Vinland Fantasy Scenario

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Languish
So much for my working day I can't help but constantly think about this excellent scenario and the potential it has.

Know what you mean.

Originally posted by Languish
Relations with the Micmac Tribe, and ideas for Events

Early relations with the Micmacs will of course be crucial it determining the nature of the vinalnd players progression in north america. This tribe don’t strictly stand in the way of Vinland should they wish to expand heavily into north america, but enevitably conflicts will arise between vinland and some native tribe. In 1419 the territories will not actually have a common land border if my provincial ideas remain as they now are. This is actually a bonus. For example, In order to seriously attack the Micmacs the Vinland player will need to mount a serious naval assault, something that is likely to cost heavily in casualties and resources. This could be far better spent aiding against the Huron with the Micmacs with a smaller transport of "token" forces. Religon will also play a massive part in the future of vinland and north america as time goes by. Based upon the events I have seen scripted in part so far this is a summary of how they might interact with the natives using those events.

It will take a bit of coordination to make sure the Vinland events tie in with the Micmac events. But it would be great...

Originally posted by Languish
1420's

This should be characterised by a high starting relations value between vinland and micmac. The chief opponent, to draw the vinland player in immediately, should be whether to assist and aid the Micmac in the task of securing their ancient hunting grounds from Huron predators. Bjarni Eiríksson should be protrayed, imho, as the archetypal viking warrior chief. Honourable, Imposing yet Diplomatic. It would be his decision, from the outset of the game, to decide on the long term fate of the colony. An event should occur almost immediately, to avoid any quick DoW's, signifying Huron raids into Micmac hunting grounds, and their calls for assistance to the Vinlanders. This decision is fundamental to the intial direction of the vinlanders military and trade efforts and who they primarily interact with. This event should be relatively persuasive in swaying vinlanders to ally with the micmacs for the better of the community.

In on of my events I've portrayed Bjarni Eiríksson as one who was opposed to further expansion, and tried unsuccessfully to make his son do the same. So I think under Bjarni's rule there would exist peaceful trade relations with the natives... which would become more hostile when his son takes the throne and tries to expand....

Originally posted by Languish
1430 - 40's

These years are characterised by the rasher rule of Þorvaldr helluflagi who is killed in 1439 during his now famous expidition. Fortunately this event can be written to cater for two separate possibilities. If the vinlanders have soured relations with the Micmacs by refusing to assist against the Huron this could potentially occur in Micmac territory... or alternatively if allied/friendly with the Micmacs this would then have likely occurred in Huron territory. We just wake and sleep the differently worded events. His widow, Þorgerðr in fróða, takes up the reign of power immediately afterwards, and is forced to make a decision on the fate of the tribe involved, all tribes, or to take no action at all that would endanger the colony.

Sounds good.

Originally posted by Languish
1450's

The Heresy Of Einarr øxnamegin dominates this decade as the player is forced to make a pretty hefty decision about the future of vinland based upon the arrival of Einarr øxnamegin from the wilderness. His origins should be dependant on who the Vinlander is allied with, or at war against. His return to Vinland, and if elected, would have a profound impact on the nature of vinland. Not only do they practically merge culturally with the abenaki (Micmac) or huron (Huron) but they should almost assuredly be faced with an appropriate religious option. I think, so long as micmac exists, he should have been raised in Micmac land. His arrival would heal any rifts with vinland, or merely strenghten already strong ties. But he should be seen as a religious bridge between the two peoples.

I was thinking the tribe that Einarr encountered would be a very small tribe and would not be as large as the Micmac. This is because I have wrote that the tribe was annhiliated in a raid by a neighbouring hostile tribe... but Let's say that they were an Abenaki tribe that formed a part of the Micmac nation. The hostile tribe in question, could be the Huron or one of the tribes making up the Huron.

Originally posted by Languish
Also rather cooly, if he isnt selected he could return to micmac as a ruler for them? That'd be pretty cool. This could even change the tech group of the micmacs or give them other "westernising" bonuses/events.

Yeah, and he would have his shaman friend to persuade them of his divinity.

Originally posted by Languish
Just some ideas I am cobbling together about the early vinland history that is possible. The Micmacs have made early events likely and often enough to keep the player entertained as time gets closer to early european intrusion. Please comment/add as you see fit.

Those were good ideas. As you work on them we should all work together to make sure they tie in with Vinland and vice versa. I would feel more comfortable in working on events knowing that the map was finished, and it looks like Havard is getting it along nicely.

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Here is an event I created in case the Merchants win the election. It allows Vinland to convert to Christianity, and gives them some good things, but at a cost of a drop of stability and revolts...

event = {
id = 100000
trigger = { monarch = 17003 } #Kolbeinn hinn gamli
random = no
country = U10
name = "The Greed Of Kolbeinn Hinn Gamli"
desc = "Kolbeinn hinn gamli was the wealthiest man in Vinland at this time. And as such, he was a prime candidate for the election of a new king upon the death of the heirless queen Þorgerðr. There are those who say he bribed the nobles into electing him, but whatever the case he eventually became the new king of Vinland. A few years into his reign, he set out a trade expedition to Europe loaded with furs, whale ivory, and other valuable trade goods. Their arrival in Europe caused quite a stir, to say the least. Not just because Vinland was considered legend, but also because the Vinlanders worshipped the old gods. Eventually they arrive at port in Eire, here the local clan agreed to trade for these goods on the condition that a monk by the name of -fill in space here- travelled with them to convert the Heathen Vinland to Christianity. Kolbeinn cared little in the way of religion, his religion was the desire to gain more and more money for himself. So he had no objection in making Christianity the state religion, to allow increased trade with Europe. However, there were many who opposed this move back at home...."
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1457 }

action_a ={
name = "Open Trade With Europe. Accept Christianity"
command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 3 }
command = { type = relation which = EIR value = 120 }
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = SCO value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = NOR value = 100 }
command = { type = relation which = DEN value = 100 }
command = { type = relation which = SWE value = 100 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 50 }
command = { type = stability value = -8 }
command = { type = conversion which = -2 }
command = { type = religion which = catholic }
command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -2 }
command = { type = technology which = latin }
command = { type = trade value = 1000 }
command = { type = treasury value = 500 }
command = { type = merchants value = 6 }
command = { type = missionaries value = 3 }
command = { type = desertion which = 2000 value = -1 }
}
action_b ={
name = "Keep Our Beliefs, But Try To Conduct Trade Anyway"
command = { type = relation which = EIR value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = SCO value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = NOR value = -80 }
command = { type = relation which = DEN value = -70 }
command = { type = relation which = SWE value = -60 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -50 }
command = { type = stability value = 2 }
command = { type = trade value = 500 }
command = { type = merchants value = 3 }
}
}

 

[Languish]

Harvard: Looking forward to seeing that series of events

Krunch: Glad to see i ain't rocking the boat with anything i have yet put forward its just good to be a part of whats going on.

Even though it hasnt been perhaps put down in words i assumed we were all in tacit agreement about what provinces were owned, controlled and known about? Were there any questions we had left? Naturally like you and harvard i am keen to progress into events once such questions are definitively resolved.

Speaking of events, the merchant event totally kicks ass! Its great to see two event-rich options available to the vinland player.

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Languish
Even though it hasnt been perhaps put down in words i assumed we were all in tacit agreement about what provinces were owned, controlled and known about? Were there any questions we had left? Naturally like you and harvard i am keen to progress into events once such questions are definitively resolved.

I am fine with the known/owned province layout that Havard has done. Now I am only wondering about city improvements for these provinces. Such as fortresses and such, and I am wondering about a CoT. The Manhattan CoT should probably be moved to a Vinland controlled province (if Vinland is in existance) as Vinland would be the one the natives all go to for trading...

Originally posted by Languish
Speaking of events, the merchant event totally kicks ass! Its great to see two event-rich options available to the vinland player.

My idea here was that going with the military wing would mean you get the heresy of Einarr event which leads to Paganism and increased ties with natives. And the Merchant wing would lead towards Christianity and increased ties with Europe.

Both events go under the assumption that Vinland starts out following the old Asatru beliefs (represented by Hinduism). This means that going towards either Christianity or the Skraeling beliefs (Paganism) would be very unpopular either way... and perhaps after these rulers (Einarr and Kolbeinn) die, their successors would want to go back to the old beliefs.. These would be events that take place after the successors take control, and of course they will have several options to ensure that the player can choose to stay with any religion he/she likes.

 

[Languish]

I have written a small event to cater for the opening "skraeling war" between micmac and huron, this represents the triggered event allowing for vinlander involvement should they desire it.

event = {
id = 10000
random = no
country = U10
name = "The Skraeling War"
name = "Ever since their arrival in these lands the vinlanders had maintained a precarious balance of trading and placating the natives along with careful expansionism. Over the course of several recent decades, and with the recent demise of the Beothuk tribe in southern newfoundland supposedly at their hand, their honesty and integrity has been challenged by the Micmac. The Micmac, closest tribe to vinland, have gone to war against their heriditary foes the Huron over disputed hunting grounds in regions bordering the two tribal lands. The Micmac grand chief has himself personally sent messengers bearing gifts and tribute to Bjarni to request aid and indeed support for their actions against the Huron. Bjarni, predictably, is remaining cautious of such a committment for it would endanger his own lands to leave them unprotected, however support for either tribe could and would most likely have lasting impact for vinland in years to come especially with any tribe he supported. Relations with neighbouring Micmacs had up until now been strong, and Bjarni considered how damaging relations could be if he did not support them over the unknown and warlike Huron... It was indeed a troubling time for the King."
style = 1

# Triggered by a Micmac Event (c. 1419/20).

action_a = {
name = "Ally with the Micmac"
command = { type = relation which = HUR value = -200 }
command = { type = relation which = U00 value = 200 }
command = { type = war which = HUR }
command = { type = casusbelli which = HUR value = 72 }
command = { type = treasury value = 50 } #gifts and tribute
command = { type = alliance which = U00 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Ally with the Huron"
command = { type = relation which = U00 value = -200 }
command = { type = relation which = HUR value = 100 } #Lower because the Huron are all but unknown.
command = { type = war which = U00 }
command = { type = stability value = -2 } #This would be considered a bad decision by Bjarni.
command = { type = casusbelli which = U00 value = 72 }
command = { type = alliance which = HUR }
}
action_c = {
name = "Remain Strictly Neutral"
command = { type = relation which = U00 value = -50 } #Huron would not be bothered.
}
}

Note: U00 is the tag i am currently using for the Micmac. Substitute as appropriate.

 

[Languish]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch


I am fine with the known/owned province layout that Havard has done. Now I am only wondering about city improvements for these provinces. Such as fortresses and such, and I am wondering about a CoT. The Manhattan CoT should probably be moved to a Vinland controlled province (if Vinland is in existance) as Vinland would be the one the natives all go to for trading...

My idea here was that going with the military wing would mean you get the heresy of Einarr event which leads to Paganism and increased ties with natives. And the Merchant wing would lead towards Christianity and increased ties with Europe.

Both events go under the assumption that Vinland starts out following the old Asatru beliefs (represented by Hinduism). This means that going towards either Christianity or the Skraeling beliefs (Paganism) would be very unpopular either way... and perhaps after these rulers (Einarr and Kolbeinn) die, their successors would want to go back to the old beliefs.. These would be events that take place after the successors take control, and of course they will have several options to ensure that the player can choose to stay with any religion he/she likes.

The Merchant wing should also maybe affect the CoT. Go with that and it gets created/moved to vinland, and if you dont it remains in manhattan. This would be a powerful stimulus to any player considering the benefits between a powerful military wing complete with explorers, conquistadores, etc or a rich and influential trading empire.

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Languish


The Merchant wing should also maybe affect the CoT. Go with that and it gets created/moved to vinland, and if you dont it remains in manhattan. This would be a powerful stimulus to any player considering the benefits between a powerful military wing complete with explorers, conquistadores, etc or a rich and influential trading empire.

That is a very good idea. Unfortunately however, it isn't possible to remove the Manhattan CoT, so you'd end up with two CoTs in close proximity to each other..... not a good thing. But the Manhattan CoT could be edited in the game files so it doesn't exist at all, and then when a Vinland CoT appears...

I looked at your event above. It looks good.

I think the U00 tag will be used in the EEP by some new countries, if it isn't already being used... so I would try a higher tag number like U11 or something, just so that people who have the EEP installed won't overwrite something.

 

[unmerged(1057)]

Captain K, Havard and Languish :

This is amazing..I am out for a day and you work like "maniacs"..
I like what I see..This is going to be a winner..

 

[Languish]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch


That is a very good idea. Unfortunately however, it isn't possible to remove the Manhattan CoT, so you'd end up with two CoTs in close proximity to each other..... not a good thing. But the Manhattan CoT could be edited in the game files so it doesn't exist at all, and then when a Vinland CoT appears...

I looked at your event above. It looks good.

I think the U00 tag will be used in the EEP by some new countries, if it isn't already being used... so I would try a higher tag number like U11 or something, just so that people who have the EEP installed won't overwrite something.

Feel free to re-word the event ("vinlanderise" it) if needs be, i certainly wont object. More to come.

About the tag, no problem... because i didnt know about such creatures as the EEP i merely assumed U11 it is then, unless Harvard or someone else knows of a better alternative??

Where can we edit this CoT information? (never had to do this before)

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Languish
Feel free to re-word the event ("vinlanderise" it) if needs be, i certainly wont object. More to come.

I don't see anything wrong with the text.
The thing is though, as we get more ideas and as the greater story is being written it might be necessary to look back over the event texts and see if it all fits in with the "bigger picture". But right now it's too early to say what the final story will be...

Originally posted by Languish
Where can we edit this CoT information? (never had to do this before)

This information is stored in the 1419.inc file which can be found in the scenarios folder.

Here is the entry for the Manhattan CoT:

#Manhattan (Perhaps unrealistic)
cot = { location = 87 }

They even admitted "perhaps unrealistic" which indeed it is... I think the only reason it exists there, is to keep the trade in North America from going to a European CoT.

If Vinland is in the theatre, I think they should get the CoT... perhaps in their capital or Isle Royale or something. Isle Royale sounds good, because it is an island inbetween the Micmac mainland and the Newfoundland Vinland.

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch


I don't see anything wrong with the text.
The thing is though, as we get more ideas and as the greater story is being written it might be necessary to look back over the event texts and see if it all fits in with the "bigger picture". But right now it's too early to say what the final story will be...

I'll probably go over the names and adjust the bynames to fit with the events... e.g.:

Þorvaldr helluflagi - helluflagi means 'ambush/surpise-attack'. This byname should not be used while he is alive.
Einarr øxnamegin - øxnamegin means 'ox-strength'. I'm sure I can find a better byname for someone raised by the skrælings
Kolbeinn hinn gamli - hinn gamli means 'the old' - should maybe be changed to 'the rich' or 'the greedy'?

This information is stored in the 1419.inc file which can be found in the scenarios folder.

Here is the entry for the Manhattan CoT:

#Manhattan (Perhaps unrealistic)
cot = { location = 87 }

They even admitted "perhaps unrealistic" which indeed it is... I think the only reason it exists there, is to keep the trade in North America from going to a European CoT.

If Vinland is in the theatre, I think they should get the CoT... perhaps in their capital or Isle Royale or something. Isle Royale sounds good, because it is an island inbetween the Micmac mainland and the Newfoundland Vinland.

I tried moving the Manhannan CoT to Gander - it is not a good idea... Gander got the trade from Greenland, Vinland and Micmac, while the rest of NA went to Ganges, Kutch and another CoT I can't remember... I suggest we keep Manhattan (maybe move it a bit south?) and then add one in Vinland (if they should get one, that is ).

About the location: I though the Micmacs got Isle Royal?

I'll try to put up an alpha version of the scenario for download this evening (European time). I have included the monarchs for Vinland and the Micmacs; new shields (unfortunately no flags yet) etc. No event file yet - I'll try to collect this later.

About EEP compability etc.: I suggest we make the scenario by using the moddir option (huh? you say - moddir what? -> See here). This way any changes we do to text.csv, country.csv, province.csv etc won't affect other scenarios

 

[Languish]

Originally posted by Havard
I tried moving the Manhannan CoT to Gander - it is not a good idea... Gander got the trade from Greenland, Vinland and Micmac, while the rest of NA went to Ganges, Kutch and another CoT I can't remember... I suggest we keep Manhattan (maybe move it a bit south?) and then add one in Vinland (if they should get one, that is ).

About the location: I though the Micmacs got Isle Royal?

I'll try to put up an alpha version of the scenario for download this evening (European time). I have included the monarchs for Vinland and the Micmacs; new shields (unfortunately no flags yet) etc. No event file yet - I'll try to collect this later.

About EEP compability etc.: I suggest we make the scenario by using the moddir option (huh? you say - moddir what? -> See here). This way any changes we do to text.csv, country.csv, province.csv etc won't affect other scenarios

Yeah, the Micmacs now own Isle Royal according to my latest "research", so please keep that as it is. As for the problems with moving the CoT I am in agreement, keep manhattan where it is (or move it slightly) and provide another in Vinland (Gandar) if that route is actually selected by the player.

I am looking forward to the first download and some early beta testing tonight. It will also give me a good chance to playtest some early events and to see exactly how strong growth might be.

 

[Languish]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch

The thing is though, as we get more ideas and as the greater story is being written it might be necessary to look back over the event texts and see if it all fits in with the "bigger picture". But right now it's too early to say what the final story will be...

Agreed. Personally i cannot wait to get my teeth stuck into the events .

 

[Havard]

Ok. I've set up a small webpage for the Scenario

You can download the beta scenario to have a look, and use it to work on events and stuff...

Known problems:
- I get a db error on load... One free beer to the one who can track down that error
- It looks like you cannot have spaces in the moddir path - unzip to the root...
- The flags for Vinland and Micmac are missing - uses something else for now
- The Vinland shield need a rework - I'll look at it tonight (or tomorrow)
- The micmac.ai file is just a copy of vinland.ai - need work.
- More work needed on events and stuff...

Some observations:
- The early explorers need to be cut drastically down in time... I managed to discover the Zapotecs in the 1420-ies
- I think maybe we should cut the colonizing down a bit for Vinland.ai... While playing the Micmacs they sent three colonists on jan 1st 1419

Please let me know if there are any installation problems!

 

[Languish]

Originally posted by Havard
Ok. I've set up a small webpage for the Scenario

You can download the beta scenario to have a look, and use it to work on events and stuff...

Known problems:
- I get a db error on load... One free beer to the one who can track down that error
- It looks like you cannot have spaces in the moddir path - unzip to the root...
- The flags for Vinland and Micmac are missing - uses something else for now
- The Vinland shield need a rework - I'll look at it tonight (or tomorrow)
- The micmac.ai file is just a copy of vinland.ai - need work.
- More work needed on events and stuff...

Some observations:
- The early explorers need to be cut drastically down in time... I managed to discover the Zapotecs in the 1420-ies
- I think maybe we should cut the colonizing down a bit for Vinland.ai... While playing the Micmacs they sent three colonists on jan 1st 1419

Please let me know if there are any installation problems!

1. Love the website, great work! Some credit to me and Krunch would be pretty neat as well

2. Don't know whats causing the DB error. I also get other errors when loading the actual scenario (is it because i am unpatched?). I am using a UK edition. I seemingly had to manually chuck everything in because i cant use the moddir option yet right?

3. Crashed after 1 year.

4. Events, looking forward to collaborating on that

5. From what little time i had to explore i agree it was frighteningly too good. Sailed into the gulf of mexico, but could have easily gone "elsewhere" as well.

More to come as i patch and experiment further, but it's a start!

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Havard
Ok. I've set up a small webpage for the Scenario

You can download the beta scenario to have a look, and use it to work on events and stuff...

Thanks Havard. The 1.05 patch has been released today so I look forward to trying it after I get EU2 to the latest version....

Originally posted by Havard
Known problems:
- I get a db error on load... One free beer to the one who can track down that error
- It looks like you cannot have spaces in the moddir path - unzip to the root...
- The flags for Vinland and Micmac are missing - uses something else for now
- The Vinland shield need a rework - I'll look at it tonight (or tomorrow)
- The micmac.ai file is just a copy of vinland.ai - need work.
- More work needed on events and stuff...

I'll see if I can figure that error out.... and not just for the free beer.

Originally posted by Havard
Some observations:
- The early explorers need to be cut drastically down in time... I managed to discover the Zapotecs in the 1420-ies
- I think maybe we should cut the colonizing down a bit for Vinland.ai... While playing the Micmacs they sent three colonists on jan 1st 1419

Please let me know if there are any installation problems!

I agree... Didn't we discuss this earlier about them colonizing too much? I think the reason they sent out so many colonists on thejanuary 1st is because they have a bunch of money in their treasury at startup. That money could be reduced or eliminated to slow that down... and the ai file of course should be tweaked.

If you reduce some of their known provinces at startup that might help the rapid exploration, as they would have more to explore....

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Languish


1. Love the website, great work! Some credit to me and Krunch would be pretty neat as well

2. Don't know whats causing the DB error. I also get other errors when loading the actual scenario (is it because i am unpatched?). I am using a UK edition. I seemingly had to manually chuck everything in because i cant use the moddir option yet right?

3. Crashed after 1 year.

4. Events, looking forward to collaborating on that

5. From what little time i had to explore i agree it was frighteningly too good. Sailed into the gulf of mexico, but could have easily gone "elsewhere" as well.

More to come as i patch and experiment further, but it's a start!

1. Of course. I'll put up some more info on next update (it's not really "public" yet...)
2. The errors are most likely because you are unpatched. I have used some of the new triggers introduced 1.05. About the moddir: You should have no problems just putting the files in with the rest. The reason I want to use the moddir is to be free to edit any common files
3. Hm... could that be the event trouble? Try removing the 'relations' triggers...
4. Sure
5. As I mentioned - the explorers must be cut down. A year - top!

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch
Thanks Havard. The 1.05 patch has been released today so I look forward to trying it after I get EU2 to the latest version....

I'll see if I can figure that error out.... and not just for the free beer.

Did I mention that you have to come here to claim it?

I agree... Didn't we discuss this earlier about them colonizing too much? I think the reason they sent out so many colonists on thejanuary 1st is because they have a bunch of money in their treasury at startup. That money could be reduced or eliminated to slow that down... and the ai file of course should be tweaked.

If you reduce some of their known provinces at startup that might help the rapid exploration, as they would have more to explore....

I suggest a tweak of the ai file for the colonization, and cutting down the time for the explorers...

 

[unmerged(8451)]

I took the Micmac ai file and edited a bit. I adjusted their prefered areas for expansion and their nations to go to war with. And I reduced their warmongerness to 40... the Hurons Delaware and Iroqoius are on their fight list, I also left England and France who should be in the area eventually... I don't know if I should have included Vinland on their natiosn to fight list... so for now they aren't on it. And I set the amount of colonists they send out to zero...

## Micmac AI
# by Captain Krunch

# preferred areas for expansion

continent = { North America }
region = { "North America" }
area = { America Acadie Maine }

# The amount of provinces we try to colonize at the same time
expansion = 0

# % of the time we prefer to establish a tradingpost if both are good.
tradingpost = 80

# Bonus for areas to establish colonies adjacent to previous ones.
neighbour = 50

# Bonus/Penalty for establish colonies adjacent to other countries.
enemies = 5

# 100 = max trader rate, lesser means slower focus on sending a trader.
traders = 100

# 100 = Total monopolist, will refuse trade as much as possible.
monopoly = 20

# 100 = Total warmonger, 0 = absolute pacifist
war = 40

#Which countries to conquer if possible. (to guide nation historically)
combat = { HUR ENG FRA HOL U10 }

 

[unmerged(8451)]

The province.csv file included with the scenario may need some editing... I don't think we want the provinces owned by Vinland to have Abenaki culture, especially their capital... and the religion of these provinces should be changed too.