The big "what's missing" thread for devs

[el_kloklo]

Hello guys,
I've read the whole topic, and there some points I agree, and some others I disagree. It seems most of you are fan of the Majesty first of name, and they miss this hero or this monster, or find that the voices are pityfull. I fully disagree with this, and this kind of fan knowing better the spirit of the first one than anyone else are just searching a copy of the old one with 3d, that's not the point. I think this game has a good potential, but IT DON'T HAVE TO BE A CLONE, and even with this, this kind of fan should be unsatisfied. But well some improvement could be required, as said before :
-A map generator will be a very good thing.
-The ability of destroy building could be very usefull. To avoid the exploration building tactic, I disagree with the payment method, but I would suggest an unbuild method, which mean that a peasant have to come and destroy the building until it is considered as unbuild, and this could work only with completed building. -> you have first to finish the building before destroying it.
-info about building losse could be such important. Or info like a hero is homeless. "You're majesty, a hero is homeless" with the portrait.
-A defence flag on a zone could be so good too. Too avoid the explore cheating method which seems to be a fear of dev, you could only put it to a defined range of the shroud.
-Fear flag should stay permantly, or at least decrease slowly. There are going out too fast to be usefull, and they need too much money to be efficient
-A party info or other member of the party in the "hero only" view. Like a smaller star. party should have number, to link with the star : the ranger leader of my second party have a big star with a 3, and all his team have small star with a 3.
-possibility to set in option the possibility to see more or less heroes/party on the panel.
-Subtitle in the ingame cinematics. If you're playing without the sound, you will never know what is saying a the ghost of the wedding in the skeleton king story. It should also be so cool to have access to previous message.
-Stats of the previous
-an info on flag which could allow to know who is doing this quest


There also other contents I am ready yo pay in an expand pack like :
-a longer campaign than 15 mission of 1h30.
-a random generator campaign : like random mission generator, but you keep lords for the next missiom, like in a normal campaign, and difficulty of game grows harder.
-an economy gestion improved : You could set high price to get back more money, or low price to give heroes more access to stuff
-a cooperative multiplay -> each player handle his kingdom and heroes, and they've the same objective.
-an advanced cooperative multiplay -> one player handle the kingdom, and each other player play directly a single hero, like in an hack slash but more simplified. Thy coul switch beetween heroes every half minute to avoid them of play a full groupchanging each second of character.
-an half cooperative mode : player have their kingdom, don't attack each other, but expect the other to fail. Heroes can earn money for each player quest, and buy in each player shop => you could be screwed because the other player parties do your quest and get your rewards, and they buy potions in the shop of a third player. victory condition could be last man stand against wave of monsters.
-a map/campaign editor, complete but not unusable by normal human beings.
-a random mission generator which is not genrating the same objectives : destroy this lair, survive X time, bring an hero to this level, exterminate all this kind of monster, accumulate gold, do this before reaching X days...
-could also be good that this random objectives could be set in multiplay, and with an option to allow players to have different -> Oh I've to bring my hero to level XX, but you've got to bring XXXXX gold, and he had to destroy this lair, who will do it first?

I really hope from this game, and if I remember well Paradox devs worked with community for EU. I've buyed it, and my only problem is the shortness of game. Have all fun with it.


Off-Topic: If I remember well there was a kind of fog of war in dune 2, because the shroud was getting back after a while

 

[unmerged(170898)]

I'm so glad that Valentine pointed this out. I think there is a fairly reasonable compromise and fix for building demolition contained in this and a few other posts. Undoubtedly, limiting crawling exploration is probably desirable, and as a player of the original I'm not bothered by the fact that this was incorporated. However, there are certainly times where that damn peasant house NEEDS to move even if it IS a nasty expensive hit to your fragile infant economy. Demolition at a cost or some sort of bounty threashold price where heros would ignore the bounty on a friendly building below x gold and would make it cost prohibitive to use the feature often, seem to me to be a nice compromise solution. Another way this could be accomplished perhaps is via the dwarf guild and heafty technology research. This pretty well shuts down crawling as an early game tactic. The idea of having to build within a certain distance of another building or building site (as in the case of putting a tower near the trading post site) is a fairly viable option as well.

None of this is a dealbreaker for me if it isn't changed, but I sure do miss rogues being willing to do this sort of dirty work for me

 

[unmerged(170981)]

Heya, I'm semi-new here

I've read alot of the discussion and I thought, stop roaming the forums and post something. So here it is, my thoughts on something.

FEAR FLAGS

To be completely honest, these seem so ineffective I find using them pointless. What's the point in telling your heroes, "Hey you, stay away from there if you're not strong enough."

From what I've read, they, disappear too quickly was it? Well regardless I do realise that Fear Flags can be useful. (Its personal opinion which dislikes them in their current form). Currently I find that the only place they have in my games are to keep my weak optimists from getting their heads caved in by wandering too close to the final lair. I say final lair, because that's the only place where any monsters tend to stay in one place.

If you place a Fear Flag, your heroes will stay away from that area. However, usually you want them to avoid the monsters which roam that, frustratingly small area which the Fear Cloud encompasses. Problems start happening when the power monsters which you want them to avoid march out of that Fear Cloud and begin killing things.

When I played that mission where you have to kill the 35000 health Ogre. I tried to place countless Fear Flags to stop my heroes from wandering too close to him while he slept. And then a lousy peasant wanted to fix a house next to his head (graaah! I say!). But thats a different matter.

To get to this point, Fear Flags, need to be able to target specific monsters. It would be good to have players able to place Area Fear Flags and Individual Fear Flags. Also for the flags to have no cost and last until you remove them. At first every hero should be Feared away from this Flag, but the Player should be able to then either set a minimum level for engaging this monster or hunting in that area, or select which heroes you would allow to do those things.

 

[unmerged(139034)]

Hello guys,
I've read the whole topic, and there some points I agree, and some others I disagree. It seems most of you are fan of the Majesty first of name, and they miss this hero or this monster, or find that the voices are pityfull. I fully disagree with this, and this kind of fan knowing better the spirit of the first one than anyone else are just searching a copy of the old one with 3d, that's not the point. I think this game has a good potential, but IT DON'T HAVE TO BE A CLONE, and even with this, this kind of fan should be unsatisfied. But well some improvement could be required, as said before :

You really miss the point. Majesty fans don't want a clone, but we don't want to give up everything that made the original Majesty great either. Heroes should have more behaviors, there should be a free play option of some kind, ect.

 

[unmerged(139034)]

I'm so glad that Valentine pointed this out. I think there is a fairly reasonable compromise and fix for building demolition contained in this and a few other posts. Undoubtedly, limiting crawling exploration is probably desirable, and as a player of the original I'm not bothered by the fact that this was incorporated. However, there are certainly times where that damn peasant house NEEDS to move even if it IS a nasty expensive hit to your fragile infant economy. Demolition at a cost or some sort of bounty threashold price where heros would ignore the bounty on a friendly building below x gold and would make it cost prohibitive to use the feature often, seem to me to be a nice compromise solution. Another way this could be accomplished perhaps is via the dwarf guild and heafty technology research. This pretty well shuts down crawling as an early game tactic. The idea of having to build within a certain distance of another building or building site (as in the case of putting a tower near the trading post site) is a fairly viable option as well.

None of this is a dealbreaker for me if it isn't changed, but I sure do miss rogues being willing to do this sort of dirty work for me

Thank you very much

 

[unmerged(169164)]

As a Majest player, I expected Majesty 2 to be at least a clone of Majesty. I never hid that.
Dont know if people play Uncharted/Uncharted 2 here but the devs did not take much risks in terms of game mecanisms. They dont change them and improved the game elsewhere. The recipe is still the same.

Expanding on a solid base is not always a bad idea.

 

[unmerged(139034)]

As a Majest player, I expected Majesty 2 to be at least a clone of Majesty. I never hid that.
Dont know if people play Uncharted/Uncharted 2 here but the devs did not take much risks in terms of game mecanisms. They dont change them and improved the game elsewhere. The recipe is still the same.

Majesty 2 should have all of the features that Majesty had, but I think the way you're using the word clone is very different from how most people would use it here. When most people hear of a game being a clone they picture it being pretty much the same game in most ways.

Expanding on a solid base is not always a bad idea.

Expanding on a solid base is almost never a bad idea! It's an excellent idea! Diablo 2 is a good example of this, Diablo 2 kept all of the core aspects of Diablo but it was not a clone at all. It introduced so many radically new elements that even though it was Diablo in every way, it was also an entirely new game.

 

[el_kloklo]

You really miss the point. Majesty fans don't want a clone, but we don't want to give up everything that made the original Majesty great either. Heroes should have more behaviors, there should be a free play option of some kind, ect.

For what I've read here and otherwise, most of M1 fans reproach to the game to don't fit enough the original one. About the behaviour of heroes, it seems, I can't certify it because I never played M1 but old player confirmed it, that the heroes where much numerous and so were able to waste more of their personnal time, because other could defend the city and companions for them. Of course some elements have to be preserved, but I don't think heroes, at their actual price and quantities, should be able to have more personnal occupation. Being more unique will be cool, for sure, but their various reaction to flags and fleeing threshold are different by class. It will be such and headache to know that this hero only react only to attack flag on low level, but later he will only react on defence flags on other heroes and later again react differently. But I don't want the game to be such a classic RTS like there are thousands in shops. I agree with most of intelligent point like a map generator and sandbox or building rotation, but I fully disagree with the one saying M1 was better, all that we want is dev to go back and release a majesty 1 but with graphics. That's senseless.

Also as I'm still here, I should suggest for an expand a new kind of building : the marketrelay (or aplly this to trade post), which could be only build when you have a marketplace, do not generate any gold by itself, and sell all the things you can find in the market. Because it's a bit boring heroes have to walk across the whole map for a single life potion.

 

[unmerged(169164)]

Actually the trading post was supposed to sell all the potions the market place and the magic bazaar sell (web site depiction on trading post, tab commerce if I remember well)

It is not that much a number of heroes, monsters. More of a game concept approach.

In Majesty, heroes are able to initiate fundamental changes in the map, leading to the map to be resolved without your intervention (sometimes)
To diminish this, the gameplay includes other activities which delay heroes in their attempt in trying to solve the map by themselves. Those activities (picking up flowers, collecting plants, going to the inn for the purpose of socializing...) are not mere decorum, they have a game play justification and fit a requirement in a sim game concept.
In Majesty, if heroes have no other life than "questing" (on the King's behalf or their own behalf), the game would be devoid of any interest.

In Majesty 2, heroes can no longer initiate those fundamental changes (like destroying lairs or exploring) Consequently, there is no longer a justification for all the things who provide heroes' life with something other than questing. In Majesty 2, personal lifes would be a mere decorum as heroes no longer need to be diverted from completing the map instead of you.

There was a radical change.
And the issue is a difficult one as a number of Majesty players do not like heroes being able to initiate deep changes to the map but prefer to have full command over a decision as critical as removing a lair from the map.

 

[unmerged(7333)]

In Majesty, if heroes have no other life than "questing" (on the King's behalf or their own behalf), the game would be devoid of any interest.

So you're saying that Majesty 1 would not be interesting if the heroes had no lives outside of "questing", but Majesty 2 adds the interest back by giving the heroes absolutely no life at all? I am confused by your "logic".

Majesty 2 heroes do still have their own 'lives' outside of questing, they're just so horribly narrow, robotic and carelessly implemented that they posses zero charm or personality and add nothing to the vibe of the game.

A hero in M1 would stop planting flowers or whatever to respond to a flag, or defend their home or palace. A hero in M2 will walk 500 miles past the hordes of hell while Lex Luthor poops in his bed and the devil himself sodomizes his wife, to your one market on the entire map to buy 20 bucks worth of potions.

In M1 the hero's AI made the game interesting... to this day it's still on my HD just a click away from another game. In M2 the hero's AI makes me want to spit at my monitor, and wish I could just box select them and get it over with like every other RTS out there. In M1 the indirect control was part of the challenge of the game and really got you into seeing what was going on, who was responding to your flags and who wasn't and why. In M2 the indirect control is just a different form of the direct-control found in every other game ever. In other words, what's the point of having an indirect control scheme, if the heroes are all just waiting around town for me to pop a flag down any way?

In M1 just the act of choosing to create certain heroes was a way for you to respond to different threats, because different heroes had different behaviors and were good at doing different things. In M2 it doesn't matter what you make as long as you keep them alive till lvl 8. So great is the lack of any sort of strategic balance or tension that there's already posts on here about an all-rogue spam tactic working out better than trying to recruit different units.

Also, your argument that Cyberlore created the extra hero actions in M1 strictly to balance the fact that otherwise they would just go out and own the map is pure conjecture on your part, and I doubt it's true. I think they added them becuase they knew it would be fun, they knew it would make their game stand out among the rest, and by the time the heroes were so bored as to be knocking down lairs on their own, the game was already won anyway.

If you are a King, successfully providing for your henchmen, they should be out winning victories in your name. The whole premise of Majesty was you are a King with questionably loyal subjects, not you are a squad leader who has to tell every unit what to do. There are 10,000 games that do that, there is only one where you are a sometimes-obeyed King trying to make the most of your motley but lovable assortment of crusaders, zealots, dreamers and ne'er-do-wells. Sadly not two, like I was hoping for.

 

[Alfryd]

So you're saying that Majesty 1 would not be interesting if the heroes had no lives outside of "questing", but Majesty 2 adds the interest back by giving the heroes absolutely no life at all? I am confused by your "logic".

Majesty 2 heroes do still have their own 'lives' outside of questing, they're just so horribly narrow, robotic and carelessly implemented that they posses zero charm or personality and add nothing to the vibe of the game.

A hero in M1 would stop planting flowers or whatever to respond to a flag, or defend their home or palace. A hero in M2 will walk 500 miles past the hordes of hell while Lex Luthor poops in his bed and the devil himself sodomizes his wife, to your one market on the entire map to buy 20 bucks worth of potions.

In M1 the hero's AI made the game interesting... to this day it's still on my HD just a click away from another game. In M2 the hero's AI makes me want to spit at my monitor, and wish I could just box select them and get it over with like every other RTS out there. In M1 the indirect control was part of the challenge of the game and really got you into seeing what was going on, who was responding to your flags and who wasn't and why. In M2 the indirect control is just a different form of the direct-control found in every other game ever. In other words, what's the point of having an indirect control scheme, if the heroes are all just waiting around town for me to pop a flag down any way?

In M1 just the act of choosing to create certain heroes was a way for you to respond to different threats, because different heroes had different behaviors and were good at doing different things. In M2 it doesn't matter what you make as long as you keep them alive till lvl 8. So great is the lack of any sort of strategic balance or tension that there's already posts on here about an all-rogue spam tactic working out better than trying to recruit different units.

Also, your argument that Cyberlore created the extra hero actions in M1 strictly to balance the fact that otherwise they would just go out and own the map is pure conjecture on your part, and I doubt it's true. I think they added them becuase they knew it would be fun, they knew it would make their game stand out among the rest, and by the time the heroes were so bored as to be knocking down lairs on their own, the game was already won anyway.

If you are a King, successfully providing for your henchmen, they should be out winning victories in your name. The whole premise of Majesty was you are a King with questionably loyal subjects, not you are a squad leader who has to tell every unit what to do. There are 10,000 games that do that, there is only one where you are a sometimes-obeyed King trying to make the most of your motley but lovable assortment of crusaders, zealots, dreamers and ne'er-do-wells. Sadly not two, like I was hoping for.

I'm pretty well in agreement with the above, but I would just point out that- considered in isolation- Maj2 isn't a bad game. It's reasonably polished, the art is good-but-not-great, there have been substantial improvements to class balance and, while it's not terribly imaginative, it is more-or-less functional. You can play, and not run into any serious, crippling mishaps because of bad design or implementation.

I don't like much of the self-deprecating humour and general disrespect for the setting, I'd have preferred something closer to Maj1's art style, and the AI is, without qualification, criminal. That, plus, the absence of sandbox/skirmish play- or just the ability to play on after a mission- show that there is a serious, serious gulf between the developers, publishers, and fans of the original game. But, AI aside, considered on it's own merits, there's not much about Maj2 that's actually bad. ...It's just not living up to it's legacy.

 

[ItsEggrollTime]

and the AI is, without qualification, criminal.

You don't even own the game and just beat the demo today. It's criminal that you are drawing this conclusion without any extensive playtime. You've admitted to not seeing the point of parties and barely using them, so how can you judge the AI when you aren't using a key feature? The game revolves around the party system, if you choose to play it without learning and using the party system then that is on you. You're driving down the road with the E-brake on insulting the car for sloppy handling. Take the time to learn party usage, you'll see the AI does what it's supposed to.

 

[unmerged(169164)]

So you're saying that Majesty 1 would not be interesting if the heroes had no lives outside of "questing", but Majesty 2 adds the interest back by giving the heroes absolutely no life at all? I am confused by your "logic".

And the rest.

It is not pure conjecture. On certain small maps, in Majesty, heroes solve the general quest without your help. I dont think a self-solving game bears any interest.

The small tasks, the side tasks are what allow the King to breathe and not being outsped by his heroes in Majesty. It does not work on certain small maps.
It works on medium and big maps. Without them, more maps would be self solved.

Never written anywhere that Majesty 2 added interest in the way you noted.

I underlined that the personal lifes are not a mere decorum in Majesty (it is the way some people depict them), they serve a gameplay purpose.

In terms of interest, introducing the personal lifes in Majesty 2 without the counter point they are supposed to balance out (heroes can initiate deep changes in the map) bears no interest.
One cant go without the other in terms of gameplay. Either both are introduced or neither are introduced.
Majesty 2 is spot on that: as heroes' initiative was removed, leading the personal lifes to be a useless decorum and such removed as well.

You've admitted to not seeing the point of parties and barely using them, so how can you judge the AI when you aren't using a key feature? The game revolves around the party system, if you choose to play it without learning and using the party system then that is on you. You're driving down the road with the E-brake on insulting the car for sloppy handling. Take the time to learn party usage, you'll see the AI does what it's supposed to.

I dont know how much extensive play time is. But I went through the game and ran several experiments.
The MU side can revolve around the party system as the way it is implemented shows it is a MU feature. Parties dont weight much in single player.
But you can go further in detail to explain how the game revolves around parties.

 

[Draxynnic]

I'm somewhat amused that Habadacus and EggrollTime have the same avatar while having pretty much diametrically opposed positions...

I'm pretty well in agreement with the above, but I would just point out that- considered in isolation- Maj2 isn't a bad game. It's reasonably polished, the art is good-but-not-great, there have been substantial improvements to class balance and, while it's not terribly imaginative, it is more-or-less functional. You can play, and not run into any serious, crippling mishaps because of bad design or implementation.

I don't like much of the self-deprecating humour and general disrespect for the setting, I'd have preferred something closer to Maj1's art style, and the AI is, without qualification, criminal. That, plus, the absence of sandbox/skirmish play- or just the ability to play on after a mission- show that there is a serious, serious gulf between the developers, publishers, and fans of the original game. But, AI aside, considered on it's own merits, there's not much about Maj2 that's actually bad. ...It's just not living up to it's legacy.

Without being quite so harsh about the AI (although it certainly has its shortfalls), this is pretty much my position as well. Majesty 2 is a good game... but it could (have) be(en) so much better.

(It may be worth noting here that I actually have a similar attitude towards the infamous Third One of Star Control 3, for those familiar with that franchise.)

 

[Hassat Hunter]

It is not pure conjecture. On certain small maps, in Majesty, heroes solve the general quest without your help. I dont think a self-solving game bears any interest.

Only on "easy". Expert quests or freestyles with small maps definitely cannot be won with just watching the show.
Sure, one could win even Spires of Death with watching, but that took about 200 days, 4x as many as being interactive...

 

[Alfryd]

You don't even own the game and just beat the demo today. It's criminal that you are drawing this conclusion without any extensive playtime. You've admitted to not seeing the point of parties and barely using them, so how can you judge the AI when you aren't using a key feature?

Let me see- because effective parties should be forming by themselves. The very fact that effective party-making is left entirely in the hands of the players shows the weakness of the AI system. There is no party AI. I have to make all those decisions by myself.
There's no hit and run. No reliable judgement of when to flee in combat. No judgement of when to quaff bazaar potions. Heroes switch to completely inappropriate behaviours at the most bizarre times, and obliviously stick to previous behaviours when they should be switching. You can see all this in about 15 minutes' worth of play. It's things like this that make me reluctant to buy the game in the first place.

I will admit that Maj2's AI isn't quite so awful by the standards of game AI in general, but that really is saying very little- Game AI, as a rule, sucks. That's no excuse for failing to improve on the AI of a decade-old game that was spotty and crude even by the standards of the time.

 

[unmerged(169164)]

Only on "easy". Expert quests or freestyles with small maps definitely cannot be won with just watching the show.
Sure, one could win even Spires of Death with watching, but that took about 200 days, 4x as many as being interactive...

How many days in Majesty 2 for a self completion by heroes?

 

[unmerged(139034)]

For what I've read here and otherwise, most of M1 fans reproach to the game to don't fit enough the original one.

No, most Majesty fans are upset that so many of the things that made the original great are missing from the sequel. The hero AI lacks charm, there are less misc activities, no fairgrounds or gazebo, no freestyle maps (just mission maps), no continue button after the game is over, no freeplay options whatsoever (even for mission maps), ect.

Most Majesty 1 fans want everything that Majesty 2 has to offer, but also everything that Majesty 1 had to offer. Majesty 1 fans don't want a clone, they want a sequel that sacrifices nothing. Again allow me to use Diablo and Diablo 2 as an example. Diablo 2 was not a clone of Diablo, but it had everything Diablo had and more.

 

[Draxynnic]

How many days in Majesty 2 for a self completion by heroes?

100 or so for missions with a boss that attacks after a time limit. Either those heroes have won or you're (as good as) dead.

Less flippantly, though, at the time your heroes are bored enough to start going out to raid lairs on their own, often that means you've become strong enough that that lair's destruction was pretty much guaranteed anyway. There are exceptions, but 90% of the time when a hero started raiding a lair, putting a reward on it would simple have been a formality anyway.

Really, in Majesty 1, if your heroes are going out and clearing lairs by themselves, it's generally a sign that you've done your primary job - built up an infrastracture that allows them to do so. It's not like you ever could simply sit and do nothing and win - just that it's possible that once you've got to a point where you've pretty much won anyway, sometimes your heroes will go and finish the job themselves rather than waiting for you to give the order.

 

[unmerged(169164)]

The sims revolving around characters are often a matter of providing your characters with the environment they need to accomplish the general goals so once again I dont see how the last comment fits.