Tinto Maps #17 Arabia Feedback

[Maitha]

For the locations in the northern emirates:

Khorfakkan should be split into three locations: Dibba, Khorfakkan and Kalba. As they were all separate settlements which were significant in the history of the region, they were also frequently controlled by differing polities. Even till today (Kalba being controlled by Sharjah, Khor Fakkan by fujairah, and Dibba is split between Oman, sharjah, and fujairah) it makes no sense to group them all together as one location. Khorfakkan, should produce dates or fruit. Dibba pearls. Kalba is known for its honey, but as honey isnt a material in game, they should produce fish. dibba and khorfakkan should also be natural harbors, as both locations were protected by surrounding mountains and natural inlets

For sharjah and al dayd. they should should be split. with sharjah and umm al quawin (Al dayd) as coastal locations. Melihah(sharjah) and al dayd should be interior locations

Jolfar should be split into julfar and musandam/ khasab

Hatta/masfout, could also be its own seperate location

 

[I_have_no_ideas_for_name]

Markets
View attachment 1263673
We're testing some new coloring for this map mode, what do you think about it?

(Sorry, but this colouring is just kinda disorienting, return the black wastelands, please)

 

[3bdo016]

Sure. So the population would be Sunni while the country itself, isn't.

yes that what i was trying to say the problem is that the religion map shows the population as majority shia and that was not the case

 

[nyetflix2]

yes that what i was trying to say the problem is that the religion map shows the population as majority shia and that was not the case

Do we know how much of the population in the hejaz was shia? I assume it wasn't literally just the rulers

 

[Azgabeth]

This isn’t feedback but a question to those familiar with the region so i can plan my campaign:

Is the country with the Qatatid Dynasti the Sharifate of Meccah? And are the Qatatid the Hashemites?

From what i understand on wikipedia The Hashemites are the Banu Hashim within the Qatatid tribe but this organizational structure has always been confusing to me.

I ask because I’d like to restore the Caliphate with the Prophet’s family eventually.

On another note; shouldn’t Oman be a theocracy with an imamate? Did i misunderstand how that organizational structure worked? Or perhaps it had already transitioned to a sultanate? Can someone enlighten me???

 

[Streamlet]

This isn’t feedback but a question to those familiar with the region so i can plan my campaign:

Is the country with the Qatatid Dynasti the Sharifate of Meccah? And are the Qatatid the Hashemites?

From what i understand on wikipedia The Hashemites are the Banu Hashim within the Qatatid tribe but this organizational structure has always been confusing to me.

I ask because I’d like to restore the Caliphate with the Prophet’s family eventually.

On another note; shouldn’t Oman be a theocracy with an imamate? Did i misunderstand how that organizational structure worked? Or perhaps it had already transitioned to a sultanate? Can someone enlighten me???

Oman was currently controlled by the Nabhani kings, the Imamate would gain power again in the 15th century.

Nabhani dynasty - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Gurtannon]

This isn’t feedback but a question to those familiar with the region so i can plan my campaign:

Is the country with the Qatatid Dynasti the Sharifate of Meccah? And are the Qatatid the Hashemites?

From what i understand on wikipedia The Hashemites are the Banu Hashim within the Qatatid tribe but this organizational structure has always been confusing to me.

As far as I know, Sharifate of Mecca traditionally ruled by Prophet’s lineage, which Qatadid were Hasan’s descendants,

Hashemites were just Sharif Hussein’s branch in broader Banu Qatadah

 

[matfer13]

Dhofar and Yas have very similar colours, can you make the first one a darker pink and the second one lighter?

 

[HighlordThoranis]

Is it just me, or is the color of Shiite and Ibadi basically identical? Or is this how I find out I'm some kind of color blind?

 

[Maitha]

This isn’t feedback but a question to those familiar with the region so i can plan my campaign:

Is the country with the Qatatid Dynasti the Sharifate of Meccah? And are the Qatatid the Hashemites?

From what i understand on wikipedia The Hashemites are the Banu Hashim within the Qatatid tribe but this organizational structure has always been confusing to me.

I ask because I’d like to restore the Caliphate with the Prophet’s family eventually.

The qattatids are Hashemite’s and part of the banu hashim. So it’s not the other way around. The current royal family of Jordan are qatatids

 

[jimfinbinlin]

Stop it. Get some help.
We've been over this but it appears my plea was missed.

 

[ZigTheNorweigan]

Anyone considered or tried to find out what these nations under the Imamate of Oman aare and how they exist under the 1337 timeline?

 

[Streamlet]

Anyone considered or tried to find out what these nations under the Imamate of Oman aare and how they exist under the 1337 timeline?View attachment 1265553

I actually did try for a bit, but there weren't any relevant countries for 1337. What this map is really representing is the collapse of Nabhani authority in the 15th/16th century.

The viceroyalty of Oman (under Hormuz) also wouldn't really be relevant, since it represents a Hormuzi prince who was appointed to the area to rule, but in 1337 this didn't really exist in the same way. The Hormuzi king himself even lived in Qalhat in the 1340s.

 

[Ispil]

Anyone considered or tried to find out what these nations under the Imamate of Oman aare and how they exist under the 1337 timeline?View attachment 1265553

A quick bit of Wikipedia-ing (as well as just looking at the map in question) shows that those aren't nations at all, but just "the Nahbanids based around whatever city". Given that the Nahbanids were the ruling dynasty at the time, I think that's more a map of some sort of collapse instead of anything that's at all applicable in 1337.

 

[ZigTheNorweigan]

Since i made a post regarding China and Japan regarding what islands there should be and my justifications for it (Linked below).

Tinto Maps #24 - 25th of October - Japan and Korea

Hello and welcome once more to another week of Tinto Maps. This week we are going to the lands even further to the East and taking a look at Korea and Japan. So, without further ado, let’s get started. Countries Korea during the Goryeo dynasty...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

I will make a proposal for some islands to be represented
Firstly in the Persian gulf i would propose adding 3-4 island locations
Kharg (I)
Hormoz Island (II)
Kish Island (III)
and maybe Sir Baniyas Island

In the Indian ocean side
I believe the Al hanniyah islands of Oman should be represented probably as a single location archipelego
I think Socotra could be split into 2 or 3 locations to represent the varying topography and geography of the island
The flatlands in the south and north could possible be split into 2 locations while the third location occupies the majority of the central portion of the island representing the rugged elevated portions. If not just one in the south to represent the flat coast and another for everything else is also possible

Also im not sure if the Farasan archipelago is featured in the map due to lack of closeup images but they should be added as well they are in the Red sea off the western coast of yemen

The Hanish islands are also another area to add a location

 

[AntarcticRanger]

Is it just me, or is the color of Shiite and Ibadi basically identical? Or is this how I find out I'm some kind of color blind?

They are similar, Shiite is more yellow though.
This topic was talked about on the first Arabia thread, and I stand by my opinion that the Ibadi color is my favorite color in the game and I really don't want it changed, so I hope they just make Shiite more yellow.

 

[matfer13]

Maṣīrah, Julfar and Khawr Fakkān should all have bad but still natural harbours

 

[Álvaro Núñez de Lara]

The markets map looks SO MUCH better.

 

[Braziler]

The market map seems more consistent with the overall design. If the shade of gray representing less market access and the beige color of impassable lands were closer together, it would be better. Regarding the relief map, I understand that the hills are more important to highlight than the plains and plateaus, but it is already a very strong convention, I think putting the hills yellow and returning the plateaus orange is better. In general, people will complain about the changes, as they have already gotten used to the previous design.

 

[Kvesir]

i see same color stripes in Al Majdal where tinto previously attributed jewish pops(inaccurate btw Gaza should have more jewish pops) its also jews in Yemen
View attachment 1263695

Good catch!

It is definitely inaccurate for a large Jewish minority to be in Al Majdal at this point in history. Most of the Jews who used to live in Palestine fled during the crusades, as did many Muslims, and under the Mamluks coastal Palestine has been completely rebuilt. Al Majdal (Majdal Asqalan) was a town built by the Mamluk sultan Baybars (who defeated both the 7th crusade and the Mongols) after he destroyed the port city of Ascalon. It was build 3km inland in purpose so that it won't be a trader port anymore, as part of a wider Mamluk policy to destroy Palestine's port cities to prevent them from being a foothold for the crusaders. So obviously Majdal had little to no Jews in it, and this is visible in later Ottoman censuses. Caesarea, Apollonia and Acre suffered the same fate, but Gaza and Jaffa did not. This should be reflected in the game by only Gaza and Jaffa having port buildings, btw.

Gaza should be the only location in Palestine in which there is a significant Jewish minority particularly because we know that the Mamluks allowed the Jews who fled from the crusaders centuries prior to resettle in Gaza specifically. This heavily implies that there weren't many Jews in the rest of Palestine (except for Jerusalem and Safed). Gaza, as opposed to all other coast-adjacent towns in Palestine at this period, is the only town that we know for certain thanks to reports by traders to have had a large Jewish community and also to have been big and prosperous in general at this period.

Tiberias, by the way, used to have a big Jewish minority but it was razed to the ground by Khwarezmian mercenaries and was only rebuilt in the 1500s. Many Jews arrived to it and other towns in Palestine in the 1500s after having been expelled from Iberia.

On the same note, I dislike having purple as the color for Judaism in game, it is way too close to the color of Miaphysites and it makes the Jewish minority in Ethiopia hardly visible. Why not blue? Purple also has no significant meaning in Judaism, as opposed to bright blue/azure. Azure is mentioned in the bible as the color of parts of the tabernacle and the priests' clothes, it is part of some rites and it holds special meaning: it is associated with purity and heaven.