Good reading, a nice mixture of British merchant adventurism and Ikea style agricultural thought logical. A maestro indeed.
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Now I get the anti-swede bit... A beyond Ikea level of rage... Wow! That is true hate! 
Note, I went and read the other AAR in its entirety... Hence the getting it...
Note, I went and read the other AAR in its entirety... Hence the getting it...
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Not true hate as such...it's more like an obsessive flattery...walking along the slim boundary between infatuation and stalking.Bafflegab said:Now I get the anti-swede bit... A beyond Ikea level of rage... Wow! That is true hate!
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Exactly like the british empire then?
Also, you forgot horrible food. Precisely like the british empire.
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Arilou said:Exactly like the british empire then?
Also, you forgot horrible food. Precisely like the british empire.
I'll say! Have you ever been to Scotland? If you thought haggis was bad, wait until you taste a fried Mars bar.
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El Pip said:
Hrmm.
To be honest, I'm not sure how much the Japanese would change. After all, from a Machiavellian point of view, having the Japanese bogged down in China makes sense. And given the Nationalists themselves, I can see Britain selling China down the Yellow River.
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Its amazing how long this stays on the first page with so little input from the author.......
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Sir Humphrey - Sir H, glad to see you round these parts again. Can we expect to see Sacred Grove return after its short rest?
Vann the Red - I have plans for Scandinavia, that update was laying some ground work.
Bafflegab - I was ambivalent towards Sweden before trying the 1944 scenario. Then the shear level of stupidity/prejudice/laziness in the scenario design unleashed the rage.
scubadoobie2 - It's more like an irrational anger than actual hate.
Arilou - Design life of Ikea tat - couple of months. Democracy, railways and trial by jury in Australia, Canada, India, etc - still working after decades.
As I said, the two have nothing in common.
C&D - It's Glaswegian Deep-fried Heroin that's the stuff you should really avoid...
Faeelin - While going into China is almost inevitable, with consequences probably similar to what historically happened, there is the issue of which army 'Faction' is dominant. If those who understand mechanisation and logistics, rather than those believe in the primacy of elan and spirit are dominant, Japan may end up taking a different path. There's also the sizeable anti-communist clique who favour pre-emptive war with the Soviet Union, look at the various border incidents that were engineered 1938/39.
If the mechanisation faction win out then Japan could win those border battles, fighting tanks are a better AT weapon than flair after all. If that happens the army's northern strike plan could win out over the navy's southern strike plan (the historic winner). Sino-Soviet war anyone?
The British position is fairly complex, Japan was viewed as the enemy before Germany's European aggression, the millions spent on Singapore in the early 1930s are testament to that. With that aggression seemingly contained Japan may retain her position as top threat, whether that is enough to tip the balance is a different question though.
Jalex - Provocative Swede bashing and/or unfettered magnificence are clearly the only reasons this is the case.
Next update almost done (on night shift last night so sleeping pattern is ruined). It's been most worrying to write though, both the Italian and French AIs have acted competently, acting according to realistic politics and grand strategy respectively. Frankly I'm worried.
Vann the Red - I have plans for Scandinavia, that update was laying some ground work.
Bafflegab - I was ambivalent towards Sweden before trying the 1944 scenario. Then the shear level of stupidity/prejudice/laziness in the scenario design unleashed the rage.
scubadoobie2 - It's more like an irrational anger than actual hate.
Arilou - Design life of Ikea tat - couple of months. Democracy, railways and trial by jury in Australia, Canada, India, etc - still working after decades.
As I said, the two have nothing in common.
C&D - It's Glaswegian Deep-fried Heroin that's the stuff you should really avoid...
Faeelin - While going into China is almost inevitable, with consequences probably similar to what historically happened, there is the issue of which army 'Faction' is dominant. If those who understand mechanisation and logistics, rather than those believe in the primacy of elan and spirit are dominant, Japan may end up taking a different path. There's also the sizeable anti-communist clique who favour pre-emptive war with the Soviet Union, look at the various border incidents that were engineered 1938/39.
If the mechanisation faction win out then Japan could win those border battles, fighting tanks are a better AT weapon than flair after all. If that happens the army's northern strike plan could win out over the navy's southern strike plan (the historic winner). Sino-Soviet war anyone?
The British position is fairly complex, Japan was viewed as the enemy before Germany's European aggression, the millions spent on Singapore in the early 1930s are testament to that. With that aggression seemingly contained Japan may retain her position as top threat, whether that is enough to tip the balance is a different question though.
Jalex - Provocative Swede bashing and/or unfettered magnificence are clearly the only reasons this is the case.
Next update almost done (on night shift last night so sleeping pattern is ruined). It's been most worrying to write though, both the Italian and French AIs have acted competently, acting according to realistic politics and grand strategy respectively. Frankly I'm worried.
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Chapter LI: Fallout and Aftershocks Part II - Central Europe.
Chapter LI: Fallout and Aftershocks Part II - Central Europe.
When considering the Rhineland Crisis it is important to bear in mind that neither side had actually expected events to unfold as they did. This was especially true on the French side, no plans had been prepared for what to do next, save those by the General Staff which had assumed the outbreak of war between the two nations. There was, in modern jargon, no exit strategy, no idea of when, or even how, to pull the troops out of the Rhineland without losing face or encouraging the Germans to march in the moment they left. More worryingly was the question of time, while the initial response had gained France a measure of respect and was broadly supported, most Germany's neighbours had an interest in seeing the country restrained from such aggression, that support would not last long if France was perceived as the aggressor. The longer France stayed the more questions were asked about what exactly her motives were and if she would in fact leave at all.
Sarraut's government was not unaware of these concerns but was seriously distracted by the emergence of another serious problem in French foreign policy; the obvious collapse of the Entente Cordiale. The failure had been progressive and relatively good natured, relations with Britain had not seriously deteriorated, the two nations had too many common interests for that, but there was no doubt the never-formal alliance had taken a mortal blow. The root cause was the failure of France to support Britain during the Abyssinian War, that France was under no obligation to join the war and that Britain had succeeded without French help were beside the point to Chamberlain and the rest of the government. The blunt truth was that France had not been there when Britain had needed an ally, so why should Britain commit herself to do what France had so conspicuously not done? The British Ambassador to Paris summed up the problem, having been bombarded with excellent reasons why France had not intervened this time but would certainly do so in the future he commented "The purpose of an alliance is not to have a friend help when it is convenient for them, but to have them come to your aid when it is convenient for you."
The Franco-Czech-Polish Alliance sent shock waves throughout the continent. The balance of power was shifting as France re-asserted herself in Central and Eastern Europe
The solution to these two problem was as elegant as it was audacious, providing France with both a tangible result from the Rhineland intervention and allies to replace the defunct Entente. Quite simply France entered into a full, formal defensive alliance with both Poland and Czechoslovakia. The existing web of limited pacts, qualified agreements and contradictory secret clauses were swept away and the three nations agreed to come to the defence of the other parties in the event they were attacked. The benefits to France were obvious; two new allies, one with a large army, the other with a strong industrial base, both of whom had considerable interest in constraining Germany. For the the Czechs and the Poles the advantages were less clear cut, the advantage of a French guarantee of independence had to be weighed against gaining a new commitment to the third nation, not just against German aggression but any attack. In Poland the centrist 'Castle faction' around President Ignacy Moscicki presented the treaty as a triumph, a treaty that offered guaranteed support in the ongoing territorial disputes with Germany, an argument sufficient to win around General Rydz-Smigly's right wing military faction and ensure the treaty was accepted. The Czech's, who had been unwilling to formalise the alliances in earlier years, were a considerably harder sell for the French diplomats. The essential problem had been that the Czechs had no wish to get involved in the ongoing territorial disputes between Poland and Germany. However Germany's actions in attempting to seize the Rhineland, when seen through the prism of well known German designs on the Sudetenland, had served to focus minds on the immediate threat from that nation. In the end the advantage of two allies with far larger armies outweighed concerns over the extra commitments and the country agreed to join. The solid electoral triumph of President Edvard Beneš, the former foreign minister, gave the government a respected leader and a strong mandate to push the alliance through and ensure full Czech involvement.
The New Entente, as the Franco-Czech-Polish alliance became known, was not the only diplomatic offensive undertaken by the Quai d'Orsay, there was also the matter of the Little Entente, the French sponsored three way alliance between Czechoslovakia, Romania and Yugoslavia. With the Czechs and the French now formally allied the weight of French diplomatic pressure, and the skill and determination of the alliances founding father, the recently elected President Beneš, was applied to influencing Romania and Yugoslavia into joining the New Entente. In Romania these efforts met with failure, while the country was involved in many territorial disputes King Carol II and his Prime Minister Gheorghe Tatarescu believed they were in hand; a "Protocol of Mutual Assistance" had been signed with the Soviet Union securing the northern border while the existing Little Entente arrangement was aimed at Hungarian irredentism, providing protection on that front. The only outstanding issue, Bulgarian demands for Romania to return of territory gained after the Second Balkan War, was not considered likely to be anything more than an irritant for the foreseeable future given the relative strengths of the two nations. The judgement was that joining the New Entente would gain little but potentially embroil the country in a general war, not to mention enrage the fascist Iron Guard movement, who were already angry at the non-aggression pact with Soviets. For all that there were some positive outcomes, the Romanian government agreed to an exceptionally large arms deal with the New Entente, using French loans to buy Czechoslovakian armaments and Polish aircraft. This deal, aside from improving Romanian-New Entente relations also bolstered the internal relations of the Entente, by indirectly fixing one of the long standing economics complaints; the lack of French investment in Czech and Polish domestic industry. Yugoslavia however was distracted by events elsewhere although, as we will see later, this did not prevent them from lending a sympathetic ear to the French delegation.
To round out central Europe we finish with Germany herself. On the surface the summer months weren't too bad for Germany, the Olympic Games were a popular success, the economy continued to grow and though the French still occupied the Rhineland the French ambassador had proposed talks to set a new permanent solution for the region. Behind the scenes however the government was in considerable trouble, the victories of Jessie Owens had enraged Hitler, the finance ministry was growing increasingly alarmed at the sums of MEFO bills issued to fund the rearmament and economic growth and the French offer of talks was seen as depressing proof that Paris held the advantage over them, particularly as the talks would be with the entire New Entente not just France. Despite this Hitler remained popular with the public, while the foreign failures had taken some of the lustre of his image there was still food in the shops and jobs to go to, important considerations for a population that had experienced so long when both had been scarce. It is also worth noting the efforts of Goebbels at the Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda which, rather than attempt to hide the truth of the Rhineland, presented the entire event as an evil French plot to crush innocent Germany and prevent her regaining her rightful place in the world. While successful in preventing a popular backlash at the failure it would create a rod for the German government's back, stirring up anti-French feeling and making re-occupying the Rhineland even more important. In contrast to the public the non-Nazi elements of the government were increasingly alarmed, believing Hitler was out of his depth on the world stage, the string of foreign failures the damning evidence. In such an environment success in Spain became even more important as did the need for a solid diplomatic success, a public demonstration of Germany regaining her standing on the continent. These two imperatives would shape the Reich's foreign policy, over-ruling almost all other concerns as her neighbours would soon discover.
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Ominous. Love the New Entente. Would love to see how that would have worked especially with the potential of many years' tech trading to come.
Vann
Vann
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Ooh, a Franco-Czech-Polish alliance. If there's anything you can count on more than France surrendering in a war, it's Poland being wiped out of existence for extended periods of time.
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What is it ... could it be .... an update?!
A lot to think about here. So the Entente is officially dead, France is gathering a new circle of central-European allies and Germany is starting to feel the squeeze. (Incidentally, what allies does Britain have - still just the Empire? And what is the international attitude of the new Italian government?)
Meaniwhile, I assume, the Spanish war continues, pitting (politically) France against Britain and Germany and Britain against Germany for control of the new Spanish government, should they succeed in setting it up...
What is Portugal's attitude to the events in Spain, by the way? Historicallly, they were right-wing and pro-British, so they might be on board.
No mention of Austria - is Anschluss an active issue or has it been shelved following the Rhineland incident? I'm not sure if the German response would be to try and push it through or to back off at least until the French Army goes home. If this goes bad as well, I can see a lot of people deciding that Der Fuhrer is just German for Il Duce.
A lot to think about here. So the Entente is officially dead, France is gathering a new circle of central-European allies and Germany is starting to feel the squeeze. (Incidentally, what allies does Britain have - still just the Empire? And what is the international attitude of the new Italian government?)
Meaniwhile, I assume, the Spanish war continues, pitting (politically) France against Britain and Germany and Britain against Germany for control of the new Spanish government, should they succeed in setting it up...
What is Portugal's attitude to the events in Spain, by the way? Historicallly, they were right-wing and pro-British, so they might be on board.
No mention of Austria - is Anschluss an active issue or has it been shelved following the Rhineland incident? I'm not sure if the German response would be to try and push it through or to back off at least until the French Army goes home. If this goes bad as well, I can see a lot of people deciding that Der Fuhrer is just German for Il Duce.
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This really complicates the situation. On one hand, Poland and Chechoslovakia can rest easier, knowing they have Germany surrounded. On the other hand, the entente powers can't reach eachother in case of war with other countries unless they get permission to march through Germany.
I bet Hitler is really feeling the pressure, and one may wonder if he'll ever be the threat he was in history. However, they still have numerous opportunities. A negotiated recovery of the Rhineland would not only bolster the audacity of the Germans, it would also give Hitler more reason to use political bluffs to further his ambition.
Spain's current conflict is clear propaganda fodder. There's a 2 to 1 chance German support will twart the Global Jewish Communist conspiracy as it spread to another extreme end of the continent. And a 1 in 3 chance fascism finds a way to claim Spain.
As I see it now, despite Mussolini's misgivings, after the trouncing by Britain they may open up to the suggestion of a shared border with Germany in exchange for guarantees of protection from further British or Entente attacks. Then Hitler would not only have his Anschluss, but an ally/puppet on his side.
I can't see the Sudetenland crisis getting out of hand though. It might on the contrary start a war with the entente, but even Hitler would have to back down in the face of an attack from all sides. I can't see any empty boasts of "peace in our time" coming from this.
That just leaves Memel and the Danzig corridor for expansion. Memel won't mean much. But Danzig would almost inevitably spark conflict. The difference will be that Britian has no obligation to help Poland, as they now have the Chechz and French. But they might make the mistake of thinking Germany would succumb. If Hitler convinces the Hungarians to take a shot at conquering Slovakia, if he Blitzkriegs Poland, enters Chechia from the flanks through Poland, Hungary and Austria, and gets the Italians to pressure France in the south-east, maybe even the south-west by the mere existance of Franco Spain, he could still recreate his success.
I bet Hitler is really feeling the pressure, and one may wonder if he'll ever be the threat he was in history. However, they still have numerous opportunities. A negotiated recovery of the Rhineland would not only bolster the audacity of the Germans, it would also give Hitler more reason to use political bluffs to further his ambition.
Spain's current conflict is clear propaganda fodder. There's a 2 to 1 chance German support will twart the Global Jewish Communist conspiracy as it spread to another extreme end of the continent. And a 1 in 3 chance fascism finds a way to claim Spain.
As I see it now, despite Mussolini's misgivings, after the trouncing by Britain they may open up to the suggestion of a shared border with Germany in exchange for guarantees of protection from further British or Entente attacks. Then Hitler would not only have his Anschluss, but an ally/puppet on his side.
I can't see the Sudetenland crisis getting out of hand though. It might on the contrary start a war with the entente, but even Hitler would have to back down in the face of an attack from all sides. I can't see any empty boasts of "peace in our time" coming from this.
That just leaves Memel and the Danzig corridor for expansion. Memel won't mean much. But Danzig would almost inevitably spark conflict. The difference will be that Britian has no obligation to help Poland, as they now have the Chechz and French. But they might make the mistake of thinking Germany would succumb. If Hitler convinces the Hungarians to take a shot at conquering Slovakia, if he Blitzkriegs Poland, enters Chechia from the flanks through Poland, Hungary and Austria, and gets the Italians to pressure France in the south-east, maybe even the south-west by the mere existance of Franco Spain, he could still recreate his success.
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Extremely intriguing update Pip!
It will be interesting to see how, when things unfold going forward, who will be perceived as the aggressor. With France creating a scenario where Germans can rightly feel like they are going to be squeezed out of existence as this new French foreign policy seems to suggest would be their aim, will the world see the root cause of future conflict as clearly as in OTL. Great set up. I eagerly await the next installment.
It will be interesting to see how, when things unfold going forward, who will be perceived as the aggressor. With France creating a scenario where Germans can rightly feel like they are going to be squeezed out of existence as this new French foreign policy seems to suggest would be their aim, will the world see the root cause of future conflict as clearly as in OTL. Great set up. I eagerly await the next installment.
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I think the 7 million dead jews will speak for themselves eventually.
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Very interesting events indeed, Italy although hardly critically important, is an interesting wild card in this shifting Europe- perhaps they'll crawl to France's New Entente? Perhaps join Germany in an alliance of bitter, isolated states, or perhaps they'll become this TL's Spain, a "nation in being" so to speak, being courted by all sides but preferring to look inward.
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Wow,an update. Excellent. My holidays have started well. I feel sorry for Europe - they are living in"Interesting times"
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Vann the Red - Alarmingly that was the French AIs own idea. That said the three nations are very complimentary and all have a stake in seeing Germany kept 'in her place'. Czech factories churning out French tank designs to arm Polish divisions can only benefit all parties.
Inkana - Those two statements are good axioms of European history.
merrick - Cheeky bugger! Britain and the Commonwealth stand alone, whether that remains the case is probably up in the air, there's enough internal issues to deal in the short term. Long term there are good arguments against definite continental entanglement.
Italy and Austria are covered in the next 'Southern Europe' update, I've lumped Austria in the south as her summer is intertwined with Italy. Rest assured anschluss has not been forgotten.
Portugal and Spain turn up in 'Western Europe' update after next. Probably, I can't plan that far ahead reliably. It's more than possible Southern Europe will turn into two updates, depends on what I see happening there.
C&D - The French fleet will be key, without the need for a strong Mediterranean Fleet the Atlantic can be strengthened. Now I think about it a French Baltic Squadron, based in Gdansk perhaps, could be one outcome. Not sure on actual plausibility but it would seriously annoy Germany and show France's commitment to Eastern Europe so it's got to be possible. Thoughts anyone? A word from AF in particular.
While I like the ambition of Germany's plan Italy has quite different plans, while defeated at sea and losing her colonies most of the army never engaged the enemy (both narratively and in game). While her naval power is crushed she retains a considerable army that is untested, the elite armoured divisions didn't make it to North Africa. That said economically things are quite, quite different.
Bafflegab - Germany is indeed being hemmed in. Like a caged and cornered animal she has two option. 1. Submission, 2. Lashing out. I think we can all agree 1. is very unlikely so that only leaves the question who to lash out at....
Dr. Gonzo - A quick quote from the first line of the next update;
As I said above I see Italy in a not good, but not horrendous situation. From my understanding of Il Duce he'd either completely collapse mentally or try and ignore the truth, refuse to learn any lessons or humility and continue with ill-thought out bombastic dreams of grandure. As Italy proper was never invaded and most of the army is still intact I think the second option is more likely (plus the game through up a well timed event that I couldn't resist writing in).
Lord Strange - What spiffing timing on both our parts. Lucky bugger having such long holidays though.
Inkana - Those two statements are good axioms of European history.
merrick - Cheeky bugger! Britain and the Commonwealth stand alone, whether that remains the case is probably up in the air, there's enough internal issues to deal in the short term. Long term there are good arguments against definite continental entanglement.
Italy and Austria are covered in the next 'Southern Europe' update, I've lumped Austria in the south as her summer is intertwined with Italy. Rest assured anschluss has not been forgotten.
Portugal and Spain turn up in 'Western Europe' update after next. Probably, I can't plan that far ahead reliably. It's more than possible Southern Europe will turn into two updates, depends on what I see happening there.
C&D - The French fleet will be key, without the need for a strong Mediterranean Fleet the Atlantic can be strengthened. Now I think about it a French Baltic Squadron, based in Gdansk perhaps, could be one outcome. Not sure on actual plausibility but it would seriously annoy Germany and show France's commitment to Eastern Europe so it's got to be possible. Thoughts anyone? A word from AF in particular.
While I like the ambition of Germany's plan Italy has quite different plans, while defeated at sea and losing her colonies most of the army never engaged the enemy (both narratively and in game). While her naval power is crushed she retains a considerable army that is untested, the elite armoured divisions didn't make it to North Africa. That said economically things are quite, quite different.
Bafflegab - Germany is indeed being hemmed in. Like a caged and cornered animal she has two option. 1. Submission, 2. Lashing out. I think we can all agree 1. is very unlikely so that only leaves the question who to lash out at....
Dr. Gonzo - A quick quote from the first line of the next update;
As I said above I see Italy in a not good, but not horrendous situation. From my understanding of Il Duce he'd either completely collapse mentally or try and ignore the truth, refuse to learn any lessons or humility and continue with ill-thought out bombastic dreams of grandure. As Italy proper was never invaded and most of the army is still intact I think the second option is more likely (plus the game through up a well timed event that I couldn't resist writing in).
Lord Strange - What spiffing timing on both our parts. Lucky bugger having such long holidays though.
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