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It is pretty accepted fact among linguists that Old East Slavic has diverged into Russian and Ruthenian in XIV century ( so around EU5 game start) and Ruthenian diverged into modern Belarusian and Ukrainian in the end of XVIII century. Single East Slavic language is Crusader Kings timeline thing, it no longer existed for at least overwhelming majority of EU5 timeline.
Ruthenian language - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
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Yes, I agree, but still we at least know that Old Novgorodian had very specific characteristic that made it unique, not only among East Slavic Dialects but among all of Salvic dialects. And it existed in its unique form in 14th century.
That's interesting. Surprisingly, I have never heard this term even though I read a lot on the Rus history as a Ukrainian in all available languages
But I'd probably prefer an option just to make those areas of Muscovite culture.
Księstwa Wierchowskie is very often term both in Polish and Russian historiography (whole region is often called Wierchowczyzna), because those small principalities were in crossfire between Poland-Lithuania and Muscovy. Historically speaking if there ever will be later start dates then Księstwa Wierchowskie/Upper Oka Principalities should be their own international organization, because neither Poland nor Muscovy wanted to deal with one or two dozen vassal microstates, so they were suppose to choose one leader among themselves that will represent all of the small principalities when dealing with their liege.
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That would translate to something like “Upper-ian” or “Upper-ese”.
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There are many "River River" in English when translated from native language (Thames River, Reka River, Upe River etc.), you can make adjectives from them, which translated to native languages would mean just "riverine". In most languages Verkhovian sounds as completely valid proper name. Even in Polish, which is also Slavic, because the only word that has the etymology as "Wierchowskie" and "Wierchowczyzna" is "wierchuszka" which is pejorative term meaning "upper ruling class", a word which is not used often, to be honest. Ohh, and also "wierch" which is "top of a mountain", both word used rarely and you have to think to spot the similarity with Księstwa Wierchowskie - to be honest I spotted the similarities only after you pointed the meaning of Verkhovian.
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Exactly three years after the start of the game, in 1340, the last prince of Galicia, Yuri II Boleslav, was poisoned by local boyars. His wife, Euphemia Gediminid, was drowned in a hole during the riots. That's when the wars for the Galician-Volyn inheritance began.
Claimants to the throne were:
Bolesław of Dobrzyń of the Piast dynasty, son of Anastasia Lvivna and Ziemowit Dobrzynski
Władysław the Hunchback of the Piast dynasty, brother of Bolesław Dobrzynski
Polish king Casimir III of the Piast dynasty
Lithuanian Grand Prince Demetrius of Liubar
Volodymyr Lvovich of Galicia from the Rurikid dynasty(Romanovichi), son of Lev II Yurievich and Olga Romanovna
Volodymyr Lvovich of Galicia died in 1340 defending Lviv. Then in the Galicia-Volyn principality came to power Dmytro Dedko, a Galician boyar who swore allegiance to the Polish and Lithuanian kingdoms, who had previously ruled Galicia for a short time under the rule of Volodymyr Lvovich of Galicia After his death, the wars for the throne continued.
Will we get a presentation of these events?
Will it be possible to avoid poisoning, will it be possible to choose a successor or facilitate his passage to power?
Will Volodymyr Lvovich of Galicia be added? He is often considered legendary, but he appears in Polish chronicles, Lithuanian chronicles. I would really like, and I am certainly not the only one, to restore the kingdom of Ruthenia under the rule of the Rurikids(Romanovichi)
For some reason, I cannot add links
Claimants to the throne were:
Bolesław of Dobrzyń of the Piast dynasty, son of Anastasia Lvivna and Ziemowit Dobrzynski
Władysław the Hunchback of the Piast dynasty, brother of Bolesław Dobrzynski
Polish king Casimir III of the Piast dynasty
Lithuanian Grand Prince Demetrius of Liubar
Volodymyr Lvovich of Galicia from the Rurikid dynasty(Romanovichi), son of Lev II Yurievich and Olga Romanovna
Volodymyr Lvovich of Galicia died in 1340 defending Lviv. Then in the Galicia-Volyn principality came to power Dmytro Dedko, a Galician boyar who swore allegiance to the Polish and Lithuanian kingdoms, who had previously ruled Galicia for a short time under the rule of Volodymyr Lvovich of Galicia After his death, the wars for the throne continued.
Will we get a presentation of these events?
Will it be possible to avoid poisoning, will it be possible to choose a successor or facilitate his passage to power?
Will Volodymyr Lvovich of Galicia be added? He is often considered legendary, but he appears in Polish chronicles, Lithuanian chronicles. I would really like, and I am certainly not the only one, to restore the kingdom of Ruthenia under the rule of the Rurikids(Romanovichi)
For some reason, I cannot add links
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suggestion: all anachronistic Polish names like Radziwiłł Czartoryski, Ostrogski etc should be available only with the formation of a union between poland and lithuania
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Hey I'd like to write my feedback about religion which should be further included in the final game.
First I'd like to ask you to change the name of Romuva to Vidilism, name from CK3. Romuva is modern neo-pagan movement.
Folk Christianity - Christianity as impacted by superstition as practiced by certain geographical Christian groups,[53] and Christianity defined "in cultural terms without reference to the theologies and histories."
Rus and Poland christianized in the late 10th century. The spread of the religion happened exactly opposite to the Roman Empire where small christian communities eventually became the official religon. Even then it took around 3 centuries for christianity to dig in for good. While, new religion in countries which christianized themselves thanks to its neighbours/trading partners (Poland-Bohemia, Rus-Byzantium) was accepted by the upper classes first and then slowly to the folk.
It's difficult perspective because now cities are liberal, anti-religious and progressive in the modern sense. They aren't religious strongholds as in 1300s.
It wasn't for the next 100 years since official conversion of the country when lower classes begun to be christinized. In Poland especially in 1138 the Pagan reaction occured a series of rebellions against the central authority and its most hated visible symbold the church's cross. It almost wiped Poland and central institutions in general, of the history map. Those happaned almost exactly 200 years before the start of the game, only 3-4 generations.
The point in all of this is that it's impossible for 1337 map of central-eastern Europe to be flat-100% Catholic/Orthodox. Upper classes didn't give much of the thought about peasants and peasants didn't give a damn about what current country they were living in. In closed feudal sociaty with clear social boundries religion couldn't spread so quickly.
You my Swedish friends have already included Norse pagan religion in-game Sweden around Uppsala old temple which fell to christians in 1080s
But you haven't yet included Slavic pagan religion, which should be all scattered throughout Slavic countries, but in one special region it should've been included for sure.
Because there is Arkona, a temple-site of organized slavic pagan religion of the Rani slavic tribe at the island of Rugia which fell in 1068.
Temple at Uppsala has no clear archeological site while Arkona has. Uppsala is present only in written sources and its fall is roughly estimated at 1080s. Meanwhile we have exact date for Arkona, 15-16 June 1068.
But idk, 1068 vs 1080s maybe is really a huge difference.
Slavic tribes also continued to raid in viking-style Scandinavia till the 1180s. They sacked capitals of Denmark Rosklide, Norwegian Kanugahella (modern Kunglav).
On one funfact: Slavs won an uprising against HRE in 983 and stopped German crusading conquest for about 200 years. Beside Baltics they were the last European pagan countries.
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Laurentian Codex is a collection of chronicles that includes the oldest extant version of the Primary Chronicle from 1377.
It's one of the main historical sources for slavic pagan pantheon.
Fragment of Primary Chronicla; in Red there's spelled the name of the Slavic Goddess Mokosh
Chronica Slavorum by Helmold about 1150s slavic Wends is an another source.
First I'd like to ask you to change the name of Romuva to Vidilism, name from CK3. Romuva is modern neo-pagan movement.
Folk Christianity - Christianity as impacted by superstition as practiced by certain geographical Christian groups,[53] and Christianity defined "in cultural terms without reference to the theologies and histories."
Rus and Poland christianized in the late 10th century. The spread of the religion happened exactly opposite to the Roman Empire where small christian communities eventually became the official religon. Even then it took around 3 centuries for christianity to dig in for good. While, new religion in countries which christianized themselves thanks to its neighbours/trading partners (Poland-Bohemia, Rus-Byzantium) was accepted by the upper classes first and then slowly to the folk.
It's difficult perspective because now cities are liberal, anti-religious and progressive in the modern sense. They aren't religious strongholds as in 1300s.
It wasn't for the next 100 years since official conversion of the country when lower classes begun to be christinized. In Poland especially in 1138 the Pagan reaction occured a series of rebellions against the central authority and its most hated visible symbold the church's cross. It almost wiped Poland and central institutions in general, of the history map. Those happaned almost exactly 200 years before the start of the game, only 3-4 generations.
The point in all of this is that it's impossible for 1337 map of central-eastern Europe to be flat-100% Catholic/Orthodox. Upper classes didn't give much of the thought about peasants and peasants didn't give a damn about what current country they were living in. In closed feudal sociaty with clear social boundries religion couldn't spread so quickly.
You my Swedish friends have already included Norse pagan religion in-game Sweden around Uppsala old temple which fell to christians in 1080s
But you haven't yet included Slavic pagan religion, which should be all scattered throughout Slavic countries, but in one special region it should've been included for sure.
Because there is Arkona, a temple-site of organized slavic pagan religion of the Rani slavic tribe at the island of Rugia which fell in 1068.
Temple at Uppsala has no clear archeological site while Arkona has. Uppsala is present only in written sources and its fall is roughly estimated at 1080s. Meanwhile we have exact date for Arkona, 15-16 June 1068.
But idk, 1068 vs 1080s maybe is really a huge difference.
Slavic tribes also continued to raid in viking-style Scandinavia till the 1180s. They sacked capitals of Denmark Rosklide, Norwegian Kanugahella (modern Kunglav).
On one funfact: Slavs won an uprising against HRE in 983 and stopped German crusading conquest for about 200 years. Beside Baltics they were the last European pagan countries.
---
Laurentian Codex is a collection of chronicles that includes the oldest extant version of the Primary Chronicle from 1377.
It's one of the main historical sources for slavic pagan pantheon.
Fragment of Primary Chronicla; in Red there's spelled the name of the Slavic Goddess Mokosh
Chronica Slavorum by Helmold about 1150s slavic Wends is an another source.
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I disagree with you that at this point in 1337 there were remnants of pagan slavs in Poland and Pomerania(I also think scandinavia was devoid of them) but i do think itll be interesting putting them in the game for althistoric roleplaying and such(on Rugen for example)
Blind spots happen. I used the two books by Шеков, Александр Владимирович (in wiki references) to acquaint myself with them.That's interesting. Surprisingly, I have never heard this term even though I read a lot on the Rus history as a Ukrainian in all available languages
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There is also scan of old Polish book available for free: https://www.wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/publication/79404/edition/93789/content
I think it's foolish to assume all these people were catholic at time with no public schools and latin schools only for the rich. Remnants of them survived till 15th century.
I think it's foolish to demand that random pagan minorities that do absolutely nothing be added to the game even though there is no evidence that they existed.
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That's why Norse minority in Sweden should be removed too.
I made my post only because paradox included Norse in Sweden which has even less evidence that they existed than slavic pagans.
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hmm shouldnt this be part of Poland, also they havent removed that teutonic-polish war which historically actively ended in 1332 in a truce
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Nope, all Kujawy woth Dobrzyń were returned to Poland in 1342 in treaty of Kalisz. But there was a truce, yes.
However that white coloured Duchy of Inowrocław shouldn't exist. As it was fragmented in 1314 into 3 duchies.
+ ait's a PU of Poland mainly cuz paradox misunderstood Casimir III of Gniewkowo with Casimir III the Great.
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I noticed that Western coastline of Estonia doesn't look like it did during 14th century. Notably there should be fairly sizeable bay in Saaremaa and Noarootsi peninsula should be an island. I marked more noticable differences with light blue on to the map below.
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Book about Ösel-Wiek Bishopric and it's maps
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1351 (edited to be more clearly understandable)
1451
1251:
1351 (edited to be more clearly understandable)
1451
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I also found a comprehensive list of all bishops (names on the left are those who de facto weren't bishops and criss-cross lines mean that Bishopric was during that time prince of HRE). Might be useful as a source. Herman II Osenbrugge is believed to have studied 1291 in Bologna University. If that is true then he died arround 90 years old (that is why it is believed but not 100% known that he studied in Bologna.. it could have been a person with the same name). That would also make him the first highly educated bishops in Ösel-Wiek.
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I found another quite useful map from Estonian History Atlas (Eesti ajaloo atlas). In addition to depicting Ösel-Wiek in detail, it also depicts settlements of Coastal Swedes (orange stripes that I outlined with red).
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