The only minor issue is that we already have a culture with this name, representing Kyiv and Pereiaslav.
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Yeah, there could be other instances of the same name being used for both a culture and a cultural group (like, probably, Persian). I wonder whether this will cause any issues with the cultural unification mechanics. If so, it might be necessary to rename the Ruthenian culture to "Kyivan."
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They could change the name to "Poljani" - East Slavic tribe inhabiting the area of Kiev.
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No, absolutely irrelevant for 1337.
In this case Kyivan would be better, as proposed above.
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Either way, it's better than Ruthenians which is a general term for Eastern Slavs - who, culturally united, should be called Ruthenians.
I would be tempted to add Zaporozhyian (or Ulich) culture to the Wild Fields territory - as a small East Slavic group in the south of modern Ukraine.
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Cultures may belong to multiple culture groups, so the best solution would be if we have Ruthenian culture group for all of them, and Belarusian/Ukrainian groups for northern and southern Ruthenian cultures, respectively. So everyone can roleplay and unify what he wants
Polesian culture should belong to both Belarusian and Ukrainian groups. Whoever unifies it first, it then goes to Belarusian or Ukrainian.
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I wonder if dynamic naming is possible.
E.g. the top unifying culture of Muscovy would be Russian (with other guys mere 'West Russians'), while the top unifying culture of Kiev would be Ruthenian (with other guys mere 'North' and 'East Ruthenians').
E.g. the top unifying culture of Muscovy would be Russian (with other guys mere 'West Russians'), while the top unifying culture of Kiev would be Ruthenian (with other guys mere 'North' and 'East Ruthenians').
I hope there will be a choice at least: accept the new name (default, always used by AI) or select a name of one of cultures to be unified.
E.g. someone wants to make the whole Ukraine instantly Volhynian or the whole Russia instantly Novgorodian.
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My small proposal for areas of Ruthenia
Unfortunately, no matter how I tried, I couldn't make the entire area of Polesye work. Its definition is just too big, taking half of Volhynia, and going up to Bryansk
So currently I named only Belarusian parts as Polesia (sorry @Kotyk-durkotyk ), however, an alternative will be to name it Black Ruthenia(debated even if it was in Ruthenia or Russia) and not have this area at all. Or East and West Polesia (with Ovruch and Chornobyl provinces), but that won't align with any divisions
I tried to follow those borders (Minsk didn't work out for my taste)
Unfortunately, no matter how I tried, I couldn't make the entire area of Polesye work. Its definition is just too big, taking half of Volhynia, and going up to Bryansk
So currently I named only Belarusian parts as Polesia (sorry @Kotyk-durkotyk ), however, an alternative will be to name it Black Ruthenia(debated even if it was in Ruthenia or Russia) and not have this area at all. Or East and West Polesia (with Ovruch and Chornobyl provinces), but that won't align with any divisions
I tried to follow those borders (Minsk didn't work out for my taste)
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It's not bad at all too! But RIP Black Ruthenia, I would miss it
The only thing I really strongly oppose is Red Ruthenia including Chelm province and Belz.
In my opinion what historically belonged to the Duchy of Volyn = Volhynia area.
I understand that it was based on the Polish-Lituanian border, but it happened just due to the fact that Poland and Lithuania had some conflicts for the Halychian-Volhynian realm, and Poland simply took that part of Volhynian lands.
Lombardian cities temporarily occupied by Tuscany do not become Tuscanian, and here for me it's the same.
The political border between the duchies prefectly represents the historical border between the Halychian and Volhynian lands and I think that cultures and areas should follow this too.
As well as provinces, because the internal division of Halych and Volhynia is quite well described in chronicles. Like Krypiakevych (1984) has the respective descriptions and sources for every Halychian and Volhynian province in detail:
That is why I am disappointed about Halych and Volhynia have irrelevant province setup too for 1337. The game is not going to be railroaded to repeat the history every time.
Otherwise the map looks good and consistent
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Yeah, I agree it's a debatable topic. Do developers want precise on-time historical accuracy, or existing divisions over the game timeframe? I went from the side of Polish divisions + "cool area borders feel" (I can't disagree that the looks did influence me)It's not bad at all too! But RIP Black Ruthenia
The only thing I really strongly oppose is Red Ruthenia including Chelm province and Belz.
In my opinion what historically belonged to the Duchy of Volyn = Volhynia area.
I understand that it was based on the Polish-Lituanian border, but it happened just due to the fact that Poland and Lithuania had some conflicts for the Halychian-Volhynian realm, and Poland simply took that part of Volhynian lands.
Lombardian cities temporarily occupied by Tuscany do not become Tuscanian, and here for me it's the same.
The political border between the duchies prefectly represents the historical border between the Halychian and Volhynian lands and I think that cultures and areas should follow this too.
As well as provinces, because the internal division of Halych and Volhynia is quite well described in chronicles. Like Krypiakevych (1984) has the respective descriptions and sources for every Halychian and Volhynian province in detail:
View attachment 1279486
That is why I am disappointed about Halych and Volhynia have irrelevant province setup too for 1337. The game is not going to be railroaded to repeat the history every time.
Otherwise the map looks good and consistent
And I believe it is better to portray Red Ruthenia as it was for majority of the game’s timeframe.
I think if developers want to go with your suggestion for Volhynia / Red Ruthenia split, it will also work fine. Here is how it will look
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I feel like these cultures should be unifiable with the kingdom rank though.
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Yeah I agree, they should probably be tech-locked to the age of Absolutism though
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You can unify culture group ONLY if you are empire rank so it is already implemented.
If you are lucky to survive it will take a few hundreds of game years to grow to empire as Kyiv or Halych or even weaker tags.
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Yeah, I know, I'm saying that's silly, maybe west Slavic should be unified at empire rank but Polish should be unifiable at kingdom rank.
Why? Doesn't make any historical sense. I agree an extra barrier is necessary, I would propose you need 100% cultural relations and acceptance with all the other cultures as an example.
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I spent some time with the sources on Ruthenian noble families (flavour Ukrainian name – shliakhta) in Lithuania and Poland in the XIV – XVI centuries and created some name and surname lists for better character creation that can be used for regional Ruthenian flavour and cultures of Ukrainian dialect in the game.
I used the official spelling, described in this post. This way it is consistent with the language, game logic and location names.
I. First names – all Ukrainian cultures
Cultures: Halychian, Volhynian, Polesian, Ruthenian, Severian.
II. Shliakhta families (surnames) with kniaz (duke) title – all Ukrainian cultures
Cultures: Halychian, Volhynian, Polesian, Ruthenian, Severian.
III. Halychian shliakhta families
Culture: Halychian.
IV. Volhynian and Polesian shliakhta families
Cultures: Volhynian, Polesian.
V. Kyivan and Severian shliakhta families
Cultures: Ruthenian (Kyivan), Severian.
VI. Cossack and commoners surnames – all Ukrainian cultures
Cultures: Halychian, Volhynian, Polesian, Ruthenian, Severian.
Feel free to correct any mistakes and enlarge the lists!
I used the official spelling, described in this post. This way it is consistent with the language, game logic and location names.
I. First names – all Ukrainian cultures
Cultures: Halychian, Volhynian, Polesian, Ruthenian, Severian.
Male name | Female name |
|---|---|
| Avhustyn, Adam, Adrian, Anastas, Anatoliy, Andriy, Antoniy, Arkhyp, Artem, Bazhan, Bohdan, Boian, Borys, Boryslav, Danylo, Davyd, Demian, Demyd, Denys, Dmytro, Dorofiy, Fadei, Fedir, Feofan, Filon, Foma, Havrylo, Hennadiy, Heorhiy, Herasym, Hlib, Hnat, Hordiy, Hryhoriy, Hryts, Ihor, Ilarion, Illia, Ipatiy, Irynei, Ivan, Iziaslav, Kasian, Kharyton, Khrystofor, Kindrat, Klyment, Korniy, Kornylo, Kostantyn, Kurylo, Kuzma, Kyrylo, Lavrentiy, Lavryn, Leonid, Les, Lev, Levko, Liubomyr, Liubym, Luka, Lukian, Makar, Marian, Markian, Marko, Martyn, Matviy, Maksym, Modest, Musiy, Mykhailo, Mykola, Mykyta, Myron, Myroslav, Mytrofan, Nazariy, Nestor, Nykodym, Nykyfor, Okhrym, Oleh, Oleksa, Oleksandr, Oleksiy, Oles, Omelian, Onufriy, Orest, Ostap, Panas, Panteleimon, Pavlo, Petro, Potap, Pylyp, Pymen, Radomyr, Radoslav, Rodion, Roman, Rostyslav, Ruslan, Samiylo, Sava, Serafym, Serhiy, Sevastian, Severyn, Spyrydon, Stepan, Sviatopolk, Sviatoslav, Svyryd, Sydor, Symeon, Taras, Teodor, Teofil, Trokhym, Tykhon, Tymofiy, Ustym, Vadym, Vakula, Valentyn, Valerian, Valeriy, Vasyl, Veremiy, Viacheslav, Viktor, Vitaliy, Vladyslav, Vlas, Volodymyr, Vsevolod, Yakiv, Yan, Yarema, Yaromyr, Yaropolk, Yarosh, Yaroslav, Yarylo, Yatsko , Yehor, Yeremia, Yevhen, Yevstafiy, Yevtymiy, Yosyp, Yukhym, Yulian, Yuriy, Yustyn, Zakhar, Zakhariy, Zenon, Zhadan, Zlat, Zorian, Zynoviy | Ahafia, Ahata, Ahlaia, Ahrypyna, Akylyna, Alla, Anastasia, Anisia, Anna, Antonia, Antonina, Bazhana, Bohdana, Bohuslava, Bozhena, Dana, Daria, Daryna, Dorofea, Eva, Faina, Fekla, Feodora, Feodosia, Fevronia, Hafia, Halyna, Hanna, Hlafira, Hlykeria, Horpyna, Ia, Ilaria, Inna, Irma, Iryna, Isydora, Ivanna, Kalyna, Kateryna, Khrystyna, Kira, Klavdia, Ksenia, Lada, Larysa, Lidia, Lina, Liubomyra, Liubov, Liudmyla, Lukyna, Mahdalyna, Maia, Malva, Maria, Mariana, Marta, Maryna, Matrona, Mavka, Melania, Milana, Myroslava, Nadia, Nastasia, Natalia, Nelia, Neonila, Nina, Nonna, Odarka, Oksana, Olena, Olesia, Olexandra, Olha, Oryna, Orysia, Paraskeva, Pelahia, Polina, Rada, Radoslava, Raisa, Romana, Roxana, Roxolana, Ruta, Sarah, Seraphim, Severyna, Sofia, Solomia, Stefania, Svetlana, Taisa, Tamara, Tereza, Tetiana, Tina, Tsvitana, Uliana, Ustyna, Valentyna, Valeria, Varvara, Vasylyna, Viktoria, Vira, Vita, Yana, Yaroslava, Yaryna, Yefrosynia, Yelyzaveta, Yevdokia, Yevhenia, Yevpraksia, Yevstafia, Yordana, Yukhymia, Yulia, Yustyna, Zhadana, Zhanna, Zlata, Zoia, Zoreslava, Zoriana, Zynaida, Zynovia |
II. Shliakhta families (surnames) with kniaz (duke) title – all Ukrainian cultures
Cultures: Halychian, Volhynian, Polesian, Ruthenian, Severian.
- Males have kniaz title.
- Married females have kniahynia title (actually a kniaz's wife).
- Single females have kniazhna title (actually a kniaz's daughter).
- Probably can be used for Belarusian cultures too, but I do not know Belarusian transliteration rules.
Male kniaz family name | Female kniahynia/kniazhna family name |
|---|---|
| Chartoryiskyi, Chetvertynskyi, Derevynskyi, Hlynskyi, Kapusta, Koretskyi, Kozeka, Liubomyrskyi, Lyzynos, Makarevych, Mosalskyi, Nesvitskyi, Osovytskyi, Ostrozkyi, Polubenskyi, Porytskyi, Pronskyi, Puzyna, Ruzhynskyi, Sanhushko, Senskyi, Smaha, Sokolskyi, Sokyra, Trubetskyi, Velytskyi, Voronetskyi, Vronskyi, Vyshnevetskyi, Yablonovskyi, Zaslavskyi, Zbarazkyi | Chartoryiska, Chetvertynska, Derevynska, Hlynska, Kapusta, Koretska, Kozeka, Liubomyrska, Lyzynos, Makarevych, Mosalska, Nesvitska, Osovytska, Ostrozka, Polubenska, Porytska, Pronska, Puzyna, Ruzhynska, Sanhushko, Senska, Smaha, Sokolska, Sokyra, Trubetska, Velytska, Voronetska, Vronska, Vyshnevetska, Yablonovska, Zaslavska, Zbarazka |
III. Halychian shliakhta families
Culture: Halychian.
Male family name, Halychian | Female family name, Halychian |
|---|---|
| Babynskyi, Bachynskyi, Balytskyi, Berezovskyi, Berynda, Bilyk, Boiarskyi, Boreiko, Borsnych, Brodovskyi, Buchatskyi, Burda, Bybelskyi, Bylynskyi, Chaikovskyi, Chemer, Chortkovych, Danslavych, Danylovych, Dedko, Demydetskyi, Diadkovych, Didushytskyi, Dobrianskyi, Drobyshevych, Dubrovskyi, Halka, Holovko, Holynskyi, Horaiskyi, Horbachovskyi, Horodynskyi, Hrabovetskyi, Hrudkovych, Ilinskyi, Ilnytskyi, Iskra, Khlopetskyi, Khodorovskyi, Khotymyrskyi, Klius, Kmita, Knehynetskyi, Kolodrub, Kopetskyi, Kormanytskyi, Kormylchych, Korytko, Kovalevskyi, Krynytskyi, Kulchytskyi, Kustra, Kyshka, Lozynskyi, Luchynskyi, Lytynskyi, Markevych, Matkovskyi, Medynskyi, Meleshko, Monastyrskyi, Moshonchych, Nahorets, Oratovskyi, Pidhorodetskyi, Pidlisetskyi, Pidvysotskyi, Pletenetskyi, Pohoretskyi, Popel, Porokhnytskyi, Presluzhych, Proskura, Protsovych, Sahaidachnyi, Seletskyi, Semashko, Seniuta, Senkovych, Sheptytskyi, Sianitskyi, Solonynka, Strumylo, Stupnytskyi, Suliatytskyi, Sydorskyi, Tarapatych, Tatomyr, Teptiukovych, Terletskyi, Trunkovych, Tryzna, Turianskyi, Uhornytskyi, Uniatytskyi, Uruskyi, Volchkovych, Volokh, Voznesenskyi, Vyhovskyi, Vysochanskyi, Vytvytskyi, Yasenytskyi , Yavorskyi, Yosypovych, Zaets, Zhurakivskyi | Babynska, Bachynska, Balytska, Berezovska, Berynda, Bilyk, Boiarska, Boreiko, Borsnych, Brodovska, Buchatska, Burda, Bybelska, Bylynska, Chaikovska, Chemer, Chortkovych, Danslavych, Danylovych, Dedko, Demydetska, Diadkovych, Didushytska, Dobrianska, Drobyshevych, Dubrovska, Halka, Holovko, Holynska, Horaiska, Horbachovska, Horodynska, Hrabovetska, Hrudkovych, Ilinska, Ilnytska, Iskra, Khlopetska, Khodorovska, Khotymyrska, Klius, Kmita, Knehynetska, Kolodrub, Kopetska, Kormanytska, Kormylchych, Korytko, Kovalevska, Krynytska, Kulchytska, Kustra, Kyshka, Lozynska, Luchynska, Lytynska, Markevych, Matkovska, Medynska, Meleshko, Monastyrska, Moshonchych, Nahorets, Oratovska, Pidhorodetska, Pidlisetska, Pidvysotska, Pletenetska, Pohoretska, Popel, Porokhnytska, Presluzhych, Proskura, Protsovych, Sahaidachna, Seletska, Semashko, Seniuta, Senkovych, Sheptytska, Sianitska, Solonynka, Strumylo, Stupnytska, Suliatytska, Sydorska, Tarapatych, Tatomyr, Teptiukovych, Terletska, Trunkovych, Tryzna, Turianska, Uhornytska, Uniatytska, Uruska, Volchkovych, Volokh, Voznesenska, Vyhovska, Vysochanska, Vytvytska, Yasenytska , Yavorska, Yosypovych, Zaets, Zhurakivska |
IV. Volhynian and Polesian shliakhta families
Cultures: Volhynian, Polesian.
- A lot of them can be probably used for Belarusian cultures too, but I do not know Belarusian transliteration rules.
Male family name, Volhynian + Polesian | Female family name, Volhynian + Polesian |
|---|---|
| Babynskyi, Berezhetskyi, Berezovskyi, Bilokrynytskyi, Bohovitniy, Bohushevskyi, Boiarskyi, Bokiy, Bolbas, Boreiko, Borzobohatko, Branytskyi, Chaplych, Cherniavskyi, Chubynskyi, Danylovych, Dederko, Denyska, Drobysh, Dryvynskyi, Dubrovskyi, Dudynskyi, Dutyi, Holovnia, Horain, Horodyskyi, Hrushetskyi, Hulevych, Hulianytskyi, Hurka, Ilinskyi, Kaidash, Kharytonovych, Khmara, Khmarnyi, Khodko, Khomiak, Khotetskyi, Khotkevych, Khrebtovych, Klenskyi, Kobakovych, Kostiushko, Kovalevskyi, Kozynskyi, Krasovskyi, Kropyva, Krupetskyi, Kunytskyi, Kyrdei, Kyshka, Kysil, Labunskyi, Leshnytskyi, Lidykhivskyi, Losiatynskyi, Lozynskyi, Ludvyskyi, Lytynskyi, Makosiy, Malynskyi, Markevych, Meleshko, Mukosiy, Mykytytskyi, Mynkivskyi, Myshko, Nepytushchyi, Neshevych, Obukhovych, Olizarovych, Popelynskyi, Prokshych, Proskura, Puzovskyi, Romankovych, Rotkovych, Rusyn, Semashko, Seniuta, Serbyn, Sholukh, Shyloviy, Shyrynda, Stavetskyi, Synytskyi, Teta, Tolkachevych, Tovmach, Tryzna, Tsatych, Vasentsevych, Verbytskyi, Volchkovych, Volkovytskyi, Vorona, Voronovych, Vovk, Voznesenskyi, Vyhovskyi, Vyshnevskyi, Vytvytskyi, Yalovyi, Yarmolynskyi, Yaroshynskyi, Yelovych, Yelovytskyi, Zahorovskyi, Zaiets, Zbrannyi, Zhabokrytskyi, Zhaskovskyi | Babynska, Berezhetska, Berezovska, Bilokrynytska, Bohovitnia, Bohushevska, Boiarska, Bokiy, Bolbas, Boreiko, Borzobohatko, Branytska, Chaplych, Cherniavska, Chubynska, Danylovych, Dederko, Denyska, Drobysh, Dryvynska, Dubrovska, Dudynska, Duta, Holovnia, Horaina, Horodyska, Hrushetska, Hulevych, Hulianytska, Hurka, Ilinska, Kaidash, Kharytonovych, Khmara, Khmarna, Khodko, Khomiak, Khotetska, Khotkevych, Khrebtovych, Klenska, Kobakovych, Kostiushko, Kovalevska, Kozynska, Krasovska, Kropyva, Krupetska, Kunytska, Kyrdei, Kyshka, Kysil, Labunska, Leshnytska, Lidykhivska, Losiatynska, Lozynska, Ludvyska, Lytynska, Makosiy, Malynska, Markevych, Meleshko, Mukosiy, Mykytytska, Mynkivska, Myshko, Nepytushcha, Neshevych, Obukhovych, Olizarovych, Popelynska, Prokshych, Proskura, Puzovska, Romankovych, Rotkovych, Rusyna, Semashko, Seniuta, Serbyna, Sholukh, Shyloviy, Shyrynda, Stavetska, Synytska, Teta, Tolkachevych, Tovmach, Tryzna, Tsatych, Vasentsevych, Verbytska, Volchkovych, Volkovytska, Vorona, Voronovych, Vovk, Voznesenska, Vyhovska, Vyshnevska, Vytvytska, Yalova, Yarmolynska, Yaroshynska , Yelovych, Yelovytska, Zahorovska, Zaiets, Zbranna, Zhabokrytska, Zhaskovska |
V. Kyivan and Severian shliakhta families
Cultures: Ruthenian (Kyivan), Severian.
Male family name, Ruthenian (Kyivan) + Severian | Female family name, Ruthenian (Kyivan) + Severian |
|---|---|
| Andrievych, Babynskyi, Baibuza, Bakurynskyi, Balaban, Balyk, Berezovskyi, Bezborodko, Bohun, Boiarskyi, Boreiko, Butovych, Bykovskyi, Chaikovskyi, Chornobylskyi, Churylo, Danylovych, Dashkovych, Didovych, Donets, Doroshenko, Dubrovskyi, Dudyna, Halahan, Haponovych, Hladkyi, Holub, Hornostai, Horodetskyi, Hrusha, Hrynkevych, Hulak, Hulevych, Ilinskyi, Kalenyk, Kandyba, Kevlych, Khaletskyi, Khmeletskyi, Khmelnytskyi, Khomyn, Kolontai, Kosevych, Kotovych, Kovalevskyi, Kuliabko, Kuntsevych, Kysil, Laska, Lenkovych, Loza, Lozynskyi, Lytynskyi, Lyzohub, Markevych, Mazepa, Meleshko, Mikhnovskyi, Mohyla, Motovylo, Myronovskyi, Myrovych, Nechai, Nemyrovych, Nemyrych, Obukhovych, Olekhnovych, Olizar, Orlyk, Paskevych, Paskevych, Pats, Pavsha, Pisochynskyi, Poloz, Polubotok, Potiy, Proskura, Pylypovskyi, Rai, Rodzianko, Rozumovskyi, Rusanovskyi, Sakovych, Samoilovych, Sapiha, Semashko, Seniuta, Seretetskyi, Shcherban, Skoropadskyi, Smotrytskyi, Sobol, Stetskyi, Storozhenko, Strybel, Sulyma, Suryna, Sviatskyi, Tolkach, Tretiak, Trypilskyi, Tryzna, Tysha, Tyshkevych, Ushatskyi, Vaskovych, Vernadskyi, Veshniak, Volchkovych, Volovych, Voznesenskyi, Vyhovskyi, Vytvytskyi, Yeleiskyi, Yelets, Yursha , Zabila, Zhoravka, Zhurakivskyi, Zhuravynskyi, Znachko | Andrievych, Babynska, Baibuza, Bakurynska, Balaban, Balyk, Berezovska, Bezborodko, Bohun, Boiarska, Boreiko, Butovych, Bykovska, Chaikovska, Chornobylska, Churylo, Danylovych, Dashkovych, Didovych, Donets, Doroshenko, Dubrovska, Dudyna, Halahan, Haponovych, Hladka, Holub, Hornostai, Horodetska, Hrusha, Hrynkevych, Hulak, Hulevych, Ilinska, Kalenyk, Kandyba, Kevlych, Khaletska, Khmeletska, Khmelnytska, Khomyn, Kolontai, Kosevych, Kotovych, Kovalevska, Kuliabko, Kuntsevych, Kysil, Laska, Lenkovych, Loza, Lozynska, Lytynska, Lyzohub, Markevych, Mazepa, Meleshko, Mikhnovska, Mohyla, Motovylo, Myronovska, Myrovych, Nechai, Nemyrovych, Nemyrych, Obukhovych, Olekhnovych, Olizar, Orlyk, Paskevych, Paskevych, Pats, Pavsha, Pisochynska, Poloz, Polubotok, Potiy, Proskura, Pylypovska, Rai, Rodzianko, Rozumovska, Rusanovska, Sakovych, Samoilovych, Sapiha, Semashko, Seniuta, Seretetska, Shcherban, Skoropadska, Smotrytska, Sobol, Stetska, Storozhenko, Strybel, Sulyma, Suryna, Sviatska, Tolkach, Tretiak, Trypilska, Tryzna, Tysha, Tyshkevych, Ushatska, Vaskovych, Vernadska, Veshniak, Volchkovych, Volovych, Voznesenska, Vyhovska, Vytvytska, Yeleiska, Yelets, Yursha , Zabila, Zhoravka, Zhurakivska, Zhuravynska, Znachko |
VI. Cossack and commoners surnames – all Ukrainian cultures
Cultures: Halychian, Volhynian, Polesian, Ruthenian, Severian.
- Cossack leaders were often from shliakhta, so they can use any noble surname.
Male surname, all commoners | Female surname, all commoners |
|---|---|
| Andriychuk, Andriyenko, Babenko, Babich, Babiy, Bandura, Bida, Bilan, Bilyi, Bilyk, Boichenko, Boichuk, Boiko, Bondar, Bondarchuk, Bondarenko, Buhai, Chaika, Chub, Chuiko, Chumak, Danylenko, Danyliuk, Danylko, Demianenko, Demydenko, Denysenko, Didenko, Dihtiar, Dmytrenko, Dmytruk, Dub, Dubohryz, Dubyna, Hariachyi, Harkusha, Harmash, Harmatiy, Havrylenko, Havryliuk, Holopup, Holovan, Holovatyi, Holovko, Holub, Honchar, Honcharenko, Honcharuk, Horbonis, Hordienko, Hordiychuk, Horobets, Hryhorchuk, Hryhorenko, Hrytsai, Hrytsenko, Hrytsuk, Hrytsyna, Huba, Hubenko, Hunko, Hurzhiy, Hutsul, Ivanchuk, Ivanenko, Kachka, Kasianenko, Khmara, Kholodnyi, Khyzhniak, Kit, Klymenko, Kopach, Kosach, Kosenko, Kosyi, Koval, Kovalchuk, Kovalenko, Kovtun, Kozub, Kramar, Kramarenko, Kravchenko, Kravchuk, Kravets, Krut, Kuibida, Kulyk, Kyrylchuk, Kyrylenko, Lantukh, Lehkostup, Leleka, Leonenko, Liakh, Liashko, Lukianchuk, Lukianenko, Lutsenko, Lytvyn, Lytvynenko, Makoviy, Malyna, Melnychenko, Melnychuk, Melnyk, Miniailo, Mnohohrishnyi, Moroz, Motsnyi, Movchan, Musienko, Mykhailenko, Mykhailiuk, Nahnybida, Nechytailo, Nedaivoda, Neizhkhlib, Neizhmak, Neizhpapa, Neizhsalo, Nelyiborshch, Nemyria, Nepyivoda, Nosan, Nosenko, Okhrimenko, Oliynyk, Opanasenko, Opanasiuk, Ovsienko, Paliy, Palyvoda, Panchenko, Parkhomenko, Pavlenko, Perebyinis, Petrenko, Petrychenko, Piddubnyi, Pidopryhora, Plaksiy, Pobihailo, Pokotylo, Poluliakh, Popenko, Porokhnia, Potapenko, Potapenko, Priadun, Prokhvatylo, Prykhodko, Pushkar, Ratushnyi, Riabchenko, Riabchuk, Riabko, Ruban, Rudenko, Rudyi, Sahaidak, Salovoz, Savchenko, Savchuk, Selezen, Serdiuk, Shevchenko, Shevchuk, Shvets, Shkapa, Shkapenko, Shpak, Shram, Shramenko, Shvydkyi, Skliar, Slynko, Snihur, Solodkyi, Solomakha, Solovei, Soroka, Sotnyk, Sova, Stadniuk, Stelmakh, Stetsenko, Stohniy, Storozh, Storozhenko, Strikha, Sudarenko, Sukhyi, Svystun, Svyta, Sych, Symonenko, Synytsia, Tarasenko, Tarasiuk, Teteria, Tiahnybok, Tkach, Tkachenko, Tkachuk, Triasylo, Trokhymenko, Turchyn, Tymoshenko, Tysha, Tyshchenko, Tytarenko, Ubyivovk, Ustymenko, Vakulenko, Vasylchuk, Vasylenko, Vasylevych, Vdovychenko, Vernydub, Vernyhora, Viter, Vitrenko, Vlasenko, Volokh, Voron, Vorona, Voronchuk, Voronenko, Voronyi, Voznyi, Yaremchuk, Yaremenko, Yarmolenko, Yarmoliuk, Yaroshenko, Yurchenko, Zakharchenko, Zasukha, Zhupan, Zinchenko, Zub, Zuban, Zyma | Andriychuk, Andriyenko, Babenko, Babich, Babiy, Bandura, Bida, Bila, Bilan, Bilyk, Boichenko, Boichuk, Boiko, Bondar, Bondarchuk, Bondarenko, Buhai, Chaika, Chub, Chuiko, Chumak, Danylenko, Danyliuk, Danylko,, Demianenko, Demydenko, Denysenko, Didenko, Dihtiar, Dmytrenko, Dmytruk, Dub, Dubohryz, Dubyna, Hariacha, Harkusha, Harmash, Harmatiy, Havrylenko, Havryliuk, Holopup, Holovan, Holovata, Holovko, Holub, Honchar, Honcharenko, Honcharuk, Horbonis, Hordienko, Hordiychuk, Horobets, Hryhorchuk, Hryhorenko, Hrytsai, Hrytsenko, Hrytsuk, Hrytsyna, Huba, Hubenko, Hunko, Hurzhiy, Hutsul, Ivanchuk, Ivanenko, Kachka, Kasianenko, Khmara, Kholodna, Khyzhniak, Kit, Klymenko, Kopach, Kosa, Kosach, Kosenko, Koval, Kovalchuk, Kovalenko, Kovtun, Kozub, Kramar, Kramarenko, Kravchenko, Kravchuk, Kravets, Krut, Kuibida, Kulyk, Kyrylchuk, Kyrylenko, Lantukh, Lehkostup, Leleka, Leonenko, Liakh, Liashko, Lukianchuk, Lukianenko, Lutsenko, Lytvyn, Lytvynenko, Makoviy, Malyna, Melnychenko, Melnychuk, Melnyk, Miniailo, Mnohohrishna, Moroz, Motsna, Movchan, Musienko, Mykhailenko, Mykhailiuk, Nahnybida, Nechytailo, Nedaivoda, Neizhkhlib, Neizhmak, Neizhpapa, Neizhsalo, Nelyiborshch, Nemyria, Nepyivoda, Nosan, Nosenko, Okhrimenko, Oliynyk, Opanasenko, Opanasiuk, Ovsienko, Paliy, Palyvoda, Panchenko, Parkhomenko, Pavlenko, Perebyinis, Petrenko, Petrychenko, Piddubna, Pidopryhora, Plaksiy, Pobihailo, Pokotylo, Poluliakh, Popenko, Porokhnia, Potapenko, Potapenko, Priadun, Prokhvatylo, Prykhodko, Pushkar, Ratushna, Riabchenko, Riabchuk, Riabko, Ruban, Ruda, Rudenko, Sahaidak, Salovoz, Savchenko, Savchuk, Selezen, Serdiuk, Shevchenko, Shevchuk, Shvets, Shkapa, Shkapenko, Shpak, Shram, Shramenko, Shvydka, Skliar, Slynko, Snihur, Solodka, Solomakha, Solovei, Soroka, Sotnyk, Sova, Stadniuk, Stelmakh, Stetsenko, Stohniy, Storozh, Storozhenko, Strikha, Sudarenko, Sukha, Svystun, Svyta, Sych, Symonenko, Synytsia, Tarasenko, Tarasiuk, Teteria, Tiahnybok, Tkach, Tkachenko, Tkachuk, Triasylo, Trokhymenko, Turchyn, Tymoshenko, Tysha, Tyshchenko, Tytarenko, Ubyivovk, Ustymenko, Vakulenko, Vasylchuk, Vasylenko, Vasylevych, Vdovychenko, Vernydub, Vernyhora, Viter, Vitrenko, Vlasenko, Volokh, Voron, Vorona, Voronchuk, Voronenko, Vozna, Yaremchuk, Yaremenko, Yarmolenko, Yarmoliuk, Yaroshenko, Yurchenko, Zakharchenko, Zasukha, Zhupan, Zinchenko, Zub, Zuban, Zyma |
Feel free to correct any mistakes and enlarge the lists!
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Nice lists! Havimg actual families related to specific cultures is much more flavorful than EU4.
Maybe knaz sunames may be also Polotsk and Smolensk cultures because they were important in all Lithuania.
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Sure, but for those cultures they would be transliterated in different dialect(s). That would nicely represent different branches of those families
But I am not aware of exact spelling rules for them.
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Hey @Pavía, @SaintDaveUK could I ask you to show the flags of Chernihiv and Novhorod-Siverskyi, please?
*I saw Kyiv, Volhynia and Halych flags in one screenshot already after having prepared this post, Kyiv and Volhynia flags look perfect, and for Halych I would either add a mountain in front of the lion or use a jackdaw to make that flag more unique.
I would like to make some suggestions for Ruthenian-Ukrainian principalities. Both present at the start date in 1337 and formables/releasables (both confirmed and hope-to-see).
PRESENT IN 1337:
POSSIBLE (HOPEFULLY) FORMABLES (F) OR RELEASABLES (R):
___________________________________________________
Now more in detail
I. KYIV
Quite an obvious choice, Archangel Michael has been the symbol of the Duchy of Kyiv, Kyivan land and Kyiv voievodship for almost 1000 years.
Luckily, we even have examples from European armorials from the XIV – XV centuries.
_________________
II. HALYCH
As long as we have separate Halych and Volhynian duchies, a jackdaw has to be the symbol of the separate Duchy of Halych or Halych land.
Luckily, we also have examples from numerous Polish sources, works of art, armorials etc.
_________________
III. VOLHYNIA
Another obvious coat of arms, white cross on a red shield. The only question is the shape. The first one seems to be a bit more unique and distinguishable from hundreds of other crosses.
_________________
IV. CHERNIHIV
It is a bit more complicated with Chernihiv.
_________________
V. NOVHOROD-SIVERSKYI
The most complicated case.
_________________
VI. HALYCH-VOLHYNIA (if formable, hope to see that)
Obvious choice of the Ruthenian Lion if we can form Halych-Volhynia (I hope so).
More common version is a lion climbing a mountain, which is my preference, because it makes it more distinguishable. Luckily, widely presented in European armorials quite close to the start date. Also with the mountain it is far more recognisable and distinguishable.
_________________
VII. RUTHENIA (formable)
In case it represents some kind of southern/western part of the Kyivan Rus, then a Rurikid trident would be an obvious choice, either that of Volodymyr the Great or Yaroslav the Wise. Colours can vary.
_________________
VIII. THE COSSACK HETMANATE (has to be formable, hope to see that!)
An obvious choice, a cossack with a musket was the symbol of Zaporozhian otamans as well as the Cossack Hetmanate after being officially formed.
Well described in numerous documents.
_________________
IX. POSSIBLE RELEASABLES - ALL TOGETHER PODOLIA, BELZ, PEREMYSHL, ZAPORIZHIAN SICH
Obvious choices, all their symbols were quite well-documented.
_________________
Hope to see all the formables and releasables possible in the game because they can provide different ways of playstyle.
*I saw Kyiv, Volhynia and Halych flags in one screenshot already after having prepared this post, Kyiv and Volhynia flags look perfect, and for Halych I would either add a mountain in front of the lion or use a jackdaw to make that flag more unique.
I would like to make some suggestions for Ruthenian-Ukrainian principalities. Both present at the start date in 1337 and formables/releasables (both confirmed and hope-to-see).
PRESENT IN 1337:
Options | Kyiv | Halych | Volhynia | Chernihiv | Novhorod-Siverskyi |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Option 1 | 
| 
| 
| 
| 
(colours may vary) |
Option 2 | No alternatives | 
| 
| 
(colours may vary) | 
(colours may vary) |
POSSIBLE (HOPEFULLY) FORMABLES (F) OR RELEASABLES (R):
Options | Halych- Volhynia (F) | Ruthenia (F) | Cossack Hetmanate (F) | Podolia (R) | Belz (R) | Peremyshl (R) | Zaporizhian Sich (R, ABC ?) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Option 1 |
| 
(colours may vary) | 
| 
| 
| 
| 
|
Option 2 | 
| 
(colours may vary) | No alternatives | 
| No alternatives | No alternatives | No alternatives |
___________________________________________________
Now more in detail
I. KYIV
Quite an obvious choice, Archangel Michael has been the symbol of the Duchy of Kyiv, Kyivan land and Kyiv voievodship for almost 1000 years.
Luckily, we even have examples from European armorials from the XIV – XV centuries.
Suggestion | XI century Kyivan coin | Example 1 | Example 2 |
|---|---|---|---|
|
| 
| 
| 
|
_________________
II. HALYCH
As long as we have separate Halych and Volhynian duchies, a jackdaw has to be the symbol of the separate Duchy of Halych or Halych land.
Luckily, we also have examples from numerous Polish sources, works of art, armorials etc.
Suggestion | Example 1 | Example 2 | Example 3 | Rus example 1 (X – XII centuries) | Rus example 2 (X – XII centuries) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
| 
| 
| 
| 
| 
|
_________________
III. VOLHYNIA
Another obvious coat of arms, white cross on a red shield. The only question is the shape. The first one seems to be a bit more unique and distinguishable from hundreds of other crosses.
Suggestion | Alternative suggestion | Example 1 Cross on the flag (1313) | Example 2 |
|---|---|---|---|
|
|
| 
| 
|
_________________
IV. CHERNIHIV
It is a bit more complicated with Chernihiv.
- According to some chronicles the syblol of the Duchy of Chrenihiv was a black eagle, but no images from the Rus period found, only from the post XVII century.
- In 2020 archaelogists found in Chernihiv a piece of jewellery with a trident from the XI century, that belonged to the family of the prominent prince of Chernihiv, Mstyslav the Brave. This symbol may now become a new symbol of Chernihiv region.
Suggestion | Alternative suggestion | Another alternative suggestion (more moderm-day) | Mstyslav the Brave trident found in Chernihiv in 2020 | Chernihiv Voievodship |
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
|
(colours may vary) | 
| 
| 
|
_________________
V. NOVHOROD-SIVERSKYI
The most complicated case.
- All available images are quite short-term and there is no clear pattern.
- The suggested image with a wall is a reconstruction from some mentions from the Lithuanian or Polish sources before a tower appeared on the CoA.
- Alternative option is using a general Olhovychi sign (a local branch of the Rurikids) because they ruled the Severian duchies since the XI century. Colours can be different. Olhovychi coins are attached (found in the Chernihiv region).
- To avoid similarity, if Chernihiv has its black eagle, this could be the main suggestion.
- Also horses, angels were on some local rulers' seals and CoA of different periods.
Suggestion | Alternative suggestion | Modern CoA since the XVII century | Rurikid Olhovychi coin 1 | Rurikid Olhovychi coin 2 | Korybut seal | Severia earlier | Severia later |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
(colours may vary) |
(colours may vary) | 
| 
| 
| 
| 
| 
|
_________________
VI. HALYCH-VOLHYNIA (if formable, hope to see that)
Obvious choice of the Ruthenian Lion if we can form Halych-Volhynia (I hope so).
More common version is a lion climbing a mountain, which is my preference, because it makes it more distinguishable. Luckily, widely presented in European armorials quite close to the start date. Also with the mountain it is far more recognisable and distinguishable.
Suggestion | Alternative suggestion | Example 1 | Example 2 |
|---|---|---|---|
|
|
| 
| 
|
_________________
VII. RUTHENIA (formable)
In case it represents some kind of southern/western part of the Kyivan Rus, then a Rurikid trident would be an obvious choice, either that of Volodymyr the Great or Yaroslav the Wise. Colours can vary.
Suggestion | Alternative suggestion | Yaroslav the Wise coin (XI century) | Volodymyr the Great coin (X – XI centtury) |
|---|---|---|---|
|
(colours may vary) |
(colours may vary) | 
| 
|
_________________
VIII. THE COSSACK HETMANATE (has to be formable, hope to see that!)
An obvious choice, a cossack with a musket was the symbol of Zaporozhian otamans as well as the Cossack Hetmanate after being officially formed.
Well described in numerous documents.
Suggestion | Example 1 (1592) | Example 2 (1622) | Example 3 (1710) |
|---|---|---|---|
|
(colours may slightly vary) | 
| 
| 
|
_________________
IX. POSSIBLE RELEASABLES - ALL TOGETHER PODOLIA, BELZ, PEREMYSHL, ZAPORIZHIAN SICH
Obvious choices, all their symbols were quite well-documented.
| Podolia | Belz | Peremyshl | Zaporizhian Sich |
|---|---|---|---|---|
Suggestion |
(background may be red) |
|
|
|
Example | 
| 
| 
| 
|
_________________
Hope to see all the formables and releasables possible in the game because they can provide different ways of playstyle.
Last edited:
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Gonna repost here:
Now, a remark regarding Novhorod-Siverskyi. It seems that the few sources we have suggest that its coat of arms was very similar to the one in Volhynia (i.e., a silver cross on a red field).
This symbol is from Armorial Lyncenich (XV century) page 243 , marked as "Nowengrote"
This cross can also be seen on the coins of Kaributas, prince of Novhorod-Siverskyi from the 14th century. Most likely, this pattern was put into use by the Olhovychi from the 12th century onward.Example (although perhaps not a very clear one) below:
Seal of Prince Rostyslav Yaroslavych from the end of the 12th century.
Now, a remark regarding Novhorod-Siverskyi. It seems that the few sources we have suggest that its coat of arms was very similar to the one in Volhynia (i.e., a silver cross on a red field).
This symbol is from Armorial Lyncenich (XV century) page 243 , marked as "Nowengrote"
This cross can also be seen on the coins of Kaributas, prince of Novhorod-Siverskyi from the 14th century. Most likely, this pattern was put into use by the Olhovychi from the 12th century onward.Example (although perhaps not a very clear one) below:
Seal of Prince Rostyslav Yaroslavych from the end of the 12th century.
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