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I might have missed it if it was mentioned in some previous dev diary, but does the introduction of Mesoamerican crops(the potato specifically) to Europe lead to any sort of large scale population boom, or more specifically for this thread a quite noticeable population growth to mountanous regions such as Serbia, Bosnia, Albania etc.? Is it possible to simulate this late game through either trade, colonization or adoption of cultivating the crop in your provinces? For example i know Serbias population in the 19th cenutry nearly doubled, and while there were many factors to it, the main one was due to agricultural improvements like potato cultivation.
I might have missed it if it was mentioned in some previous dev diary, but does the introduction of Mesoamerican crops(the potato specifically) to Europe lead to any sort of large scale population boom, or more specifically for this thread a quite noticeable population growth to mountanous regions such as Serbia, Bosnia, Albania etc.? Is it possible to simulate this late game through either trade, colonization or adoption of cultivating the crop in your provinces? For example i know Serbias population in the 19th cenutry nearly doubled, and while there were many factors to it, the main one was due to agricultural improvements like potato cultivation.
It's very likely since that sort of thing happened all over Europe, not just specifically in the Balkans. We probably won't see any hard coded events such as some specific province getting a specific modifier.
I might have missed it if it was mentioned in some previous dev diary, but does the introduction of Mesoamerican crops(the potato specifically) to Europe lead to any sort of large scale population boom, or more specifically for this thread a quite noticeable population growth to mountanous regions such as Serbia, Bosnia, Albania etc.? Is it possible to simulate this late game through either trade, colonization or adoption of cultivating the crop in your provinces? For example i know Serbias population in the 19th cenutry nearly doubled, and while there were many factors to it, the main one was due to agricultural improvements like potato cultivation.
The same thing happened almost everywhere the Ottoman tax registrys show how corn (the thing you will always find some guy grilling in the citys) was the most used crop in the area rougly between Dibra and Ohrid. Probably more but the book just used those as an example.
The same thing happened almost everywhere the Ottoman tax registrys show how corn (the thing you will always find some guy grilling in the citys) was the most used crop in the area rougly between Dibra and Ohrid. Probably more but the book just used those as an example.
definetly, but in regions that werent that well suited for cultivation of traditional European crops like Ireland and the rural, mountanious regions of the balkans the impact of a hardy crop like the potato was definetly more pronounced than in other areas(im not saying these were the only areas impacted, only the first that come to mind)
I might have missed it if it was mentioned in some previous dev diary, but does the introduction of Mesoamerican crops(the potato specifically) to Europe lead to any sort of large scale population boom, or more specifically for this thread a quite noticeable population growth to mountanous regions such as Serbia, Bosnia, Albania etc.? Is it possible to simulate this late game through either trade, colonization or adoption of cultivating the crop in your provinces? For example i know Serbias population in the 19th cenutry nearly doubled, and while there were many factors to it, the main one was due to agricultural improvements like potato cultivation.
Next, you’ll tell me Serbia doubled its medieval armies thanks to potato-powered marching boots. Let’s try sticking to the serious events before rewriting the history of the game with your vegetable fantasies.
Hello there,
I’d like to add info about the places I know by heart & foot to the Devs. I have been taking part or supporting research (historical geography & archeology, GIS, field surveys) since a several years now. The area of interest is the middle Danube valley, mostly today's Hungary. Overall the map is great, in parts it is crazy how accurate, thanks for your hard work making it already this far!
I'll keep the resources, and references, detailed explanation in another thread to keep everything nice & clean here (TLDR free). My proposals will be drawn on the latest map.
(I guess I'll write something like a JIRA ticket here xd, I hope this makes it easier to process it.)
1. Topography, Vegetation, Resources Proposals:
"Flatland" to "Hills" in "Pécs"
Flip "Wetlands" to the eastern side of the Danube (Kalocsa & Bodrog) -> easy path from Eszék to Buda, as this was the case IRL.
Danube could be enhanced with a more historic flow, it seems to follow the modern riverbed now.
If "Pécs" is "Hills", then move "Horses" to a "Flatland".
2. Development Proposals:
Add development to the economically active riverside provinces ("Tolnavár", "Csongrád", "Solt").
Add development to "Pécs".
Remove development from cuman settled areas. ("Sárbogárd","Kiskunfélegyháza", "Jakabszállás").
3. Administrative borders Proposal:
Add Csepel Island from "Solt, Fejér" to "Dabas", "Pest". Rename "Dabas" to "Keve" or "Ábrahámtelke" (before 1440). (this was suggested).
Create province"Tolna" (could be swapped with the marginal "Kraszna").
Resize Tolna, use it's medieval extent. - Historically not accurate currently!
Split "Tolnavár" in half, add a new location to the southern half (2).
Resize "Dombóvár" location (3).
Move "Eszék" to "Baranya" province
Adjust "Pécs" borders southwards,
(optional) Create "Szabadka" from Baja an put it in Csongrád/Bácska (already suggested)
Move "Zenta" further north
Create new location in "Bács"
3. Names of locations: Proposal: Fejér province
Rename "Fehér" province to "Fejér". - Historically not accurate!
Rename "Sárbogárd" to "Adony". or "Hantos"(cumans) - Historically not accurate! (already suggested).
Rename "Székesfehérvár" to "Fehérvár". - Historically not accurate!
Csongrád province
Rename "Jakabszállás" to "Félegyháza" (already suggested).
Rename "Kiskunfélegyháza" to "Halas" (already suggested).
Rename "Csongrád" to "Szeged" (the location, already suggested).
Tolna (province?) - see numbers on map
Rename "Tolnavár" to "Tolna".
New location, add name "Szekszárd". (already suggested)
Rename "Dombóvár" to "Simontornya".
Bácska province
Rename "Bácska" to "Bács"
Rename "Újvidék" to "Titel". - Historically not accurate!
Add location "Futak"
Slavonia proper province
Rename "Slavonia Proper" province to "Szerémség/Szerém". - Historically not accurate!
Rename "Vukovár" to "Valkóvár" - Historically not accurate!
Thanks for reading, hopefully these proposals will be considered! Open for discussion on the specific thread!
Next, you’ll tell me Serbia doubled its medieval armies thanks to potato-powered marching boots. Let’s try sticking to the serious events before rewriting the history of the game with your vegetable fantasies.
So... I'm still thinking about the Dobruja issue. I've already hashed out my stance that Karvuna should be on the map in 1337, but if the devs don't see a place for that in their creative vision, then I think I've found an okay compromise.
Looking back on Tinto Talks #26, the concept of building-based countries and its application to Japanese clans seems like it could fit the situation of Bulgaria's soon-to-break-away feudal domains. Once more consulting Atanasov's book, here are some additional facts supporting the idea that Karvuna's autonomy began well before Balik's name was first put to pen (quill?) in 1344.
>In 1240, Cuman tribes fleeing Mongol conquest are welcomed to Bulgaria by Tsar Ivan Asen II. Their point of entry is Dobruja.
>This coincides with the first appearance of a distinct Karvuna Hora (district), along with a number of Cuman placenames in northeastern Bulgaria.
>The most important of these is Karvuna itself - likely deriving from Kipchak Turkic Kara Buna (black spring/well).
>Kara Buna was also the name of a settlement close to modern-day Tatarbunary in southwestern Ukraine, which was the capital of a Cuman chiefdom.
>This is no coincidence. The Terteroba clan (which led these migrating Cumans) established itself in Bulgaria, participating in local politics and eventually seizing the throne in 1280.
>Karvuna, ruled by the Terteroba clan as an independent domain following their loss of Tarnovo in 1322, was likely a seat/feudal holding of the family from the very beginning (i.e. their arrival in 1240).
>In addition, references to Karvuna and Varna being outside of Tarnovo's ecclesiastic jurisdiction appear in 1323 and 1325, although I've already gone over this in previous posts.
>Source: ДОБРУДЖАНСКОТО ДЕСПОТСТВО - КЪМ ПОЛИТИЧЕСКАТА, ЦЪРКОВНАТА,СТОПАНСКАТА И КУЛТУРНАТА ИСТОРИЯ НАДОБРУДЖА ПРЕЗ ХІV ВЕК, page 54.
Having Karvuna as a building-based country (representing the Terterids' feudal holding) would be a good, organic way to portray the growing autonomy of the polity, eventually culminating in its independence (which would occur when it gains land via event). It would also give people an opportunity to play as the despotate without tag switching.
This same solution could be applied to other scenarios where countries fragment after 1337. Various Serbian/Albanian noble clans could also start off as building-based countries and annex surrounding lands upon Stefan Dušan's death. Low control and separatism modifiers are a poor way to simulate this scenario because they rob the player of a rich opportunity to experience it from a breakaway domain's perspective. Some, such as the Dukagjini, Crnojević, Lazarević, and Vojinović clans already have holdings in 1337, while others would show up later as Serbia seizes Byzantine territory. Perhaps, there could be a database of Serbian noble families which would randomly create building-based countries in provinces conquered by the player/AI during Stefan Dušan's lifetime.
Well, that's my last cannister of hopium for this region
So... I'm still thinking about the Dobruja issue. I've already hashed out my stance that Karvuna should be on the map in 1337, but if the devs don't see a place for that in their creative vision, then I think I've found an okay compromise.
Looking back on Tinto Talks #26, the concept of building-based countries and its application to Japanese clans seems like it could fit the situation of Bulgaria's soon-to-break-away feudal domains. Once more consulting Atanasov's book, here are some additional facts supporting the idea that Karvuna's autonomy began well before Balik's name was first put to pen (quill?) in 1344.
>In 1240, Cuman tribes fleeing Mongol conquest are welcomed to Bulgaria by Tsar Ivan Asen II. Their point of entry is Dobruja.
>This coincides with the first appearance of a distinct Karvuna Hora (district), along with a number of Cuman placenames in northeastern Bulgaria.
>The most important of these is Karvuna itself - likely deriving from Kipchak Turkic Kara Buna (black spring/well).
>Kara Buna was also the name of a settlement close to modern-day Tatarbunary in southwestern Ukraine, which was the capital of a Cuman chiefdom.
>This is no coincidence. The Terteroba clan (which led these migrating Cumans) established itself in Bulgaria, participating in local politics and eventually seizing the throne in 1280.
>Karvuna, ruled by the Terteroba clan as an independent domain following their loss of Tarnovo in 1322, was likely a seat/feudal holding of the family from the very beginning (i.e. their arrival in 1240).
>In addition, references to Karvuna and Varna being outside of Tarnovo's ecclesiastic jurisdiction appear in 1323 and 1325, although I've already gone over this in previous posts.
>Source: ДОБРУДЖАНСКОТО ДЕСПОТСТВО - КЪМ ПОЛИТИЧЕСКАТА, ЦЪРКОВНАТА,СТОПАНСКАТА И КУЛТУРНАТА ИСТОРИЯ НАДОБРУДЖА ПРЕЗ ХІV ВЕК, page 54.
Having Karvuna as a building-based country (representing the Terterids' feudal holding) would be a good, organic way to portray the growing autonomy of the polity, eventually culminating in its independence (which would occur when it gains land via event). It would also give people an opportunity to play as the despotate without tag switching.
This same solution could be applied to other scenarios where countries fragment after 1337. Various Serbian/Albanian noble clans could also start off as building-based countries and annex surrounding lands upon Stefan Dušan's death. Low control and separatism modifiers are a poor way to simulate this scenario because they rob the player of a rich opportunity to experience it from a breakaway domain's perspective. Some, such as the Dukagjini, Crnojević, Lazarević, and Vojinović clans already have holdings in 1337, while others would show up later as Serbia seizes Byzantine territory. Perhaps, there could be a database of Serbian noble families which would randomly create building-based countries in provinces conquered by the player/AI during Stefan Dušan's lifetime.
Well, that's my last cannister of hopium for this region
You are overcomplicating the whole thing.
Whenever a certain territory breaks away from a country because of low central power/stability of a liege and low control & strength of the local estate (aristocracy, tribesmen, burghers,...) you just generate a new dynamic independent tag. (name, government type, dynasty,.... is determined ofc first by history files and second by how&which estate etc, took power....
