Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

The Big Cheeses of France MP Game

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
fasquardon said:
Say, after seeing the disintegration of France this game, I'm wondering if perhaps we should have a human player as king as well, just because the AI is so bad at riding heard over us unruly vassals...

Make the throne elective or semisalic so that players could vie for it as well. (personally I'm up for semisalic, as it makes marriage politics more interesting.)

fasquardon
Click to expand...
He won't be able to do much though. I think it'd be pretty frustrating for anyone to play the puppet of your Dukes. Really, what would he have done? If a Duke wants his land he'd just have to pledge to someone else. He basically would be like a Duke without the advantage of being able to pledge to another King.
 
fasquardon said:
Say, after seeing the disintegration of France this game, I'm wondering if perhaps we should have a human player as king as well, just because the AI is so bad at riding heard over us unruly vassals...

Make the throne elective or semisalic so that players could vie for it as well. (personally I'm up for semisalic, as it makes marriage politics more interesting.)

fasquardon
Click to expand...

Agreed. We'll have to wait for France to be reunited though, otherwise he won't be king of much. One idea for selecting the king (since making a king by conquest would involve conquering most everyone else) is to have an election: i.e., each player gets a number of votes based on how many provinces they have (out of the total number of provinces under the French crown) and the player who receives enough votes to reach the threshold number would gain the crown (through some save file editing) and then from there could decide which in-game succession law to use. It would throw an interesting twist into the election of the first king since the strongest candidates would be forced to forge coalitions through bribes, threats, etc. Think the election of the Pope by the College of Cardinals.
 
I'd like to be able to take my leave of France; as it is the powerplay doesn't really allow a small time duchy to survive and I don't want to take Manstein's place as Bourbon.
 
Ganso said:
I'd like to be able to take my leave of France; as it is the powerplay doesn't really allow a small time duchy to survive and I don't want to take Manstein's place as Bourbon.
Click to expand...

Well, perhaps the limitation to French duchies could be replaced by a limitation on regional duchies, i.e., a west German, northern Spain or southern English one. You would still be able to take part in the regional struggles but without getting caught in the very middle of a large war.
 
Manstein16 said:
Well, perhaps the limitation to French duchies could be replaced by a limitation on regional duchies, i.e., a west German, northern Spain or southern English one. You would still be able to take part in the regional struggles but without getting caught in the very middle of a large war.
Click to expand...

I think that's a fair enough change. So long as everyone is close enough to be interesting, I think it's cool.

And CSK has a good point about about France being limited by not being able to pledge to a king.

fasquardon
 
I think now every Duke in France has the potential to win against others, no matter of the size. Take my action against Fas. I would have one with one third of my size as well, just because I was a vassal of Germany at that time and Fas refused to fight it. That could work as Anjou or Valois as well.

Still, I have no problem with being a Duke in another Kingdom, as long as it has a common border with France (Provence, Lower Lorraine, Upper Lorraine and Dauphine come to mind). But the goal should be to join France over the longterm.

And I think we should restrict pledging to other Kingdoms. Right now it's a real exploit (which I used myself, I know). Probably we shouldn't pledge to another Kingdom at all.

Also, we should have wars within the Kingdom. As we rehost very often anyway, we could just have one side DoW, then edit the save to get the liege out and have the Duke as vassal of France again, then rehost. This would make it more realistic, and I think correcter as well. Still the King could decide to step in and side with one of the Dukes (who'll give him something for it ;) )

All these changes should make it more interesting to be a King. He wouldn't be only a puppet, but have around equal chances. He still could have problems if the other players decide to gang against him, but a Duke has that problem too. It's then just about being able to defend oneself millitary and especially politically.
 
The problem is that France is currently being ravaged by four distinct forces: France itself, England, Germany and Sweden.

Gascony and Toulouse dominate the south/central region and Bourbon dominates the northwestern region (with Britanny going down in internal warfare) which means that, by now, most other duchies are war torn, their armies drafted by the French king, their economies in shreds.

I propose that peace is settled between the great powers so that, for example me and Oka, can actually manage to get an economy going.
 
I don't know what you mean. :confused: Gascony and Toulouse controlled this area from the beginning on. We all already considered peace and joining France, I already did, as did Melle. I don't think anybody has a decent economy right now. Toulouse has not even half of the men it had before the war with Fas, not to talk about losing money (because I was at war when the session ended). Fas and Melle shouldn't really have the economy or strength to ravage around after the war with Sweden, neither should Bourbon. I really don't think there is a "great power" in France, though some are stronger than they were. Being part of other Kingdoms will end soon anyway.
 
Some thoughts:

  • First, what happened in the rest of the game?:) Is Champagne still around?:D
  • I'm not quite sure what man means: if he's saying he wants to only allow sensible pledges to regional powers; or if he's saying we should only avoid those pledges.

    I think that the game would have been best served by a house rule against any repledging. It keeps us all in house. Alternatively, pledging only to England and Germany creates a nice historical flavor.

    Pledging to Sweden does not. :p
  • With that in place, we'll all be scheming to get to the top of the French throne anyway - is there a reason to set up a system, really? Certainly anyone pledged to a separate lord should get no say.

j.
 
CSK said:
I don't know what you mean. :confused: .
Click to expand...

I'll quote myself:

"The problem is that France is currently being ravaged by four distinct forces: France itself, England, Germany and Sweden."

That, for me, is the problem; unlike you guys I will have to grab a duchy which was previously controlled by the AI which means that who infact controls said army is the King of France which in turns makes it hard to have any stability (in terms of economy) due to scutage and army upkeep. That was what I meant.
This is what happened when I was playing Flandres: I offered to pledge for Germany and England, Germany accepted and I became a vassal of Germany but two days later, and with my loyalty still very low, the English king answered yes which means I then became a vassal of England and Germany reacted by declaring war.
Seeing as I had a CTD and couldn't come back the AI took control of Flandres and went completely off scale, which mean that by the time I had returned Flandres was... well, a one province-one vassal domain with all it's armies under the king's command.
 
Llywelyn said:
Some thoughts:

  • First, what happened in the rest of the game?:) Is Champagne still around?:D
Click to expand...

  • It is and it lives quite well. I don't think anything happened to you.

    Ganso got wiped out and now plays a new Duke of Flanders, Okawoa has a crazed Duke and fights all his vassals, Fas was gangraped by Manstein and me (not gangbanged, I was not at war with Fas, only stole Auvergne :p ) and Melle and Fas won against Manstein and Sweden. I went into Spain as well.

    Llywelyn said:
    [*]I'm not quite sure what man means: if he's saying he wants to only allow sensible pledges to regional powers; or if he's saying we should only avoid those pledges.

    I think that the game would have been best served by a house rule against any repledging. It keeps us all in house. Alternatively, pledging only to England and Germany creates a nice historical flavor.
    Click to expand...
    No pledging to other Kingdoms at all. Historical flavour might be good, but not if two thirds of France pledge to England in five years. If you want to get part of England, I'm fine with this. But do it by marriages. It is by far more historical if a Duchy evolves slowly into a part of England by getting more and more English, than by just pledging when you don't like the French King. Same goes with Germany of course.

    Llywelyn said:
    [*]With that in place, we'll all be scheming to get to the top of the French throne anyway - is there a reason to set up a system, really? Certainly anyone pledged to a separate lord should get no say.
    Click to expand...
What use is the French throne? Why do you want to be King of France. You should have seen it in the last game, France had less men than Manstein or I had. If the Dukes refuse to help it, it stays no chance against them. This would not be the case if we had wars within the Kingdom and the Dukes had to go independent instead of joining another realm.

Ganso said:
... and army upkeep...
Click to expand...
You do realise you could just get it to 0% if your liege has it and he'll not lose any troops?
 
Ganso said:
Seeing as I had a CTD and couldn't come back the AI took control of Flandres and went completely off scale, which mean that by the time I had returned Flandres was... well, a one province-one vassal domain with all it's armies under the king's command.
Click to expand...

:rofl:​
 
I definetly think repledging should be forbidden. With that I mean that you can only pledge to another King if you've broken off from your previous one, be it by declaring war or by peaceful means.

As for how the situation stands now.. well this was only the beginning, there's a lot of time for things to change. Maybe when Okawoa's nutty ruler dies, he'll go on to rule the world :D

Also, I'm a bit sad that the difficulty was set to normal. Although CSK/me/us/whoever seems to have profited the most from this, I still think VH difficulty is a must.
 
Shuma said:
I definetly think repledging should be forbidden. With that I mean that you can only pledge to another King if you've broken off from your previous one, be it by declaring war or by peaceful means.
Click to expand...

Why not just have it mean you're French and you have to stay French or independent - period?

We aren't playing English dukes, are we?

Also, I'm a bit sad that the difficulty was set to normal. Although CSK/me/us/whoever seems to have profited the most from this, I still think VH difficulty is a must.
Click to expand...

I'm for whatever makes the AI smarter - Fas says that even though human claims are cheaper at N, AI claims are more expensive and that makes the AI behave better. The less the AI mimics the kind of stupidity we were just responsible for, the better, IMO :D

j.
 
Ok, let's see. A player list? How about these?

Fasquardon: Gascony.

Manstein16(not here now, place open until he returns in some months): Bourbon.

Shuma: Toulouse.

Llywelyn: Champagne.

Okawoa: Britanny.

Ganso: Flandres. (though he's undecided)

Melle: Burgundy

CSK (ie me): Permanent sub. Won't play this weekend though.

Other free places in France: Anjou, Vermandois.

Outside of France but have to pledge soon: Lower Lorraine, Upper Lorraine, Provence, Normandie...
 
Well as you might remember, I had problems with connecting when we started the previous MP game. I haven't been able to mess with the router, because the internet provider did not give my flatmate the password when they installed it, but rather inisist that they come over and do any changes to it themselves, which of course they will then charge. I still think it might be something with the firewall on my computer, so if someone could show up half an hour earlier so I could test and tweak it a bit, I'd be very grateful.
 
Shuma said:
Well as you might remember, I had problems with connecting when we started the previous MP game. I haven't been able to mess with the router, because the internet provider did not give my flatmate the password when they installed it, but rather inisist that they come over and do any changes to it themselves, which of course they will then charge. I still think it might be something with the firewall on my computer, so if someone could show up half an hour earlier so I could test and tweak it a bit, I'd be very grateful.
Click to expand...

Shoom, if you're still around, I could check it now.

j.
 
CSK said:
Manstein16(not here now, place open until he returns in some months)
Click to expand...

Really? Where'd he go?

Ganso: Flandres. (though he's undecided)
Click to expand...

About playing or being Flandres?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back