Alrighty. I remember that Confucianism was being discussed as being a generic religion for places across the world? Well, how about that Confucianism represents a mix of Christianity, Native American Paganism and Viking Aesir belifs in Vinland?
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I think its a sound idea, although I would also be happy to see the Vinlanders as Protestant, their small communities having also developed a Pope-less version of Christianity.
Yeah, they'll most likley convert to Protestantism or Reformed when they come into contact with the Europeans again and the reformation happens.
event = {
id = xxxxxxxxx
trigger = {
NOT = { year = 1500 }
}
random = yes
country = VIN
name = "Militia Formed"
desc = "Surrounded by natives in an unfamilliar land, the Vinlanders had to band together to defend themselves against attack with limited resources"
style = 0
action_a = {
name = "Great!"
command = { type = infantry which = -1 value = 500 }
}
}
Something like that?
id = xxxxxxxxx
trigger = {
NOT = { year = 1500 }
}
random = yes
country = VIN
name = "Militia Formed"
desc = "Surrounded by natives in an unfamilliar land, the Vinlanders had to band together to defend themselves against attack with limited resources"
style = 0
action_a = {
name = "Great!"
command = { type = infantry which = -1 value = 500 }
}
}
Something like that?
Made some more:
event = {
id = xxxxxxxxxx
random = yes
country = VIN
name = "Unexpected Arrival"
desc = "A ship has arrived in our ports, apparently it has been blown off course while sailing to Iceland."
style = 0
trigger = {
NOT = { year = 1500 }
}
action_a = {
name = "Great!"
command = { type = provincemanpower which = -1 value = 1 }
{ type = population which = -1 value = 100 }
event = {
id = xxxxxxxxx
random = yes
country = VIN
name = "Fishing Season"
desc = "Perhaps the biggest reason the Vinlanders survived was due to the bountiful supply of fish in the Newfoundland banks, and due to their Norse heritage, they were excellent fisherman."
style = 0
}
action_a = {
name = "Good catch!"
command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = 1 }
command = { type = treasury value = 50 }
event = {
id = xxxxxxxxx
random = yes
country = VIN
name = "Skraeling Raid"
desc = "Though for the most part, the natives were friendly towards the Vinlanders, some were even integrated into their society, there were a few tribes of the Micmac that openly attacked Vinlander settlements"
style = 0
}
action_a = {
name = "Curses!"
command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
command = { type = treasury value = -50 }
{ type = population which = -1 value = 100 }
event = {
id = xxxxxxxxxx
random = yes
country = VIN
name = "Unexpected Arrival"
desc = "A ship has arrived in our ports, apparently it has been blown off course while sailing to Iceland."
style = 0
trigger = {
NOT = { year = 1500 }
}
action_a = {
name = "Great!"
command = { type = provincemanpower which = -1 value = 1 }
{ type = population which = -1 value = 100 }
event = {
id = xxxxxxxxx
random = yes
country = VIN
name = "Fishing Season"
desc = "Perhaps the biggest reason the Vinlanders survived was due to the bountiful supply of fish in the Newfoundland banks, and due to their Norse heritage, they were excellent fisherman."
style = 0
}
action_a = {
name = "Good catch!"
command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = 1 }
command = { type = treasury value = 50 }
event = {
id = xxxxxxxxx
random = yes
country = VIN
name = "Skraeling Raid"
desc = "Though for the most part, the natives were friendly towards the Vinlanders, some were even integrated into their society, there were a few tribes of the Micmac that openly attacked Vinlander settlements"
style = 0
}
action_a = {
name = "Curses!"
command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
command = { type = treasury value = -50 }
{ type = population which = -1 value = 100 }
The Gonzo said:
Would have thought this happened in back in 1000 AD! So, while the event might be appropriate technically, it needs to have flavour for their current situation.
This project will hang together much better if you begin not with events, but with a stoyline. You will find it helps clarify your own ideas and gives others the context for any subsquent events you post.
Still want an conflict between Vinland and iceland, maybe give Iceland a couple of explorers in the late 1400s.
Or maybe the reverse. Maybe the Vinlanders, now mingled with native people, are NOT treated as savages by the first (Eire) Europeans. The Icelanders, instead, become their supporters.....
Iceland could perhaps be interested in acquiring a few colonies in north america, with or without the consent of Vinland?
Also, until Vinland turns christian, the realtions with Iceland are good, but when they turn reformed, Iceland gets mad (they still hate christians)?
Another possiblity, when the reformation comes, the grand ting brings about the question of allowing a few of these new reformed people to settle in Iceland. If yes, a chain of events with christians helpling Iceland with new innovations (medicine, writing (which Iceland, isolated without bibles, would prolly have lost with time, or perhaps they still use the futhark runes?), military innovations, new methods to preserve food etc perhaps moving Iceland to latin tech?), until after a while one of the bigger families in the ting converts, leading to christianity spreading fast, turnign Iceland into reformed. I don't believe they will be able to stay aesir forever...
Another idea: the Hansa, after establishing the north american company, need a reliable route to america, and they turn to Iceland. If the ting agrees, the Hansa will be allowed to build a small trading post in souther Iceland, but only for merchant ships to dock in. Iceland will get a naval boost, a trade boost, loads of money, and other neet stuff in the process. This trading post will decrease in importance though and by late 1600s, it will be closed.
Also, until Vinland turns christian, the realtions with Iceland are good, but when they turn reformed, Iceland gets mad (they still hate christians)?
Another possiblity, when the reformation comes, the grand ting brings about the question of allowing a few of these new reformed people to settle in Iceland. If yes, a chain of events with christians helpling Iceland with new innovations (medicine, writing (which Iceland, isolated without bibles, would prolly have lost with time, or perhaps they still use the futhark runes?), military innovations, new methods to preserve food etc perhaps moving Iceland to latin tech?), until after a while one of the bigger families in the ting converts, leading to christianity spreading fast, turnign Iceland into reformed. I don't believe they will be able to stay aesir forever...
Another idea: the Hansa, after establishing the north american company, need a reliable route to america, and they turn to Iceland. If the ting agrees, the Hansa will be allowed to build a small trading post in souther Iceland, but only for merchant ships to dock in. Iceland will get a naval boost, a trade boost, loads of money, and other neet stuff in the process. This trading post will decrease in importance though and by late 1600s, it will be closed.
HoChiMinh said:
Vinland would be very isolated from Europe, and Greenland would be to a certain extent. But Iceland would be perfectly reachable from Scotland or Norway, and indeed was visited by numerous European mariners in the Middle Ages, some of whom brought the Black Death to the island. Also, historically Iceland converted in about the 11th century under outside pressure, indicating that Europe still had considerable influence over the island. So how would Iceland have become so isolated that they didn't even know about books?
The Gonzo said:
Surely an isolated society are more likely to take their original catholicism and twist it over time...? Isn't this a classic cargo cult community, where the isolation creates a brand new belief, due to lack of constant reinforcement of the central thesis of christianity from Rome? Have they bibles with them? Can they read?
Surely a pagan religion is more likely...
I agree with mikl in general. I think that a multitude of potential religious endpoints can be rightly postulated. The only one that seems imporrible, is the original norse pagan faith and strict catholicism. It seems most likely that their faith would be effectively pagan, or else a form of Christianity that would not fall neatly into any category. The closest might be protestant, as it would no longer acknowledge the primacy of the archbishop of rome.
I would be happy with either the new-confucian paganism or protestant. Just not native american pagan, with the possibility for conversion that results in culture-change.
I would be happy with either the new-confucian paganism or protestant. Just not native american pagan, with the possibility for conversion that results in culture-change.
I was kind of thinking Iceland would have isolated themselves by choice from Christianity and Europe.
mikl said:
Well, I did say:
The Gonzo said:
I was saying that when contact is re-established with Europe, it would be possible that Reformed Christianity could start taking converts and be "forced" on the Vinlanders by European powers.
Bad experience of christianity?
Anyway, if Iceland is in and still aesir, it should definatley be pagan and not confucian, since the aesir faith is unorganized, and Iceland really should be an easy target for christians.
Well, I would hope that Vinland and Iceland wouldn't that easy be involved in the struggles of the great powers (not until they're attacked themselves). It would mostly be their own strife about who's the rightful owner of Greenland and the North Canadian coast.
So, the Vinland set up is in the latest beta, as you will all surely have read by now.
Now all those people calling for its inclusion need to get their heads down and start producing material for Vinland.
If nothing is done for it it will eventually be taken out, and I am working on other projects at present.
I look forward to your stories and events!
Matty
Now all those people calling for its inclusion need to get their heads down and start producing material for Vinland.
If nothing is done for it it will eventually be taken out, and I am working on other projects at present.
I look forward to your stories and events!
Matty
Okay, I was thinking about some events for Vinland, and this is what I came up with:
1420's: Increasingly bad climate and abandoning of southern colonies create an atmosphere of seething discontentment in Vinland. The General Bjarni Eiríksson declares that the Skraeling have caused it, an event.
A) We must destroy the Skraeling! (- innovativeness, - pop, - tax value, + stab, - RR, gain the services of Bjarni Eiríksson)
B) Turn a blind eye to their sufffering. ( a less harsh version of a, but without Bjarni Eiríksson)
C) We must help the Skraeling! (+ inno, no pop + tax loss, - stab, revolts)
1430's: Most of Greenland emigrates to Vinland because of the terrible winters, when they get to Vinland they are shocked at the Vinlanders corruption of Christianity with Skraeling and Aesir belifs. They immediatly set about converting Vinlanders to Catholic Christianity, an event.
A) The Greenlanders are right, we are Christian! (turn catholic, + inno, - stab, 3 provinces turn catholic, religious revolts +pop, trigger "Incorporation of Greenland")
B) Mold them with our current belifes! (turn reformed, + inno, -stab, 2 provinces turn reformed, 1 turn catholic, religious revolt + pop, trigger "Incorporation of Greenland")
C) They are harmless, let the Greenlanders preach! (1 province turn catholic + pop trigger, "Incorporation of Greenland")
D) How dare they insult our Ancestors! Put them to the Sword! (- inno, + stab, revolt, trigger "Incorporation of Greenland" )
Incorporation of Greenland would be just the annexation of the two Greenland provinces, if option D) was chosen they would be turned to Confucianism with a further pop loss. Also, a man called Eiríkr Þorvaldarson, who sailed back up to Vinland after the southern trading posts were abandoned, sails south to find her Skraeling wife he had left, an event.
A) A Noble quest, too bad he is crazy! (gain the service of Eiríkr Þorvaldarson explorer, + inno, gain 2 warships)
Don't worry, he'll only last a few years at the most.
More later.
1420's: Increasingly bad climate and abandoning of southern colonies create an atmosphere of seething discontentment in Vinland. The General Bjarni Eiríksson declares that the Skraeling have caused it, an event.
A) We must destroy the Skraeling! (- innovativeness, - pop, - tax value, + stab, - RR, gain the services of Bjarni Eiríksson)
B) Turn a blind eye to their sufffering. ( a less harsh version of a, but without Bjarni Eiríksson)
C) We must help the Skraeling! (+ inno, no pop + tax loss, - stab, revolts)
1430's: Most of Greenland emigrates to Vinland because of the terrible winters, when they get to Vinland they are shocked at the Vinlanders corruption of Christianity with Skraeling and Aesir belifs. They immediatly set about converting Vinlanders to Catholic Christianity, an event.
A) The Greenlanders are right, we are Christian! (turn catholic, + inno, - stab, 3 provinces turn catholic, religious revolts +pop, trigger "Incorporation of Greenland")
B) Mold them with our current belifes! (turn reformed, + inno, -stab, 2 provinces turn reformed, 1 turn catholic, religious revolt + pop, trigger "Incorporation of Greenland")
C) They are harmless, let the Greenlanders preach! (1 province turn catholic + pop trigger, "Incorporation of Greenland")
D) How dare they insult our Ancestors! Put them to the Sword! (- inno, + stab, revolt, trigger "Incorporation of Greenland" )
Incorporation of Greenland would be just the annexation of the two Greenland provinces, if option D) was chosen they would be turned to Confucianism with a further pop loss. Also, a man called Eiríkr Þorvaldarson, who sailed back up to Vinland after the southern trading posts were abandoned, sails south to find her Skraeling wife he had left, an event.
A) A Noble quest, too bad he is crazy! (gain the service of Eiríkr Þorvaldarson explorer, + inno, gain 2 warships)
Don't worry, he'll only last a few years at the most.
More later.