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Just wanted to check, before using this, is this compatible with Westeros Only 1.0?
Just wanted to bump this up because I think it's an excellent and interesting piece of work (as well as to inquire as to the future of it being updated).
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Sorry for double posting, but I do really think this submod deserves a good deal of attention, but also because I wanted to raise a couple of issues I've discovered.
For whatever reason, all three counties in d_felwood start with all of their holdings without any upgrades. If build upgrades and wait for their castellan to succeed, it seems they always fail. I haven't experimented with giving them other kinds of buildings, but... now that I think about it, I'm wondering if it's a conflict with Flamequeen's building submod, but that wouldn't make much sense since it's only those three counties (c_felwood, c_amberly, c_galemont) Edit: The same issue is occurring in Heart's Home. Normal building do build, just not the keep expansions.
Regarding House Hardyng, shouldn't they be moved further south, as they are sworn to House Waynewood? It's not clear whether they are closer to The Eyrie or the Sea (Ironoaks being the midway point), but they definitely shouldn't be up in The Bite.
Do you think House Caswell and c_bitterbridge should be moved out of d_blueburn and into d_roseroad? I've always gotten the impression that House Caswell is more important than the game gives them credit for; they're titled Defenders of the Fords, which would seem to imply that they would be sworn directly to High Garden rather than to House Meadows. I may be wrong.
Also, do you think c_inchfield should be moved closer to c_longtable, as both were held by House Merryweather for centuries? I would consider swapping it with c_smithyton, perhaps.
There also seems to be a bit of an imbalance with House Florent; the only other county in d_brightwater starts sworn to d_west_marches in every bookmark, and they are massively under powered compared to all of their neighbors.
Even though House Staunton now starts with d_rooksrest, every county in the duchy starts out independent in every bookmark except the conquest (that I've seen).
I would consider making the culture of the provinces in d_rosby, d_blackwater_rush, and d_kingsroad crownlander culture, and adjust the character history for that. I've adjusted the cultures myself, but not the character files yet. There are weird things currently like the Chytterings being riverlander even though they're surrounded by stormlander and crownlander cultures. Similar to House Mosborough.
c_mosborough is not sworn to the Rosbys in any bookmark even though they are now part of the duchy.
I would consider making Moat Cailin de jure part of Winterfell again as it seems the Starks love to hand the county over to Reeds currently. Not a huge deal.
Apologies for the long list of 'problems'...
I really do love this submod! I hope you continue the great work!
For whatever reason, all three counties in d_felwood start with all of their holdings without any upgrades. If build upgrades and wait for their castellan to succeed, it seems they always fail. I haven't experimented with giving them other kinds of buildings, but... now that I think about it, I'm wondering if it's a conflict with Flamequeen's building submod, but that wouldn't make much sense since it's only those three counties (c_felwood, c_amberly, c_galemont) Edit: The same issue is occurring in Heart's Home. Normal building do build, just not the keep expansions.
Regarding House Hardyng, shouldn't they be moved further south, as they are sworn to House Waynewood? It's not clear whether they are closer to The Eyrie or the Sea (Ironoaks being the midway point), but they definitely shouldn't be up in The Bite.
Do you think House Caswell and c_bitterbridge should be moved out of d_blueburn and into d_roseroad? I've always gotten the impression that House Caswell is more important than the game gives them credit for; they're titled Defenders of the Fords, which would seem to imply that they would be sworn directly to High Garden rather than to House Meadows. I may be wrong.
Also, do you think c_inchfield should be moved closer to c_longtable, as both were held by House Merryweather for centuries? I would consider swapping it with c_smithyton, perhaps.
There also seems to be a bit of an imbalance with House Florent; the only other county in d_brightwater starts sworn to d_west_marches in every bookmark, and they are massively under powered compared to all of their neighbors.
Even though House Staunton now starts with d_rooksrest, every county in the duchy starts out independent in every bookmark except the conquest (that I've seen).
I would consider making the culture of the provinces in d_rosby, d_blackwater_rush, and d_kingsroad crownlander culture, and adjust the character history for that. I've adjusted the cultures myself, but not the character files yet. There are weird things currently like the Chytterings being riverlander even though they're surrounded by stormlander and crownlander cultures. Similar to House Mosborough.
c_mosborough is not sworn to the Rosbys in any bookmark even though they are now part of the duchy.
I would consider making Moat Cailin de jure part of Winterfell again as it seems the Starks love to hand the county over to Reeds currently. Not a huge deal.
Apologies for the long list of 'problems'...
I really do love this submod! I hope you continue the great work!
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I don't know if this issue was also fixed, but d_knigsroad and d_antlers are de jure Westeros, even if there is no Kingdom of Westeros. They should be moved to de jure Riverlands pre-Aegon's Landing start. Also, playing a bookmark post when the kingdroad was already built, the counties I said before don't automatically get the bonus.
Sorry for double posting, but I do really think this submod deserves a good deal of attention, but also because I wanted to raise a couple of issues I've discovered.
For whatever reason, all three counties in d_felwood start with all of their holdings without any upgrades. If build upgrades and wait for their castellan to succeed, it seems they always fail. I haven't experimented with giving them other kinds of buildings, but... now that I think about it, I'm wondering if it's a conflict with Flamequeen's building submod, but that wouldn't make much sense since it's only those three counties (c_felwood, c_amberly, c_galemont) Edit: The same issue is occurring in Heart's Home. Normal building do build, just not the keep expansions.
Regarding House Hardyng, shouldn't they be moved further south, as they are sworn to House Waynewood? It's not clear whether they are closer to The Eyrie or the Sea (Ironoaks being the midway point), but they definitely shouldn't be up in The Bite.
Do you think House Caswell and c_bitterbridge should be moved out of d_blueburn and into d_roseroad? I've always gotten the impression that House Caswell is more important than the game gives them credit for; they're titled Defenders of the Fords, which would seem to imply that they would be sworn directly to High Garden rather than to House Meadows. I may be wrong.
Also, do you think c_inchfield should be moved closer to c_longtable, as both were held by House Merryweather for centuries? I would consider swapping it with c_smithyton, perhaps.
There also seems to be a bit of an imbalance with House Florent; the only other county in d_brightwater starts sworn to d_west_marches in every bookmark, and they are massively under powered compared to all of their neighbors.
Even though House Staunton now starts with d_rooksrest, every county in the duchy starts out independent in every bookmark except the conquest (that I've seen).
I would consider making the culture of the provinces in d_rosby, d_blackwater_rush, and d_kingsroad crownlander culture, and adjust the character history for that. I've adjusted the cultures myself, but not the character files yet. There are weird things currently like the Chytterings being riverlander even though they're surrounded by stormlander and crownlander cultures. Similar to House Mosborough.
c_mosborough is not sworn to the Rosbys in any bookmark even though they are now part of the duchy.
I would consider making Moat Cailin de jure part of Winterfell again as it seems the Starks love to hand the county over to Reeds currently. Not a huge deal.
Apologies for the long list of 'problems'...
Heh, I really must get back to editing this at some point...
Hmm, I'm not sure what would be causing the building errors; I don't think I really touched anything in those files aside from the event that makes the Kingsroad and all the other roads form. It's possibly a submod conflict...since I moved a lot of provinces around, it's possibly confused the building submod you have. As for the county liege changes, I would like to expand on that; originally, I left most of them as they were because I wasn't too sure why the game designers had set things up that way...but I do think some areas are a bit too weak given how the books describe them as being more powerful than that (I think that's why d_rooks_rest is an OPM; I read that there was a title held by House Staunton, but wasn't sure if they should have the surrounding counties or not). And there are a few odd borders...when I go back to editing this, I'll take a lot of this into account!
I actually did want to make them Crownlanders from the start date, to be honest, but I figured I'd leave that for a later update...basically, I think that the Crownlanders should be called something like Blackwatermen, or Eastermen, and given a de jure Kingdom of the Blackwater to form, which can then both change to Crownlanders and Lord Paramount of the Crownlands when Aegon shows up...that way, if he shifts his capital to Harrenhal or Oldtown or something, the Crownlands can exist as a separate area without the name being wrong, and it also gives the Darklyns at Duskendale something to aspire to form (don't the histories note that this area was full of thousands of petty kingdoms that were only occasionally held by the Riverlands? If Crackclaw Point can have its own Kingdom, I think the Blackwater could use one too)...
Argh, darnit, I thought I'd fixed that! There are several different event files that alter the De Jure setup at key points in the game, so changing the landed_titles file and the history files doesn't always do the job...heck, I remember it took me a painfully long time to stop d_kings_landing from being a part of the wrong empire at the start...
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Glad to see you back! I'll look into the buildings without the submod and get back to you. It does seem like the Stauntons would be Lordly (I believe some maester historian said that the Defiance of Duskendale would have been avoidable if he had married a Staunton, but that could have just been anti-Essosi bias). My only real problem with counts being independent from the new Dukes is the massive -25 opinion malus for every independent count. Perhaps in the future this would be better handled by Titular duchies for lords like Staunton? (An example being the titular duchy of Syracuse overlapping with the duchy of Sicily in CK+).
Edit: Okay, I disabled my submods one by one until I was playing without any, and the problem with d_felwood and c_hearts_home persists. I did notice, however, that on day 0 the upgrade cost is as much as it would cost to upgrade the castle to the next level (4050, the price of a level 4 upgrade, which is correct as Felwood is supposed to start at level 3), but on day 1, it goes down to 300 gold, the price of a level one upgrade. I looked at the code again, and still cannot for the life of me figure out what the issue could be.
Edit: Okay, I disabled my submods one by one until I was playing without any, and the problem with d_felwood and c_hearts_home persists. I did notice, however, that on day 0 the upgrade cost is as much as it would cost to upgrade the castle to the next level (4050, the price of a level 4 upgrade, which is correct as Felwood is supposed to start at level 3), but on day 1, it goes down to 300 gold, the price of a level one upgrade. I looked at the code again, and still cannot for the life of me figure out what the issue could be.
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Hmm, that's really weird...especially...wait, hang on, are you sure it's my mod? I just checked, and neither of those files (d_felwood or c_hearts_home) are in the mod directory...maybe it's a problem with the vanilla game?
On another note, found and fixed the problem with Antlers and Kingsroad...copy the Crownland Ancestors file from history/characters and that will fix it for you. Aegon I's personal history contains the code that changes the de_jure borders of the duchies of the Crownlands, not the individual history files for some reason...but I've amended that and it's solved the problem.
I would like to get back into this at some point, but I fear I might not have the time nor manpower to get it properly revamped; the situation with the Duchies is a complex one, since there are so many lords in GOT, and it's not entirely clear which ones are sworn to other lords or higher in rank, and with CKII's current system giving you penalties when you have too many lords in a realm coupled with the GOT mod's inability to create new Duchies unless you directly control the land, it's really going to need someone to look at absolutely EVERYTHING and figure out how to set up the lords from there (it might even require, as you suggested, there being titular duchies in a few places...perhaps ALL the lords should have them). There is one very good thing; at the moment, the de facto rulers for the most part don't change lands at all throughout the whole game, so updating their history is very easy.
I have no problem with other people editing this and continuing where I've begun, though! It looks like the version online is the most up to date one I have, though; the only real changes I'd planned to add from here to the map were to fix c_kingsgrave, as at the moment it's a part of Yronwood, when it should be further west, between the Skyreach and Prince's Pass provinces...oh, and a Duchy of Moat Cailin, which would stop that problem you noted of the Starks giving it up to the Reeds. Oh, and it'd be nice to work in that mini-mod I suggested adding new De Jure Kingdoms for the Bleeding Years start date, to allow some of the older historic Kingdoms to form in a scenario where Aegon doesn't show up...
On another note, found and fixed the problem with Antlers and Kingsroad...copy the Crownland Ancestors file from history/characters and that will fix it for you. Aegon I's personal history contains the code that changes the de_jure borders of the duchies of the Crownlands, not the individual history files for some reason...but I've amended that and it's solved the problem.
I would like to get back into this at some point, but I fear I might not have the time nor manpower to get it properly revamped; the situation with the Duchies is a complex one, since there are so many lords in GOT, and it's not entirely clear which ones are sworn to other lords or higher in rank, and with CKII's current system giving you penalties when you have too many lords in a realm coupled with the GOT mod's inability to create new Duchies unless you directly control the land, it's really going to need someone to look at absolutely EVERYTHING and figure out how to set up the lords from there (it might even require, as you suggested, there being titular duchies in a few places...perhaps ALL the lords should have them). There is one very good thing; at the moment, the de facto rulers for the most part don't change lands at all throughout the whole game, so updating their history is very easy.
I have no problem with other people editing this and continuing where I've begun, though! It looks like the version online is the most up to date one I have, though; the only real changes I'd planned to add from here to the map were to fix c_kingsgrave, as at the moment it's a part of Yronwood, when it should be further west, between the Skyreach and Prince's Pass provinces...oh, and a Duchy of Moat Cailin, which would stop that problem you noted of the Starks giving it up to the Reeds. Oh, and it'd be nice to work in that mini-mod I suggested adding new De Jure Kingdoms for the Bleeding Years start date, to allow some of the older historic Kingdoms to form in a scenario where Aegon doesn't show up...
Oh, and it's personal preference, but I'd love to have the ability to colonise Valyria...yes, it's completely ahistorical, but remember, only the player can colonise a state (as far as I know...I've never seen the AI do it), so it really just means the player has the option to do it if they want, and they can ignore it without it affecting their game at all if they want a more accurate game.
I totally made a submod for that
Also the ai can colonise as well, they get a maintenance event to prompt them to do it sometimes if they meet the conditions
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Ah, I knew I'd seen one somewhere! It's awesome, by the way!
Ah, didn't know that...well, still, I think the odds of the AI getting a hold on Valyria would be slim, and I think interesting enough to not really disrupt the game.
Ah, didn't know that...well, still, I think the odds of the AI getting a hold on Valyria would be slim, and I think interesting enough to not really disrupt the game.
On another note, I'm in the process of making a map just to check which lords are explicitly said to be sworn to another lord in the book, so that we can ensure that my shifting around the counties hasn't affected things too much, and I've noticed a potential problem while editing Dorne...you know how earlier above we were talking about the idea of having Titular Titles for certain rulers to ensure they're the right rank? Well, Dorne has very few provinces, but a LOT of titles, and this means that we'll end up with several OPM rulers occupying every part of a Duchy...and one ruler who then has an unfair advantage because his Duchy is the only one that has De Jure claims to the rest of the region. This also can lead to problems where a Duchy controls an area of land that refers to a region, meaning that if the rulers lose their title to a foe, their foe retains a unique Duchy that's named for their seat, while the deposed ruler has nothing.
While mulling over this, I've concluded that it's a problem that probably won't be completely avoidable, but by redrawing a couple of the Duchy borders (working on it now) and adding in Titular Titles for EVERY major house in Westeros (again, I'm working on exactly who that will be), we might be able to balance it a bit better in places. For instance, take the Lordship of the Torrentine in Dorne. It's divided between two families; the Blackwoods in the north, and the Daynes in the south. At the moment, the Daynes hold the Torrentine title, which gives them an automatic CB on the Blackwoods if they're anything but vassals. With my revised version, there'll be a Titular Lordship of Starfall and a Titular Lordship of Blackmont, and the Lordship of the Torrentine will need to be formed first. The Daynes still have an advantage, since they control the majority, but it buys the Blackmonts some time, and also means that if the Blackmonts gain the title, the Daynes have something to fall back on.
The same thing can work with Sunspear itself, it'll...hmm, actually, it's a bit hard to describe it; you really need the picture I'm looking at...and it's still very much in draft form. Once I get something more substantial, I'll upload that.
While mulling over this, I've concluded that it's a problem that probably won't be completely avoidable, but by redrawing a couple of the Duchy borders (working on it now) and adding in Titular Titles for EVERY major house in Westeros (again, I'm working on exactly who that will be), we might be able to balance it a bit better in places. For instance, take the Lordship of the Torrentine in Dorne. It's divided between two families; the Blackwoods in the north, and the Daynes in the south. At the moment, the Daynes hold the Torrentine title, which gives them an automatic CB on the Blackwoods if they're anything but vassals. With my revised version, there'll be a Titular Lordship of Starfall and a Titular Lordship of Blackmont, and the Lordship of the Torrentine will need to be formed first. The Daynes still have an advantage, since they control the majority, but it buys the Blackmonts some time, and also means that if the Blackmonts gain the title, the Daynes have something to fall back on.
The same thing can work with Sunspear itself, it'll...hmm, actually, it's a bit hard to describe it; you really need the picture I'm looking at...and it's still very much in draft form. Once I get something more substantial, I'll upload that.
Alrighty, so here's how it would look with the De Jure borders;
and the De Facto borders;
In retrospect, it might only really be necessary in places where a single Duchy is divided between two families, but still; it's something I still think is worth looking into...especially because it will help get rid of that negative opinion penalty. Thoughts on this?
Apologies if my notes are a bit sketchy; I've been working on this for a few hours straight now...
and the De Facto borders;
In retrospect, it might only really be necessary in places where a single Duchy is divided between two families, but still; it's something I still think is worth looking into...especially because it will help get rid of that negative opinion penalty. Thoughts on this?
Apologies if my notes are a bit sketchy; I've been working on this for a few hours straight now...
If you're on the topic of fixing borders, The Reach is a freaking mess with this border submod. It's still a mess with the default mod borders, but this submod just makes it insane to fix up when you play The Reach. Some baronies are sworn to families on the other side of the territory, one duchy controls three other de jure ones. It's sort of like France in vanilla. Just a mess and eye sore with someone who has OCD.
It's still a mess with the default mod borders, but this submod just makes it insane to fix up when you play The Reach. Some baronies are sworn to families on the other side of the territory, one duchy controls three other de jure ones. It's sort of like France in vanilla. Just a mess and eye sore with someone who has OCD.
Don't worry, I'm going to get to that one soon...course, the Reach is probably going to be the hardest place in Westeros to tackle, so it'll take a while. In retrospect, that was something that bugged me from the start, but I left it that way because I noticed that even in vanilla there were cases where the holdings were separated rather than a single neat blob.
Are you sure d_felwood and heart's home aren't in your mod? Heart's Home is the seat of the Corbrays (might be c_heartshome, probably should've checked before posting about it). I did a clean download and installation of everything, mod and submods included, and the problem persists. Here's how my de jure set up looks, as well as screenshots of the issue:
As a note, the duke of Felwood does not exist in any start dates (the count is under the duke of Wendwater), I'm just very anal about having thing set up perfectly. Also, it is not just the top baronies in which this problem persists, it's every holding in the county.
As a note, the duke of Felwood does not exist in any start dates (the count is under the duke of Wendwater), I'm just very anal about having thing set up perfectly. Also, it is not just the top baronies in which this problem persists, it's every holding in the county.
Hmm...the only thing I can think might be affecting it is the Kingsroad code, but I could have sworn I'd fixed that. Those are the only changes I made to the Felwood and Galemont files; can't find Amberly or Heart's Home anywhere. Odd...but CKII and the GOT mod are both very complex beasts; it'll be a really obscure file that's clashing with something of mine and causing the glitch.
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On the flip side, Dorne looks really nice. I would be careful of making the Manwoody's more powerful than the Fowlers, however, as they are the true wardens of the princes pass.
IRT baronies in the reach that are sworn to the "wrong" lords, I can think of b_coltishall and b_boningale off the top of my head. Will repeat my earlier suggestion of moving Inchfield closer to Longtable, too, as the Merryweather's held both for centuries.
I'll also continue to investigate the mystery of the broken counties.
IRT baronies in the reach that are sworn to the "wrong" lords, I can think of b_coltishall and b_boningale off the top of my head. Will repeat my earlier suggestion of moving Inchfield closer to Longtable, too, as the Merryweather's held both for centuries.
I'll also continue to investigate the mystery of the broken counties.
Thanks! I'm...well, I'm starting to think about maybe not making the Manwoodys their own Duchy. The thing is, there are SO many Lords in the series, and while in some places it's obvious who's ruling over who, in other areas, it's not clear which lords are the senior. For gameplay purposes, once I've got my map sorted of just which lords are where in the game at the moment, I'm going to hand out Duchies only to the ones explicitly named as the "Principal Houses" in the original book's appendices, or which are listed as significant houses in the World of Ice and Fire book. Then, after that, I'll tweak things here and there. I'm already starting to think it could be a good idea to give the title of Lord Paramount of the Crownlands to the Prince of Dragonstone (or perhaps leave the Kingdom of Dragonstone extant alongside the Crownlands; yes, it's a tad ahistorical, but considering Dragonstone always held the same vassals...), as that way, it allows various Dukes to be sworn directly to Dragonstone, and then them in turn to the King on the Iron Throne. For instance, House Velaryon; one of the most important Crownland houses (and a fairly important house in Westeros history anyway) is said to be a direct vassal of Dragonstone; unless Dragonstone's bumped up a tier, they'll end up with a Count-tier title in this revision.
Hmm, is that canon? I can't find any mention on the wiki of Inchfield being sworn to Longtable...but yes, I'll be looking into that.
It's weird...are you sure that's not showing up in the base game? Unless it's something to do with ducal titles...wait, hang on...AHA! I think I've found it...I've just uploaded a new copy of "geographical_region.txt" to the map folder; download and replace that, and I'm pretty sure that'll fix the bug.
Hmm, is that canon? I can't find any mention on the wiki of Inchfield being sworn to Longtable...but yes, I'll be looking into that.
It's weird...are you sure that's not showing up in the base game? Unless it's something to do with ducal titles...wait, hang on...AHA! I think I've found it...I've just uploaded a new copy of "geographical_region.txt" to the map folder; download and replace that, and I'm pretty sure that'll fix the bug.
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The thing that's a bit wonky when it comes to making Game of Thrones into Crusader Kings 2 is the vassal system. Canon-wise, the Iron Throne always gave the title of Master of Ships to a Velaryon, who is a de jure vassal of Dragonstone. If there's a Prince of Dragonstone, the Velaryons will be sworn to him, not King's Landing. I think it's probably best to not have a Lord Paramount of the Crownlands, since having one will remove pretty much all of the Iron Throne's levies when he/she needs them, since they'll all be sworn to Dragonstone. If a war were to happen and the megawar system does its job and splits the country into Lord Paramountship countries, then the Iron Throne will only be left with the High Lordship of King's Landing, that is if he doesn't give the title to Dragnostone, because it's a de jure of the Crownlands. In that case, the Iron Throne will be left with the few thousand the Red Keep can summon.