together, intervening in Prague for new concessions but declaring at the same time that they will safeguard the independence of Czechoslovakia. If, on the contrary, the Western Powers capitulate again, they will only precipitate the war they wish to avoid.”
Nevertheless, perhaps discouraged by the pessimistic and defeatist attitudes of both military and civilian members of the French government, as well as traumatised by France's blood-bath in World War I that he personally witnessed, Daladier ultimately agreed Chamberlain must have his way. On Sarraut’s return to Paris from Munich, Daladier expected a hostile crowd to greet him, but instead Sarraut was acclaimed. Daladier then commented to his aide, Alexis Léger: "Ah, les cons (morons)!"
10 Sep 38
Newspaper reporting of this momentous event is varied. Not all either saw, or at least wished to confront, the implications of the backdown that had just been negotiated. Many saw Chamberlain as a great statesman. Suggestions to honour his great services to peace continue to be made in many parts of Europe. The French nation is now concentrating on how it can repay "the first artisan of peace", with many proposals for renaming streets, starting funds and erecting statues in the French press.
Le Figaro states that the British prime minister should be immediately invited to Paris so that all can acclaim him. One paper suggests starting a fund so that monuments and statues might be erected to the "saviour of modern Europe" in every capital in the world. Strasbourg has overnight renamed streets: the Avenue de la Paix is now the Avenue Neville Chamberlain. The assertion that Chamberlain should receive the Nobel peace prize, says the Stockholm Tidningen [newspaper], is warmly supported in all quarters in Sweden and Norway, and England.
In London, the editorial of the Guardian the following day [Ed. Quoted here because it was made without the benefit of hindsight and therefore has some alt history credibility – not just us wise after the fact modern day types], while noting peace had been obtained, also observed that :
No one in this country who examines carefully the terms under which Hitler's troops begin their march into Czecho-Slovakia to-day can feel other than unhappy. Certainly the Czechs will hardly appreciate Mr. Chamberlain's “peace with honour.”
If Germany's aim were the economic and financial destruction of Czecho-Slovakia the Munich agreement goes far to satisfy her. But, while the Czechs may suffer economically, they have the political protection of an international guarantee.
What is it worth? Will Britain and France come to the aid of an unarmed Czecho-Slovakia when they would not help her in her strength?
Politically Czecho-Slovakia is rendered helpless, with all that that means to the balance of forces in Eastern Europe, and Hitler will be able to advance again, when he chooses, with greatly increased power.
The New York Times was less sanguine than some as well.
In alternate Czechoslovakia, Beneš remains President after Munich [rather than the Government resigning as it did in OTL]. But his nation's position is now terribly weakened, its border defences now in German hands and without any friends willing to support them. They are just swinging in the wind.
11 Sep 38
Poland also enforces its demands on the Czechs to seize Teschen (now rendered in Polish as Cieszyn), as arranged with Germany as part of the Munich Agreement process.
Polish armour rolls into Cieszyn to reclaim an ancient piece of 'lost' Polish territory from the hapless Czechs.
For the rest of the world, the immediate impact of the Munich Agreement begins to sink in, but it will take time to be fully revealed. After many tempestuous weeks fretting over the Czech Crisis, news sheets suddenly revert to more mundane and less urgent issues, while many people throughout Europe breathe a great sigh of relief. But not in Czechoslovakia. And not in the Turkish Embassy in Rome either, as new Ambassador Vito Ceylan arrives with his new Cultural Attache, Mr Luigi Vercotti (aka Luca Brasi).
Well, that (The Sudeten-Czech Crisis) is one less thing for them to have to report on to Ankara: everything happened more quickly than had been expected, as they disembark from their aircraft to a post-Munich world of international affairs. It feels to them like the top of a slippery slope: they are both very familiar with the kind of “offer” the Czechs had just been presented with. It is one you want to be giving, not receiving. It also means that Turkey’s plans to formally join an alliance faction (the Czechs were not part of one and had been given no formal guarantees of independence) take on even greater significance. Because this is what can happen if you don’t have full treaty protections! The Turks say this without a hint of self-critical irony: the expansion of Turkey’s Glorious Union is different, clearly!
15 Sep 38
Better news from the domestic front, where peace, strength – and seeking ironclad guarantees from powerful neighbours - have never looked better! Advances in agricultural practices will help increase our critical (and limited) manpower reserves. Civil Defence is now pursued to help build our resilience and ability to withstand tough battlefield casualties. Rest assured, we will not be adopting the Czech ‘ring of paper for the defence of the homeland’ approach to civil defence (not that the Turkey of today has been prone to such whimsy).
And another new mountain division has been produced: it will reinforce MAJGEN Türkes’ 2 Mtn Div when it arrives shortly in Canakkale (which it does three days later). Nice timing indeed! Both mountain divisions are now at 3 x MTN bde strength. We will eventually press for four each in due course.
19 Sep 38
With events developing in Hatay, the 1st Gar Bde now arrives in Islahye, ready to occupy Iskenderun once arrangements have been made with France – if they do indeed make good on their word. Note to cynical observers: this is nothing like Sudetenland. For a start, the power relationships are very different. Though one of the same jelly-backed cravens (ie. France) is sitting on the other side of the desk as faced the Fascists in Munich, so chances are they will accede to our far better and more moderately pursued case. Some of Turkey’s practices in Hatay may have been a little ‘forward-leaning’, but never approached the bombast and threat Hitler did. One little Garrison Brigade, standing ready to provide civil order and stability, is hardly the Wehrmacht!
25 Sep 38
The 2nd Gar Div is created when the latest new garrison brigade is added to Alanya. The initial protection for key Turkish ports in depth is coming together. Once there is a two-brigade garrison or militia division in each, full efforts will switch back again to regular troops, fortifications and eventually some key infrastructure improvements, if they can be afforded (and in light of probable continuing manpower shortages).
The latest IC released for new projects is allocated to building a first level of fortifications in Patra, to supplement its natural defences and start to flesh out the Iskandar Line. Unlike Canakkale (its equivalent on the Calistar Line) it does not have mountainous terrain and it will not have the same number and calibre of troops to support its defence, so fortifications are needed.
29 Sep 38
Another new AT brigade is finished. It is added to the partly-completed 6th Inf Div (Spt) which is being raised in Üsküdar, and will be used either to reinforce the Calistar Line or perhaps to help establish the mooted Iskandar Line in southern Greece, once a credible force can be allocated for that purpose.
30 Sep 38
French counter-espionage strength is slowly building and is now at 4 (up from 2 last month). While we have not lost any spies yet, we may need to increase c-e emphasis again if it creeps any higher.
Coming up: With the ‘excitement’ of the Czech Crisis and the Munich Agreement now over, will another ‘Shaky Peace’ prevail? Will Chamberlain be confirmed by history as a great statesman and peacemaker, or a gullible blunderer who sacrificed his nation’s honour and removed the brakes from the Fascist Juggernaut? Alternate history will eventually pronounce its verdict. But in the meantime, Turkey will busily continue re-arming and building its defences. And increasing the cigar and whisky allowances for both our Ambassador in London and our special security advisor, Lord El Pip. Either for spreading as largesse (especially to Winston Churchill) ... or for them, when the job gets just a bit too hard (like talking to Chamberlain after Munich).
I have recently made contact with an official in the British civil service to understand the appeasement policy. He explains that the current belief of the Foreign Office is that engaging in a war with Hitler over Eastern Europe would, at best, leave Eastern Europe under a Communist dictatorship instead of a Fascist dictatorship as Stalin will doubtless leap in to steal the spoils. This change of dictator could take years of war and only be obtained at a cost of millions of lives, the ruination of the country and the end of the British Empire.
I am forced to concede he raises an excellent point. With such abilities and insights I believe this Humphrey Appleby fellow might go far in the service.
Cute. 'sacrifice lamb' seems really blunt. Even more so than 'sacrificial'. I guess they couldn't be bothered to pay for the extra letters for the sign they stuck around the goat-I mean, official's neck.
The British and French ambassadors in Prague inform Czech President Edvard Beneš that his country will have to accept their plan or face Germany alone.
I have recently made contact with an official in the British civil service to understand the appeasement policy. He explains that the current belief of the Foreign Office is that engaging in a war with Hitler over Eastern Europe would, at best, leave Eastern Europe under a Communist dictatorship instead of a Fascist dictatorship as Stalin will doubtless leap in to steal the spoils. This change of dictator could take years of war and only be obtained at a cost of millions of lives, the ruination of the country and the end of the British Empire.
I am forced to concede he raises an excellent point. With such abilities and insights I believe this Humphrey Appleby fellow might go far in the service.
He's also full of shit. Administraion staff especially would know how doomed the empire was at this point, as well as the enevitbly huge war coming against the communists or the the fascist [as laid out in exquisite detail in a certain story of yours]. Yes, the eastern front is a problem because attacking one of the powers means the other will take Advantage. But you need to find a way round it rather than worry. I mean, if you do nothing they'll fight you anyway.
He's also full of shit. Administraion staff especially would know how doomed the empire was at this point, as well as the enevitbly huge war coming against the communists or the the fascists. Yes, the eastern front is a problem because attacking one of the powers means the other will take Advantage. But you need to find a way round it rather than worry. I mean, if you do nothing they'll fight you anyway.
And that is why you will not go far in the service, you do have to stop projecting your own prejudices onto things.
I've got to admit that it would be funny if the HOI3 AI belatedly misfires due all those Turkish annexations and WW2 doesn't kick off. Hitler keeps his word and Chamberlain and Daladier share a Noble Peace Prize.
And that is why you will not go far in the service, you do have to stop projecting your own prejudices onto things.
I've got to admit that it would be funny if the HOI3 AI belatedly misfires due all those Turkish annexations and WW2 doesn't kick off. Hitler keeps his word and Chamberlain and Daladier share a Noble Peace Prize.
Hmmm, if it doesn't fire at all, the Turkish Government may have to find a way to light the fuse and have a Communist Juggernaut do exactly what young Appleby predicts! Alas, no Nobel Prize for anyone and a dank prison cell for the young Humphrey for being right, but on the wrong side of history . Say, around 1943?
Anyway, I've tried not to do anything game-breaking, but who knows?
Pfft. Bureaucrats worship me and the Civil Service is a cult in my honour. There is only one predujdice, mine.
Even in OTL, you can go insanely far with your personal prejudices. You just have to ignore them or warp reality to ensure they are true and always officially will be.
Hmmm, if it doesn't fire at all, the Turkish Government may have to find a way to light the fuse and have a Communist Juggernaut do exactly what young Appleby predicts! Alas, no Nobel Prize for anyone and a dank prison cell for the young Humphrey for being right, but on the wrong side of history . Say, around 1943?
Anyway, I've tried not to do anything game-breaking, but who knows?
So...yup. Chamberlain gets a peace prize, Churchill gets an ulcer and Hitler gets to sit on his chair and rant. Stalin gets to sit in his chair and rant in Russia, so at least the communists would lose!
And...well, Germany would starve to death becaus of poor farming, same with Russia. I would assume a regime change before then though.
Pfft. Bureaucrats worship me and the Civil Service is a cult in my honour. There is only one predujdice, mine.
Even in OTL, you can go insanely far with your personal prejudices. You just have to ignore them or warp reality to ensure they are true and always officially will be.
So...yup. Chamberlain gets a peace prize, Churchill gets an ulcer and Hitler gets to sit on his chair and rant. Stalin gets to sit in his chair and rant in Russia, so at least the communists would lose!
And...well, Germany would starve to death becaus of poor farming, same with Russia. I would assume a regime change before then though.
It seems a bit amoral and I'll-principled for real life, but because it's a game and I - and no doubt the readership - want electronic blood to flow, if Turkey has to smoke near the powder keg then so be it!
Otherwise, getting to keep our whole empire, not having to join the Stalinists, enjoying a large slab of the world's oil reserves, the containment of Fascism and achievement of a peaceful New World Order would seem a reasonable outcome for a few relatively mild Turkish wars of expansion!
But given the game objective I've set myself is to be part of a world-dominating strategic octopus and another 10 years of blissful peace and consolidation wouldn't make for a riveting HoI3 AAR read (unlike some other games), then Iron Hearts it is for a new global war. I think though it will still come, in some form, without further Turkish pot-stirring.
Ps: the new Propaganda Chief's name came up on my translation as 'sacrificial' but I profess no knowledge of Turkish grammar to determine what it actually is or whether the expression itself translates, but am not fussed: it's good enough for government work
I have recently made contact with an official in the British civil service to understand the appeasement policy. He explains that the current belief of the Foreign Office is that engaging in a war with Hitler over Eastern Europe would, at best, leave Eastern Europe under a Communist dictatorship instead of a Fascist dictatorship as Stalin will doubtless leap in to steal the spoils. This change of dictator could take years of war and only be obtained at a cost of millions of lives, the ruination of the country and the end of the British Empire.
I am forced to concede he raises an excellent point. With such abilities and insights I believe this Humphrey Appleby fellow might go far in the service.
What we will not tell the British - or indeed the in-game Lord El Pip character (given his mixed loyalties) - is that the eventual dissolution of the British Empire and the imposition of a Turkish-Russian Communist dictatorship in Europe (all of it, not just the east) is exactly what we ultimately desire.
For now, on this particular matter, we simply nod sagely and thank him and young Appleby for their insights. And note how the West's salami is being sliced a bit at a time by Hitler (which sounds both figuratively and literally painful). If they don't wish to confront him until it is too late, then they will have to deal with the consequences. With a large chunk of their salami already missing
It seems a bit amoral and I'll-principled for real life, but because it's a game and I - and no doubt the readership - want electronic blood to flow, if Turkey has to smoke near the powder keg then so be it!
As you all know, I don't really agree with screwing with the electronic people under your command but in this case, leaving Hitler alone would probably lead to a lot of death, as well as a soviet controlled Europe eventually.
Ps: the new Propaganda Chief's name came up on my translation as 'sacrificial' but I profess no knowledge of Turkish grammar to determine what it actually is or whether the expression itself translates, but am not fussed: it's good enough for government work
What we will not tell the British - or indeed the in-game Lord El Pip character (given his mixed loyalties) - is that the eventual dissolution of the British Empire and the imposition of a Turkish-Russian Communist dictatorship in Europe (all of it, not just the east) is exactly what we ultimately desire.
For now, on this particular matter, we simply nod sagely and thank him and young Appleby for their insights. And note how the West's salami is being sliced a bit at a time by Hitler (which sounds both figuratively and literally painful). If they don't wish to confront him until it is too late, then they will have to deal with the consequences. With a large chunk of their salami already missing
I enjoy looking at how Historical records unfold and what happens hinges on one moment/action, (like a road intersection) i.e. For a future "Saxon" England - Tostig seeking revenge & satisfaction on his brother Harold and bringing in Haardrada to invade before Hastings (aka the battle of Battle) Harold nearly beat William the B/C as it was, I "doubt" Harold would have lost if he'd only fought the Normans.
Back to Peace in our time; my dusty American history books always painted Chamberlain m/l as a spineless coward and of course Churchill as the Hero of Heroes. Of course I'm not saying there is not any truth in that but there is much more to that story, as there usually seems to be in our histories. As in Bullfilter's snap of that Polish tank,
The Brit-historian David?, sorry, his name escapes me right about now, really opened my eyes to what Chamberlain was facing in the British public. He said that "fears about bombing" pre WWII were as scary to the British people as Nukes are to us today. And then, I can add to that, because of WW1 bombings, the folks at home knew that things could get much worse. In short, it was not only the "huge lists of dead" in Europe retuning to the British press again, but "new" air-war-technology was rightly feared, probably much like the machine-gun had NOT been understood in the first war.
I doubt Chamberlain could have had a happy-ending to his political-life, even if he had been much more warlike.
And provided the tale is true, I wonder what the people would have thought if "they" saw WC standing on a rooftop watching London burn as if he were a school-kid watching a fireworks display? Of course, their is no answer because that is not what did happen. I just said this because over the years as I have dove into events/players, I've generally been appalled by seeing larger pictures of historical villains & heroes.
Chamberlain had a balls of a time in office. Here was a man who was clever enough to know that he wasn't quite clever enough, not healthy enough, certainly not in a strong enough position to fight with Hitler, a man who had nothing to lose and everything to gain. Chamberlain on the other hand ran the biggest empire in the world and one that was in dire straits, was slowly rearming to the best of Britain's ability and trying to keep the balance of power in Europe (the most powerful place in the world at that time, and surprisingly enough possible he most volatile). The fact that GB actually got away with the disaster that was the early years of the war thanks to the Nazis and especially their leadership being absolute morons (among other things) doesn't mean that Churchill and everyone in here screaming for war is actually right. If anything, it rather proves the point that no one on the allies side was ready for war and they all suffered because of it. No one on the axis were ready either, but they had a different situation to contend with and held the advantage of actually wanting to fight.
I have in the past fought on both sides of this debate. Here...there are no good answers. Nothing to do with WWI or the aftermath of it has much in the way of clear concise answers (there is an argument to be made that could be said about before that war too, but it's certainly true afterwards because historians and everyone else suddenly became a lot more meta and self aware about pretty much everything). Debate this if you wish, especially from turkey's perspective (who knows nothing of the great powers' real struggles aside from maybe France's, because they were becoming very obvious), but remember this disparity.
Chamberlain had a balls of a time in office. Here was a man who was clever enough to know that he wasn't quite clever enough, not healthy enough, certainly not in a strong enough position to fight with Hitler, a man who had nothing to lose and everything to gain. Chamberlain on the other hand ran the biggest empire in the world and one that was in dire straits, was slowly rearming to the best of Britain's ability and trying to keep the balance of power in Europe (the most powerful place in the world at that time, and surprisingly enough possible he most volatile). The fact that GB actually got away with the disaster that was the early years of the war thanks to the Nazis and especially their leadership being absolute morons (among other things) doesn't mean that Churchill and everyone in here screaming for war is actually right. If anything, it rather proves the point that no one on the allies side was ready for war and they all suffered because of it. No one on the axis were ready either, but they had a different situation to contend with and held the advantage of actually wanting to fight.
I have in the past fought on both sides of this debate. Here...there are no good answers. Nothing to do with WWI or the aftermath of it has much in the way of clear concise answers (there is an argument to be made that could be said about before that war too, but it's certainly true afterwards because historians and everyone else suddenly became a lot more meta and self aware about pretty much everything). Debate this if you wish, especially from turkey's perspective (who knows nothing of the great powers' real struggles aside from maybe France's, because they were becoming very obvious), but remember this disparity.
I agree TBC. While it is fun and in-character for the partisan Turkish editors of the Path to Glory chronicle (a state-sponsored piece that is both AAR and biased narrative), I have also through the news reports and commentary attempted to paint both sides and a little of the nuance into the picture as well.
Because of the ease with which hindsight can be applied (we know what happened in OTL and that the game itself is hard-wired to try to follow that route), I have used contemporary sources/speeches from the time to avoid the worst excesses of such retrospective wisdom. Though anyone with a passing knowledge of historiography will know even the selection (and editing) of such examples is not free of inherent intellectual bias either.
And in this case, on the issues as currently faced and known by Chamberlain in this alt-world, maybe he is right. And maybe Germany would have won this war in any case, then taken down Poland (or even brought it into the Axis, sans the Danzig corridor of course). Chamberlain blamed for 'not giving peace a chance!'
No German-Soviet pact, France beaten, The Battle of Britain lost, some more eastern territory for Poland at Soviet expense (maybe a new sea port for Poland at Lithuania's expense), etc. Who benefited more from the extra year of preparation - the UK or Germany (assuming France was toast anyway)? Maybe it meant they had the air defences by then to just hold out and prevent Sealion being launched. All far more difficult to understand at the time than in hindsight.
All that said though, it was a foul and unbecoming result to impose on the Czechs and maybe Hitler might have backed down, ruining his myth of infallibility and giving others a chance to bring sanity back to proceedings. Germany as an eventual proper Western ally supporting Poland against the Soviets would have been a far better prospect than what transpired.
In all, on the evidence, I still come out against Chamberlain on this one but understand what he was trying to balance and the pressures he faced. Again, easier with hindsight, but in a way he himself had contributed to the circumstances he found himself in by (among others to be sure) providing Hitler the encouragement he sought and not being prepared to call his bluff. Surely there was more ground in between full-scale war and abject preemptive surrender and abandonment of a natural ally that could have been found.
He was way too eager to fold, misread Hitler badly and was too quick to confirm views of Allied weakness of will and strength of conviction. The nature of this backdown - not just doing a reasonable deal to avert a cataclysmic second Great War - itself surely led to what eventuates.
A Short Interlude
Before we proceed to the next instalment (out very soon), Humphrey Appleby (that very bright young civil servant Lord El Pip is cultivating as a source in the British government, seen here in later years in another universe - ie. OTL) has some pertinent comments to make about the wishes of Prime Ministers; Neville Chamberlain and peace; and the vagaries of public opinion when being consulted on matters of defence and national security.
I never could anyway but you are doing much better than I did. However, I wonder if once the war is in full swing, if you will be able to join if/after you DOW on the Axis?
