Vinland Fantasy Scenario

[Havard]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch
I took the Micmac ai file and edited a bit. I adjusted their prefered areas for expansion and their nations to go to war with. And I reduced their warmongerness to 40... the Hurons Delaware and Iroqoius are on their fight list, I also left England and France who should be in the area eventually... I don't know if I should have included Vinland on their natiosn to fight list... so for now they aren't on it. And I set the amount of colonists they send out to zero...

Looks good.

I suggest we include Vinland on the "hit list". After all - Newfoundland is Abenaki too...

Maybe Lenape/Iroquis should be dropped? It's quite far from the Micmac "homeland".

I have a few suggestions for the Vinland ai:

## Vinland AI
# by Captain Krunch

# preferred areas for expansion

continent = { North America }
region = { "North America" Carribean }
area = { America Acadie Greenland Labrador "Hudson Bay" Quebec Maine Newfoundland Bermuda }

# The amount of provinces we try to colonize at the same time
expansion = 1 (To slow down and consentrate colonization)

# % of the time we prefer to establish a tradingpost if both are good.
tradingpost = 70 (More emphasis on traing posts?)

# Bonus for areas to establish colonies adjacent to previous ones.
neighbour = 50

# Bonus/Penalty for establish colonies adjacent to other countries.
enemies = 5

# 100 = max trader rate, lesser means slower focus on sending a trader.
traders = 100

# 100 = Total monopolist, will refuse trade as much as possible.
monopoly = 70 (A bit more monopolistic?)

# 100 = Total warmonger, 0 = absolute pacifist
war = 80

#Which countries to conquer if possible. (to guide nation historically)
combat = { DEL OHI HUR DAK CHE CRE AZT MAA EIR SCO ENG FRA HOL SPA POR }
(The Aztecs and Mayas?)

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Havard


Looks good.

I suggest we include Vinland on the "hit list". After all - Newfoundland is Abenaki too...

Maybe Lenape/Iroquis should be dropped? It's quite far from the Micmac "homeland".

I have a few suggestions for the Vinland ai:

## Vinland AI
# by Captain Krunch

# preferred areas for expansion

continent = { North America }
region = { "North America" Carribean }
area = { America Acadie Greenland Labrador "Hudson Bay" Quebec Maine Newfoundland Bermuda }

# The amount of provinces we try to colonize at the same time
expansion = 1 (To slow down and consentrate colonization)

# % of the time we prefer to establish a tradingpost if both are good.
tradingpost = 70 (More emphasis on traing posts?)

# Bonus for areas to establish colonies adjacent to previous ones.
neighbour = 50

# Bonus/Penalty for establish colonies adjacent to other countries.
enemies = 5

# 100 = max trader rate, lesser means slower focus on sending a trader.
traders = 100

# 100 = Total monopolist, will refuse trade as much as possible.
monopoly = 70 (A bit more monopolistic?)

# 100 = Total warmonger, 0 = absolute pacifist
war = 80

#Which countries to conquer if possible. (to guide nation historically)
combat = { DEL OHI HUR DAK CHE CRE AZT MAA EIR SCO ENG FRA HOL SPA POR }
(The Aztecs and Mayas?)

I agree with all those suggestions.

The Aztecs and Maya would be preferred targets by a human player though... All that gold.

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch
The province.csv file included with the scenario may need some editing... I don't think we want the provinces owned by Vinland to have Abenaki culture, especially their capital... and the religion of these provinces should be changed too.

I've fixed that in the scenario file:

province = {
    id = 118
    whiteman = yes
    culture = "scandinavian"
    religion = hinduism
    }

province = {
    id = 119
    whiteman = yes
    culture = "scandinavian"
    religion = hinduism
    }

province = {
    id = 120
    whiteman = yes
    culture = "scandinavian"
    religion = hinduism
    }

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch


I agree with all those suggestions.

Ok. I'll update the files here.

The Aztecs and Maya would be preferred targets by a human player though... All that gold.

But does the human player use the ai files? I think not...

 

[unmerged(8451)]

I just played a quick game as Vinland up until the game crashed to desktop... that was a big disappointment, because I had hopes the CTDs would be gone in 1.05.

But anywat here is what happened... I set up a colony in chesapeake using the starting 75 gold Vinland starts with. When the january 1st 1420 came around, I only got 4 gold in tax incomes for the entire year... it rather limits what you can do substantially... and this is with the CoT. I would hate to think how bad things would be for them without that CoT. Anyway, I pushed towards level 1 infrastructure, and that bumped my yearly income from 4 to 5 gold coins.

The Lenape declared war on me immediately and I sent my total army of 2000 to defend my colony at chesapeake.. I won about 4 battles against their superior army (due to my conquistador) but then my army was annhilated due to their superior numbers. I didn't have the money necessary to reconstruct my army, at least not without taking a loan.

Before the game crashed, the outward/inward expansion event fired... I think this may actually have been the cause of the crash. I think the effects of this event needs to be toned down drastically.. I copied the effects from the Chinese event, and obviously thousands invested in trade means a whole lot more to Vinland than it would to China. So the amount of money invested needs to be toned down....

But I did enjoy the atmosphere of the game. It does give a good impression of actually being in control of Vinland... In my next game as Vinland I know that I'll need to use my starting money for an army and go with conquest instead of peaceful expansion. More territory will mean more money...

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch
I just played a quick game as Vinland up until the game crashed to desktop... that was a big disappointment, because I had hopes the CTDs would be gone in 1.05.

Strange... I haven't had crashes for ages...

But anywat here is what happened... I set up a colony in chesapeake using the starting 75 gold Vinland starts with. When the january 1st 1420 came around, I only got 4 gold in tax incomes for the entire year... it rather limits what you can do substantially... and this is with the CoT. I would hate to think how bad things would be for them without that CoT. Anyway, I pushed towards level 1 infrastructure, and that bumped my yearly income from 4 to 5 gold coins.

The Lenape declared war on me immediately and I sent my total army of 2000 to defend my colony at chesapeake.. I won about 4 battles against their superior army (due to my conquistador) but then my army was annhilated due to their superior numbers. I didn't have the money necessary to reconstruct my army, at least not without taking a loan.

Before the game crashed, the outward/inward expansion event fired... I think this may actually have been the cause of the crash. I think the effects of this event needs to be toned down drastically.. I copied the effects from the Chinese event, and obviously thousands invested in trade means a whole lot more to Vinland than it would to China. So the amount of money invested needs to be toned down....

But I did enjoy the atmosphere of the game. It does give a good impression of actually being in control of Vinland... In my next game as Vinland I know that I'll need to use my starting money for an army and go with conquest instead of peaceful expansion. More territory will mean more money...

I agree that some of the events need some more tweaking, along with a few other things...

A short HO AAR
I started a "hands off" game with Dakota to see how the AI behaves. Short summary:

Dec 1419: Vinland ships in Chearapeake Bay
Jan 1420: Vinland DoW Micmac!
Jul 1421: Geirröðr gerpir discovers an island to the far south, and names it... Guadeloupe!
Nov 1422: Vinland now have 1330 soldiers in Micmac territory - controls all of it (unfortified) except the capital where 13300 warriors are dancing the dance of war, creating strong medicine.
Jul 1424: The Micmac tribe cedes the territories of Gaspesie and Acadie to the Vinlanders for peace
1425: Vinland soldiers land in Guadeloupe and Curacao
1425: Geirröðr gerpir discovers Brazil!
1426: ...and Argentina on his way...
1427: ...through the Magellan Strait to...
1428: ...discover the coast of Oregon!
Dec 1429: Þorvaldr helluflagi arrives in Winisk as the bottom of Hudson Bay, after travelling by land from Belle Isle.

This made me look more on the AI files, and I think this is the problem:

continent = { North America }
region = { "North America" Carribean }

If we drop these lines they will still focus on the areas defined...

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Havard

Strange... I haven't had crashes for ages...

I agree that some of the events need some more tweaking, along with a few other things...

A short HO AAR
I started a "hands off" game with Dakota to see how the AI behaves. Short summary:

Dec 1419: Vinland ships in Chearapeake Bay
Jan 1420: Vinland DoW Micmac!
Jul 1421: Geirröðr gerpir discovers an island to the far south, and names it... Guadeloupe!
Nov 1422: Vinland now have 1330 soldiers in Micmac territory - controls all of it (unfortified) except the capital where 13300 warriors are dancing the dance of war, creating strong medicine.
Jul 1424: The Micmac tribe cedes the territories of Gaspesie and Acadie to the Vinlanders for peace
1425: Vinland soldiers land in Guadeloupe and Curacao
1425: Geirröðr gerpir discovers Brazil!
1426: ...and Argentina on his way...
1427: ...through the Magellan Strait to...
1428: ...discover the coast of Oregon!
Dec 1429: Þorvaldr helluflagi arrives in Winisk as the bottom of Hudson Bay, after travelling by land from Belle Isle.

That is a bit alarming, this is the same problem I've noticed many times with the China ai. I think it's part of the problem of the no attrition for ai than anything else. Because a human player has to return to port and start over again, so he can't explore as much as the ai can.

Originally posted by Havard
This made me look more on the AI files, and I think this is the problem:

continent = { North America }
region = { "North America" Carribean }

If we drop these lines they will still focus on the areas defined...

Should probably change them for the micmac ai too... just in case.

 

[Languish]

Looking good so far, however some issues/amendments/concerns/notes:

1. I'd preferably like to lower the Micmac warmongerness to lower than 40 (unless of course 40 is low enough? Is it?). The Micmacs were not an overly warlike tribe, and only went to war when either threatened, or required to defend themselves. Later on in scripting events for them border clashes with the Huron will be scripted, as will a historical war in the early 17th century against aggressive tribes in penobscot.

2. Are they starting as hindu religon (i.e. Norse Mythology?)... If so cool, and agreed that they should have scandinavian culture. The addition of abenaki culture will come if they go with the heresy event we have discussed in the 1450's.

3. In the brief game I played, like Krunch, I had a CTD. I have since reinstalled EU2 principally to have a clean installation for the update to 1.05 (w/ scenario editor). I plan to try it again then (hopefully tonight?). I am not overly concerned about it, but am more worried about this db error on start up.

4. Slighlty concerned that immediately, in krunch's game, you can go to chesapeake and set up a colony in the current beta. I think we should heavily cut back on explorers (to focus in the homeland area) certainly for the first few decades and try to concentrate on scripting good events with the micmacs and hurons. We already have a rich, if unscripted, history up until the widower queen and should focus the player on that. I personally feel that when you go either military or merchant you should be appropriate awarded with an "expidition(s)" reflective of that decision. This allows you to expand, before conventional european colonisation, but not so that you dominate the entire north american continent before 1492... That’s just how I see it.

5. It sounds like the money and starting situation, financially, is excellent. The player isnt immediately wealthly and maintains only a slight advantage over their immediate neighbours. Additionally it conjured up the right feeling and atmosphere according to krunch. Cool!

6. In your (harvard's) hands off game I was surprised to see vinland go for the micmacs immediately (starting relations should be high imho), but pleased to see they could pull off a good enough victory against them. Ideally the planned "skraeling wars" event will occur almost immediately when you start the game and should perhaps tame both player/ai in their attitude with the Micmac, or sanction such activities legitimately (at least for the first few years). This event will be given good attention by me.

So far though, it looks great!

Now that we have a workable version of the scenario, and a scripted monarch list and some basic events I think we should seriously focus on the events. Personally I'd like us to tackle it logically without jumping ahead to far straight away. I.e. we start now and work up to the heresy event, and then deal with the reamifications of going military/merchant, and later the republic.

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Languish
Looking good so far, however some issues/amendments/concerns/notes:

1. I'd preferably like to lower the Micmac warmongerness to lower than 40 (unless of course 40 is low enough? Is it?). The Micmacs were not an overly warlike tribe, and only went to war when either threatened, or required to defend themselves. Later on in scripting events for them border clashes with the Huron will be scripted, as will a historical war in the early 17th century against aggressive tribes in penobscot.

It should be no problem to lower the warmonger rating. IIRC 40 is "quite" aggressive...

2. Are they starting as hindu religon (i.e. Norse Mythology?)... If so cool, and agreed that they should have scandinavian culture. The addition of abenaki culture will come if they go with the heresy event we have discussed in the 1450's.

The Hinduism i supposed to be asa-beliefs/odinism. I'll change name and graphics on it for the next beta release... This could be a problem if the Vinlanders end up in India, but then you're playing so OOC that you're asking for it

3. In the brief game I played, like Krunch, I had a CTD. I have since reinstalled EU2 principally to have a clean installation for the update to 1.05 (w/ scenario editor). I plan to try it again then (hopefully tonight?). I am not overly concerned about it, but am more worried about this db error on start up.

I think the db error is from some tinkering I've done in text.csv or country.csv... I haven't had any crashes because of it though.

4. Slighlty concerned that immediately, in krunch's game, you can go to chesapeake and set up a colony in the current beta. I think we should heavily cut back on explorers (to focus in the homeland area) certainly for the first few decades and try to concentrate on scripting good events with the micmacs and hurons. We already have a rich, if unscripted, history up until the widower queen and should focus the player on that. I personally feel that when you go either military or merchant you should be appropriate awarded with an "expidition(s)" reflective of that decision. This allows you to expand, before conventional european colonisation, but not so that you dominate the entire north american continent before 1492... That’s just how I see it.

I agree. The current set of explorers and conquistadors are partly too many, and certainly living too long (I mean - Vinlanders in Oregon after 9 years? )

5. It sounds like the money and starting situation, financially, is excellent. The player isnt immediately wealthly and maintains only a slight advantage over their immediate neighbours. Additionally it conjured up the right feeling and atmosphere according to krunch. Cool!

Yep. I like the starting position too

6. In your (harvard's) hands off game I was surprised to see vinland go for the micmacs immediately (starting relations should be high imho), but pleased to see they could pull off a good enough victory against them. Ideally the planned "skraeling wars" event will occur almost immediately when you start the game and should perhaps tame both player/ai in their attitude with the Micmac, or sanction such activities legitimately (at least for the first few years). This event will be given good attention by me.

IIRC I haven't set any starting relations yet (thus, it was 0). Might help to raise the relations a bit, yes. The Vinland-Micmac war was a bit silly, really. The Vinlanders had at no time more than 3000 men in their territory. They beat the shit out of much larger Micmac amies, but couldn't take the capital (lv.1 fortress). The reason they did so well was because the other Micmac provinces were not fortified...

So far though, it looks great!

Now that we have a workable version of the scenario, and a scripted monarch list and some basic events I think we should seriously focus on the events. Personally I'd like us to tackle it logically without jumping ahead to far straight away. I.e. we start now and work up to the heresy event, and then deal with the reamifications of going military/merchant, and later the republic.

Yep. I think it's time for some events

 

[unmerged(8303)]

I feel so dumb!

I have looked on the internet and in my history books but I can't find 'Vinland'. What is it? Some native american tribe?

 

[Havard]

Re: I feel so dumb!

Originally posted by jaronpinochet
I have looked on the internet and in my history books but I can't find 'Vinland'. What is it? Some native american tribe?

It is a Fantasy scenario...

Vinland is the name the Norse gave a part of the land they discovered to the west of Greenland (i.e. North America). Excavations at L'Anse aux Meadown in Newfoundland has confirmed that the Norse did try to settle in North America around 1000 AD. This scenario is a "what if" where the settlements thrived instead of dwindle away as they did historically.

 

[Languish]

Re: I feel so dumb!

Originally posted by jaronpinochet
I have looked on the internet and in my history books but I can't find 'Vinland'. What is it? Some native american tribe?

Vinland was a temporary viking colony in newfoundland that never lasted more than a few decades before being abandoned. This scenario is designed around the hypothesis that it continued to be settled and occupied.

Whats possibly confusing you is the inclusion of the Micmacs who were a native american tribe occupying nova scotia, acadia and new brunswick at that time.

Hope this helps.

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Havard
The Hinduism i supposed to be asa-beliefs/odinism. I'll change name and graphics on it for the next beta release... This could be a problem if the Vinlanders end up in India, but then you're playing so OOC that you're asking for it

It's a shame that the makers of this game didn't throw in a few unused user defineable religions.... What are your ideas on the Icon to be used? I would suggest Thor's hammer or an image of Yggdrassil.

What does OCC mean?

Originally posted by Havard
I think the db error is from some tinkering I've done in text.csv or country.csv... I haven't had any crashes because of it though.

I figured something out about that DB error... I installed the Vinland scenario over the 1.05 patch and it must have overwritten something. Just out of curiousity I reinstalled the 1.05 over the vinland scenario... and there was absolutely no DB error whatsoever...

The only problem (and this is minor) is that the country definition was missing. It labeled Micmac and Vinland both as "user defined". But other than that it loaded and played without a problem...

The DB error is not immediately fatal, but I suspect it could have something to do with the CTD me and Languish experienced later on in the game.

Originally posted by Havard
I agree. The current set of explorers and conquistadors are partly too many, and certainly living too long (I mean - Vinlanders in Oregon after 9 years? )

I also agree... I suggest removing the explorer Vinland gets at startup. Or moving him back to a later date...

Originally posted by Havard
IIRC I haven't set any starting relations yet (thus, it was 0). Might help to raise the relations a bit, yes. The Vinland-Micmac war was a bit silly, really. The Vinlanders had at no time more than 3000 men in their territory. They beat the shit out of much larger Micmac amies, but couldn't take the capital (lv.1 fortress). The reason they did so well was because the other Micmac provinces were not fortified...

Oh but you have set starting relations.
I peeked inside some of the files and in one I noticed they start with +100 relations with Norway and -100 with Micmac. I don't object to the Norway relations, but if we are to assume that Vinland and Micmac are on favorable terms with each other then I think it should be +100 rather than -100. They could even be given a royal marriage or alliance starting out to prevent conflict until Micmac can build fortresses in it's provinces...

Originally posted by Havard
Yep. I think it's time for some events

I think I'll start a new thread just for events. As this one gets so many posts that the events will be buried after a day or so.

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Languish: I briefly looked over your events, and things seem good so far. I'll look at them in more detail later..

By the way, I made a thread just for events. So you might want to repost the events there, because here they might get buried...

 

[Languish]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch
Languish: I briefly looked over your events, and things seem good so far. I'll look at them in more detail later..

By the way, I made a thread just for events. So you might want to repost the events there, because here they might get buried...

Thanks, and already have.

Feel free to edit them as necessary

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Languish


Thanks, and already have.

Feel free to edit them as necessary

I reposted my outward/inward event, that is now lost somewhere in this thread... It definitely needs alot of work, as the effects were designed for China. I would like to hear what changes people think should be made to it.. I think it would probably be best if we fix existing events before moving on to new ones.

What do you think?

 

[unmerged(8303)]

Krunch

I am a big fan of your inca events and I cannot wait for this scenario to be finished!! I have a question though. If this is a european colony are you going to use the europe style building or give them native style buildings and also my last question is what will the sprites be? Are you going to use european style soldiers with the pikes? Too bad you can't make new sprites for this

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch


It's a shame that the makers of this game didn't throw in a few unused user defineable religions.... What are your ideas on the Icon to be used? I would suggest Thor's hammer or an image of Yggdrassil.

What does OCC mean?

Birger Jarl (IIRC) made a shield with the "odin rune" on. I though we could use something like that - or the hammer

OOC = Out of character

I figured something out about that DB error... I installed the Vinland scenario over the 1.05 patch and it must have overwritten something. Just out of curiousity I reinstalled the 1.05 over the vinland scenario... and there was absolutely no DB error whatsoever...

The only problem (and this is minor) is that the country definition was missing. It labeled Micmac and Vinland both as "user defined". But other than that it loaded and played without a problem...

The DB error is not immediately fatal, but I suspect it could have something to do with the CTD me and Languish experienced later on in the game.

The db error is definitely from some files in the vinland zip, so it's no surprise overwriting them with 1.05 helped It could have to do with the fact that I included the IND sprites for the Micmacs in country.csv, and these are not present (see thread about that in the graphics forum) - I actually got alien sprites

I also agree... I suggest removing the explorer Vinland gets at startup. Or moving him back to a later date...

...or reducing him to a year... that way you can explore a couple of provinces.

Oh but you have set starting relations.
I peeked inside some of the files and in one I noticed they start with +100 relations with Norway and -100 with Micmac. I don't object to the Norway relations, but if we are to assume that Vinland and Micmac are on favorable terms with each other then I think it should be +100 rather than -100. They could even be given a royal marriage or alliance starting out to prevent conflict until Micmac can build fortresses in it's provinces...

Doh! Yes - I remember that now... I guess we can change that

I think I'll start a new thread just for events. As this one gets so many posts that the events will be buried after a day or so.

Good idea. I'll try to move over the events posted in this thread too .

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by jaronpinochet
Krunch

I am a big fan of your inca events and I cannot wait for this scenario to be finished!! I have a question though. If this is a european colony are you going to use the europe style building or give them native style buildings and also my last question is what will the sprites be? Are you going to use european style soldiers with the pikes? Too bad you can't make new sprites for this

Thanks.

Actually, I put in a request in the Graphics forum for a Viking warrior sprite, with a battle axe. I am just waiting hoping someone will take up the challenge in creating it.

I was also thinking about the buildings too. I was planning on putting in a request for some sod roof houses and maybe a longhouse for the capital building.

But I wanted to wait until the warrior sprite was finished before making another request...

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Havard
Birger Jarl (IIRC) made a shield with the "odin rune" on. I though we could use something like that - or the hammer

OOC = Out of character

I'm a bit concerned about the Hindu nations in India. But on the other hand, someone who is playing this scenario wouldn't be likely to be playing as Mysore when he could be playing as the great Vinland and the only difference is the name and graphic. of course, the effects will still be the same so it shouldn't hurt historical outcomes in that region.

Isn't Hinduism, as another Indoeuropean religion actually related to Odinism? Albeit a distant relation...

Originally posted by Havard
The db error is definitely from some files in the vinland zip, so it's no surprise overwriting them with 1.05 helped It could have to do with the fact that I included the IND sprites for the Micmacs in country.csv, and these are not present (see thread about that in the graphics forum) - I actually got alien sprites

That could very well be it. After patching over the scenario, I noticed that the sprites were now the standard European Halberder... not what you'd expect in a native american nation... But despite the minor annoyance of an incorrect graphics, the game itself ran smoothly...

Originally posted by Havard
...or reducing him to a year... that way you can explore a couple of provinces.

Doh! Yes - I remember that now... I guess we can change that

Good idea. I'll try to move over the events posted in this thread too .