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Pavía

Content Design Lead PDX Tinto
Paradox Staff
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Jan 3, 2006
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Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Maps Feedback post! Today we will look at the review of Germany, or to be more precise, the remaining lands of the HRE that were not covered in previous updates. Let's look first at the list of changes:

ADDITIONS

Added the following:
  • Locations (46 + 5 Lakes + several Wastelands)
    • Achim
    • Annaburg
    • Aschendorf
    • Baden im Aargau
    • Beichlingen
    • Bochum
    • Bonndorf
    • Bremervörde
    • Bützow
    • Delmenhorst
    • Disentis
    • Ebstorf
    • Erbach
    • Freyburg
    • Fürstenberg
    • Gotha
    • Heiligenhafen
    • Helfenstein
    • Illereichen
    • Immenstadt
    • Isenhagen
    • La Roche-sur-Foron
    • Landau
    • Lüchow
    • Malchow
    • Marienstern
    • Meinersen
    • Meisenheim
    • Neustadt an der Haardt
    • Ohrdruf
    • Oppenheim
    • Pinneberg
    • Pritzwalk
    • Sallanches
    • Saulgau
    • Solingen
    • Stockach
    • Toggenburg
    • Třeboň
    • Treuenbrietzen
    • Wertingen
    • Winsen an der Aller
    • Wittenberge
    • Wolhusen
    • Wurzen
    • Zossen
  • Lakes
    • Lake Chiemsee
    • Lake Lucerne
    • Lake Müritz
    • Lake Starnberg
    • Lake Zürich
  • Wastelands
    • Divided many Wastelands in more pieces.
  • TAGs (52)
    • Aosta
    • Beeskow-Starkow
    • Beichlingen
    • Belmont (Switzerland)
    • Brandenburg (Bishopric)
    • Colmar (Free City)
    • Disentis
    • Ellwangen
    • Everstein
    • Falkenstein
    • Fürstenberg
    • Gleichen
    • God's House League
    • Grey League
    • Gruyère
    • Gurk
    • Hachberg (Baden)
    • Haguenau
    • Heidenheim
    • Helfenstein
    • Hohenzollern
    • Holstein Pinneberg
    • Jever
    • Kirchberg
    • Landau
    • Lebus (Bishopric)
    • Lichtenberg
    • Manderscheid
    • Meissen (Bishopric)
    • Mesocco
    • Mulhouse (Free City)
    • Murbach
    • Nassau Dillenburg
    • Nassau Idstein
    • Nassau Siegen
    • Nassau Weilburg
    • Nellenburg
    • Nidda
    • Pfalz Simmern Zweibrücken
    • Riedesel
    • Rietberg
    • Saarwerden
    • Sausenberg
    • Strasbourg (Free City)
    • Toggenburg
    • Truhendingen
    • Tübingen
    • Veldenz
    • Waldeck
    • Wernigerode
    • Wied
  • Characters
    • bdb_ludwig_schenk_von_neindorf (Bishopric of Brandenburg)
    • bhl_friedrich_von_beichlingen
    • bhl_friedrich_von_bleichlingen (Count of Bleichlingen)
    • blb_stefan_ii (Bishopric of Lebus)
    • bms_withego_ii_colditz (Bishopric of Meissen)
    • gln_albrecht_ii
    • gln_albrecht_iii
    • gln_ernst_i
    • gln_ernst_ii
    • gln_ernst_iii
    • gln_ernst_iv
    • gln_ernst_v
    • gln_erwin_i
    • gln_erwin_ii
    • gln_heinrich_i
    • gln_heinrich_iii
    • gln_heinrich_iv
    • gln_herrmann_iv
    • gln_lambert_i
    • gln_lambert_ii
    • gry_agnes_de_gruyere
    • gry_catherine_de_la_tour_chatillon
    • gry_jean_de_montsalvens
    • gry_pierre_i_de_gruyere
    • gry_pierre_ii_de_gruyere
    • gry_pierre_iii_de_gruyere
    • gry_pierre_iv_de_gruyere
    • gry_rodolphe_i_de_gruyere
    • gry_ulrich_de_gruyere
    • lic_johann_i_von_lichtenberg
    • lic_johann_ii_von_lichtenberg
    • lic_ludwig_i_von_lichtenberg
    • lic_ludwig_ii_von_lichtenberg
    • lic_ludwig_iv_von_lichtenberg
    • lic_verena_von_freiburg
    • mds_adelheid_von_fischbach
    • mds_agnes_von_manderscheid
    • mds_gertrud_von_virneburg
    • mds_jutta_von_reuland
    • mds_wilhelm_i_von_manderscheid
    • mds_wilhelm_ii_von_manderscheid
    • mds_wilhelm_iii_von_manderscheid
    • mds_wilhelm_iv_von_manderscheid
    • nid_engelbert_i
    • nid_heilwig_von_isenburg
    • nid_ludwig_ii
    • nid_lukardis
    • nsa_henry_ii_nassau
    • nsa_otto_i_nassau
    • nsd_johann_i_nassau
    • nss_henry_i_nassau
    • nss_otto_ii_nassau
    • rbg_friedrich_i_von_rietberg
    • rbg_heinrich_i_von_rietberg
    • rbg_konrad_i_von_rietberg
    • rdl_elisabeth_von_eisenbach
    • rdl_hermann_i_riedesel
    • rdl_hermann_ii_riedesel
    • rdl_kraft_i_riedesel
    • tgg_adelheid_von_griessenberg
    • tgg_daughter1_von_toggenburg
    • tgg_daughter2_von_toggenburg
    • tgg_daughter3_von_toggenburg
    • tgg_diethelm_i_von_toggenburg
    • tgg_diethelm_ii_von_toggenburg
    • tgg_diethelm_v_von_toggenburg
    • vel_agnes_von_leiningen
    • vel_agnes_von_veldenz
    • vel_emicho_von_kyrburg
    • vel_georg_i_von_veldenz
    • vel_gerlach_i_von_veldenz
    • vel_gerlach_ii_von_veldenz
    • vel_gerlach_iii_von_veldenz
    • vel_gerlach_iv_von_veldenz
    • vel_gerlach_v_von_veldenz
    • vel_heinrich_ii_von_veldenz
    • vel_heinrich_von_geroldseck
    • vel_walter_von_geroldseck
    • wde_adelaide_von_kleve
    • wde_adolph_i_von_waldeck
    • wde_adolph_ii_von_waldeck
    • wde_armgard_von_waldeck
    • wde_dietrich_von_waldeck
    • wde_elisabeth_von_waldeck
    • wde_henry_iii_von_waldeck
    • wde_henry_iv_von_waldeck
    • wde_henry_v_von_waldeck
    • wde_mechthild_von_waldeck
    • wde_otto_i_von_waldeck
    • wde_otto_ii_von_waldeck
    • wgo_albrecht_v_von_wernigerode
    • wgo_gebhard_i_von_wernigerode
    • wgo_helene_von_braunschweig
    • wgo_konrad_i_von_wernigerode
    • wgo_konrad_ii_von_wernigerode
    • wgo_konrad_iii_von_wernigerode
    • wgo_konrad_iv_von_wernigerode
  • Dynamic Names
    • Added Czech, German (including Lower, Central and Upper), Polabian, Rhaetian (Friulian, Ladin and Romansh) and Sorbian Dynamic Names
CORRECTIONS

Renamed the following:
  • Locations (only corrections. Additionally renamed all locations to standardized form):
    • Aalen to Ellwangen
    • Aschersleben to Ballenstedt
    • Bad Hofgastein to Bischofshofen
    • Beckum to Rietberg
    • Bernkastel to Birkenfeld
    • Biedenkopf to Friedberg
    • Bílina to Husinec
    • Böblingen to Tübingen
    • Braunlage to Herzberg am Harz
    • Bruck an der Mür to Kapfenberg
    • Bulle to Gruyère
    • Coesfeld to Horstmar
    • Deggendorf to Kelheim
    • Dermbach to Aschach
    • Donauwörth to Oettingen
    • Ebermannstadt to Schesslitz
    • Erlangen to Sulzbach
    • Fritzlar to Melsungen
    • Fürth to Nagold
    • Genthin to Jerichow
    • Grafendorf to Waidhofen
    • Greifenstein to Davos
    • Gronau to Gandersheim
    • Guardaval to Zuoz
    • Ilmenau to Schleusingen
    • Imst to Landneck
    • Kadaň to Teplá
    • Kaufbeuren to Krumbach
    • Langenthal to Burgdorf
    • Lambach to Ischl
    • Lüdinghausen to Dulmen
    • Mariazell to Scheibbs
    • Montabaur to Wied
    • Münsingen to Sigmaringen
    • Olpe to Attendorn
    • Pfarrkirchen to Griesbach
    • Rees to Wesel
    • Rüdesheim to Katzenelnbogen
    • St. Wendel to Lichtenberg
    • Schotten to Nidda
    • Schwarzenberg to Sayda
    • Sonneberg to Saalfeld
    • Steinfurt to Rheine
    • Tábor to Jindřichův Hradec
    • Tuttlingen to Hohenberg
    • Vall d'Ossola to Domodossola
    • Vilsbiburg to Burghausen
    • Vohenstrauß to Leuchtenberg
    • Wangen to Waldburg
    • Westerstede to Friesoythe
    • Zug to Kyburg
TAGs
  • Removed (18)
    • Apolda
    • Biel/Bienne
    • Böbingen
    • Brückenau
    • Calw
    • Donauwörth
    • Eppstein
    • Hof
    • Kaufbeuren
    • Kevernburg
    • Lüdinghausen
    • Minden
    • Offenbach
    • Parsberg
    • Schlusselberg
    • Steinfurt
    • Wangen
    • Zeven
Raw Goods
  • Changed several Raw Goods as suggested
Terrain and Vegetation
  • Total Review
Locations
  • Redrew several Locations

And now, to the maps!

Countries:
Countries1.png

Countries2.png

Countries4.png

Countries3.png

The first map with no colored wastelands, the second with colored wastelands, the third with non-colored vassals, and the fourth, we are showing the entire territory of the HRE, not only Germany.

HRE IO:
HRE1.png

This is the updated HRE IO map, with the different categories (Prince-Elector & Archbishop-Elector, Imperial Peasant Republic, Free Imperial City, Imperial Prelate, and Imperial Prince). As usual, take the map mode as WIP (you may notice that it has already changed since the original Tinto Maps post, making it easier to read).

And here you have the current total number of members:
HRE2.png

Not all the countries appear in this box, you have to scroll a bit in-game to be able to see the remaining ones.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png


Governments:
Governments.png


Locations:
Locations1.png

Locations2.png

Locations3.png

Locations4.png

Locations5.png

Locations6.png


Provinces:
Provinces1.png

Provinces2.png

One of our German content designers has reworked the provinces. We've tried to get a balance between those that could directly translate to English, such as the different provinces of Styria, and those that couldn't be translated easily; so for a native German speaker, some will sound a bit weird, but we've tried to be consistent with how we manage it in general.

Areas:
Areas.png


Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

A bunch of changes after your feedback, especially on the Vegetation.

Development:
Development.png


Harbors:
I've noticed while preparing the Feedback post that we haven't posted the Natural Harbors of Europe, so I'll prepare another separate for them!

Cultures:
Cultures.png

There are some adjustments to the cultures, but not big changes.

Languages:
Language.png

Dialects.png

Court Language.png

The first map is the dominant languages, the second is the dialects (which, I remind you, is primarily used for flavour, and close to the 'language' linguistical definition), and the third is the court language.

Religions:
Religion.png

Not many changes in the religious map, only a few Waldensians were added to Austria.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

Lots of changes!

Markets:
Markets.png

We haven't changed the market centers, you may notice some differences with the Tinto Maps post, which depend on the constant balancing we keep doing to this feature.

And that's all for today! Remember that on Friday we will be taking a look at a German country, Bavaria. Cheers!
 
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Yikes, what happened to the color scheme of the terrain map mode?

Flatland - plateau is totally indistinguishable for me (probably a color blind thing once again?).
Is Plateau green now?

At risk of sounding like a broken record: green-yellow-orange is near-impossible color scheme for the majority of colorblind people.
About 1/12 men has colorblindness. Considering the PDX game demographic, 1/12 players will have issues with these colors.

Regardless of color, flatlands-plateau really needs a better contrast (imo there was nothing wrong with the previous scheme, was the previous color scheme really that poorly received?)

EDIT - color blindness simulation
Normal visionRed weak/blindness simulationGreen weak/blindness simulationBlue weak/blindness simulation
View attachment 1255497red weakView attachment 1255505green weak
View attachment 1255506
blue weak
View attachment 1255508
red blind
View attachment 1255502
green blind
View attachment 1255500
blue blind
View attachment 1255503
Noted, we will take a look at it to improve it, thanks!
 
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Good to see that you added Pistoia in Tuscany like I suggested! Can you also make Prato a vassal of Naples too?
Prato is ruled by King Robert of Anjou.
 
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any news regarding the Levant culture and religion feedback maps?
It will take a while, we are now focusing more on the review of locations and other aspects of Tinto Maps, and will probably concentrate the pop review in 'batches' later on, as it's now more efficient to do it this way. But we haven't forgotten about any regions with pending pop reviews, don't worry about that. ;)
 
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I think there were a lot of questions for Angrian and Markish/Brandenburgish (there should be only one of them).

In what way they have been addressed?

Many people argue it is an incorrect division
View attachment 1255499View attachment 1255498View attachment 1255501
There are plenty of maps with the dialectal distribution of German, and we have though and discussed it quite in-depth, including our German content designers, of course. We still think this is the best possible division for the region.
 
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sooo

given that even Germany got + 40 locations, any chances about a feedback - feedback of Italy and France?
Why? They already got their reviews.
 
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How about population? The previous map of germany has a lot of issues with that
Yes, we yet have to review it, but we think that it's better to keep moving the rest of the feedback, and later post reviewed population maps.
 
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Can't see any honeywax in the Raw goods map.
Didn't they mention that they added it as a raw good in several post before?
Maybe it's actually a manufactured good now?
Hmm, I think it may be a bug... But you will have more news on the new resources soon, I think.
 
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How many members of these different categories are there (Prince-Elector & Archbishop-Elector, Imperial Peasant Republic, Free Imperial City, Imperial Prelate, and Imperial Prince), and which colours are which on the map? What’s the difference between the lime green and the slightly duller green many of the opms have, or are they all just free cities? What’s the dark blue? Are all Grey members still ‘imperial princes’?
1. We will talk about the different HRE categories in a Tinto Talks devoted to HRE.
2. Lime green are Free Imperial Cities, duller green are other republics, dark blue are Imperial Prelates (= theocracies), and grey are regular 'Imperial Princes' members, yes.
 
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What tag is P.S.Z.? It owns Simmern.
Pfalz Simmern Zweibrücken, but it looks like an overlook, and that it should probably be incorporated to the Palatinate.
 
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View attachment 1255539
It's cool to see these two here(even though I don't think existed in 1337) but where are they, Are they BBCs, In that case can we have the map please?
The first is a revolter/releasable, and the second is a formable, both in Switzerland.
 
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Is "Bay" a translation for German "Gau"?
View attachment 1255552

Here you can see Cologne Bay (which for me sounds like Gulf of London) but also Kraichgau (with gau). Why not just Kölngau?
or this
View attachment 1255554
From one of our German CDs: "No, Bay has no relation to the word Gau, it is the geographical term for this area. In German it is called 'Kölner Bucht'. 'Cologne Bay' is the compromise between our standard and consistency within the game, alternative names are 'Cologne Lowlands', 'Cologne Bight' or you could say 'Cologne Basin'."
 
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Has it been mentioned if there is going to be a search feature to locate countries on the select screen?
It already exists, yes.
 
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