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Tinto Maps #4 Poland, Ruthenia, Baltic Feedback

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Eh, I understand wanting to split cultures but TBH back then there was barely any difference between Czech and Polish, having Greater and Lesser Polish and Masovian and Silesian split is just weird.

(I understand that Silesians are a separate nationality NOW, but that's something that should develop during the game, not already be the case)
 
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ibvfteh said:
Is there any reason for such cultural divisions except consistency with others? Any historical basis for this division? I'm afraid I have to disagree with this split of cultures.
It makes the region much much less unique for me.

I think it was much better when Polish culture was united. It presented an awesome and historic play as a highly culturally unified nation. This is what makes flavour for the game. Small uniquenesses add up. Now it is just like the others but in a different spot. Why it should be like that? Why it can not remain united?

For East Slavic cultures, there is even research about the divisions of the culture. Why was it arbitrarily divided?
The best would be in my eyes to only divide Central on Lithuanian and Russian zones of control. I think this division is much better suited for the game.
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With all reapect, this map is almost a pure fiction. The extend of east Slavs is more or less correct, but the division doesn't make sense and isn't based on anything reasonable. Even the author stated that it is not based on any sources.

It makes sense to divide Polish, as there are no reasons for it to be the same at this point of history. Different founding tribes/peoples, different political entities, big area and lack of migration. It's the same approach as to French or German cultures.
 
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You vs the guy she tells you not to worry about:
1000019598.jpg

Jokes aside who the f*ck came up with the actual name? Imagine being called a Lesser Polish:)
 
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Wildrake said:
Voro and Seto enclaves in Latvia and Pskov are the result of 17-18 century era movement
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The area doesn't correspond to Kraasna and Lutsi but Adzele. The region was settled by Latgalians but the previous inhabitants were Finnic. Not meant to be a big minority, just to represent some granularism and the fact that the Latgalian settlement of the area was still underway. In Marienburg however the minority should be bigger to represent the Leivu dialect.
 
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First let me say: wow.
I'm really happy to see how much effort was put in by the devs to adhear to communtity feedback and I must say this map review turned ot to be great. The amount of new locations is huge and adding lakes, mountains, etc. is looking great on the map. I especially like the colouring of the loctions, looks much better now.
The only thing I might still change are the names of the provinces of Danzig and Tuchel to North and South Pomerelia. I feedbacked this already under original Tinto Maps for Poland, Ruthenia, Baltic. And I still belief it is much more interisting if locations and their provinces are named diffrently. I fine if it is not changed, but curious if this not changed simply because of name lenght or to be more recognizable for the player.
Anyways still very great job and looking forward to other map review and DD about PC.
 
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once again a region gets reworked with over a hundred new locations...

..any chances for an Italy or France rework? Also cause given recent Tinto Talks (mainly the natural harbour one and the Extraterritorial countries ones) there's nothing but more feedback to give
 
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killrocker said:
With all reapect, this map is almost a pure fiction. The extend of east Slavs is more or less correct, but the division doesn't make sense and isn't based on anything reasonable. Even the author stated that it is not based on any sources.

It makes sense to divide Polish, as there are no reasons for it to be the same at this point of history. Different founding tribes/peoples, different political entities, big area and lack of migration. It's the same approach as to French or German cultures.
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Slavic cultures have diverged much later compared to German and French.
"The early Slavic expansion reached Central Europe in the 7th century, and the West Slavic dialects diverged from common Slavic over the following centuries."
Portraying everything equally divided is destroying the historical uniqueness of the place.
Approach for the German and French is a linguistic one. I have not seen any works about linguistical differences of Polish
 
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Looking at this, I must say, I really like these changes! In particular, enhanced location density looks very good. This more gradual change of density from HRE eastward looks pleasant to the eye! Also, splitting "Western Baltic" into "Pruthenian", "Curonian" and "Sudovian" was a really good call!
In my opinion, adding regional varieties to Polish and Ruthenian is also a nice change, and You intrigued me about the way it will work. I can't wait to see what are the changes for culture system will be revealed in a future TT!
Thanks to all Developers for great work!
 
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How about Wielkopolski and Malopolski instead of greater and lesser polish? I know it means the same thing but it looks a lot less weird for non polish speakers to not have a people called "greater" and "lesser" poles
 
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Pavía said:
We've decided to be a bit more consistent with the regions to the west, and we have split the Polish and Ruthenian cultures into their regional variants. We know that there will be a lot of questions regarding how this will work in the game, but we may ask for some patience about it, as we've got some changes planned regarding how it currently works, and we are aiming to show it in a Tinto Talks before the end of the year (and I can't say any more about this yet, sorry!).
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To those questioning the split of cultures, read above.

Is it just me or do people often not read image captions in dev diaries? I always see a lot of comments asking about things that are explained in them, like people questioning why most of Africa has animist religion.
 
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Atromb said:
How about Wielkopolski and Malopolski instead of greater and lesser polish? I know it means the same thing but it looks a lot less weird for non polish speakers to not have a people called "greater" and "lesser" poles
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That would require a lot more cultures to be renamed, as they're in English.
 
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matfer13 said:
Jokes aside who the f*ck came up with the actual name? Imagine being called a Lesser Polish:)
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TBH in the original Polish it's more like "Big Polish" and "Little Polish".

Still, the name was kinda coined because Kraków was the first major conquest of the Piasts, so it was kinda "lesser" to the heartland around Poznań/Gniezno.
 
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- "Baltic" should not be an area but rather a region (or whatever the tier above "area" is, I forgot), including Lithuania, Samogitia and Prussia (plus maybe Ingria and Österland). The area you call "Baltic" corresponds more so to Livonia;
- The "Lithuania" area could probably be split into Aukštaitija, Dainava and Sudovia, but the current arrangement is fine too, as I think those three areas were collectively considered "Lithuania Proper" while Samogitia was more distinct;
- Žemaitija and Aukštaitija literally mean "Lowlands" and "Highlands" iirc so if "Samogitian" and "Aukstaitian" sound like awkward names for cultures (they do), you could just rename them to "Lowland Lithuanian" and "Highland Lithuanian".
- I'd go with "Prussian German" instead of simply "Prussian", in line with the other "Eastern German" cultures. "Pruthenian" is a weird term that I haven't heard of outside of a Paradox context, and could probably be replaced with just "Prussian" should the aforementioned change take place.
- As suggested by others, Estonian culture should be split into North and South;
- I was fine with Ruthenian being a single culture, but I will leave to Ukrainians and Belarusians to criticize the split.
 
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Gianvitus said:
1. I assume Riga Is city and Riga Lettoniæ the archbishopric, right?
2. What culture is the purple minority in Slovakia? Carpathian Germans? And the orange-brown stripes in lesser polish?
3. I see two Silesian counties that are independent: it's correct?
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Could be Armenians in orange, but I don't know.
 
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