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The U.S. resuming war with Japan, likely unprompted at least on the Japanese end, would present an immediate and very difficult test of the validity of the ostensibly rejuvenated League of Nations. If that falls apart, in turn we would be looking at a Turko-Soviet world order not too long after that, I think.

Therefore, it is in the best interests of the world for the Republicans to win (how times have changed...), but I'm still not sure if which is less likely to lead to war: Dewey's policy of "diplomatic isolation" of Japan and "revisiting" the settlement, or a tragic assassination followed by a Bricker presidency featuring repudiation of the Geneva treaty but also, ostensibly, pulling away from military adventurism in the Pacific.

Either way it seems important not to let @Wraith11B FDR get a fourth term as this time he may outrun his handlers and reach the Big Red Button before anyone can stop him.
 
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Presumably Iceland is to become an allied indepednant European nation, with some US bases.

Rhodes though...forgot the US had that. Probably a US territory for now and air and naval base to pressure the black sea with. Can always be dangled over turkey's head both as a carrot and stick too.
Both seem like pretty logical working assumptions. Though we'll first see what US administration emerges (of course, for the duration of the Geneva Conference and until January, the Roosevelt Administration holds the reins whatever the result.
What happened to Afghanistan???
It got forgotten on that list! Though that graphic just related to the European side of things, so I'll forgive myself ;) There will be one of these for Asia in a little bit.
Interesting table. China may get membership eventually if they do unite and become indepdant...maybe taking japan's seat. Otherwise, I don't see much chanhe happening to that setup. Certainly France is quite diminished from OTL.
There's always the option of adding a power, given this is an ATL and the P5 could become P6 or 7, theoretically. Though re China or some other candidate (France, India etc) I think a majority of the General Assembly plus no veto in the LNSC would be required for such a change ... a pretty razor narrow path to walk, for whoever (it would have to be a current P5 member) might propose it.
FDR is going to struggle to get 4 terms. He was in the middle of a popular war against Japan and winning both against them and the nazis. In peacetime, he's still genuinely popular, esepcially for getting a 'win' with little to no amercian bloodshed at all...but at a price. Amercia is quite isolated from the world still, and it would be easy for the isolationists to press their case and go back to being true neutrals in fortress amercia.
This is a fair assessment. From my light research, 1944 was a bit closer than the electoral college vote indicated and Roosevelt had all the advantages of great war news coming in and a successful leading military involvement to that time. It's a far different picture this time.

I've devised my little electoral model which I'll share in the next update, and it starts of by adjusting the popular vote across the board so its virtually dead even nationally. Which interestingly, with slight rounding, gives the Republicans a very narrow popular vote margin of a couple of thousand out of about 48,000,000 cast. And an Electoral College margin of 320-211! But using that as the new starting point, I'll have a national swing applied uniformly to all states moderated by a separate state swing (which can be a little larger either way) for each one. Percentage dice will be used to apply them and we'll see where things fall. Because its Paradox HOI3 and I only have so much time, I'll not be modelling Congress (House and Senate) outcomes as well.

I will have a secret little formula though to see which strain of foreign policy prevails in both parties post-election (using the college votes each side gets as its pseudo-Congressional balance), which will moderate the preferred policy line of the lead candidate on either side that gets up. ;) Sound like fun?
This would suit the USSR just fine. But FDR sticking around for another year before Truman inheriting the seat would be fine too. Both have a good working relationship with Stalin and such calm would no doubt be helpful in internal comintern negotiations and those coming up with Japan.
The people will decide ... and then the Administration, Congress and lobbyists. :D
The U.S. resuming war with Japan, likely unprompted at least on the Japanese end, would present an immediate and very difficult test of the validity of the ostensibly rejuvenated League of Nations. If that falls apart, in turn we would be looking at a Turko-Soviet world order not too long after that, I think.
It will be complicated, with whichever policy prevails in the corridors of power having to negotiate the 'alt-real' world. And there's a good chance a revanchist anti-Japanese policy (were it to be adopted), may be a longer term thing, involving Cold and proxy wars, economic measures, rival defensive treaty organisations etc. Any large scale hot war could be some way down the 'pike.
Therefore, it is in the best interests of the world for the Republicans to win (how times have changed...), but I'm still not sure if which is less likely to lead to war: Dewey's policy of "diplomatic isolation" of Japan and "revisiting" the settlement, or a tragic assassination followed by a Bricker presidency featuring repudiation of the Geneva treaty but also, ostensibly, pulling away from military adventurism in the Pacific.

Either way it seems important not to let @Wraith11B FDR get a fourth term as this time he may outrun his handlers and reach the Big Red Button before anyone can stop him.
Nice analysis. And of course, so far in this ATL no-one has gone close to developing nukes yet, let alone using them. Another thing for your poor humble author to have to consider in the Brave New World Order ahead! o_O
 
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Chapter 240: US OTL 1944 Election Campaign and ATL Adjusted Electoral System
Chapter 240: US OTL 1944 Election Campaign and ATL Adjusted Electoral System

As promised, here's the background for the US 1944 Presidential Election. First, from Wikipedia, here's the short version of what happened in the OTL campaign and election. I'll then set out the campaign starting point for this ATL election and how the vote will be decided.

---xxx---
OTL 1944 Campaign

The 1944 United States presidential election was the 40th quadrennial presidential election. It was held on Tuesday, November 7, 1944. The election took place during World War II. Incumbent Democratic President Franklin D. Roosevelt defeated Republican Thomas E. Dewey to win an unprecedented fourth term.

Roosevelt had become the first and only president to win a third term with his victory in the 1940 presidential election, with little doubt that he would seek a fourth term. Unlike in 1940, Roosevelt faced little opposition within his own party, and he easily won the presidential nomination of the 1944 Democratic National Convention. Concerned that Roosevelt's ill health would mean the vice president would likely become president, the convention dropped Roosevelt's vice president Henry A. Wallace in favour of Senator Harry S. Truman of Missouri.

Governor Dewey of New York emerged as the front-runner for the Republican nomination after his victory in the Wisconsin primary, and he defeated conservative Governor John W. Bricker at the 1944 Republican National Convention.

As World War II was going well for the United States and its Allies, Roosevelt remained popular despite his long tenure. Dewey campaigned against the New Deal and for a smaller government, but was ultimately unsuccessful in convincing the country to change course. The election was closer than Roosevelt's other presidential campaigns, but Roosevelt still won by a comfortable margin in the popular vote and by a wide margin in the Electoral College.

UWZUWA.jpg

Democrat 1944 election poster.

The Republicans campaigned against the New Deal, seeking a smaller government and less-regulated economy as the end of the war seemed in sight. Nonetheless, Roosevelt's continuing popularity was the main theme of the campaign. To quiet rumours of his poor health, Roosevelt insisted on making a vigorous campaign swing in October and rode in an open car through city streets.

cud92B.jpg

Dewey on the election trail.

A high point of the campaign occurred when Roosevelt, speaking to a meeting of labour union leaders, gave a speech carried on national radio in which he ridiculed Republican claims that his administration was corrupt and wasteful with tax money. In response, Governor Dewey gave a blistering partisan speech in Oklahoma City a few days later on national radio, in which he accused Roosevelt of being "indispensable" to corrupt big-city Democratic organisations and American Communists. However, American battlefield successes in Europe and the Pacific during the campaign, such as the liberation of Paris in August 1944 and the successful Battle of Leyte Gulf in the Philippines in October 1944, made President Roosevelt unbeatable.

---xxx---

OTL Results

Throughout the campaign, Roosevelt led Dewey in all the polls by varying margins. On election day, the Democratic incumbent scored a fairly comfortable victory over his Republican challenger. Roosevelt took 36 states for 432 electoral votes (266 were needed to win), while Dewey won twelve states and 99 electoral votes. In the popular vote, Roosevelt won 25,612,916 (53.4%) votes to Dewey's 22,017,929 (45.9%).

Pk2sW2.jpg

OTL Results 1944.

E0dOua.jpg

OTL Electoral College Map 1944.

The important question had been which leader, Roosevelt or Dewey, should be chosen for the critical days of peacemaking and reconstruction following the war's conclusion. Most American voters concluded that they should retain the governing party, and particularly the president who represented it. They also felt it unsafe to do so in "wartime", in view of ever-increasing domestic disagreements.

Dewey did better against Roosevelt than any of Roosevelt's previous three Republican opponents: Roosevelt's percentage and margin of the total vote were both less than in 1940. Dewey flipped the states of Wyoming, Wisconsin, and Ohio from the previous election, while Roosevelt flipped Michigan.

---xxx---

ATL Voting System – Starting Point

As mentioned in a previous post, the popular votes for each state have been adjusted on a +/- % basis across the board for each state. It so happens that even though the total votes are almost identical, the hypothetical Electoral College vote would be quite decisively in favour of Dewey, given the distribution of the vote. Not an unusual occurrence in US electoral history and the kind of thing that can happen quite regularly in a range of electoral systems that are not strictly proportional.

The table below shows the new ATL campaign starting point for 1944, ranked from the safest Democrat state at the top down to the safest Republican one at the bottom, before any RNG swings are applied (see below). The number of electoral votes for each side if this was the final vote (EV) is listed.

Xkn0OM.jpg

Of interest, in this paradigm and using up to 4% as an indicative ‘swing state’ margin, big states such as New York (2.5%) and Illinois (4%) and medium sized ones such as Massachusetts (1.7%) and Minnesota (2%) are in the ‘at risk’ Republican column. For the Democrats, it is only the medium sized EVs of Kentucky (1.8%) and Oklahoma (3.9%) in this range.

In this 1944 College, there are 531 EVs, so the target is 266 for a win. To do that from his starting position here, Roosevelt needs to flip a net increase of 55 EVs. So, say New York and one or two other states would be all he’d need to turn around his currently losing position.

---xxx---

RNG Swing Model

So, to the above table two factors will be applied. As mentioned, the first will be a national uniform swing, representing how the respective candidates fare overall during the campaign. The maximum possible at the extreme for either side is 4% national swing (coincidentally, the rough position in the OTL 1944 outcome, with a full margin of about 7.5% in the end).

Then there will be a separate swing generated for each state (up to a maximum of 6%), reflecting local variations. The two will be combined and applied to the adjusted popular vote for each state and we will see how it goes! The table below shows the swing ranges and their chance of occurring by RNG.

A77AMg.jpg

I have my trusty old D&D % dice at the ready!

zJIhcL.jpg

As it stands, due to the electoral geography and the different circumstances of this ATL, the two candidates are neck-and-neck in the popular vote, but Dewey has the edge in the projected Electoral College.

In the next update, we’ll find out how the ATL Campaign goes (national swing) and then get state-by-state results, working from the most decisive to the most marginal as each side tries to build its ‘road to 266’.

AuthAAR’s Note: So, a little bit like (but not nearly as accomplished as) @DensleyBlair's incomparable Echoes of A New Tomorrow: Life after Revolution in the Commonwealth of Britain, it may be this AAR has a bit more left in it yet as a purely narrative commentary extending into the post-war period. I'll tend to do smaller, sharper little update chapters as the fancy takes me, covering major events and trends, until the well is finally dry. This little sub-series on the 1944 US Election is an example.
 
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I was going to wait a day to see if anyone noticed. I admit I was worried that you would have let India go with no veto and taken the extra vote, which would have sunk Germany. But fortunately, you reckoned rightly that Churchill would have made a fight over it, and burnt the +1 you got from me.

A gamble. Probably the largest one of the entire post war game.

I could be sure someone was keeping count, even I'd missed it (which I think I did at first glance). You were probably better placed to calculate whether that one vote was going to matter, and I'm not sure what would have happened in the event of a tie. At least the Sec. Gen. was spared that headache!

Like most participants, I was more interested in playing the back-story than the points, so Churchill wasn't going to let me compromise.

But the UK is as close to the Comintern have to an enemy now. Did nothing during the war. Opposed us a ton during negotiations. Did not withdraw gracefully from India.

The UK itself will be alright but the wider empire is going to be torn away at the first opportunity (probably otl suez crises but much sooner).

Here, I'm pinning my hopes on a change of government in the UK changing the mood and plotting a more pragmatic course.
 
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This would include the fate of Iceland and Rhodes (both of which fell under US control during GW2 and remain there for now).

I can see the UK quietly encouraging the US to hang on to these strategic North Atlantic and Mediterranean bases.

Germany had of course been the prime instigator of the war and was now a Soviet puppet, so there was no question of them being given P5 membership.

That is no doubt how the history books will tell it in this ATL! :D

The table below shows the new ATL campaign starting point for 1944, ranked from the safest Democrat state at the top down to the safest Republican one at the bottom, before any RNG swings are applied (see below). The number of electoral votes for each side if this was the final vote (EV) is listed.

I maybe in a minority, but I do find electoral statistics endlessly fascinating. :)

I have my trusty old D&D % dice at the ready!

Clearly you found better quality dice than I did - some of mine are so chipped and worn, they're almost round!
 
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Here, I'm pinning my hopes on a change of government in the UK changing the mood and plotting a more pragmatic course

That would change all the calculations. New Labour government with a welfare state, NHS, huge housing boom and benefits, and the implicit but quiet ties to the communist party (which genuinely was close with Moscow) no doubt would soften attitudes in Europe and the comintern quite a bit. After all, marx said socialism was most viable in developed economies and slow evolution was possible. Making democratic socialism mainstream in the west would be a huge boon for the comintern and for all Labour parties. There'd still be the old imperial guard and empire to sort out, but once that was gone (and it will be gone, within the next 15 to 20 years), there is much that could be done.
 
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Making democratic socialism mainstream in the west would be a huge boon for the comintern and for all Labour parties. There'd still be the old imperial guard and empire to sort out, but once that was gone (and it will be gone, within the next 15 to 20 years), there is much that could be done.
Then TT really does become the Echoes prequel!
 
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Then TT really does become the Echoes prequel!

Possibly, but provided the comintern actually converts to a bit more international communism, might be a better world than Echoes. At very least for Europe. Balkans and North Africa might have a sucky few decades though.
 
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<political intrigues>
Sweet! Looking forward to this, seems like a reasonable mix of OTL and RNG dynamics to produce an exciting outcome!

a better world
That's a bold choice of words to describe a world order dominated by Uncle Joe and the Soviet Union. Certainly I think the Poles would like to contest this word choice if nobody else will.
 
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Sweet! Looking forward to this, seems like a reasonable mix of OTL and RNG dynamics to produce an exciting outcome!


That's a bold choice of words to describe a world order dominated by Uncle Joe and the Soviet Union. Certainly I think the Poles would like to contest this word choice if nobody else will.

Of course it's a better world. I'm running it.
 
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I have my trusty old D&D % dice at the ready!
It seems this AAR will continue to be great even after the game has ended!

For UGNR, the best outcomes would be whichever Allies are weaker. So the centrist faction of the dems should be out of power no matter what. Both FDR's way of staying inside Comintern and possibly siding with Turkey as a balancing weight and Dewey's 3rd way thinking that includes us but not the Allies are good for us. Bricker going isolationist isn't very good but at least not actively helping the Allies.

Hoping for a very in-sync UGNR-USA relations in our ATL!
 
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It seems this AAR will continue to be great even after the game has ended!

For UGNR, the best outcomes would be whichever Allies are weaker. So the centrist faction of the dems should be out of power no matter what. Both FDR's way of staying inside Comintern and possibly siding with Turkey as a balancing weight and Dewey's 3rd way thinking that includes us but not the Allies are good for us. Bricker going isolationist isn't very good but at least not actively helping the Allies.

Hoping for a very in-sync UGNR-USA relations in our ATL!

Remember the whole comintern and esepcially turkey and Russia have some more conferences to go to and negotiate over the next year. What rhe comintern is going to be, role of Russia and Turkey in it etc. Then a further one with Japan because we need to decide the fate of manchuria, China (including red China), India etc.

Turkey might not have much interest aside from the last point, because they're a big middle Eastern player now and are going to have to balance persia, North Africa, and the indepednant but no doubt extremely worried Arabia and Afghanistan, whilst also the british rule collapses in Iran, Palestine, Egypt etc.

Actually that brings up a further point. Turkey is now or soon will be a big oil producer (got all the oil fields in the balkans, North Africa and persia). Therefore no doubt going to be a founding member of whatever oil nations group gets going TTL, alongside Russia and, possibly depending on who's president, the US.
 
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Great to see you back at it, and with the updated map of Europe.

I'm loving the use of the D&D dice to determine the outcome of the US elections... More fun, and less contentious than to speculate and make judgement calls on the impact of the differences between ATL and OTL on the election. Will you also simulate a British 1945 election and a French election in 1945 & 1946 with selection of the president through the congress of French parliament?

Even without dice-rolling all of the world's major elections of the post-war years, I'm sure a narrative continuation of this epic work would be a fun read. We also have yet to find out what all of those characters end up becoming post-war... Those who aren't dead that is.
 
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Great to see you back at it, and with the updated map of Europe.

I'm loving the use of the D&D dice to determine the outcome of the US elections... More fun, and less contentious than to speculate and make judgement calls on the impact of the differences between ATL and OTL on the election. Will you also simulate a British 1945 election and a French election in 1945 & 1946 with selection of the president through the congress of French parliament?

Even without dice-rolling all of the world's major elections of the post-war years, I'm sure a narrative continuation of this epic work would be a fun read. We also have yet to find out what all of those characters end up becoming post-war... Those who aren't dead that is.

I can only begin to imagine how many French people are dead in this timeline. France didn't surrender but went down fighting...hard. We're talking hundreds of thousands more at least, plus the Eastern half of France razed to the ground including Paris.

De Gaulle is almost certainly dead, or was captured and killed in prison by the nazis. That's probably the largest single person modifier. But the fallout of this war will be immense for France. Even moreso than ww1.

Britain meanwhile...compared to OTL, had a pretty...Good war? No blitz. No bombings. Not a lot of fighting at all except on the seas, which was so once sided they didn't lose many ships. Sure their prestige and honour is in the toilet so the tories are still probably going down, but the country hasn't been blown apart and thus can't be built from the ground up like OTL. Probably on the whole better situation than in OTL, but the empire is a lot weaker and less attached to the UK, and its going to take some time and some doing for the international community to forgive the british for their cowardice.
 
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De Gaulle is almost certainly dead, or was captured and killed in prison by the nazis. That's probably the largest single person modifier.

If I'm remembering the right timeline here, de Gaulle was sidelined in Africa and it's not clear what influence he might now have, if any at all.
 
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If I'm remembering the right timeline here, de Gaulle was sidelined in Africa and it's not clear what influence he might now have, if any at all.

If that's true, he's still out of the game by being a nonentity instead.

Bascially, France is going into the post war world surrounded by communists and having few politicians and thinkers left alive and relevant who are not themsevles at the very least socialists.

This could have some profound implications, esepcially with socialist Spain and almost certainly a socialist North Italy on their border. We could see multiple blocs forming in the Comintern, and socialism generally seen as less an extremist ideology and more a varied and complex one along the lines liberalism is.

Though I'm still hoping and holding out for my team of competent people taking over the Soviet Union after stalin and actually building the international up properly now they actually have one.
 
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Thanks for all the great comments! Some I will tend to leave as they are, in part because I may have other ideas, or the RNG Gods may have something different in store. Basically, I'll be riffing off the kind of things that happened in OTL, but adjusted and twisted around to suit how things have gone down in this gamiverse. And there will be a few major events that have to be created from whole new cloth.
Here, I'm pinning my hopes on a change of government in the UK changing the mood and plotting a more pragmatic course.
The next British election will get a similar treatment to the US one, as it comes up quite soon and will be crucial to the immediate post-war phase of world history, even more so as the UK currently stands as the head of the Western Democratic powers.
I can see the UK quietly encouraging the US to hang on to these strategic North Atlantic and Mediterranean bases.



That is no doubt how the history books will tell it in this ATL! :D



I maybe in a minority, but I do find electoral statistics endlessly fascinating. :)



Clearly you found better quality dice than I did - some of mine are so chipped and worn, they're almost round!
Those US bases will be interesting, with Rhodes being quite a different case to Iceland, I think.

Germany's standing under Soviet control will have similarities to OTL, but also some differences given the different dynamics.

On election stats: I think you are far from alone on that! :D I for one am a dedicated nut. If it's a minority, it's likely to be quite a large one on this forum and this thread especially, is my guess.
That would change all the calculations. New Labour government with a welfare state, NHS, huge housing boom and benefits, and the implicit but quiet ties to the communist party (which genuinely was close with Moscow) no doubt would soften attitudes in Europe and the comintern quite a bit. After all, marx said socialism was most viable in developed economies and slow evolution was possible. Making democratic socialism mainstream in the west would be a huge boon for the comintern and for all Labour parties. There'd still be the old imperial guard and empire to sort out, but once that was gone (and it will be gone, within the next 15 to 20 years), there is much that could be done.
In part, yes, but it will be interesting to see how that plays out (were Labour to get in) in this differently structured post-war world. What seemed like the 'right thing to do' (domestically and overseas) from a secondary power of the winning side may be viewed through a somewhat different lens in this world. And Labour may not get in ... even I don't know yet! ;)

Sweet! Looking forward to this, seems like a reasonable mix of OTL and RNG dynamics to produce an exciting outcome!
I'll try to make it that, though still want to wind this up in a reasonable time.
Then TT really does become the Echoes prequel!
Perhaps a bit, though it could never equal it in that regard. <doffs cap with genuine humility>
Possibly, but provided the comintern actually converts to a bit more international communism, might be a better world than Echoes. At very least for Europe. Balkans and North Africa might have a sucky few decades though.
That's a bold choice of words to describe a world order dominated by Uncle Joe and the Soviet Union. Certainly I think the Poles would like to contest this word choice if nobody else will.
Of course it's a better world. I'm running it.
It is to laff! :D Neither Kelebek nor Uncle Joe will be running it entirely, or forever. Even alt worlds have a way of confounding those who think they have 'won' and are pulling all the strings. Those strings are always attached to something and one may tug and rediscover the old 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction' lesson. ;)
It seems this AAR will continue to be great even after the game has ended!
Thank you, my friend.
For UGNR, the best outcomes would be whichever Allies are weaker. So the centrist faction of the dems should be out of power no matter what. Both FDR's way of staying inside Comintern and possibly siding with Turkey as a balancing weight and Dewey's 3rd way thinking that includes us but not the Allies are good for us. Bricker going isolationist isn't very good but at least not actively helping the Allies.
You will soon see how the US election (Presidential but also Congressional) turns out and its possible implications for future US strategy and foreign policy. Or at least the melting pot that will be used to form them.
Hoping for a very in-sync UGNR-USA relations in our ATL!
It will remain to be seen, of course, as other powers will also figure prominently (the USSR and UK as prime influencers, Japan as the wild card, some others in a more minor way). And there are events and major trends that will emerge. o_O
Remember the whole comintern and esepcially turkey and Russia have some more conferences to go to and negotiate over the next year. What rhe comintern is going to be, role of Russia and Turkey in it etc. Then a further one with Japan because we need to decide the fate of manchuria, China (including red China), India etc.
True. And there are some big international friction points in there, too.
Turkey might not have much interest aside from the last point, because they're a big middle Eastern player now and are going to have to balance persia, North Africa, and the indepednant but no doubt extremely worried Arabia and Afghanistan, whilst also the british rule collapses in Iran, Palestine, Egypt etc.
They will have an increasingly complicated domestic security and international environment to cope with. Will they be up to it?
Actually that brings up a further point. Turkey is now or soon will be a big oil producer (got all the oil fields in the balkans, North Africa and persia). Therefore no doubt going to be a founding member of whatever oil nations group gets going TTL, alongside Russia and, possibly depending on who's president, the US.
Oh, fear not, this has been a prominent consideration for some time now and will become more so in the the post-war world. I won't over-cook it not get too theoretical nor complicated, but it will be big for them - and others too, not least Japan, as well as the West.
Great to see you back at it, and with the updated map of Europe.
Thank you.
I'm loving the use of the D&D dice to determine the outcome of the US elections... More fun, and less contentious than to speculate and make judgement calls on the impact of the differences between ATL and OTL on the election. Will you also simulate a British 1945 election and a French election in 1945 & 1946 with selection of the president through the congress of French parliament?
Yes, something similar will be done for those two, at least. And versions of post-war power structures and events fro the USSR and Turkey - though without those pesky real elections.
Even without dice-rolling all of the world's major elections of the post-war years, I'm sure a narrative continuation of this epic work would be a fun read. We also have yet to find out what all of those characters end up becoming post-war... Those who aren't dead that is.
I hope so. I'm having a bit of fun with it so far. I'll see if some of them make the odd cameo if appropriate - the thought had crossed my mind.
I can only begin to imagine how many French people are dead in this timeline. France didn't surrender but went down fighting...hard. We're talking hundreds of thousands more at least, plus the Eastern half of France razed to the ground including Paris.

De Gaulle is almost certainly dead, or was captured and killed in prison by the nazis. That's probably the largest single person modifier. But the fallout of this war will be immense for France. Even moreso than ww1.
If I'm remembering the right timeline here, de Gaulle was sidelined in Africa and it's not clear what influence he might now have, if any at all.
If that's true, he's still out of the game by being a nonentity instead.

Bascially, France is going into the post war world surrounded by communists and having few politicians and thinkers left alive and relevant who are not themsevles at the very least socialists.

This could have some profound implications, esepcially with socialist Spain and almost certainly a socialist North Italy on their border. We could see multiple blocs forming in the Comintern, and socialism generally seen as less an extremist ideology and more a varied and complex one along the lines liberalism is.

Though I'm still hoping and holding out for my team of competent people taking over the Soviet Union after stalin and actually building the international up properly now they actually have one.
Yes, they fought hard and didn't collapse as quickly as in OTL. And have ended up a Paternal Autocrat based government. The same as Turkey, who declared war on Germany to try to save them in 1940, which won't be forgotten either, one would think. And then ensured they got back the south of France - after a brief occupation by Turkey and Germany - who by then also had a temporary PA provisional government. And the north was liberated by the UK, making up a little for their lacklustre support in 1940.

I don't see the post-war dominance of socialist-communist elements in France as a given at all. Though we'll see which way they go afterwards. Their only direct borders with Communist countries for now are Germany (under Soviet domination and hardly role models for France) and Spain, who have emerged as independent Communist and will no doubt be internally focused for a long time. Rather as an analog to Franco in OTL.

And Italy is under Turkish control, so not Communist/Socialist at all (at the overlord level, anyway). More Kemalist-Inonuist paternal autocracy. With Mafia characteristics.

Otherwise, France is still firmly embedded in the West, and have a more immediate potentially threatening border to worry about - Communist and German. That may well focus their attention in ways that vary from OTL. Then again, maybe they will have a swing to the left ... the electors will have to decide.

And yes, de Gaulle ended up in Africa, so is still kicking around. He certainly won't have the same prominence as in OTL, but who knows what he may try to get up to later. ;)

Team of competent people running the USSR!? :D Stalin playing nice and smart - for however many years he has left? :eek: These are very big 'what ifs' and we don't have Odin's Secret Committee in this ATL. :p We shall see what transpires, but a golden age of Soviet brilliance, sophistication and enduring dominance may not necessarily be a given, despite their undoubted successes at the Peace Conference. The centre has a way of not holding as long as you think it will. ;)

To All: the next chapter on the US election should be up in the next day or so, with any luck.
 
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Those US bases will be interesting, with Rhodes being quite a different case to Iceland, I think.
An independent Rhodes would be interesting, they might decide to unite with the eventually independent Rhodesia :D

And Italy is under Turkish control, so not Communist/Socialist at all (at the overlord level, anyway). More Kemalist-Inonuist paternal autocracy. With Mafia characteristics.
Kemalism or Inonuism has a big dose of Social Democracy, albeit not as much to be counted socialism. I wouldn't have put either of their ideologies in the paternal autocrat bin.
 
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Kemalism or Inonuism has a big dose of Social Democracy, albeit not as much to be counted socialism. I wouldn't have put either of their ideologies in the paternal autocrat bin.

They sort of are in the balkans, Africa, persia, Italy etc though. Which is no doubt going to impact Turkey proper. And don't forget how vast and far reaching SITH is. For all the jokes about it, it's a supremely powerful and dictatorial intelligence agency with wide ranging powers across the entire UGNR.
 
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An independent Rhodes would be interesting, they might decide to unite with the eventually independent Rhodesia :D


Kemalism or Inonuism has a big dose of Social Democracy, albeit not as much to be counted socialism. I wouldn't have put either of their ideologies in the paternal autocrat bin.
I doubt Rhodes will be getting its independence any time soon! :D More likely a hardened US military base. Question will be whether it’s something Turkey will welcome, or come to resent.

An interesting choice then by the Paradox researchers. I’ll bear it in mind as we break out of their restrictions in the A-AAR. ;)
 
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