Well, the above it is just a clarification of the rules rather than a restriction. The same rules now apply for GitHub as for external forums: only for developers/testers.
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We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Two questions:
Firstly, I have spent the past year slowly building a Narnia mod for CK II that I was hoping I could make an open public contribution mod using github, where anyone could contribute as much to it without having to make a team commitment. I mostly wished to do this so I would have to manage building and maintaining a modding team on top of building and maintaining a mod, mainly because my time is already spread out too thin by being a contributing member to a few other mods. But now I find like I can no longer do this due to the new restrictions. Is there any way I still can do this, possibly by some other means?
Secondly, where can I upload a mod to on these forums? Is it some thing I upload in a post, or do I do it somewhere in my profile?
Firstly, I have spent the past year slowly building a Narnia mod for CK II that I was hoping I could make an open public contribution mod using github, where anyone could contribute as much to it without having to make a team commitment. I mostly wished to do this so I would have to manage building and maintaining a modding team on top of building and maintaining a mod, mainly because my time is already spread out too thin by being a contributing member to a few other mods. But now I find like I can no longer do this due to the new restrictions. Is there any way I still can do this, possibly by some other means?
Secondly, where can I upload a mod to on these forums? Is it some thing I upload in a post, or do I do it somewhere in my profile?
Thinking about it all, I decided to look into what extent mods actually follow the rule on external downloads.
As a basis, I simply took the 7 mods that have CKII sub-forums. I'll avoid any particular names.
Out of those 7:
- 2 have ModDB pages (by their authors)
- 4 have GitHub pages (by their authors)
- The last one used to have a GitHub page. From what I hear they didn't stop due to the rules, but due to some of their users being dumb and making bug reports with the in development version without mentioning that they were using the in development version
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Without any names, as far as I see, 4 out of 7 mods are within the rules, so either I don't get the same conclusion as you, or we are interpreting the rules differently.
All I can find about Github or Moddb pages that are public specifically being mentioned as being against the rules only goes back a couple months when many long established mods have been using Github for nearly a year or more, and Moddb for even longer. I only just heard of these rules existing just last week, and I am sure there are other mod makers who are still completely unaware in regards to these rules, otherwise I would think there would be less questions asking for their clarification. Many of us can't just undo our Githubs or Moddbs being public overnight, as sometimes they were established by retired members, apart from having the links removed from our threads.
@Castellon Perhaps editing the opening post of this thread and also posting a sticky in all of the modding subforums for every game here specifically outlining what is accepted and not, and what exactly permits a mod to be "grandfathered", could better help with our understanding and also spread the word of these new rules (or at least newly enforced rules) to the rest of the modders who are still in the dark. Many of us modders do probably want to abide by the new rules, we just need clarifications on them and some time to implement it once we understand. Also providing us with a list of accepted alternatives and also detailing how to upload our mods on these forums I think will also be a very helpful thing to add.
@Castellon Perhaps editing the opening post of this thread and also posting a sticky in all of the modding subforums for every game here specifically outlining what is accepted and not, and what exactly permits a mod to be "grandfathered", could better help with our understanding and also spread the word of these new rules (or at least newly enforced rules) to the rest of the modders who are still in the dark. Many of us modders do probably want to abide by the new rules, we just need clarifications on them and some time to implement it once we understand. Also providing us with a list of accepted alternatives and also detailing how to upload our mods on these forums I think will also be a very helpful thing to add.
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Even without names, if 4 out of the 7 sub-forum mods have immediately-accessible-via-Google GitHub repositories (or even just ones _somewhere_ that are publicly accessible and so much as contain the name/acronym of the mod within the repository name or within any associated files that could be indexed by a search engine), then they are in direct violation according to the most recent post from @Castellon in this thread.
Since there's only 7 total being considered, I don't see how what you're saying can be correct, @loup99, and that's only considering the recent "GitHub ruling" and not such comments from moderators as (paraphrase) "if your download or some way to get to your download other than ParadoxPlaza becomes indexed by Google or available on reddit or whatever, then you must immediately move your download."
To make matters worse: with Steam Workshop, any person, whether they have the game or even Steam or not, can download any Steam Workshop item directly if they know the URL to the Workshop item (publicly-indexed, so not a problem). I suppose it'd follow, then, that all CK2/EU4 Workshop mods are also in violation of the aforementioned application of the rules _if they have a ParadoxPlaza forum presence_.
In conclusion, presence on this forum doesn't seem to be compatible with realistic mod development these days.
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@Castellon rarely replies here is my impression. I never received an answer on whether public bug trackers are allowed or not (see question a few post ago)
In my experience and based on looking through this thread's history @Castellon only tends to ignore compromising questions, like when people directly question the rules or ask for an explanation of the justification of a rule, take for example @Zelly's question on page 37.
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How is asking whether we can use a public bug tracker is allowed as seen in mod X a "compromising question"? PDX has no interest in explaining what modders are allowed to do. Otherwise they would shed much more light into the rules for user made mods.
so let me get this straight-
any public file host (github, mediafire, MEGA, even modDB?) other than the PI forum and steam (SVNs aren't included in this right?) are prohibited no matter what conditions there are?
with/without link, with/without even mentioning it? EDIT: or is it safe to say "mod download is here at X site, your on your own from here"
you risk infraction by having any possible way of downloading a mod outside of an official/approved channel?
any public file host (github, mediafire, MEGA, even modDB?) other than the PI forum and steam (SVNs aren't included in this right?) are prohibited no matter what conditions there are?
with/without link, with/without even mentioning it? EDIT: or is it safe to say "mod download is here at X site, your on your own from here"
you risk infraction by having any possible way of downloading a mod outside of an official/approved channel?
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No, moddb being a hosting site, if you have it accesible to other people than the devs, as far as I understand it, you break the rules of the forum too. Then I'm not sure, but someone else here might be able to clarify that.
You know guys, we wouldn't have all these questions if @Castellon would update the OP with all clairifactions and word the rules in a way that leaves no doubts on what is allowed and what isn't. However, it appears that Paradox has no interest in making the rules understandable, otherwise it is fair to say that this would have happened long time ago. This is underlined by the recent lack of replies from Castellon in this thread.
Please people, calm down on the Castellon and Paradox conspiracy theories because of a week-end break and busy schedules, and instead focus on discussing questions or what can be improved, we will get answers anyway sooner or later.
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A weekend break? The issue is that Paradox is in general slow at replying in this thread. My question from a few weeks ago remains still unanswered.
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Don't lose faith in them, they will answer us in their own times, and they are being asked many questions by many people and need time to answer them. Please be patient, they will get around to it eventually.
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According to @Castellon's post a page or so back, GitHub is allowed IF you attempt to obscure it, like using a project name instead of the mod's name, you do not pass the link out to anyone but the development team and its existence is not publicly known.
Using services like mediafire or megaupload are allowed IF the links to the download can only be officially found through these forums, meaning it can not be posted on the Steam workshop page.
AFAIK moddb is not allowed, except for a few older mods for CK2.
I have no idea about the status of SVNs.
I do not know about an infraction, based on what has been said previously by @Castellon Paradox are more likely to just delete/edit your mod's thread and delete it from the Workshop. But it is worth noting that these rules are only relevant if you wish to advertise your mod on this forum and/or upload the mod on Steam Workshop, if not you can do whatever the hell you like.
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As well as the official wiki, AFAIK.
Perhaps on the reddit sub-mini-thingy too, I don't know, but as @Meneth is a moderator there, the same rules should apply.
The subreddit is not affiliated with Paradox. It has its own set of rules.
Oh, I thought it was as you are affiliated with them and is the wiki admin and reddit mod. No matter, I guess.
But what does that mean then? I have seen discussions about WtWSMS, but since the new rules that won't be allowed, should I contact mods here or there? Is is allowed for you or for paradox? Or does reddit posts count as grandfathering?
This is a true hassle, I don't really understand things at all now.Because the reddit will actively proliferate direct download links without anyone being able to intervene. This effectively nullifies any efforts of mine to limit the downloading of the mod outside here. And neither I, nor the reddit moderation nor paradox can intervene. This effectively destroys any efforts on paradox's side too. With that in mind I'm not especially willing to limit the mod accessibility, as that reddit forum will easily share them in English anyway, opening it up for pirates et all.
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I've moderated the subreddit since before Paradox bought the wikis and contracted me.Oh, I thought it was as you are affiliated with them and is the wiki admin and reddit mod. But what does that mean then? I have seen discussions about WtWSMS, but since the new rules that won't be allowed, should I contact mods here or there? Is is allowed for you or for paradox? Or does reddit posts count as grandfathering?
Because the reddit will actively proliferate direct download links without anyone being able to intervene. This effectively nullifies any efforts of mine to limit the downloading of the mod outside here.
I continue to moderate it under the condition that I abstain from decisions where my relationship with Paradox might significantly influence my vote.
If you want to request mod actions or the like in the subreddit, you need to contact the moderator team as a unit.
This is now clearly off-topic, so I suggest dropping the topic.