updated megathread archive.
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Thanks for the reply. The first 2 sentences from your post have nothing to do with my reply so I will not answer it but I can understand your point of view and concerns. Yes the game isn't just 1337 but it's not just XIX century either and accurately representing the first 450 years of gameplay should be more important then the last 50. The problem with partion borders is that they were arbitrary, didn't follow any historical internal borders and ceased to exist shortly after their creation thanks to the Napoleon. The game offers great granularity but to be able to portray both the partion borders and historical ones there is no room left. Which means that it's either one or another. But I do agree that the congress of vienna borders should be achievable mainly given the fact that it requires a small amount of location tweaking. They were even included in my own proposal regarding the region which I think paradox have taken into consideration but it's no matter that I would cry over.
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Hi, thank you for the changes. Map looks much better for me in general. I like Polish culture split/most of terrain changes and new locations.
But with new locations I wonder how borders/terrain shlould look like.
From Johan (Scandinavia map): I went by the rule that if the peaks are less than 500 meters it's flatland, and you need to have over 1,000 meters and rather uneven to be a mountain.
I don't know if this still applies to this map, but if so I would consider some terrain and border changes:
FIRST:
Location: Czchów From highest point to the valleys nearby you have more than 600 meters elevation (see red marks on the map):
Source - Polish tourist map of trails mapa-turystyczna.pl
SECOND:
Why Jasło location got these lands: Woulnd't it be more convinient to give these to Biecz location?
For me it would be better to give these lands to closer Biecz location and make it hills due to terrain over there (Jaslo would still reamin hills too) - proposed border changes at the bottom.
THIRD:
I think Oświecim/Uośwjyńćim location should be flatlands. They appear like hills only because of the mountain in the south, but in the north of the location is super flat area (elevation between various points about 100 meters only - red mark on the map below): I think mountains on the south should be added to Żywiec/Żywjec location (see map at the bottom).
Source - Polish tourist map of trails mapa-turystyczna.pl
Proposed border changes:
PS: Thank you all for your work.
But with new locations I wonder how borders/terrain shlould look like.
From Johan (Scandinavia map): I went by the rule that if the peaks are less than 500 meters it's flatland, and you need to have over 1,000 meters and rather uneven to be a mountain.
I don't know if this still applies to this map, but if so I would consider some terrain and border changes:
FIRST:
Location: Czchów From highest point to the valleys nearby you have more than 600 meters elevation (see red marks on the map):
Source - Polish tourist map of trails mapa-turystyczna.pl
SECOND:
Why Jasło location got these lands: Woulnd't it be more convinient to give these to Biecz location?
For me it would be better to give these lands to closer Biecz location and make it hills due to terrain over there (Jaslo would still reamin hills too) - proposed border changes at the bottom.
THIRD:
I think Oświecim/Uośwjyńćim location should be flatlands. They appear like hills only because of the mountain in the south, but in the north of the location is super flat area (elevation between various points about 100 meters only - red mark on the map below): I think mountains on the south should be added to Żywiec/Żywjec location (see map at the bottom).
Source - Polish tourist map of trails mapa-turystyczna.pl
Proposed border changes:
PS: Thank you all for your work.
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It actually isn’t bait! The name is from me playing CK2 a decade ago and in this case the French hexagon and natural borders are both important to the period, both as a historical and player objective.
Edit: oh wait this was about a different post. I meant the 1795 partition borders, though the Duchy of Warsaw should be replicable, and of course I mentioned French Rhine borders elsewhere.
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Hi, I think you should include Świętokrzyskie Mountains in your terrain map of Poland, they are at the northern part of lesser poland.
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It'd be a good suggestion for Victoria or perhaps an Eurasian spin-off for After The End, but not so much EU5.
Łuków/Siedlce area is more Podlachian/Mazovian now because it has belonged to various Podlachian and Mazovian units administrative units since the 19th century (see the history of "South Podlachia": https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podlasie_Południowe ) but in the late Middle Ages and the early modern era it was first under Sandomierz and then Lubelian voivodeships: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziemia_łukowska
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On main maps ypu do the job although...you are...you are.....forgiven..but do not dissapoint us further...or..WE WILL RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH YOU!!Am sorry. You trusted me and I failed you.
we are not joking,this is serious...
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As the dev diary said, Yuri II rules both under personal union as King of Ruthenia. At this time, Liubartas was a local ruler in Volhynia until 1340. This is where things get a bit confusing, because representing Ruthernia as a union of separated Galicia and Volhynia means that technically yes, Yuri II ruled both, but also technically Liubartas ruled Volhynia as his subject. So they're not really representing it wrong, but if they have a Lithuanian ruler in Oreshek as a subject of Novgorod then they might as well have a lithuanian ruler in Volhynia as well.
Also imo it should be called Galicia to be consistent with english names used for most countries on the map, though Halychia was probably chosen as compromise because Galicia also exists in Spain likely as a releasable country. In that case Halych would be better yes.
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Why is Szczyrzyc province named like that? I assume that a province is named after the most significant location, so i'd say it should be rather called Wieliczka or Oświęcim. Szczyrzyc isn't even a location.
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I would like to comment on the rulers of the (arch)bishoprics of the Teutonic and Livonian order, the bishop of Nysa and Plock, as while they aren't on the dynastic map, some were part of a noble family, and should warrant an inclusion.
This should be easier with Erwin Gatz' Die Bischöfe des Heiligen Römischen Reiches 1198 bis 1448. But it is beyong my reach, so I'm limited to open-source and university-access.
From deutsche-biographie
Other sources
This should be easier with Erwin Gatz' Die Bischöfe des Heiligen Römischen Reiches 1198 bis 1448. But it is beyong my reach, so I'm limited to open-source and university-access.
From deutsche-biographie
- Chelmno: Otto von Reval, from an unnamed vassal family, so potentially a noble?
- Samland: Johannes Clare, from a common family.
- Nysa: this was the temporal domain of the bishop of Wrocław. The ruler was Nanker of the noble Kołdów family.
Other sources
- Pomasia: Bertold von Riesenburg. Unknown. My source references Erwin Gatz, that might contain more information. wiag-vocab.adw-goe
- Warmia: Martin Zindal. No mention is made of noble ancestry. Sadly, I found no other source than wikipedia, which references Erwin Gatz. The story is interesting, after the death of the prior bishop, Heinrich Wogenap, the Teutonic order pressured the clergy to elect Martin as bishop. However, the bishop of Riga refused to consecrate him, leaving the throne sort-of-empty for three years, until in December 1337 when the pope asked Martin to resign, and consecrated Hermann of Prague as the next bishop. He found it difficult to reign, as the Teutons and clery did not want this outside appointee, and refused access to Prussia until 1340.
- Courland: Johannes II, mentioned without family name, probably a commoner. Leonid Arbusow. Livlands Geistlichkeit vom Ende des 12 bis Ins 16
- From the same source: Jakob, bishop of Ösel. Also no family name, probably a commoner
- Riga: Friedrich von Pernstein, also von Metlow-Pernstein. he was part of a Moravian noble family. Kurt Forstreuter. Erzbischof Friedrich von Riga(1304-1341)
- Dorpat: Engelbert von Dolen. 'Descends from a vassal family, which had lived in Riga and Dorpat from ca the 13 century.' portal.dnb.de
- Plock: Ruled by Bolesław III, he was under the regency of his uncles Siemowit II and Trojden. All three of these were part of the Piasts
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ignoring the previous person's use of the Weimar German borders which are completely out of this time frame, the other two borders, the borders of the 3rd partition and post Napoleonic Prussia (better known as the German empire's eastern border) are within this games time period and as another defender of the polish internal borders stated "this game is intended to simulate history" while it's unreasonable to expect the ai to perfectly simulate historic events especially with the player making ahistoric actions i feel that having at least German empire borders which not only existed in this time frame but lasted for close to a century afterwards as a possibility for a history simulator is valuable,
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Well my only problem is existence of Latvians at start date.
As Latvian we are tought that modern Latvian culture (and also language) is mix of Livonian and Lettgalian and Curonian cultures, so it is bit wierd to see Latgalian region (whit strongest distinct identity in modern day Latvia, and dialect that they claim can be considered their own language) is labeled as modern Latvian, even tho it didnt exist yet.
If its posible i would suggest small change of Latvian culture to Latgalian one.
Cause the cultural regions of Latvia corispond to difrent ancient tribes and their cultures that influenced regions (Curonian for Kurlan, Livonians for Vidzeme ect) so its wierd to see the distinct Latgalian region labeled as modern day Latvian culture. (i know giving each province its own culture is too much to ask XD, but i would suggest at least renaming modern Latvian culture that hasnt unified yet and exist at that time to Latgalian at least)
Otherwise i love the maps and how much research has gone to often forgotten Baltic region
As Latvian we are tought that modern Latvian culture (and also language) is mix of Livonian and Lettgalian and Curonian cultures, so it is bit wierd to see Latgalian region (whit strongest distinct identity in modern day Latvia, and dialect that they claim can be considered their own language) is labeled as modern Latvian, even tho it didnt exist yet.
If its posible i would suggest small change of Latvian culture to Latgalian one.
Cause the cultural regions of Latvia corispond to difrent ancient tribes and their cultures that influenced regions (Curonian for Kurlan, Livonians for Vidzeme ect) so its wierd to see the distinct Latgalian region labeled as modern day Latvian culture. (i know giving each province its own culture is too much to ask XD, but i would suggest at least renaming modern Latvian culture that hasnt unified yet and exist at that time to Latgalian at least)
Otherwise i love the maps and how much research has gone to often forgotten Baltic region
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Any plans on adding Kuiyavian culture? Inowrocław was main city of Duchy of Kuiyavia for long time, same with bishopric in Kruszwica (both are really close to each other, about 20km).
Central Poland should be ranked to Kuiyavia - like in CK3.
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Change Duchy of Oels to Duchy of Oleśnica, as all of the Silesian Duchies are in Polish other than Opava, which makes sense due to culture and dynasty.
Rename Těšín province to Cieszyn, it's majority Silesian/Polish, while Opavsko (not Opava?) works to be in Czech due to being a majority there.
I don't know the conventions behind what each location gets named by, I'm guessing it's WIP, as there are discrepancies (looking at western Lithuania, Halychia, Volhynia,) but Duchy of Opava should have Czech names at least in the majority areas, or the whole country, as their ruler should be of Czech culture.
Duchy of Nysa shouldn't be a Bohemian vassal yet.
Change Żary location to be in Niederlausitz province and Neumark area.
Rename Těšín province to Cieszyn, it's majority Silesian/Polish, while Opavsko (not Opava?) works to be in Czech due to being a majority there.
I don't know the conventions behind what each location gets named by, I'm guessing it's WIP, as there are discrepancies (looking at western Lithuania, Halychia, Volhynia,) but Duchy of Opava should have Czech names at least in the majority areas, or the whole country, as their ruler should be of Czech culture.
Duchy of Nysa shouldn't be a Bohemian vassal yet.
Change Żary location to be in Niederlausitz province and Neumark area.
In regard to this I advise to make all Silesian majority locations at the start to be in Polish language, whilst maintaining the Silesian culture.
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the congress of Vienna which established the Prussian eastern border happened in 1815 which assuming this game has the same end date as Eu4 is within the time frame of this game and these borders lasted for over a century which while allowing for your comedic comparison also shows the historic relevancy of these borders
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Thats a fine response; at the end of the day it's up to Paradox to decide, and to the very least we have the possibility to modding even if it's not ideal. Sorry if there was some misunderstanding and thank you for not seeing my comments as antagonist, it was never the intention.
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While it looks cool, I think this would make the location of Inowroclaw too small to be included? I'm not against it, though. It could be a nice addition (if it's indeed independent!), but both locations (Gniewkowo and Inowroclaw) would be the size of Dobrzyn.
EDIT: Gniewkowo was actually burned down in 1332, its lands occupied by the Teutonic Order until 1343, and the de-facto capital moving to Szarlej. So, that makes it slightly more difficult to realistically portray in the game, I think.
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Great work! The map looks much better now than before. Just one small remark: The name Halychia looks weird for a tag, I think it should be named Halych instead as this principality is either called principality of Halych or principality of Galicia in English. I guess you don't want to confuse this Galicia with Spanish one, so principality of Halych name could work just fine.
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