• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Wait a second...I've just been going over a couple of the Wiki pages and a few entries from the World of Ice and Fire, and I'm actually thinking it's the right choice to keep a land route connecting the Torrentine with Oldtown.

Firstly, in the map for the Reach ( http://store44.com/wp-content/uploads/michael-gellatly-world-of-ice-and-fire-reach.jpg ) if you look closely, you'll see that a road is marked connecting Sunhouse to Starfall along the coast, and a road also connects Oldtown to Starfall and High Hermitage via Uplands, suggesting that there is in fact a route between the two - which would also make sense given that the Torrentine begins in the Reach, as is also visible in the map. It's also worth noting that in the old Game of Thrones RPG game, Starfall was said to guard the "western arm of Dorne", suggesting that there's a pass here of some sort...although admittedly this could just refer to them guarding the Torrentine itself.

Secondly, it's noted in the World of Ice and Fire book that the Prince's Pass and the Stone Way aren't the only passes through the Red Mountains into Dorne, just the two "principal" passes...so there are others, but they're not as widely used (and it should be considered that the route along the coast isn't going through the Red Mountains, but around it). Admittedly, for gameplay purposes, it could be a good idea to add a few impassable walls between provinces to force the AI to take certain routes, or to perhaps edit the adjacencies file or something to make the route through the mountains faster.

Thirdly, it's mentioned in the same book that the Lords of the Torrentine have fought battles with the inhabitants of the Reach; House Blackmont; the northernmost settlement on the river, is mentioned as one of the Houses who were usually involved in fighting along the Dornish Marches, along with Houses Manwoody and Fowler of the Prince's Pass, and Houses Wyl and Yronwood of the Stone Way, suggesting that they have some way of getting to the Reach without going down the Torrentine past Starfall. Later on, it's noted that House Starfall besieged Oldtown during Aegon's Conquest...if impassable mountains did surround all Dorne, that'd mean they'd have either needed to go past Highgarden and Horn Hill (two of the most powerful castles in the Reach, who would have almost certainly taken up arms against them) or take ships down the Redwyne Straits, and ships aren't mentioned as a part of the assault; the narrative implies the attacks were purely on land.

On that note, the section for the Reach mentions that two separate Kings from the Red Mountains attacked and besieged Oldtown and Highgarden...which suggests to me that the two Kings took completely different routes to get to their two destinations, as surely a King going past Highgarden to get to Oldtown would have attacked it as well? It's also worth remembering that the Western Marches region of the Reach actually doesn't include the castle of Uplands; they're sworn to Oldtown, which was an independent state for some time...perhaps Oldtown and Starfall had a much more cordial relationship with one another than the Reach/Western Marches and the houses in the two main passes?

Food for thought, in any case...plus, consider that the Stormlands controls Nightsong, which, in the old map, is in the way of the only real route for the Reach to get to Dorne. Considering how many battles were fought, and how the peace between the Reach and the Stormlands wasn't constant, there'd need to be another route for the Reachmen to use to get into Dorne...
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Hmm, and after looking at the map of Westeros in the Lands of Ice and Fire book, I think I can see why the Prince's Pass and the Stone Way are the two main routes...all the other routes require you to go through mountains and valleys and across rivers, while the other two cut directly through the mountains. So it's not that the other routes are impassable, it's just that those two are quicker and easier to traverse!
WhereIsDorne-624x395.png
 
Last edited:
  • 2
Reactions:
Its not that the mountains are impassable, its that its really hard for a non dornish person to get an army down anything that isnt the princes pass or the boneway. Aegon failed in his conquest of Dorne because his army was ambushed to oblivion in the passes and drawn into the desserts. The Dornish, especially those living in the Red Mountains would know all the little goat trails and side passages and can use that extremely well to defend Dorne. This Dorne should have impasssable mountans, as for the coast road between Starfall and the Reach. Your call.
 
Hmm, I don't think adding impassable mountains is the right solution, though, as then it means that the Dornish lose the advantage they're meant to have! Perhaps that penalty that Christian states get when trying to attack pagan states in the base game could be somehow applied to Dorne; that'd even the fields a bit...although we would get a stupid AI making mistakes. Perhaps a bit of both is needed...a few more impassable ranges, but not ones that completely block off access.

Hmm...also, looking at that map again, if I was to add an impassable mountain range near the Torrentine, I actually think I'd put it on the east side, rather than the west...the picture makes those mountains look like the taller ones (and as noted, the fact that Horn Hill and parts of the Reach extend into the upper parts of the Torrentine show they have access to this area), and if you think about it, it'd be easy to go through river valleys like the ones near the Torrentine, but it'd be suicide to cross a difficult mountain range that leads straight into a desert...the Prince's Pass and Stone Way at least have rivers at each end, ensuring that the land's a bit fertile, but the Torrentine parts of the Red Mountains just go straight to the desert...
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
A mixture of impassible terrain and large speed penalties from west Dorne into the Reach may achieve a very good compromize. If one could compromize by having some impassible mountains along the edges, perhaps entirely blocking High Hermitage from the Reach, yet make one or two entrances into Blackmont - presumably where the rivers cross into the Reach - and one from Sunhouse to Starfall? A speed penalty (also, perhaps migitable by the mountain terrain expert trait?) large enough to dissuade the AI from using those routes frequently would make a Reach attack on Dorne (or vice versa) very interesting, with houses like Dayne and Hightower clashing around the southern mountains while most other levies move to utilize Prince's Pass.
 
  • 4
Reactions:
Sounds good to me! I'm having a look at the map again now, and it looks like I'll need to revamp Dorne and the Reach a bit to accommodate this...at the moment, there province setup doesn't allow for impassable mountains to be added anywhere without them blocking off a real route that we can see on the map. I've also noticed that a few provinces are in the wrong place; Kingsgrave should be in the Prince's Pass (for some reason it's by Yronwood?) and Uplands needs to be closer to the Reach itself.

It does occur to me by looking at the current map in this minimod, though, that even with the Torrentine accessible from the Reach, the Prince's Pass is still the fastest way into Dorne from the Reach...there's fewer provinces in the way!
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Hey man, these borders are awesome and really should be included in the mod itself, if not, become a submod on its own. I have however noticed many new provinces don't get affected by the Kings Road system even though they are along its path. Example: The county across the bay from King's Landing doesn't get the Kings road bonus from the road between King's Landing and Storm's End. The same for many counties along the Rose Road between King's Landing and Highgarden, as well as Highgarden to Oldtown road, and the Ocean Road.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
Hey man, these borders are awesome and really should be included in the mod itself, if not, become a submod on its own. I have however noticed many new provinces don't get affected by the Kings Road system even though they are along its path. Example: The county across the bay from King's Landing doesn't get the Kings road bonus from the road between King's Landing and Storm's End. The same for many counties along the Rose Road between King's Landing and Highgarden, as well as Highgarden to Oldtown road, and the Ocean Road.

They don't? I spent forever editing the provinces file to update this...is there another file that gives out the bonus?
 
You can maybe try the iron_throne events file and add your new provinces to the lists where the road bonuses are given. I don't know anything about Crusader Kings 2 modding , so I'm not a very good help with this. I have't finished the entire road network yet, but if you want, I can give you a list of what provinces are missing the bonus of the road links I have completed.
 
Last edited:
Okay, so for the sake of helping you complete this project, I consoled away and completed the entire road network. I'm putting these in sections based on the road/path of the default map view.

King's Landing to Storm's End (King's Road):
Chyttering Brook
Felwood
Bywater
Haystack Hall

King's Landing to Highgarden (Rose Road):
Chyttering Brook
Felwood
Galemont Fort
Grassy Vale
Smithyton
Bardshome
Dustonbury
Dalston Keep does have the Rose Road bonus, but it is not located along the Rose Road

King's Landing to Casterly Rock (Gold Road):
Farring Cross
Dalston Keep
Hammerhal
Mistlewood
Leygood Keep

King's Landing to Riverrun via Harrenhal (King's Road):
Hayford
Lychester
Stone Hedge
Riverrun

Highgarden to Casterly Rock (Ocean Road): (Road from Highgarden to Oldtown is complete)
Dunnsbridge
Smallwood
Greenmont

Casterly Rock to Riverrun (River Road):
Kanet
Turnbridge

Harrenhal to The Eyrie (High Road)
Harrenhal
Ninestars
Greenfork (Has no High Road bonus, but does have a King's Road bonus)

Riverrun to Harrenhal (River Road):
Harrenhal

Harrenhal to The Neck (King's Road):
Goodbrook
The Twins
Crow's Barrens
Silvereed

The Neck to Winterfel (King's Road):
Silvereed
Moat Cailin

EDIT: I took a look around the provinces neighbouring the road systems and found some counties who should not have the road bonus building in the current map.

Longtable - Rose Road
Chiltern - High Road
Branstone - River Road
Drox Castle - Gold Road
Freylands - King's Road
Castle Cerwyn - King's Road
 
Last edited:
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:
Hmm, there must be another place in the code where the bonuses are applied from, because I've just checked the province folders, and they're showing the right roads (Dalston Keep, for instance, is listed as being on the Gold Road, not the Rose Road)...wait, there must be an event for this; it's probably in there!

EDIT: Found it! "iron_throne_events.txt" has an event to build the Kingsroad and all the other routes, and I didn't think to update this. Okay, updating this SHOULD fix the problem...might take a while to do, though.
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions: