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Ok, the more I think about the more I think Audren took a risk for nothing. You guys only needed to sabotage 1 more and you were the least suspect. If you would have told the truth about me being resistance you would be guaranteed a place on the team. I for one would've rejected any team without you on it and you threw it away for basically nothing. This way you've just outed yourself (to me at least).

Its an uphill battle to convince resistance members I admit, but I'm not Ironhide. So for starters, if I was a spy, why would I ask for that card and give it to Audren? You could argue to sow doubt, but why against the most cleared player? It doesn't make sense.

@PC: yes that could be a case to clear Ironhead, but I'm not counting willing to bet on it. Are you?
 
Ok, the more I think about the more I think Audren took a risk for nothing. You guys only needed to sabotage 1 more and you were the least suspect. If you would have told the truth about me being resistance you would be guaranteed a place on the team. I for one would've rejected any team without you on it and you threw it away for basically nothing. This way you've just outed yourself (to me at least).

Its an uphill battle to convince resistance members I admit, but I'm not Ironhide. So for starters, if I was a spy, why would I ask for that card and give it to Audren? You could argue to sow doubt, but why against the most cleared player? It doesn't make sense.

@PC: yes that could be a case to clear Ironhead, but I'm not counting willing to bet on it. Are you?

You're precisely right. If I was a spy, I'd have nothing to gain and everything to lose by naming you as a spy. I'd be exposing myself to you and sowing doubt within everyone else, when I could've just said you were Resistance and nobody would bat an eye. Why would I throw that trust away now, unless I was Resistance and you were a spy?
 
You're precisely right. If I was a spy, I'd have nothing to gain and everything to lose by naming you as a spy. I'd be exposing myself to you and sowing doubt within everyone else, when I could've just said you were Resistance and nobody would bat an eye. Why would I throw that trust away now, unless I was Resistance and you were a spy?

No idea. You tell me. If not now, then after the game. My bet would be overconfidence though. It's not a bad tactic if they believe you, it's a risk it wasn't worth taking, imho. We'll discuss after the game.

Anyway I'm hoping any resistance with more than a single braincell will see how it fits together. You give Falc and Ironhead the cards and Falc conveniently scans you resistance. It ads up. The last mission either means it's Ironhead thats the last spy who claimed you didn't sabotage or DbW and Ironhead indeed did scan you clean.

Even if I don't manage to convince the resistance members I will earn great joy in calling them stupid noobs in the upcoming games. So theres that going for me at least.
 
You're precisely right. If I was a spy, I'd have nothing to gain and everything to lose by naming you as a spy. I'd be exposing myself to you and sowing doubt within everyone else, when I could've just said you were Resistance and nobody would bat an eye. Why would I throw that trust away now, unless I was Resistance and you were a spy?

Yeah, I'm sorry, Daffius, but I'm just gonna have to trust Audren here. I know you would too in my place.

No Confidence to Audren.
ITS is completely useless now
Give ITS to Daffius

Propose a team of:

Panzer
Audren
Jacksonian
Falc
Aedan

I think the spy team is Daffius(because Audren outed him), DbW(because assuming Audren and Jack are clear only he could've sabotaged the last mission), Ironhide(For play that makes little sense as a goodie) and Ironhead(because it's him or falc and him or aedan and there's only one spy left)
 
Also your proposal doesn't make sense if you believe Ironhide is a baddie! Here is why:

You know that either Ironhead or Falc is a spy.
You know that either myself or Audren is spy.
If you think Ironhide is spy you should have gone with yourself, avatar, Aedan, DbW, Jackson to ensure there is a maximum of one spy in the team. Why take the risk?

Eh, I'm putting more effort into this than ot deserves. Daffius out for today.
 
Also your proposal doesn't make sense if you believe Ironhide is a baddie! Here is why:

You know that either Ironhead or Falc is a spy.
You know that either myself or Audren is spy.
If you think Ironhide is spy you should have gone with yourself, avatar, Aedan, DbW, Jackson to ensure there is a maximum of one spy in the team. Why take the risk?

Eh, I'm putting more effort into this than ot deserves. Daffius out for today.

I don't care about "minimizing the risk for double sabotages". We're going to need a clear team for the 5th round, and we're not going to gain any info till then. We're almost certainly going to send the same team on both. If there's one spy on then what's the point of delaying the inevitable?
 
I don't care about "minimizing the risk for double sabotages". We're going to need a clear team for the 5th round, and we're not going to gain any info till then. We're almost certainly going to send the same team on both. If there's one spy on then what's the point of delaying the inevitable?

Because it would confirm there are 3 spies amongst Ironhead, Ironhide, Audren, Falc, Daffius. I don't get your delaying the inevitable comment. Every bit of information helps, this is insta loose (assuming you're resistance), that at least would give an extra day and some confirmation to think about.

Damn I really shouldn't check back in... Ought to tell you something about how much I care.
 
What we know:

Ironhead claims Jacksonian Missionary is resistance. Thus if Jacksonian is a spy, so is Ironhead, but the reverse is not necessarily true.

Falc claims Audren is resistance. Thus if Audren is a spy, so is Falc, but the reverse is not necessarily true.

At least one of Ironhead, Jacksonian, Audren, and Falc is a spy. Combined with above, we know at least one of Ironhead and Falc must be a spy.

At least one of Audren, Jacksonian, Deathbywombat, and Panzer is a spy. Ironhead claims Audren did not sabotage, so either A) Audren is resistance and Ironhead is telling the truth, B) Audren is a spy and Ironhead is lying, meaning he's a spy as well, or C)Audren is a spy and Ironhead is telling the truth, meaning there's another spy on the team. Both A and C lead us to the conclusion that at least one of Jacksonian, Deathbywombat, and Panzer is a spy.

Audren claims Daffius is a spy, so at least one of them is a spy.

What does this mean?

I'm going to run with two possibilities here, one where Audren is a spy, and the other where he is resistance. Having been on every team, and having three claim interactions with other players, he is the lynchpin of this game.

If we assume Audren is a spy, then first we know Falc is also a spy. This explains the first sabotaged team, but the second becomes troublesome. Either Audren sabotaged it, and thus we know Ironhead is lying and his spymate, or Audren did not sabotage it and there was another spy on the team. For Jacksonian to be a spy in this scenario, Ironhead would have to be one too, and I find the likelihood of all the spies checking each other day 1 to be implausible, so I'll assume he's resistance in this scenario. Thus if we assume Spy Audren did not sabotage, his spymate would have to be Deathbywombat or Panzer. Mission 1 Audren gave Panzer Take Responsibility, and on Mission 2 Deathbywombat rejected the sabotaged mission. I'm thus more inclined to say Panzer fits better as a potential spymate for Spy Audren. So the spy team with assuming Audren as a spy would be Audren-Falc-Ironhead-Unknown or Audren-Falc-Panzer-Unknown. However there's one thing that bothers me here. Daffius, AvatarofKhaine, Ironhead, and Panzer all changed from rejecting my team to approving Deathbywombat's team, with the only change being taking me out for Panzer. Because of this, I am more inclined to believe that Panzer is a spy, and one of the other inexplicable switches is the final spy. Even though Audren is claiming Daffius is a spy, I don't think it is at all impossible for them to both be spies. In fact, assuming Panzer and audren are spymates, Daffius fits in perfectly. They've set up a situation where we'll inevitably trust one of them, so whatever happens mission 4, they'll have a spy on mission 5. Audren-Falc-Panzer-Daffius thus seems the most likely spy team if we assume Audren is resistance.

Actually I'm really unsure about this. If Audren was a spy and already on the team, then why would Panzer getting added to the team gain so many approvals? My objective reaction would be to say a spy was switched off to avoid a double sabotage, but I know I'm not a spy. My knee-jerk reaction has been to assume Panzer must be a spy for getting all those vote switches, without anything to indicate him as a likely resistance member. But if we're assuming Audren is a spy, that doesn't make sense. Why would Daffius, Avatar, and Ironhead switch like that? The former two have even admitted they didn't think it through right. Perhaps there is nothing there? I had been assuming Ironhide was merely a stupid resistance member, Lord knows we've had too many of those over the years, but his card distribution for mission three, and his proposal both look quite bad if we assume Audren is a spy. He give opinion maker to Panzer and Ironhead, which hurts them, and NC to Falc, who we know is a spy in this scenario. His proposal was rejected by everyone but himself. If he's a spy, then his team had at least three spies on the team, which the spies definitely wouldn't want. Would he have gone all out and put a fourth spy on the team (deathbywombat)? So rethinking it, perhaps the spy team if Audren is a spy is Audren-Falc-Ironhide-Deathbywombat. Really shaky on the last one, but it has to be one of him, Panzer, and Ironhead, and Ironhide hurt both of them by giving them Opinion makers. Though perhaps he didn't realize that? I think I'll get nowhere trying to work that out.

If we assume Audren is resistance on the other hand, we know Daffius is a spy. We thus also know that at least one of Ironhead and Falc is a spy, and that at least one of Jacksonian, DeathbyWombat, and Panzer is also a spy. In this scenario we know a spy was among those who switched their vote when Panzer was added to a team instead of me, so Panzer seems a likely spy. Since Ironhead also switched his vote, he seems more likely to be the spy between Falc and Ironhead. I want to say Avatar would be the last spy in this case, but that seems far too easy. Really not sure who'd be the last spy though. If Jacksonian or Deathbywombat were a spy, we're back at the scenario of "Why would switching me out for Panzer get so many switches" except this time we know a spy was in the switch. Ironhide's a possibility once again, but his distribution makes absolutely no sense in this case. Both Falc and Ironhead being spies seems unlikely. I really want to say Avatar is the spy here, but that's just too easy and convenient.

Perhaps Ironhead is resistance, and just for some reason switched with a spy when a spy got added to a team? Then Falc would be a spy instead, and Ironhide fits better as the last spy, though there are still problems. Daffius-Panzer-Falc-Ironhide?

Why do all my possibilities indicate Daffius and Panzer are actually on the same side? And that Panzer isn't on the same side as Audren? Am I giving too much weight to the votes that were switched when i was replaced with Panzer? Ugh, I feel like this has all been a waste. Whatever, I'm posting it anyways. Maybe I'll think more clearly later.
 
Aedan, I'd like to point out that you should never discount something because "it's too easy and convenient" because you must remember this is my first game of The Resistance both online and IRL*, so what seems too easy could be noob spy play.

At this point most people would trot out the classic and useless defence/lines of "I know I'm resistance so....", but as I had no cards used on me/used no cards that I know of I have no proof to back up this claim and at this critical/pivotal stage of the game for us, trusting me without any discernible proof would be sheer lunacy. As such I don't why Daffius "apparently" believes I should be on any team, I have made stupid plays and this could incriminate me, why on earth should PC put me on a team, at this stage I wouldn't even put myself on a team if we ever get far enough down for that to be a thing.

Also;

REJECT

This team relies too much on faith, and as such I have to reject to be more safe than sorry.


* I saw a IRL box of The Resistance, do you guys think it would be worth getting both to practise and play IRL, do any of you experience with the differences between the online and offline versions?
 
I agree with Avatar, this team relies way too much on faith. Unfortunately I really don't see any team that can be proposed that isn't faith based, unless cards are used to reveal people. For now,
Reject
 
I saw a IRL box of The Resistance, do you guys think it would be worth getting both to practise and play IRL, do any of you experience with the differences between the online and offline versions?

I have no IRL experience, but it's supposed to be a rather quick game. You'd never tell based on the forum version, but I fully expect there to be much less analysis and much more gut feelings.
 
Aedan, I'd like to point out that you should never discount something because "it's too easy and convenient" because you must remember this is my first game of The Resistance both online and IRL*, so what seems too easy could be noob spy play.

At this point most people would trot out the classic and useless defence/lines of "I know I'm resistance so....", but as I had no cards used on me/used no cards that I know of I have no proof to back up this claim and at this critical/pivotal stage of the game for us, trusting me without any discernible proof would be sheer lunacy. As such I don't why Daffius "apparently" believes I should be on any team, I have made stupid plays and this could incriminate me, why on earth should PC put me on a team, at this stage I wouldn't even put myself on a team if we ever get far enough down for that to be a thing.

Also;

REJECT

This team relies too much on faith, and as such I have to reject to be more safe than sorry.

Well what would *you* propose? (You're next on the list anyway)


* I saw a IRL box of The Resistance, do you guys think it would be worth getting both to practise and play IRL, do any of you experience with the differences between the online and offline versions?

I think Madchemist plays RL resistance. I personally have never tried it, but I can imagine a lot of things would play out very differently - far less maths and numbers analysis and far more gut feelings and behavior analysis. Here's what I imagine a real life resistance game might look like:


But still, if you think you could get enough people to play, it'd be worth it just for the fun it provides, and the basics should remain the same.
 
Also, I've won 83% of the games I've played by making reasonable assumptions. Resistance is far more analytical than werewolf, but you still can't work out everything with logic and numbers. Eventually you have to trust Occam's Razor - what else is there to go on?
 
For example, you're a wee bit unlikely to see a response as thought out as Aedan's in the RL version (unless I just play the game with boring people, which is rather quite possible. I also don't usually play with the cards).The Tabletop episode is a fairly representative view of how RL Resistance tends to go.
 
Aedan, I'd like to point out that you should never discount something because "it's too easy and convenient" because you must remember this is my first game of The Resistance both online and IRL*, so what seems too easy could be noob spy play.

After many games I know that if things line up near perfectly to show a potential spy team, 9 times out of 10 it's too good to be true. That the entire spy team revealed themselves by switching from rejecting to approving when Panzer was added to the team is simply wishful thinking. What's really throwing me for a loop is that you're saying I should be considering that as a possibility, in particular your position within it. I really have no idea what to make of that.
 
* I saw a IRL box of The Resistance, do you guys think it would be worth getting both to practise and play IRL, do any of you experience with the differences between the online and offline versions?

If you've got a large enough group of people willing to play, then yes, I absolutely recommend it. It's quite an entertaining game, and it will help you here as well, especially figuring out the logic you'll want to use whichever side you're on. Online play is quite a bit different from playing in person because you can work with things like facial expressions that you can't on a forum, but the tactics are more or less the same. I personally think the game is better in person, FWIW.

I have no IRL experience, but it's supposed to be a rather quick game. You'd never tell based on the forum version, but I fully expect there to be much less analysis and much more gut feelings.

You'd be surprised. It's supposed to take 20-ish minutes, but an experienced group of players can really drag it out. I played games in grad school that lasted over an hour.

I think Madchemist plays RL resistance. I personally have never tried it, but I can imagine a lot of things would play out very differently - far less maths and numbers analysis and far more gut feelings and behavior analysis.

Yes, except that I have to correct your tense there. Haven't played IRL since I got my masters degree, I'm afraid. :(

With the right group of people, you'll get the analysis just fine. You'll just also get the behavioral cues on top of all that.

Oh, and the Avalon variant of Resistance is great, if you find that anywhere (we have a couple previous games of that if you're unfamiliar with it). That's what my group wound up playing the vast majority of the time. We played so much that one of the guys in my lab wrote a script that sent a text message to every player assigning them their roles, just to speed things along.


But still, if you think you could get enough people to play, it'd be worth it just for the fun it provides, and the basics should remain the same.

Yep.

For example, you're a wee bit unlikely to see a response as thought out as Aedan's in the RL version (unless I just play the game with boring people, which is rather quite possible. I also don't usually play with the cards).The Tabletop episode is a fairly representative view of how RL Resistance tends to go.

You're not playing with the right kind of people for that, then. I've seen players who go through all logical possibilities and combine that with their gut feelings on all the other players, go around the table asking everyone else who they think the spy team is, and basically go nuts analyzing everything (although really, what else can you expect from a group of chemistry grad students?). Heck, I've been that player as often as not.