The Resistance Game IX: Avalon

[Falc]

To be perfectly honest, if this were the tabletop version, I would say that if Octa can find Merlin, the Resistance still wins but Merlin has to do the dishes or something out-game like that.

The rule is there to make sure Merlin plays it sneaky and not just cards-on-the-table, but I feel the punishment is too harsh, affects every Resistance player without them being able to affect it and also gives the Spies a last-minute shot at winning the game even if they don't deserve it.

We should be able to come up with something different.

 

[Falc]

Playing as Ysbaddaden is very odd. I was lucky to have got myself on a team and sabotaged, but after that it was fairly obvious I was a Spy to the Resistance and there wasn't much I could do after that, since I wasn't going on any more Missions and didn't know who the Spies were to get a team to wangle another failed mission.

You were crazy lucky that you picked a 3-spy team, got my backing because I knew at least 2 spies were in it and I expected two sabotages and only ended up with a single sabotage.

Imagine if all 3 of you sabotaged that mission?

 

[Cliges]

Spoiler

Well, consider it thus: by the rules, Spies win if Octa guesses correctly. If Resistance players want to count this as a victory for themselves by some other standard, I won't begrudge them. Or perhaps an Octa guessing right could be considered a draw (now, or in the future). But officially, it is a Spy victory this time.

The profanity laden PMs were kind of funny. Because no one can PM other players, everyone sent their angry and frustrated messages about dissatisfaction with the players on their faction to me.

 

[Falc]

The profanity laden PMs were kind of funny. Because no one can PM other players, everyone sent their angry and frustrated messages about dissatisfaction with the players on their faction to me.

I never complained about anyone, though I made a few guesses about the Spies.

 

[Cliges]

That is true. And Falc successfully identified Ysbadddaen almost immediately.

It would have been very different if there were more than one sabotage on mission 1. I assumed that there were going to be at least 2.

 

[randakar]

Well, what I was trying to do was to get you to keep quiet about it. Falc posted to confirm that I was essentially telling the truth, and that he believed me, but you and TNTkept saying Falc didn't believe me by quote-mining an earlier post of his, which forced him to make about 3 more posts telling everyone he trusted me, which neither of you seemed to read, because you didn't make any reply to those posts, which blew his cover even more.

Err, I'm pretty sure I never said that "Falc didn't believe you".
Also, I tend to not reply to things I agree with. Or simply have no opinion on.
As for Falc saying he trusted you .. there was a lot of noise in that part of the game. JPR was insisting you were a spy as well. And I didn't respond to that bit either.

Don't forget, I do *not* know what you are, and am operating with only a fraction of the information that the people with actual roles have. So what if Falc trusted you? Yes, he *might* be Merlin, but so many people claimed that at that point that amidst the storm of misinformation I simply decided to ignore the entire thing. In fact, I considered it better to *not* try and figure out who merlin is - the less I know the less I could leak to the spies.

So I ended up trying to do what I do normally: File all the claims in a big box labelled 'too many lies in here to count and sorting them out is too hard', and looked at the rest of the game instead.
A lot of stuff you said ended up in there, I can tell you that. Not everything - not by a long shot - but the simple fact that you went off on a lying binge means that sorting out the wheels within wheels just isn't worth the effort at some point.

Not that you weren't right to question me, I don't mean to point the finger. It's just that the way things turned out, everyone refusing to listen to anything I said, even whenever it made perfect logical sense, forced Merlin to basically have to publicly defend me.

Both of you seemed to be operating under the assumption that one person being loud means the rest of the players agree with him.
I can assure you, that is not necessarily the case.

I never called you a moron.

Idiot, then
You said something like "you've been wrong all game".. yeah, I tend to do that a lot

But yeah, with all the good guys somehow determined to not trust Marty and trust Citizen instead, I had to do something or the game was lost.

You could have been more subtle about it. But .. really, Marty brought that upon himself.

The rule is there to make sure Merlin plays it sneaky and not just cards-on-the-table, but I feel the punishment is too harsh, affects every Resistance player without them being able to affect it and also gives the Spies a last-minute shot at winning the game even if they don't deserve it.

We should be able to come up with something different.

That is not as simple as it seems, actually. I thought it might be an idea to have just Merlin lose and Octa win, but then the rest of the resistance has an incentive to figure out who Merlin is anyway.. and perceval can make him lose.

 

[jpr123]

Really the game was won/lost with that 3 spy team. Only 1 time in 10 would that come back with a single sabotage. That forced Falc to be more explicit and basically out himself.

Despite my moaning I rather enjoyed this version. Although I rather dislike how much of whether I win or lose is in other peoples hands. At least in regular resistance whether I'm a goody or baddie I have equal responsibility for ensuring a victory. In this version it was rather out of my hands, which was kind of frustrating. Not that I can really complain about resistance members playing badly or anything, I just wish I had been in a position to have more of an impact on the game.

Also this game doesn't count as an official Resistance game does it?! I don't want this to sully my great record in Resistance

Actually, WHY did you people keep hinting there was some deeper play there? Why dance around it constantly like that?
You guys were telling me I'm a bloody idiot for not understanding, while all this time YOU were the idiots for not shutting the hell up.. ;-)

Because Falc was so obvious about being Merlin I was rather worried that proper analysis could easily out him if the spies had missed it. What was I supposed to do? I had to get you to stop somehow.

 

[randakar]

Because Falc was so obvious about being Merlin I was rather worried that proper analysis could easily out him if the spies had missed it. What was I supposed to do? I had to get you to stop somehow.

I wasn't talking about that. What you were doing there - fine. But the dancing started much, much earlier.
And what made this damn hard was that Falc (and to a lesser extend, marty) was claiming the spies could be found through analysis - and that pretense had to be maintained somehow.
So I felt that if I could figure out who the spies are without relying on Merlin interfering our chances of actually winning would be a tad higher ;-)

I agree that that three spy team was what really caused the spy victory, though. A regular resistance game would probably also be lost to the spies at that point ;-)

 

[Cliges]

Really the game was won/lost with that 3 spy team. Only 1 time in 10 would that come back with a single sabotage. That forced Falc to be more explicit and basically out himself.

Despite my moaning I rather enjoyed this version. Although I rather dislike how much of whether I win or lose is in other peoples hands. At least in regular resistance whether I'm a goody or baddie I have equal responsibility for ensuring a victory. In this version it was rather out of my hands, which was kind of frustrating. Not that I can really complain about resistance members playing badly or anything, I just wish I had been in a position to have more of an impact on the game.

Also this game doesn't count as an official Resistance game does it?! I don't want this to sully my great record in Resistance



Because Falc was so obvious about being Merlin I was rather worried that proper analysis could easily out him if the spies had missed it. What was I supposed to do? I had to get you to stop somehow.

Well, I consider this a semi-official game. It was at least in part a test of if and how well a role-based game would work. This game, for whatever reason, moved faster than most. Interestingly, it went faster than the one when we had a daily deadline.

It also seemed this game had fewer rejected teams than in the past, though I'd have to check the records to confirm that. Did the roles have any bearing on that?

 

[tamius23]

I imagine the game moved faster because we had no plot cards to wait for.

 

[Cliges]

Odd again, because when I did the game with deadlines, part of the motivation was that it forced at least one team vote per day. That was faster than some of the previous games when it might take 2 or 3 days just to get a team approved or rejected.

 

[marty99]

I wasn't talking about that. What you were doing there - fine. But the dancing started much, much earlier.
And what made this damn hard was that Falc (and to a lesser extend, marty) was claiming the spies could be found through analysis - and that pretense had to be maintained somehow.
So I felt that if I could figure out who the spies are without relying on Merlin interfering our chances of actually winning would be a tad higher ;-)

I agree that that three spy team was what really caused the spy victory, though. A regular resistance game would probably also be lost to the spies at that point ;-)

the spies could be found b analysis. post mre when less drnk.

 

[Cliges]

How about you post when more drunk?

That would make for some interesting analysis.

 

[Trinitrotoluen]

The rule is there to make sure Merlin plays it sneaky and not just cards-on-the-table, but I feel the punishment is too harsh, affects every Resistance player without them being able to affect it and also gives the Spies a last-minute shot at winning the game even if they don't deserve it.

But without the rule what's to stop Merlin from ruining the game for everyone else right from the start? Such absurdly powerful roles need some sort of counter if we want to have an enjoyable game.

Half of the spy team not knowing each other certainly makes more interesting things (like an all-spy team in mission 1) than in regular Resistance possible.

 

[tamius23]

Game 10's up. (It's not an Avalon game.)

 

[marty99]

But without the rule what's to stop Merlin from ruining the game for everyone else right from the start? Such absurdly powerful roles need some sort of counter if we want to have an enjoyable game.

True, but since neither of these extremes seem palatable, we'll either have to find a middle ground, or consider changing/removing the nature of Merlin.


What does the pople think about a game where pms are allowed? I know there are issues, but I think if rules\could be rejigged so that prviate comunications don't wreck the game, it would add another dimension to it. It was like that with Micro.

 

[marty99]

How about you post when more drunk?

That would make for some interesting analysis.

I'm not sure if that was physically possible...but I've always wanted to play in a drunk Lite. Like if you could get everyone playing to be online for 4 hours say, have half hour deadlines, and everyone just be wasted. I think they tried it once years ago.

I would still type as much drunk though, just it would be even harder to read than usual.

 

[Trinitrotoluen]

What does the pople think about a game where pms are allowed? I know there are issues, but I think if rules\could be rejigged so that prviate comunications don't wreck the game, it would add another dimension to it. It was like that with Micro.

I don't like it as just with werewolf most of the action will start to take place behind the scenes and not in the game thread. I think that is one part of the Resistance that makes it a nicer game.

 

[marty99]

I don't like it as just with werewolf most of the action will start to take place behind the scenes and not in the game thread. I think that is one part of the Resistance that makes it a nicer game.

Maybe, but behind the scenes is cool sometimes. It wouldn't be as good for spectators, but if the players could make an agreement to take note of their pms, they could post them all after the game as AARs of sorts. Or, subscribing spectators could ask to be BCC'ed in any pms. We could make it work I think.
And there still would be thread action. Perhaps limit the usage of pms to a certain quantity or number of recipients a day. I don't know how it would turn out, but I'd be interested in trying it once, at least.