The same circular game, the progress like one of those German carousel clocks. With the spring about to break.
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At least Buckingham was able to talk some sense to York. If he be wise enough, then let Somerset hang himself at king last.
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A sense of the King becoming confused in that update, combine that with Buckingham's news and you have a worrying combination for the future. The King declining, the Court Faction growing in power, dark times. Slightly naive of York to ever expect Margaret to change, she will remain a cancer at the heart of the realm until she is removed. Alas I fear she will do quite catastrophic damage before that occurs, not least because she blames York for the crimes of others (and her own crimes) and is still holding a grudge about it.
To use a mildly anachronistic term there is an unstable powder keg feel to things, too many personal grudges, personal retinues and ex-soldiers looking for work. No doubt there is a mostly bloodless route through all this but the story title does quite heavily suggests the kegs will indeed explode violently. That said Cecily does seem clear eyed and competent, perhaps she will arrange a tragic accident to occur to the Queen while she is in residence and so avert disaster? I will not be holding me breath on that one!
To use a mildly anachronistic term there is an unstable powder keg feel to things, too many personal grudges, personal retinues and ex-soldiers looking for work. No doubt there is a mostly bloodless route through all this but the story title does quite heavily suggests the kegs will indeed explode violently. That said Cecily does seem clear eyed and competent, perhaps she will arrange a tragic accident to occur to the Queen while she is in residence and so avert disaster? I will not be holding me breath on that one!
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Fb-fb:
To all - The usual excellent comments and thank you! The next scene arrives tomorrow. And for those that may not have seen it, check out this post in the General Discussion area regarding a get together for those of us in the southern US in May of this year. All are invited if they live close enough or can make plans to travel. We'd love to see you!
Also, allow me to give a plug for the latest round of the ACAs hosted by @Nikolai ongoing now. As I always say, you need not vote for this work (though it is always appreciated) but please do vote. All your writAARs will definitely appreciate it!
It is indeed true that it is (and was) a back and forth thing. Those who have studied the WOTR know that it was not all out war for 30 years, but those that have not do sometimes think that once the spark was lit it went right into kill or be killed. Instead, it was much more of a slow progress towards the first clash as neither "side" really wanted to come to blows.
I may have been too on the nose with it, but as I've studied Humphrey Stafford, Duke of Buckingham he was very much of a peace negotiator rather than an agitator. The question is, how long will he be able to successfully do that?
I cannot really say too much for fear of spoiling things too much though those that know the history well will surely see what is coming. I will have more to say about it when we get there, but hopefully I am created a realistic path towards that eventuality. The next scene really is a part II of this previous one to open the chapter. It just got too long so I split it into two. It will fill in more blanks, to be sure.A sense of the King becoming confused in that update, combine that with Buckingham's news and you have a worrying combination for the future. The King declining, the Court Faction growing in power, dark times. Slightly naive of York to ever expect Margaret to change, she will remain a cancer at the heart of the realm until she is removed. Alas I fear she will do quite catastrophic damage before that occurs, not least because she blames York for the crimes of others (and her own crimes) and is still holding a grudge about it.
To use a mildly anachronistic term there is an unstable powder keg feel to things, too many personal grudges, personal retinues and ex-soldiers looking for work. No doubt there is a mostly bloodless route through all this but the story title does quite heavily suggests the kegs will indeed explode violently. That said Cecily does seem clear eyed and competent, perhaps she will arrange a tragic accident to occur to the Queen while she is in residence and so avert disaster? I will not be holding me breath on that one!
To all - The usual excellent comments and thank you! The next scene arrives tomorrow. And for those that may not have seen it, check out this post in the General Discussion area regarding a get together for those of us in the southern US in May of this year. All are invited if they live close enough or can make plans to travel. We'd love to see you!
Also, allow me to give a plug for the latest round of the ACAs hosted by @Nikolai ongoing now. As I always say, you need not vote for this work (though it is always appreciated) but please do vote. All your writAARs will definitely appreciate it!
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Ludlow Castle, November 1452
It was late and few were left to the great hall after the feast. The King and his party had praised Duchess Cecily for her planning and the many fine courses. All but Margaret of Anjou who simply sat quiet during it all shooting daggers with her eyes towards Richard. Henry took delight in engaging with Richard’s young daughters who had been trained rightly by their mother to show perfect etiquette. Yet he once more seemed to take an odd mood when baby Dickon was again presented near the end of the feast as the nurse was to put him to bed. Margaret saved him from further embarrassment though not because she meant to. She merely did not care to see the child and left the high table without any type of apology.
At this late hour, only Richard was left of his household and sat with the Duke of Buckingham and the King by the large hearth as they drank the last of the wine. Henry was mostly quiet as they discussed the goings on in France and Bordeaux, but Richard was more than curious and Buckingham was happy to inform him, “As usual the great Talbot has made amazing strides in a very short time. He arrived in August and has since cleared the French from Bordeaux and beyond.”
“Of course he would,” Richard attempted to be diplomatic, “The right man for the work...at last.”
Henry shifted uncomfortably to his seat, “It was a matter of timing, cousin. We simply could not spare Lord Talbot when he was securing our hold to Calais and Caux.”
“Then I would say...” Richard began to speak before giving an eye to Buckingham, “...I would say that it is fine that he is there to the now.”
“Indeed,” Henry gave nod after taking a sip of wine, “Our knowledge tells us that King Charles is gravely wounded in spirit if not in body. His kingdom is aflame, I’m afraid.”
“I shall spare no tear for the King of France, sire,” Richard answered with contempt, “For too long he has taken his advantage and it is high time to see that returned.”
Buckingham shook his head, “If only. Our Burgundian friends seem to find no wish to end the conflict even though they have gained nearly every objective they might desire. Large swathes in Normandy and northern France.”
“They do not hold the French King,” Richard suggested, “They would not press a punishing peace without such.”
“The entire business is a spider’s web, sir,” Buckingham answered, “The Burgundian Duke Philip is known to have recruited against his rival not only the Duc d’Orleans but so too Charles’ son Louis the Dauphine.”
Richard allowed a chortle, “Perhaps then it was good that we released Duke Charles from Pontefract. We may now know why Philip the Good wished it so.”
“We had hoped for a stronger alliance with Burgundy,” Henry suggested as he looked to the flames of the fire, “That was what I was told at the time.”
Buckingham followed, “Though it is striking odd as there has been much bad blood between Burgundy and Orleans.”
“I should think so,” Richard gave a firm nod, “It is said and loudly that Philip’s father John the Fearless had the Duke’s father Louis assassinated.”
Henry kept his gaze to the fire, “And then he found his.”
“Pardon, Your Grace?” Buckingham questioned.
The King looked to them both before turning back to the fire, “The bridge incident. Likely why Philip hates King Charles so very much.”
“Much bloodshed with these French,” Buckingham suggested as he looked to Richard with a raised brow, “Those of too much affinity may easily be swayed by the desire for power and what then ensues?”
“Too true, my Lord,” Henry replied before finishing his wine.
Richard narrowed his eyes but held his tongue for what he wanted to say and instead questioned, “So what of Talbot? Where does he go now?”
“He wishes to press,” Buckingham allowed, “Yet...he must wait for the moment.”
“Wait?” York showed a wide eye, “My God...the French could not be weaker! I should see him to Paris in a fortnight to join in the siege with the Burgundians.”
Henry stood for a moment and looked around without saying a word. He took a step towards the fire and then retreated back to his chair. Both Dukes watched him and Richard questioned, “Your Grace? Do you require more wine?”
“More wine?” the King considered and then gave nod, “If you have it.”
“I am certain that it may be procured,” Richard replied as he went to fetch a steward. He returned with a fresh pitcher and poured for the King, “I fear that my Lady may question our intake this night.”
Henry offered a smile to him, “She is very gracious.”
“She is indeed, sire...yet this issue with Talbot...” Richard attempted to ask but Henry responded quickly.
“We have not the funding at the now. It is too precious.”
It took every fiber of Richard’s being to hold back from what he desired to say. Instead, he stood and went to warm his hands to the fire. After a moment, he suggested over his shoulder, “I would gladly offer my support if that be what it takes.”
Buckingham smiled, “That is very generous, my Lord.”
The King however waved a hand, “Not at this time. Things are...uncertain. Our lives our complicated, are they not? And I am certain that my Lady wife is fearful for her father.”
“She is the Queen of England, sire,” Richard turned to persist, “Not of France. No longer. It is time that she accepted this.”
Henry did not return his gaze, “She has been made to accept much. As you may see...she takes not well to it.”
“I know not what might be so distasteful to her,” Richard answered quickly, “Plenty of riches...a fine palace to Greenwich...and her favorite restored to her.”
“My Lord...” Buckingham attempted to intercede but Henry finally looked to York.
“It would always be Somerset with you, eh? Be not so ruthless, cousin.”
Richard held firm, “I was promised.”
“And so here you are,” the King waved a hand to the great hall, “Prideful still and with your beautiful family. A promise fulfilled and God will find you as penitent as you are to me I am certain.”
“Sire...” Richard again tried to persist but Henry stood to answer him.
“Speak no more on it, cousin. For I come here with another matter. An important one and one you may well wish to find for yourself.”
Richard skewed a brow, “More important than matters in France, sire?”
“His Grace speaks of the young lady Beaufort, my Lord,” Buckingham replied, “Somerset’s niece Margaret.”
“I am uncertain what the young girl has to do with me or mine,” Richard questioned them both.
Henry smiled, “I wish to offer you a gift, cousin.”
“A gift?” York replied with confusion.
“Indeed...a fine reward for your loyalty,” the King answered as he sat down once more, “The young Margaret is not so very far in age from your son. Which was it again? Edward or Edmund?”
Richard shook his head unknowing of this purpose, “Edward is the eldest at near to eleven.”
“Very good,” Henry gave nod, “As is the young lady.”
“Your Grace...” York replied as he began to understand what was being offered, “...if you are suggesting a match, I should think it quite difficult. Is not the young lady already married?”
Buckingham spoke up, “There in lies the difficulty, my Lord. While given papal dispensation due to consanguinity, His Grace feels it now...untoward.”
“Might it be due to the one that she is matched with?” Richard almost allowed a laugh but held back.
Henry answered, “I wish to cleanse the court of all influence of Suffolk, sir. I know not...why...I agreed to such a ridiculous proposal in the first place.”
“While I appreciate that...finally...” Richard tried to play the diplomat, “...it be not his son’s fault for his perfidious nature. And the man is dead. The son is...the son.”
“I wish it not,” Henry replied without a beat, “I have already begun action to have that marriage dissolved. It shall be annulled as if it never occurred. They have not...consummated...and so...”
Richard again allowed a slight laugh, “I should hope not. If she is close in age to my Ned, she is naught but ten or eleven. And John de la Pole is...what? I believe the same age, is that not correct?”
“That is accurate, my Lord,” Buckingham allowed, “Yet His Grace would wish a higher standing for his this young ward for he does value his Beaufort cousins.”
“How well I know,” Richard replied.
Henry looked to him with a plea to his eye, “Cousin, it is a thing done with or without you. Yet we come here...I come here...to offer you chance to join us even more tightly. To place this...unfortunate business...fully to the past. And more...to produce amity between you and the Lord of Somerset for he cares deeply for his niece.”
“Allow me to fully understand, sire,” Richard stood as tall as he might and questioned the King, “You are suggesting a match made between my son Edward and the young lady Beaufort, is that correct? The child of John Beaufort? A man that all know took his own life to avoid his shame and his poor effort on your own part? Is that what I am to understand?”
“You said yourself just now,” Henry replied with a nod, “The sins of the parent should not travel to the child.”
“Sire...Your Grace...” Richard could hardly believe his hearing, “...I have attempted for some time now an effort such that you would officially proclaim mine own as your heir for you do lack issue and this creates...shall we say a tension. I am more reinforced in my mind towards this matter because it comes to my ear that you have often considered the Lord of Somerset the same in that regard. However, I know not how that might be. Without wishing to put too fine a point on it...the Beauforts are a bastard line. Barred from the throne by your own grandfather’s demand.”
Henry furrowed his brow, “Yet with royal blood still.”
“Then allow me to politely decline,” Richard answered with firmness, “For much the same reasons as required the papal dispensation the first time. The lady Beaufort’s grandfather was brother to my son Edward’s grandmother Joan Beaufort who you surely know married into the Neville clan and allowed me my beautiful wife. That is as much Beaufort as I care for. But I thank you for the consideration.”
“My Lord...” Buckingham tried to intercede but Henry stopped him once more.
“You would spit in my face?” Henry questioned as he stood to Richard, “You would take the freedom allowed to you from my one hand and slap the other one down as I try to give further? You would hold yourself as a paragon and question mine own? My decisions? Mine own wife?”
Richard held for a beat before giving reply, “Such that she is...sire.”
“Your Grace...my Lord of York...let us not go too far,” Buckingham again tried to play at peace.
The King stood taller than York and began to fume, “You would dare call into question my lack of issue? I wonder if that be all that you wish. A lifetime all to yourself and none for me! I am to merely bow at your presence though I be King and you...not King! Should I wish to treat my wife, that is none of your concern! If I wish to hold up Somerset then I shall for that is my prerogative! And if I should wish to jump in my natural state into the Thames when it is frozen cold, then I will! Do you know why? Because I am the bloody King!”
“That is not at question,” Richard answered coolly.
“Then what is the damnable question?!” Henry came near to shouting.
Richard moved to pour himself another cup of wine. He looked first to Buckingham and then to the King before giving a calm reply, “There be no question at the now. I think you right unsettled, Your Grace. It is understandable given your great concerns. Yet I must once more decline the surely well intended offer. I think not that my Lady wife would agree to it and so I must demure. We have all held a long night and so I think it time for us all to find our beds. Please enjoy your time to here. We remain most honored.”
The Duke of York did not wait for reply as he offered a slim bow and then retired for the night. The King would not hear his true words but his wife surely would. It was yet another cut and Richard already knew that it would fester as each and every one prior had done.
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Ah, possibly worried that the York household is plentiful, strong and rich whilst his own stock is all dried up and barren, or so frosty as to be untouchable.
A very good idea, considering how wealthy the Dukes are going to become, and their vital role in serving as a buffer between the HRE and France.
This business with Henry's 'peace offer' seems a deliberate attempt to sideline the closest heir to the throne aside from his own nonexistent issue. I sense Margery's hand in this, and therefore view it with great suspicion. At this point, whilst Henry has my sympathies, I am very much in the Yorkist camp. The south needs to be...cleansed, just a little.
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A sad read, the malevolent spirit of Margaret hovering over it and poisoning the relationship despite Richard making frankly heroic efforts to make it work. Henry is so close to realising his wife is an evil traitor, but alas I fear he will decline further before he has a chance to realise the truth.
As has been said, the terrible marriage plan has Margarets paws all over it. Doubtless she knew it would be unacceptable which is why she bullied Henry into making the offer, because even he must realise the offer is offensive. Strangely I find myself somewhat sympathetic to Buckingham, not that much obviously as he's picked his side and must deal with the consequences, but it is one thing to be in the faction around an easily led King, quite another to find that King is but a puppet for a Queen who's only loyalties are France, herself and whoever she is currently trying to bed.
As has been said, the terrible marriage plan has Margarets paws all over it. Doubtless she knew it would be unacceptable which is why she bullied Henry into making the offer, because even he must realise the offer is offensive. Strangely I find myself somewhat sympathetic to Buckingham, not that much obviously as he's picked his side and must deal with the consequences, but it is one thing to be in the faction around an easily led King, quite another to find that King is but a puppet for a Queen who's only loyalties are France, herself and whoever she is currently trying to bed.
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The Queen has the potential to be a tragic figure, who is loyal to a kingdom that may very well, in game, cease to exist within the century (EUIV is merciless when it comes to early french collapses). However, she is exceedingly unlikable, fantastically anti-English, petty, vindictive and, in the worst case, sinfully stupid. Thus far, she has irritated or ostracized everyone on either side of the political divide aside from Somerset, whom most also dislike/hate.
No matter what else happens, it is only a matter of time before she is brought to heel by someone.
I'm also seriously starting to contemplate switching sides and backing the Yorkists, because then at least England will have the strongest and wealthiest noble line and family in power, and an untouchable power base in the north to work with. They are capable and perfectly willing to go to war with the southern lords and with France to get their kingdom back up to where it was at the height of the 100 years war, and even better than that.
That being said, I am still intrigued by an England which does not really lose the 100 years war (in that they are not not kicked out of Europe, and France ceases to exist) nor have a War of the Roses situation happen, just a very uneasy peace. This is good news for the common folk, who will get rich and happy in the peacetime, and either very good news or very bad news for Scotland, Wales and Ireland (England is either going to spend that time doing nothing, or expand into them as English lords try to boost their own land and power).
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But of course the issue is that France can’t just suddenly cease existing as a de jure entity. Even collapsing de facto is a shock to Europe that makes the loss of Constantinople look minuscule in comparison. You cannot just say the single-most important kingdom in the whole of Christendom is no more and that a large chunk of Western Europe is now anarchic wasteland.
Someone needs to be crowned King of France, and with Charles VII having clearly lost all legitimacy and divine favor (I don’t know how you explain this in universe - maybe the wrath of God for hanging Joan of Arc out to die?), there’s three candidates: King Henry, Duke Charles of Burgundy, and Duke Charles of Orleans (who we can effectively ignore as right now he’s a Burgundian pawn). Obviously Henry’s got a stronger claim, but Charles has control of the ground, so likely Charles… except EUIV has been all but hard-coded at this point for the OTL crisis of the Burgundian Succession to fire, which means Charles might not be as appetizing a candidate, and there’s the issue of who the hell Marie of Burgundy marries and by extension inherits their claims (I’ve literally seen Oldenburg get it in one particularly cursed playthrough).
If Richard, Henry, Margaret, and Somerset could all just stop sniping at each other long enough, they could literally crown Henry and Margaret as king and queen of France at Rheims inside two years… but that requires them to not be the people they are.
I wonder if there’s any mileage though in convincing Margaret to support her husband’s claim to France so that her father and uncle get to keep some ducal lands and titles in the Anglo-French empire rather than lose everything to the conquering Burgundians…
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Oh goody! Chance for some great fb-fb:
I'll speak on Burgundy below also so read on.
As to Margaret, there is indeed reason she spoke all of two words in the entire two updates. While she went on progress with the King, she and he are still not speaking. You may assume she used her influence with Somerset and others to push for it because it is exactly the kind of thing that would press at Richard. Good catch!
There was an alternate scene in my head where she and Cecily went at it out in the open, but I decided Cecily would never stoop so low. She has more regard for etiquette and place.
And I'm pleased that you've picked up the fact - the 100 Years War is not yet over. England has not lost entirely. It's a slight change that some might suggest would have kept the WOTR from happening as that was a prime motivator for many, but I think the seeds were already planted. Any little thing could spark that fire and we're still not too far off from that given all that is happening.
As to France and Burgundy...
(Also, as it regards Charles of Burgundy, he remains unmarried at this date after his first wife died without issue. If history holds, he would not remarry until 1454.)
See below for more on the France/Burgundy dynamic.
To all - Some great looks already from these two scenes to start this chapter. I'd hoped for such. I originally had the map for the screen to start the chapter, but we weren't there yet. I wanted it to begin with Henry seeing all of Richard's children and as mentioned, see that the House of York is strong and fertile. That was important. Then we jump to these more pressing issues:
France/Burgundy - You cannot really tell from the map, but when Talbot finally got down to Bordeaux, he did a number in southern France. Not only did he fight off whatever French force he found, but he went on to take Toulouse, Perigord, Montpellier and Carcassonne. Not to mention already holding Caux, it would have been great to make peace then. We were at about 14% war score. But it did not fit the narrative. Not the way Henry "fights" a war. Also, I was waiting for Burgundy to make peace. And waiting...and waiting...and waiting. I guess they were holding out for Paris. More on that later, but really there was not much Talbot could do after his initial success. You can see that almost all of France and allies are taken. I pretty much screwed them when I went in and DoWd from their side.
BUT...this situation does perfectly help the narrative so I am rolling with it. As suggested...England is not out of the 100 Yrs War game. Which offers many possibilities. I will go ahead and say that I do not allow France to be totally wiped out. That would not fit with what I want to do here. So, as I have before, I will go into the coding and get things "where they need to be" as it were so we continue with the story I want to tell.
Edward of York and Margaret Beaufort - Not too much mentioned on this possibility as it is easy to see the perfidy of Margaret of Anjou (and I do not mind it all) but the idea of it intrigued me. As far as I know from OTL, no such suggestion was ever made and as has been suggested by both reader and Richard himself, the idea of it holds no promise or betterment for York. But...BUT...it is clear that Henry was already considering her matched to someone other than her already intended or already married partner at that time. In our history, Margaret Beaufort never even acknowledged that such a thing existed. But she and John de la Pole (Suffolk's son) were matched and married at a very young age.
We cannot know if Henry had this particular consideration but from my reading, he intended her for someone else and that someone was of course, Edmund Tudor. What is historical here is that Henry went on progress at this time and visited York at Ludlow. What did they talk about? Possibly this idea? When it was denied, then maybe he moved to plan B? It's possible. Maybe not probable, but certainly possible whether it was his idea or some other. I doubt Somerset would have countenanced that as he hated Richard, but Henry did work on his own sometimes.
Also...would it really be the worst match in the world? Despite the close kinship as I mentioned in the scene (which of course never stopped anyone in the middle ages) that match would bring these two rival factions together. As long as Henry lacks an heir (which both York and Somerset desired to be named) to bring them together would have gone a long way to possibly averting the crises coming. As we well know from OTL, it was eventually done. It was just Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York...the children of these two figures. It was an interesting "what if" and so I could not help suggest it even though it would have never happened.
Anyway...some awesome looks and I'd love to see more. The next scene arrives in two days so plenty of time. Thanks so much for reading and giving comment!
I will touch on the "marriage" offer below, but you hit on exactly where I was going with Henry's oddness about baby Richard. That has to be a hard pill to swallow with what he's already gone through and is still going through.
I'll speak on Burgundy below also so read on.
I'm pleased that Richard came off that way because as much as I had him holding back, it was all I could do not to refute as well. It was not easy for either of us.
As to Margaret, there is indeed reason she spoke all of two words in the entire two updates. While she went on progress with the King, she and he are still not speaking. You may assume she used her influence with Somerset and others to push for it because it is exactly the kind of thing that would press at Richard. Good catch!
There was an alternate scene in my head where she and Cecily went at it out in the open, but I decided Cecily would never stoop so low. She has more regard for etiquette and place.
Richard of York certainly accepts you as liegeman! He needs all the help he can get.
And I'm pleased that you've picked up the fact - the 100 Years War is not yet over. England has not lost entirely. It's a slight change that some might suggest would have kept the WOTR from happening as that was a prime motivator for many, but I think the seeds were already planted. Any little thing could spark that fire and we're still not too far off from that given all that is happening.
As to France and Burgundy...
On a gameplay level, much of that is true (as is what TBC says above about Burgundy being a nice buffer between what is left of France and the HRE.) I will say that at this date, Charles (who will become the Bold) is still just Count. Philip the Good is still alive and running this particular show. So just in terms of who might possibly inherit, it is Philip with that particular claim. And do not forget the Dauphine Louis. He is still a player in the French game. That said, it would be prudent for Margaret to see to her advantage as a possible Queen of England AND France. But that would require her to be forward thinking. Thus far, we've not seen that too much. She is reactionary. It is her nature.
(Also, as it regards Charles of Burgundy, he remains unmarried at this date after his first wife died without issue. If history holds, he would not remarry until 1454.)
See below for more on the France/Burgundy dynamic.
To all - Some great looks already from these two scenes to start this chapter. I'd hoped for such. I originally had the map for the screen to start the chapter, but we weren't there yet. I wanted it to begin with Henry seeing all of Richard's children and as mentioned, see that the House of York is strong and fertile. That was important. Then we jump to these more pressing issues:
France/Burgundy - You cannot really tell from the map, but when Talbot finally got down to Bordeaux, he did a number in southern France. Not only did he fight off whatever French force he found, but he went on to take Toulouse, Perigord, Montpellier and Carcassonne. Not to mention already holding Caux, it would have been great to make peace then. We were at about 14% war score. But it did not fit the narrative. Not the way Henry "fights" a war. Also, I was waiting for Burgundy to make peace. And waiting...and waiting...and waiting. I guess they were holding out for Paris. More on that later, but really there was not much Talbot could do after his initial success. You can see that almost all of France and allies are taken. I pretty much screwed them when I went in and DoWd from their side.
BUT...this situation does perfectly help the narrative so I am rolling with it. As suggested...England is not out of the 100 Yrs War game. Which offers many possibilities. I will go ahead and say that I do not allow France to be totally wiped out. That would not fit with what I want to do here. So, as I have before, I will go into the coding and get things "where they need to be" as it were so we continue with the story I want to tell.
Edward of York and Margaret Beaufort - Not too much mentioned on this possibility as it is easy to see the perfidy of Margaret of Anjou (and I do not mind it all) but the idea of it intrigued me. As far as I know from OTL, no such suggestion was ever made and as has been suggested by both reader and Richard himself, the idea of it holds no promise or betterment for York. But...BUT...it is clear that Henry was already considering her matched to someone other than her already intended or already married partner at that time. In our history, Margaret Beaufort never even acknowledged that such a thing existed. But she and John de la Pole (Suffolk's son) were matched and married at a very young age.
We cannot know if Henry had this particular consideration but from my reading, he intended her for someone else and that someone was of course, Edmund Tudor. What is historical here is that Henry went on progress at this time and visited York at Ludlow. What did they talk about? Possibly this idea? When it was denied, then maybe he moved to plan B? It's possible. Maybe not probable, but certainly possible whether it was his idea or some other. I doubt Somerset would have countenanced that as he hated Richard, but Henry did work on his own sometimes.
Also...would it really be the worst match in the world? Despite the close kinship as I mentioned in the scene (which of course never stopped anyone in the middle ages) that match would bring these two rival factions together. As long as Henry lacks an heir (which both York and Somerset desired to be named) to bring them together would have gone a long way to possibly averting the crises coming. As we well know from OTL, it was eventually done. It was just Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York...the children of these two figures. It was an interesting "what if" and so I could not help suggest it even though it would have never happened.
Anyway...some awesome looks and I'd love to see more. The next scene arrives in two days so plenty of time. Thanks so much for reading and giving comment!
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The Burgundians Dukes were really rather clever chaps, so I find it far more historically likely that they would plunder the crap out of France, then do a deal with whoever ended up usurping the French monarchy. Technically, their lands and feaulty are split between the Holy Roman Emperor and the king of France's. If they can make it so they have their own (at the time, much wealthier and stabler) realm apart from France and the empire, they would take it (that is exactly what they end up doing OTL when they obliterate the French army later on).
So the Burgundians are looters, opportunists (they'll certainly nick as much of the Low Countries and northern coastline as they can while France is down) but not looking to take the crown of France. That leaves the monarchs of England, and the Oreleans. This is bascially win win for Burgundy. One is a puppet now and probably will sign over whatever's they want in return for the throne. The other is a slightly more distantly ruler who will be pulled in all sorts of directions. Either way, Burgundy gets what's it wants (de Jure as well as de facto independence, a weaker but stable France, and the entire OTL burgundian Low Countries, as well as a massive pile of French loot and favours ).
England really should be prepping for a full on invasion and regime change in France...but they can't, because the king is ineptly, the queen is inept and they are both without issue. Maddening!
So the Burgundians are looters, opportunists (they'll certainly nick as much of the Low Countries and northern coastline as they can while France is down) but not looking to take the crown of France. That leaves the monarchs of England, and the Oreleans. This is bascially win win for Burgundy. One is a puppet now and probably will sign over whatever's they want in return for the throne. The other is a slightly more distantly ruler who will be pulled in all sorts of directions. Either way, Burgundy gets what's it wants (de Jure as well as de facto independence, a weaker but stable France, and the entire OTL burgundian Low Countries, as well as a massive pile of French loot and favours ).
England really should be prepping for a full on invasion and regime change in France...but they can't, because the king is ineptly, the queen is inept and they are both without issue. Maddening!
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Boooo. Just imagine Margaret's face when her beloved France disappears. And that's without considering the many other considerable benefits of a world without France.
Technically no, but only because the bar for that is so very low. Just on a consanguinity basis the Habsburgs had many worse matches and of course there are disasters like Margaret of Valois and Henry of Navarre.
As for the match itself, if it was part of a wider settlement then I suppose it could play a part. Just a stand alone marriage as you've said it helps Henry and does nothing at all for Richard, arguably weakens him if anything. But if Richard was named heir and given some appropriate rank on the council so he could over-rule Somerset (but also agreed he would tolerate him remaining on the council), then sealing that with a marriage pact could be appropriate. It would all be on the understanding that Henry actually keeps his promise and doesn't boot Richard out or change his mind on heir, because if he did the marriage would be off. I could never see Margaret accepting that sort of deal though.
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More fb-fb:
Burgundy has always been a fascination for me for many of the reasons you suggest above. That may well be why they held off on peace for so long though I am hesitant to give the AI that much credit. Either way, it adds to the madness.
If nothing else, I value greatly our esteemed member @The Number 9 and though he has not been seen for years, the great Nil-the-Frogg (no reason to @ him because he is long gone from us sadly.) Also certainly, I value their ability to correct me in my française such that it is.
As to the other, it is indeed a missed opportunity for peace but one that could not be achieved. Margaret would not like it eventually, Somerset and York would not on the face of it and indeed...even if Henry wanted it for peace, he could easily be convinced at later date that it was a bad idea. Thus his breaking of Margaret Beaufort's marriage now. It has been stated that Henry would take the last piece of advice he gained. Such a King. ::rolls eyes::
Maddening indeed. If I were playing this straight up, I would definitely take advantage. But then...I caused some of it (probably most of it) so I don't want to pile on. And as I say...it works for the story.
Burgundy has always been a fascination for me for many of the reasons you suggest above. That may well be why they held off on peace for so long though I am hesitant to give the AI that much credit. Either way, it adds to the madness.
To your first point, I would not say that.Boooo. Just imagine Margaret's face when her beloved France disappears. And that's without considering the many other considerable benefits of a world without France.
Technically no, but only because the bar for that is so very low. Just on a consanguinity basis the Habsburgs had many worse matches and of course there are disasters like Margaret of Valois and Henry of Navarre.
As for the match itself, if it was part of a wider settlement then I suppose it could play a part. Just a stand alone marriage as you've said it helps Henry and does nothing at all for Richard, arguably weakens him if anything. But if Richard was named heir and given some appropriate rank on the council so he could over-rule Somerset (but also agreed he would tolerate him remaining on the council), then sealing that with a marriage pact could be appropriate. It would all be on the understanding that Henry actually keeps his promise and doesn't boot Richard out or change his mind on heir, because if he did the marriage would be off. I could never see Margaret accepting that sort of deal though.
If nothing else, I value greatly our esteemed member @The Number 9 and though he has not been seen for years, the great Nil-the-Frogg (no reason to @ him because he is long gone from us sadly.) Also certainly, I value their ability to correct me in my française such that it is.As to the other, it is indeed a missed opportunity for peace but one that could not be achieved. Margaret would not like it eventually, Somerset and York would not on the face of it and indeed...even if Henry wanted it for peace, he could easily be convinced at later date that it was a bad idea. Thus his breaking of Margaret Beaufort's marriage now. It has been stated that Henry would take the last piece of advice he gained. Such a King. ::rolls eyes::
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London, January 1453
Margaret remembered these rooms. This chamber. It was where she had stayed when she first arrived to England. One of the few clear memories she held from that time. The Tower was a palace but it was also a prison. She was not certain which she inhabited at the now. She longed for her considered home to Greenwich but the royal progress had come to an end and after the Christmas season spent there, Henry had dragged her back to London for this ceremony. She held little care. What did she really hold? A crown? Much good it did her. A royal and kingly husband? Such that he showed her. Worth? As she looked to herself in the mirror, she did not see it.
She felt barren as she had yet to produce a child and heir. She felt unloved as the King treated her miserably. She felt useless as no one seemed to care for or like her. Suffolk was gone. Somerset had been shamed. York hated her, she was certain. And she yearned...for a time and place when she was feted and appreciated. When she was seen as the beauty of the ball...the most desirous of all. What once was a promise of riches and glory as Queen of England had turned to nothing but trouble to her mind and each day more proved it.
It was late and she was soon to bed, but she could not help but take that last moment to spy her face one more time. Was she still beautiful? The weariness was beginning to show, she thought. She still held her figure and if she should ever quicken her womb, that too would be gone. There were those that still cared for her, but they seemed less and less. There was no glory to being Queen. It was merely a trapping...a title...and no thing more.
“Mon père...tu es un homme insensé!” she stated to the mirror, “Tu as pris l'or et tu m'as donné de la merde!”
Her father did not answer her but a knock to her chamber door did. With a weary reply she called out, “Oui?”
Pierre de Brézé slowly entered the chamber, “Ma Reine...vous avez un visiteur.”
“It is not the King is it?” she questioned without looking away from herself.
“No madam,” he replied, “It is another. Your Lord of Somerset.”
Margaret was quick to pluck at her cheeks and settle her hair as she stood, “Then send him in, mon bon monsieur. I shall at least have some bonne chose this night.”
“Très bien,” Pierre answered as he led the Duke into her chamber.
As she stood looking pretty in her night gown, Edmund Beaufort entered and showed her a bow, “My Lady Queen.”
“You have found me indelicate, my Lord,” Margaret showed a grin, “I know not why you come, but I am happy for it.”
Edmund stepped closer into the room and Pierre shut the chamber door behind him leaving them alone, “I...merely wished to see if you were well, my Lady. You did look cross this day. I have not seen you in some months and hold a worry.”
“You are kind,” she sat again to her dressing table.
“Was your progress...difficult?” Edmund asked.
Margaret turned back to her mirror, “It was excruciating.”
“And your favor with the King?” he questioned.
She turned back to him, “What favor would that be, sir? He shows it to York it seems. Now today...shows it to his brothers of Tudor. Even the Lord Chancellor finds his desired raise.”
“Cardinal Kempe has ever wished the seat at Canterbury,” Somerset gave nod, “Let us see if the second time as Archbishop is more worthy than the first.”
“I do not care about Kempe,” she sighed as she looked to herself again, “Nor even the brothers. I would care for myself if I should still hold such.”
Edmund hesitated but answered, “My Lady...I do care about you.”
“You would then be alone in that thought, sir,” Margaret felt a tear to her eye.
“Why not then go to the King?” Somerset questioned.
She turned back to him, “For I am unwanted and am shown no reason to be. For all that York did to him and made him feel wounded, Henry has wounded me. I know not how I may forgive him.”
“A kind word, my Lady,” Edmund suggested, “A tender showing. Would go a long way, I should think.”
Margaret narrowed her brow, “What makes you think that I desire it? I have been sold like sheep more times than I can imagine and he does so once again.”
“He sells you to no one, madam,” Edmund attempted to comfort, “You are his Queen and I am certain that he loves you.”
“Hmm!” she chuffed, “I think not. He holds his own at the now and is more favorable to giving out gifts to his family and favorites. Not to me. I am not one of them.”
The Duke of Somerset stepped slightly forward, “He does give gifts to his family, to be sure. Yet the Tudor brothers are meaningful to him. His own brothers when he holds no other siblings. That familial bond should not be broken and he merely wishes to honor them.”
“This young thing...” Margaret questioned herself as she tried to recall, “...what be her name?”
Edmund gave nod, “The same as yours, my Lady.”
“Indeed!” she scoffed, “He would officially place her as ward to the elder brother? What be her import?”
“She is my niece, my Lady,” Edmund stated clearly, “I made promise to my brother when he died. I would care for her. I hope to have done so.”
Margaret barely heard him, “I think him to have some match game invited. Place the girl with his brother Edmund. Ha! Your name.”
“It is indeed,” he replied quietly.
“It is funny to me, actually...” she mused to herself, “...the older brother holds a bearing but it is the younger that seems more sturdy...strong.”
Somerset answered, “That be Jasper, my Lady. Younger by a moment but still very much loved by His Grace.”
“Very much loved!” Margaret stated as she turned back to him, “Many trappings. Not only full investiture of the Earldoms but so too rich gowns...furs...saddles...fine caparisons for their horses? Velvet and cloth of gold, my Lord. When have I seen such from my husband?”
“I believe His Grace holds wish to honor his fine mother,” Edmund suggested.
Margaret turned back to her mirror, “Another French bride. The great Catherine. I believe her as much prisoner as I find myself. Yet I do wonder in her after fact...after the King Henry died...that she did find some lowly man and stay here to England. Did she love it so much as that?”
“I believe that she did love him, madam,” Edmund answered with a bittersweet notion, “Though I could not truly say. Yet she remained young and it is said that their affair began when the man Owen took up residence as her keeper of household and wardrobe.”
“Is that what you are to me, sir?” Margaret turned to him with a coquettish eye.
“I...” Edmund was taken off guard, “...I would serve you in whatever regard.”
Margaret stood and moved to him, “I am a lonely woman myself, my Lord. Also still quite young.”
“And remain very beautiful,” he stated without hesitation.
“Am I?” she questioned as she leaned in to him.
Edmund was almost flustered, “It is a shame that the King does not see that.”
“Yes it is,” Margaret brushed a hand to his cheek, “It would seem that few do at this time.”
“That is nonsense, my Lady,” Somerset wished to step away for the impropriety but could not help himself, “None that place eyes to you could see anything other.”
Margaret leaned in even closer, “Is that what you see?”
“My Lady!” Edmund finally retreated as delicately as he could, “I...I mean you no offense. Yet...you are painful hurt and I could not take advantage.”
“Speak not to me of offense or hurt!” she placed her hands forcefully to her hips, “I desire love, my Lord! I deserve love! I gain no thing from my husband...nor anyone else!”
Somerset took a beat before finding reply, “I love you...my Lady.”
“You would be the only,” Margaret answered as she turned away from him.
“No, madam...” Edmund stepped forward and turned her body back to face him, “...I love you!”
The Queen looked deeply into his eyes for quite some time before finally leaning in once more to give him a deep kiss. Despite his reservations, Somerset returned the affection and they held together for more than a moment. She would finally push back with gentle hands, “Are you certain that you are comfortable, my Lord?”
For some years now, Edmund Beaufort had tried to resist her charms and their relationship had been chaste. Despite what others had claimed, he knew that he had been an honorable man and she an honorable woman. Yet her delicate features...her wounded spirit...her precious eyes and supple mouth...he could not deny it, “No man could be more at comfort.”
“Then kiss me again...” Margaret pulled him back in, “...for I am needing of it this night.”
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Oh thank god for that. A proper, impossible to get out of reason to arrest and kill both of them.
Things are dire when I really feel for Somerset in a scene.
Things are dire when I really feel for Somerset in a scene.
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I just caught up, I was about a month late.
I really love how you manage to combine gameplay elements and real history. I can read it like a great book, I want to see what will happen at the next page.
Margaret and Somerset just cross the line. At last, I could say.
Her life was clearly hard (alone, in a foreign country with an instable husband and lots of people who saw her as an enemy) but she had that talent to complicate everything for her (so many bad choices, it's hard to have empathy).
Just a note, and absolutely not important, you had Margaret tell Pierre de Brezé "bien monsieur" (it doesn't seem correct in this phrase). Did you want to say "good sir" ? if that is, it's more "mon bon monsieur" (I'm not sure Margaret spoke so politely to his servant but who knows ).
I really love how you manage to combine gameplay elements and real history. I can read it like a great book, I want to see what will happen at the next page.
Margaret and Somerset just cross the line. At last, I could say.
Her life was clearly hard (alone, in a foreign country with an instable husband and lots of people who saw her as an enemy) but she had that talent to complicate everything for her (so many bad choices, it's hard to have empathy).
Just a note, and absolutely not important, you had Margaret tell Pierre de Brezé "bien monsieur" (it doesn't seem correct in this phrase). Did you want to say "good sir" ? if that is, it's more "mon bon monsieur" (I'm not sure Margaret spoke so politely to his servant but who knows
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Fb-fb:
And great to see that you've caught up! Awesome to see it is blending well and reading as a book for that is what I want. Thanks!
You must know it will not be so simple as that.
First off...absolutely correct me if I'm using the French incorrectly. I've never been fluent even though I can speak a little from what I learned in high school. I did indeed mean "good sir" so I will fix that. I hope the rest was correct. I will use French with her from time to time for verisimilitude so I always hope it done correctly.I just caught up, I was about a month late.
I really love how you manage to combine gameplay elements and real history. I can read it like a great book, I want to see what will happen at the next page.
Margaret and Somerset just cross the line. At last, I could say.
Her life was clearly hard (alone, in a foreign country with an instable husband and lots of people who saw her as an enemy) but she had that talent to complicate everything for her (so many bad choices, it's hard to have empathy).
Just a note, and absolutely not important, you had Margaret tell Pierre de Brezé "bien monsieur" (it doesn't seem correct in this phrase). Did you want to say "good sir" ? if that is, it's more "mon bon monsieur" (I'm not sure Margaret spoke so politely to his servant but who knows
And great to see that you've caught up! Awesome to see it is blending well and reading as a book for that is what I want. Thanks!
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Suffolk is disgraced, and the Queen is cheating on the King.
Margaret's days are clearly numbered...
Margaret's days are clearly numbered...
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Ok, best case scenario fantasizing here: Margaret and Somerset get caught in flagrante and get theirs, and this whole mess somehow doesn’t cause King Henry to have a psychotic break and start running through the palace naked or insisting that he is made of glass like his grandfather used to do, and it somehow doesn’t cause Richard to try and put the king out to pasture in a monastery or otherwise conspire that no child of Henry’s gets between him and the throne, and it instead causes him to feel sorry for his cousin and finally do right by him by finding him a bride that would make him happy… who would be the candidates?
I’m honestly liking the thought of a Portuguese match - right now King Duarte o Philosophe (King Edward the Philosopher) has two unmarried daughters, Catherine and Joan, and so few eligible marriage alliances for them that he wound up sending Catherine to a convent (Joan would marry Henry IV of Castile in 1455). Both girls are reported to be quite intelligent and Catherine was exceptionally pious and chaste (her sister… not so much), and not only do they and their father have a vested interest in a strong and stable England, but they likely are already fluent English speakers thanks to their grandmother Phillipa of Lancaster (Henry IV’s sister, Henry VI’s great-aunt).
I’m honestly liking the thought of a Portuguese match - right now King Duarte o Philosophe (King Edward the Philosopher) has two unmarried daughters, Catherine and Joan, and so few eligible marriage alliances for them that he wound up sending Catherine to a convent (Joan would marry Henry IV of Castile in 1455). Both girls are reported to be quite intelligent and Catherine was exceptionally pious and chaste (her sister… not so much), and not only do they and their father have a vested interest in a strong and stable England, but they likely are already fluent English speakers thanks to their grandmother Phillipa of Lancaster (Henry IV’s sister, Henry VI’s great-aunt).
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What you mean?You must know it will not be so simple as that.
This is exactly what is going to happen, considering she's already been caught doing far less. She's an idiot, and the Duke is honourable. One of them is going to let something slip.
Especially if she gets preggers. No one is going to believe Henry touched her for that long.
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