• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Another thing I've spotted is the presence of Elbasan in Albania - this would be founded in 1466 by the Ottomans from an army camp to administer Albania from. There wasn't much in the region beforehand, though Sopot may be a good candidate to replace it.
 
  • 4Like
  • 1Haha
  • 1
Reactions:
Are the Albanian tags vassals of Naples?
Albania, ruled by Charles of Durazzo, is a subject of Naples; then Muzaka, Thopia, Arianiti, and Mataranga are all subjects of Albania.
 
  • 30Like
  • 9
  • 3Love
  • 1
Reactions:
Another thing I've spotted is the presence of Elbasan in Albania - this would be founded in 1466 by the Ottomans from an army camp to administer Albania from. There wasn't much in the region beforehand, though Sopot may be a good candidate to replace it.
This is the case for quite a few locations in and around there, as this has been done on purpose. Urbanization in Albania took off during Ottoman times; There wouldn't be enough viable location-names, otherwise.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
Hello, thank you for the feedback! I have some remarks regarding Bulgaria and Wallachia. Getting into it, Bulgaria's western border should extend to cover the entirety of the Timok valley so it has direct contact with Hungary. This has been extensively covered in the original thread and I believe many others will bring it up.
I personally want to bring something else to attention and that is the court language in Wallachia and potentially the Moldavian principalities. I belive that, at least in Wallachia, the court language should be Bulgarian. I have 2 pieces of evidence to back this claim up. One, the first written Romanian document we have is from 1521, it being Neacșu's letter. And two, the abundance of Wallachian-Moldavian decrees written in Middle Bulgarian, ranging from the game's start date, up to the 16th century. And to make it clear, they are not written in Church Slavonic, but rather Middle Bulgarian, or what in the game is simply Bulgarian. Below I'll drop a link to all of these decrees in their original Middle Bulgarian form, written verbatim, arranged such that under every ruler is every decree associated with him. This comes from the Historical Faculty of Sofia University, but it can be found elsewhere as well.
https://histdict.uni-sofia.bg/textcorpus/show/doc_193

And I personally believe that if not the various Moldavian principalities, then at least united Moldavia should also have Bulgarian as court language, but Wallachia I'm most certain about.
 
  • 8
  • 2Like
Reactions:
@Pavía to reiterate my point on Patras, this time from The Late Medieval Balkans:
Untitled.png
 
  • 7
  • 4Like
Reactions:
1. This is one of the trickiest issue we had to tackle, as the historical sources are not clear at all, and give quite different information.
2. We consider that this is the most likely border in 1337, and that doesn't really affect a war, which can still happen.
3. That's something that we also discussed, and we're very likely to implement an event to let Karvuna split off Bulgaria.
4. Something that we also discussed, we think that the best way to portray it is as a low-control province, as we don't have good data either about who was ruling over it in 1337.
5. There are Jasz in the region.
1 & 2. I don't get it. Vidin was a Hungarian province for 4 years, how would Hungary annex a landlocked region which they didn't even border?
3. Ok, but considering that Karvuna already had ecclesiastic independence from Tarnovo in 1321, it's very likely that it had political independence as well. That's the same year that the Terteroba clan was dethroned in Tarnovo, so it makes sense that they would create their breakaway domain shortly thereafter. Any event depicting Karvuna's separation at a later date would have no basis in historical record or logical reality. Also, nobody is going to play as Karvuna if you have to play as Tarnovo first and then tag switch after a few years, it's such an unnecessary hassle.
4. I'm on my phone so it's difficult for me to dredge it up, but I distinctly remember including a source for that in my post on page 2 of the original Balkans & Carpathia thread. Speaking of, why is the barrier of entry for sources so high in the Balkans but so low elsewhere in the world? The Manchuria map is full of tribes which may or may not have actually been around where you placed them in 1337. Overall, my original post's contents took a really long time to research and it had an overwhelmingly positive reception from other forum users, I'm disappointed that I sank all of that time into an evidently pointless endeavor.
 
Last edited:
  • 13
Reactions:
Blagoevgrad should still be renamed to something else (maybe to nearby Stop/Stob), as Blagoev was a socialist leader from the 19th century. ;)
 
  • 8
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Albania, ruled by Charles of Durazzo, is a subject of Naples; then Muzaka, Thopia, Arianiti, and Mataranga are all subjects of Albania.
Albania is a kingdom level title right, even though Charles is known as the duke of Durazzo(because he ruled only over that pretty much)?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I want to start off by saying that this is a massive improvement over the original. Carpathia and the Balkans have come a long way - especially Hungary.

That said, I think there's a still a bit of work that needs to be done. Some stuff was posted too recently to be of use, other stuff just slipped through the cracks in the 111 pages of the discussion, I guess. I will try to gather the changes that I think are high-priority and post them today so that good feedback doesn't get lost again.
 
  • 12
  • 4Like
Reactions:
Not really a good flavor name for it, we're open to suggestions, yes.
If it must remain a full area, I agree with a couple others Hellas would look the best. If being split in two, Western Side would clearly be Epirus with the Eastern Side being able to be named Hellas/Greece still, as this region is still very much the core. I would recommend in this case if it is split to add Euboea to the Area as well (As it is BARELY an island in the first place)

I would also recommend Loidoriki and Salona flipping to the Neopatras province, Aetolia did not stretch that far east (Perhaps a bit into Loidoriki, but definitely not Salona)

For simplification, I believe Attica and Beotia should just be Attica, and Aetolia & Acarnania should just be Aetolia IMHO
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Have you guys set in stone the Gallo-Italic language being separate from the rest of Italian?Not to be rude so i wont talk about it anywhere else again about this divide,just to have certainty about it
Very likely, yes.
 
  • 22Like
  • 12
  • 7
  • 2
Reactions:
Amazing! However, feedback turn 2:
Hello everybody, and welcome to the map review of one more region: Carpathia and the Balkans! This one has taken a bit to get out, as although it was almost finished a few weeks ago, we needed to double-check and correct some issues.

This area has had a lot of border changes that are not always very accurately documented, which leads to conflicting versions depending on the author. We have tried to collect the maximum amount of sources to make the best decision that we could. If you disagree, do not hesitate to comment on it, but please remain civil. Many of these borders are up to interpretation and we might not agree with which one is the correct one, which is fine, as it's as long as we have an informed and polite debate.

Without further ado, the changelog will speak for itself, while I show some new map screenshots:



Countries
View attachment 1221238
View attachment 1221239
The two biggest changes here are the new tags in Moldavia and Albania. There still will be an event early in the game for Moldavia, although now it will be about the unification of the tags that start ruled by the Golden Horde into the March, later Principality, of Moldavia.
First thing, why is Albania, along with tits vassals, a vassal of Naples? Nice to see they new Albanian principalities, though.
Dynasties
View attachment 1221240
Notice that many places have no known rulers and dynasties are so created dynamically.
If you want to inclue Arianiti, I'm pretty sure their dynasty should be "Arianiti" and not Anjou.

Here I would like to point out a few things, from the top of my head:
1. drop the "-váralja" and "-alja" names most of the time. There is no reason to name Árva "Árvaváralja", the latter is a village meaning "at the foot of the Castle of Árva", I think it would make more sense to just use the name of the castle Árva. Similar for Murányalja
2. I'm not actually sure if your "Kiskunfélegyháza" location actually includes Kiskunfélegyháza, but either way, I would advise you to restructure Little Cumania to have two locations, Félegyháza to the North and Halas to the south; the Kiskun- prefixes were not used at the time and still dropped today in colloquial speech.
3. Vajdahunyad should be named Hunyad or Hunyadvár, because it only got the Vajda- prefix during the reign of John Hunyadi
4. drop the Hajdú from Szoboszló for similar reasons
5. why did you exactly add the mountain pass at Brassó to Fogaras? That makes zero sense!
6. Szeged SHOULD and MUST be an actual location, as it was a very important city of the period and today

On Albania:
1. Kavaje does not seem to include the actual city of Kavaje
2. Elbasan did not exist back then; I advise naming the location after Çermenikë perhpas
3. in my understanding, Devoll should be under Muzaka control at this time, while Pogradec should be split from that location and given to Serbia
Provinces
View attachment 1221245
Bîrlad should Bârlad (already corrected)
Much better, however the provinces of Hungary still do not follow county borders in many places where they could and for absolutely no reason.
1. there is no reason for Pozsony and Nyitra to be united like that
2. Trencsén and the three Tatran counties could and should absolutely separated
3. I do not dig the Mega-Szepes. If we can't get them all separate Abaúj, maybe....
4. same with Mega-Zemplén: even a separate Zemplén and a Ung-Bereg-Ugocsa
5. not only does Hunyad within Fehér look funny, it is also completely unnecessary
6. there is no good way to divide the Southern Alföld around Bács and Csongrád, but I would still at least think about it a bit more
This one looks good!
Terrain

View attachment 1221248

Some wastelands in the Carpathians have disappeared, and are now just Mountains; however, they will continue being quite strategic in winter, as the mountain passes may freeze, blocking movement.
So I see a LOT of problems here.
1. Buda, Pécs, Eger, and Borsod too should be hills. I would representent the Bakony too somehow, either with Veszprém or with maybe Zalavár
2. the plateaus around the Carpathians are weird... I think you have based them on Fehérvári's analysis, which was far from perfect. Fogaras is a very characteristic plateau, and there is also the central parts of Transylvania which is also basically flat.
3. the biggest offender is the Northern Carpathians, this spread of mountains compared to hills has no relation to reality. The Low Beskids (which you made mountains) do not reach the height or ruggedness of necessary for mountains, while the Fatra and the Slovak Ore Mountains have locations that are justified to be mountains.

However, lovely to see some wetlands!

Made a visual representation:
1732547160700.png


Cultures
View attachment 1221254
There are also some changes in this distribution. The most important ones are the Rusyn culture being replaced by Halychian, and Moldovan being its own culture in the setup.
Still do not understand why separate Translyvanian culture, nor why is it still called that (at least name it Translyvanian Romanian, then), but please change its colour to something not another shade of grey. There are already way too many "vaguely light grey" toned cultures around (Greek, Bulgarian, Turkish, Transylvanian and Transylvanian Saxon).

On another note - there is some evidence of Jassic people still being around Iasi at this date.

Furthermore, I don't believe the core Northern Csángó group should be represented by Székelys, but either Hungarians or their own culture (Székely Csángós are a separate cathegory of Csángós with their own identity and dialect different from the "older" Csángós), but most importantly, their population center is located in and around Roman, a location that does not have them as a minority even on your current map.
Dominant Language
View attachment 1221255
The dominant language per location. We have not yet done the dialects, our lower level, which is used for flavor on location and character names, so suggestions are welcome.
As you are already probably aware, Dalmatian should not be part of the Italian language, not even according to the Romance language tree that has been used as teh benchmark for Romance languages.

The court language of Croatia, just like Hungary's, was Latin.

And I would be very surprised if the Anjou-led Kingdom of Albania actually used the Albanian language.... I would say Latin there, too.

While I do not see a dominance of Livestock and as many horses in Hungary as I would expect, my biggest issue here is that Aranyosbánya (quite literally called "gold mine" or "golden mine") is not Gold producing. Why? It was in fact an important gold mine.


Overall, there certainly are a lot of improvement, even though you missed some spots! Hope we can see the result of this second turn feedback too.

And once again- can we get a Towns and Cities map, please?
 
  • 20Like
  • 3
  • 3
Reactions:
Even though I suggested salt for the Ploesti location (Wallachia), it seems that with the new locations the salt-mines might actually be within the Slanic-location now (Doftana, Telega and Slanic itself). This needs a check-up, just like the iron-mines I mentioned earlier ;)
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
  • 2Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
Albania is a kingdom level title right, even though Charles is known as the duke of Durazzo(because he ruled only over that pretty much)?
Is Albania a PU of Naples or a normal vassal? Also, is it at this point a Kingdom rank or Duchy?
First thing, why is Albania, along with tits vassals, a vassal of Naples? Nice to see they new Albanian principalities, though.
1. Currently the country rank is not set.
2. Normal subject, Naples is ruled by King Robert II.
3. Albania was created by King Charles I for one of his sons, from where the Durazzo branch of the dynasty came.
 
  • 25Like
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions: