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Vinland Fantasy Scenario

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I know this is a bit late but...

I like how your Vinland scenario is developing. However, the first thing I'm going to do before playing it is change the religion from 'hindu' to 'pagan' and script a few optional events to change to Catholic (or Protestant) after European contact. I know you're using hindu to approximate the old Norse Aesir/Vanir-worshipping folks, but the fact is that Norse religious 'institutions' were, well, hardly institutional and certainly not anywhere near as organized as Hindu. Religion was a personal thing in pre-Christian Scandinavia and there was no 'church' to speak of. Since 'pagan' in EU2 means 'anything which isn't Christian, Moslem, Hindu, Confucian, or Buddhist', this pretty much sums up the old Norse religion.

I'm not really sure why y'all have an objection to 'pagan' anyway. While the Europeans might not have seen a distinction, the pagans of Vinland aren't going to have anything like the religious beliefs of the pagans of the Skraelings - but this distinction only matters to the Vinlanders and the Skraelings, not to the Europeans (y'know, 'Europa Universalis', not 'World Universalis').

So to me, at least, pagan seems to be a perfect match. In fact, to me a pagan Vinland seems to be the most likely outcome of isolation. Very few Christians were on the voyages, and these Christians were anything but Catholic - e.g., organized church-going types. It's rather doubtful that Christianity would've survived 400 years when the majority of your mates, and every single Skraeling you encounter or trade with or hack in twain, think that a belief in a single god chock full of commands to not do this and not do that is rather odd, if not silly.

I'm not suggesting that anyone change anything at this late date - more work than it's worth and it'll be easier for me to alter the events to suit my tastes than for you to do it. But I am curious as to why 'hindu' was picked (I don't really see the rationalization explained in the last 15+ pages) and why there seems to be such a strong objection to pagan, or why people seem to be confusing the pagan Skraelings with the pagan Norse.

Pagans are pagans, boys - Europa Universalis. Whether they worship a not-too-bright hammer-wielding drunk or a crow with a nasty sense of humor won't make any impression at all on Christian 'by fire and sword' types.

Max
 
OK. I've started to look through the events here, starting from the top. I have some suggestions to make for most of them ;)

Reprisal Raids/The Skraeling War
I suggest a second option to the Micmac event, giving a "backdoor" for an eventual human player:
Code: 
    action_b = { 
        name = "No - try a peaceful solution" 
        command = { type = relation which = HUR value = 100 } 
        command = { type = stability value = -2 } 
    }
}

The Dreams Of Young Þorvaldr Helluflagi
Maybe I have mentioned it, but 'helluflagi' means "surprise-attack" and is referring to his death. Thus it wouldn't make much sense to use this name in the events when he is alive. I suggest Þorvaldr Bjarnason.

As you have mentioned - the event need tweaking...
1. I suggest we wait with the techgroup changes until later (European contact event).
2. I also think the DP changes need to be scaled down quite a bit (this event is not as cruxial to Vinland as its equivalent is to China).
3. tech investments likewise...
4. The first action should activate Þorvaldr as a conquistador
 
Originally posted by maxpublic
I know this is a bit late but...

I like how your Vinland scenario is developing. However, the first thing I'm going to do before playing it is change the religion from 'hindu' to 'pagan' and script a few optional events to change to Catholic (or Protestant) after European contact. I know you're using hindu to approximate the old Norse Aesir/Vanir-worshipping folks, but the fact is that Norse religious 'institutions' were, well, hardly institutional and certainly not anywhere near as organized as Hindu. Religion was a personal thing in pre-Christian Scandinavia and there was no 'church' to speak of. Since 'pagan' in EU2 means 'anything which isn't Christian, Moslem, Hindu, Confucian, or Buddhist', this pretty much sums up the old Norse religion.
Click to expand...
There is not reason really why hinduism was selected, but we do plan on renaming/resymbolizing it, so that it will fit better...

I'm not really sure why y'all have an objection to 'pagan' anyway. While the Europeans might not have seen a distinction, the pagans of Vinland aren't going to have anything like the religious beliefs of the pagans of the Skraelings - but this distinction only matters to the Vinlanders and the Skraelings, not to the Europeans (y'know, 'Europa Universalis', not 'World Universalis').
Click to expand...
But in the game they will be considered the same - that means royal marriages, vassalizations and diplo-annexations. By introducing a "new" religion we avoid all this... and create a more interresting scenario (IMO) :)

I'm not suggesting that anyone change anything at this late date - more work than it's worth and it'll be easier for me to alter the events to suit my tastes than for you to do it. But I am curious as to why 'hindu' was picked (I don't really see the rationalization explained in the last 15+ pages) and why there seems to be such a strong objection to pagan, or why people seem to be confusing the pagan Skraelings with the pagan Norse.
Click to expand...
See above...
 
MKJ: I like the Snorri Bjarnssen (sic) events, but I suggest we rename him to Snorri Bjarnason (;)). When is this supposed to happend? We need a Vinland event to trigger the event to check for religion, something like this:

Code: 
event = { #Not triggered if Vinland is Catholic#
    id = 17205 
    random = no 
    trigger = { religion = hinduism }
    country = U10 
    name = "The Travels of Snorri Bjarnason"
    desc = "One of the greatest Skalds of his age, Snorri travelled throughout 
Vinland and to the dismay of his family, all through the land of the 
Skraelings. In his journeys he learned to speak the speech of the 
Skraelings and became a man of great knowledge to the people of the 
land, who came far and wide to hear his fabulous sagas. This caused 
great interest in many of the Skrælings into the faith of Asa." 
    style = 1 
    date = { day = 1 month = january year = 14?? }

    action_a = { 
        name = "Let him travel" 
        command = { type = trigger which = 18201 } 
        command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 1 }
        command = { type = stability value = -1 } 
    } 
    action_b = { 
        name = "Forbid him to go" 
        command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = -1 }
        command = { type = stability value = 1 } 
    } 
}

# The legacy of Snorri Bjarnason #
event = { 
    id = 17206 
    random = no 
    trigger = { 
        religion = hinduism 
        event = 17205 
        }
    country = U10 
    name = "The legacy of Snorri Bjarnason"
    desc = "The legacy of the great skald Snorri Bjarnason have opened the 
skræling's minds. Should we use this to advocate Christianity?" 
    style = 1 
    date = { day = 1 month = january year = 14?? }

    action_a = { 
        name = "Yes. Send missionaries" 
        command = { type = trigger which = 18202 } 
        command = { type = cash which = -100 } 
    } 
    action_b = { 
        name = "No missioning" 
        command = { type = vp value = -10 }
    } 
}
 
Last edited:
A very humble suggestion about that event: change his first name. Snorri automatically and immidiately makes me think that it is some kind of pale copy of Sturlason. I know it isn't and it's a good event, but my brain obviously don't understand that :)
 
Languish: Random: Skraeling killed
I suggest:
- trigger on relations to the Micmac
- switch the two options, making internal judgement default instead of giving him over.

MKJ: Random?: Religious Rivalry
What should the triggers be?
 
What should the triggers be?
Click to expand...

I'll answer that as I gave the suggestion. To set the triggers I really need to know how it is going to be with religion (ie start, when can you change etc). As I have understood it, no final decision have been made.

If different provinces are going to be of different religion I suggest check whether the national provinces have the same religion - if not that event may trigger. A certain death date would be nice too. (you can see the story behind it a page back, then you might understand why I suggest the triggers to be like this)
 
I like how your Vinland scenario is developing. However, the first thing I'm going to do before playing it is change the religion from 'hindu' to 'pagan' and script a few optional events to change to Catholic (or Protestant) after European contact. I know you're using hindu to approximate the old Norse Aesir/Vanir-worshipping folks, but the fact is that Norse religious 'institutions' were, well, hardly institutional and certainly not anywhere near as organized as Hindu. Religion was a personal thing in pre-Christian Scandinavia and there was no 'church' to speak of. Since 'pagan' in EU2 means 'anything which isn't Christian, Moslem, Hindu, Confucian, or Buddhist', this pretty much sums up the old Norse religion.
Click to expand...


Not exactly, 'Pagan' in eu2 refers more to Animist beliefs like Wicca or Finnish shamanism, or of course, North American paganism. What we are trying to simulate is Polytheism, and the only pure polytheistic religion in EU2 is Hinduism. Hindus and Asa are closer religions structurally than say, Catholics and Jews, so it's close enough :) Even if they DO encounter indian Hindus, it would still work, since polytheistic nations usually got along great :)
 
In 'The Dreams Of Young Þorvaldr Helluflagi' I think the choices should be expansionist in "Dream of glories beyond the sun" or something, and the isolationist choice should be "we cannot spread ourselves too thin!"

expansionist: #these are vikings, the more they expand the less control they have#

Centralization -3
Aristocracy -2
Serfdom -4
Land -2
Quality -2
Offensive 3
innovative 2
colonists 3
wakes up the explorer, Þorvaldr Helluflagi (the only one Vinland gets :p)

isolationist: #hunker down on what we have#
Centralization 4
Aristocracy 2
Serfdom 2
Land 4
Quality 4
Offensive -3
innovative -3
colonists -4
random fortress improvement
 
Oh man, I just had to read through about a hundred posts since the last time I was on. :eek:

But I am very glad to see that people are getting along better now and that things are back on track once again. ;)
 
how about this after the unification of denmark-norway the danish nobles were eager to settle themselves in the new world. The most obvious claim was to attempt to assert Vinland was a part of Norway, thus a part of Denmark. The Danish King began to assert his claim.

(a) - Defy these false claims. [negative relation with denmark, maybe a CB or a CB from Denmark on Vinland I think the war command is too drastic here!]
(b) - Negotiate with Denmark. [lose 500 ducats and drop the matter]
c) - Submit to their claims. [trigger an inheritence event for denmark for Vinland]
 
I have edited my event "The Dreams Of Young Þorvaldr Bjarnason" in the code thread. I have made the improvements suggested by Havard and MKJ. It may still need improvements, but it is definitely alot better than it was.... Let me know if DP sliders need to be adjusted more or if tech investments need further reductions.
 
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