West Africa EEP

[Garbon]

As requested, (and since I was going to anyways) here is the West Africa EEP thread.

1440

*Image coming back soon Boomspeed doesn't like remote linking anymore*
1520

Nations

Songhai-SON
Benin-BEN
Ashanti-ASH
Kongo-KON
Mali => Bambara-Macina (no tag change)-MAL
Dahomey-DAH
Oyo-U09
Hausa States or Hausa => Fulani Empire based in Sokoto (no tag change)-U08
Mossi-U07
Timbuktu-BAN
(Futa)-has been axed in favor of Tlemcen(North Africa) and sparsity of resources

Current Setup Changes

Rebel forces no longer control Timbuktu
Songhai starts off with only Gao & Say
Hausa has Zaria, Nupa, and Kano
Oyo has Oye
Benin has Nigeria, Accra, and Ivoria
Mossi has Ouagadougou
Mali has Jenne
Kongo knows of Zanzibar instead of Ivoria
Timbuktu becomes default CoT (over Ivoria)
Timbuktu added as revolter
Oyo and Benin in alliance till 1466

City of Oye changed to Oyo
City of Accra changed to Benin
Walata province represent Bambuk
Jenne province represents Bure
Bambuk province represents Jenne
Bure province represents Ouagadougou

Songhai is pagan and becomes sunni in 1496
Mossi is pagan
Timbuktu is sunni
Hausa is sunni
Oyo is pagan
Ouagadougou(Bure) and Say start off as pagan

Current Issues

Fall of Mali
Rise of Songhai
Fall of Songhai
Modeling Fulani migration (use senegambian culture)
Rise of Sokoto
Simulating transition of Ivoria from Benin to Dahomey to Oyo
Representation of Hausa culture
Province goods in Hausa states
Monarchs & graphics for new nations
Many AIs
Implementation of Leone CoT

Finished Additions
Monarchs for Hausa
Flags & Shields for Oyo
Flag for Timbuktu
Shields for Hausa
Religious Setup
Political Setup
Descriptions for Timbuktu, Oyo, Hausa, and Mossi
...and thats about it

garbon

Current New Event totals:

MAL-4
SON-8
BAN-1
U07-2
U08-0
U09-0
ASH-0
DAH-0
BEN-0
KON-5

Thanks to Birger Jarl, mfigueras, and Languish for graphics

 

[Garbon]

Religious Map & Justifications for New Nations

Religious Setup 1419

Old Justification for Hausa and Oyo


Ok here goes.

The area currently covered by the psuedo-nation of Benin is Yorubaland and Parts of the Hausa States. As with much of the map, the region of present-day Nigeria is horribly squashed. The province of Kano is really part of Northern Nigeria. Here's a map to show this. Note the distance between Oyo and Kano.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/nigerian.elections/stories/overview/link.nigeria.map.gif

Focusing on Yorubaland, Oyo was the most prominent kingdom in that area. Oyo eventually vassalized Dahomey and was a major kingdom when it came to the slave trade. Benin was a lesser power and didn't really do much during this time period. In the very worst case scenario (and what looks like is going to be done in the AGC) is that Oyo should replace the nation of Benin. This gives Oyo some respect but isn't really good because both nations existed. Ideally Oyo should start off in Oye. Benin should start with Accra (renamed to Benin), Ivoria, and Nigeria. Eventually Ivoria should come under the control of Dahomey and in 1750ish become part of Oyo.

Moving on to the Hausa is more complex. The Nupa province is actually the location of the state of Nupe and Kano being the state of Kano. Nupe was not a part of the Hausa States but following the model that Kano should be pushed northward, Nupa would be in the realm of the Hausa States. Knowing its hard to push one province minors, I suggested/suggest making Kano and Nupa the Hausa States.

Looking historically, the Hausa States bordered (and some became part of) a nation, Kanem Bornu. Basically Kano mushed with the Borno state (PTI). This nation knew the route from Nigeria to Nubia and developed relations with Ottoman Empire. Eventually the nation moved its capital to Sokoto.

Now to look at what this means in-game. Sokoto is the capital of the Zaria province in-game. Therefore, it should eventually become part of the Hausa States. The Hausa States could eventually become a way to deal with the fall of Songhai, with the two most eastern provinces (Zaria and that other one) becoming part of them. Not only that, but the Hausa States were introduced to Islam sometime between the 11th century and the 14th century. Therefore if not in the beginning they should be a sunni state which differs them greatly from Benin/Oyo.

As posted earlier I have a list of Monarchs for Kano and also ones for Zaria, Nupe, and could easily acquire one for Kanem Bornu. I also have a partial list of monarchs for Oyo. I also have a shield set for both hypothetical nations, so all that is needed is support.

I know that African nations aren't popular but with luck these additions and subsquent events could make it a much more interesting area.

garbon

 

[unmerged(1302)]

Good job, Garbon.

So, you need 2 extra tags, right? Use U09 and U08 for those 2 nations and playtest them. What I'm concerned with is that one of them will become way to powerful and swallow the rest. It will probably require to create a separate AI for each of them to behave more realistically than they do now (sit and do nothing).

 

[Shadowstrike]

Unless I'm mistaken, Ashanti and Dahomey weren't the size they are on the GC's map in 1419. Neither was Benin for that matter. Having large swaths of Mali and Songhai covered by PTI doesn't help either. Historically, the region was probably as bad as the HRE in terms of micro-nations, but that would be kind of hard to represent on the EU map.

 

[Garbon]

Originally posted by Shadowstrike
Unless I'm mistaken, Ashanti and Dahomey weren't the size they are on the GC's map in 1419. Neither was Benin for that matter. Having large swaths of Mali and Songhai covered by PTI doesn't help either. Historically, the region was probably as bad as the HRE in terms of micro-nations, but that would be kind of hard to represent on the EU map.

Oh they definitely weren't that big. Ashanti was really just a handful of various clans.

The difference however between setup in the nations Ashanti and Dahomey and the setup in Benin, is that Benin never reached its size in the EU map during 1419. Dahomey and Ashanti eventually did reach these sizes, with both exceeding them somewhat, as well. Thats why most African nations should start as very decentralized (to represent that the nation was not so large or cohesive at this period) and eventually achieve more and more centralization. I'm just attempting the best I can in the limitations placed upon the West Africa region.

The only exception to this case, is the added Oyo nation. It was known for its very bizarre high degree of centralization and organization. This centralization decreased as Oyo became an empire.

Making a correction on my earlier post. Kanem-Bornu did not absorb the Hausa States. What actually happened is that Kanem-Bornu succumbed to the the Fulani Empire which eventually absorbed many Hausa States and founded its capital at Sokoto.

I'm wondering about what to do about the religious setup in the Hausa region. It seems as though, Islam took some hold in its provinces though typically among the elite. However, its rulers had a combination of Islamic and Animist views. So maybe the state religion should be Sunni with the provinces pagan.

garbon

 

[unmerged(1302)]

I'm wondering about what to do about the religious setup in the Hausa region. It seems as though, Islam took some hold in its provinces though typically among the elite. However, its rulers had a combination of Islamic and Animist views. So maybe the state religion should be Sunni with the provinces pagan.

Yes, do it this way. SEAsian countries are setup in a similar manner.

 

[Garbon]

Okay, here is the results of the early tests of the additions of Hausa and Oyo.

Test 1

Hausa quickly joined Songhai in an alliance along with Benin.

Songhai declared war on Ashanti & Dahomey. Benin allianced hopped and fought against Songhai & Hausa. After being crushed repeatedly by Dahomey, Hausa dropped out. Ashanti fell asleep and Benin & Dahomey tore apart Songhai. Hausa also declared war on Oyo and accepted 89 ducats after failing to besiege Oye.

Test 2

In Test 2, I added Oyo in an alliance with Benin, to protect it. Allied till 1433. I also decreased relations between Hausa & Songhai to -100.

In a strange twist, Songhai joined Oyo and Benin, in their alliance, and got them to fight Dahomey and Ashanti.

Test 3

Gave Oyo -100 relations with Songhai so that Songhai wouldn't join alliance. Kept all previous changes as well. Only war that errupted was between Mali & Ashanti. Benin stayed with Oyo until 1433. It then joined Ashanti & Dahomey until 1446. Then it joined back with Oyo.


Overall I think this shows promise that ai files may not have to be added, at least for Oyo.

Need to push Dahomey to take Ivoria though.

I'll post the country files and such later.

garbon

 

[Shadowstrike]

Aye. The Benin problem is probably bigger and more important in this case. I applaud the addition of the Hausa and the Oyo nations, though of course I'd dream of seeingg an HRE-ized region. (day-dream). Perhaps the destability of the region could be reflected with flat revolt risk events that would promote the interneccine instability and empire-crushing? Or would that just mess up the AI?

On a seperate note, it would be nice to see Songhai rise and fall. As is, Songhai is either a monster, or gets eaten up by Benin given time. Perhaps the more historic rise and collapse could be modeled via events?

Shame that Lake Chad and Kanem-Bornu is off the map... That will cause them to not have the effect they did historically - perhaps they could be "represented" by rebellion events and if border provinces get taken, then they would "revolt" in that province? I'm uncertain about this.

 

[Garbon]

More testing

Upon more testing I have come up with the following setup changes.

Alliance between Oyo and Benin till 1466. Oyo acts as alliance leader.

Relationship Hausa & Songhai -100
Relationship Oyo & Songhai -100

Oyo starts with Oye and cb on Oye.

Hausa starts with Kano and Nupa. Has cbs on Kano and Zaria. Also knows of COT in Alexandria as traded with Mameluks. This is really just cosmetic as Hausa quickly gets booted out if it ever places a merchant.

Benin starts with Ivoria, Accra, and Nigeria. Has a cb only on Accra.

Both Benin and Oyo start with only 75 ducats in treasury to prevent early warmaking.

Tested a Timbuktu COT but only made Songhai too powerful. Hausa, Benin and Oyo stayed pretty much silent up into the early 16th century.

I need to work on making Dahomey want to and execute taking Ivoria from Benin.

garbon

 

[unmerged(1302)]

A cot in any province but Ivoria will shift the trade from Kongo to Kansai and Zacatecas.

 

[Garbon]

Originally posted by Crook
A cot in any province but Ivoria will shift the trade from Kongo to Kansai and Zacatecas.

Actually I had a COT in Ivoria and Timbuktu. Ivoria wasn't that important pre-Portugal and also there was more than one trading center in the area. Unfortunately, this setup doesn't work unless I weaken Songhai more.

garbon

 

[Garbon]

Here is my tag conserving version of what should happen in West Africa.

In 1419, the Mossi states should control Bambuk and Bure (not unified state but rather nomads, place holder until 1500). Zaria should be part of the Hausa states. Mali should consist of Walata, Jenne, Segu, Niani, Guinea, Ardagost and Timbuktu. Timbuktu should fall from Mali to Songhai in the 1450's (event). Segu, Niani, and Guinea should fall to the Mossi States around 1450 (fall of Mali). Mali's capital should become Ardaghost. The rulers of Mali retreated at this period.

Meanwhile (1473), Songhai should rise to prominence grabbing Jenne, Walata, Segu, Guinea, Bambuk, Niani, and Zaria. The Mossi should remain in Bure until a vassalization to Songhai, (script annexation by event).

Upon the fall of Songhai the Mossi states should regain autonomy in Bambuk and Bure. Zaria should go to Hausa. Walata, Guinea, Niani, and Jenne should re-join Mali. Sense this region really wasn't united, Mali should be very decentralized and a very, very weak nation.

Around 1710, the nation of Segu Bambara (Mali tag) should form with a capital in Segu. Just capital change and massive improvements to nation.

This plan simply calls for the addition of a Mossi nation and helps better represent the dynamics of West Africa.

garbon

 

[unmerged(1302)]

You don't need to conserve tags yet, we have tons unused so far. As I said, if you need 2-3 -- grab the for now.

 

[Garbon]

Originally posted by Crook
You don't need to conserve tags yet, we have tons unused so far. As I said, if you need 2-3 -- grab the for now.

Looks like best setup I can manage.

garbon

 

[Garbon]

Okay, so I did more research and I can do better.

Apparently the Bambara kingdoms arose in 1650. They controlled the provinces of Segu and Niani. Awdaghost became part of the Futa Toro kingdom after fall of Songhai.

Therefore, upon its fall, Songhai should be reduced to Say.

Mali never truly was obliterated until 1700's so when Songhai falls, Mali can return with capital in Niani, owning Jenne, Segu and Niani. In 1650, Mali can change to simulate the Bambara kingdoms (capital move to Segu but no tag change).

A nation of Futa Toro (Idea inspired by MKJ), should start the campaign owning Louga. When Mali collapses, Futa Toro should gain Awdaghost. Then upon the fall of Songhai, Futa Toro should gain Walata (ahistorical but there is no one else for this province to be owned by).

Is the XHO tag used? Otherwise it can become the Futa Toro nation.


Ideally by the end of the campaign the provinces will be allocated as so.

Futa Toro: Louga, Awdaghost, and Walata
Bambara-Macina(Mali): Jenne, Segu, and Niani
Ashanti: Mossi and Leone
Dahomey: Begho and Palanas
Mossi: Bambuk and Bure
Morocco: Timbuktu and Gao (with permanent revolt risks)(captured in 1730's by Tuaregs)
Benin:Accra and Nigeria
Oyo: Ivoria and Oye
Sokoto Caliphate (Hausa): Zaria, Nupa, Say and Kano

Finally Mali should not own Guinea as it should be colonized by Portugal.

garbon

 

[unmerged(1302)]

XHO - I don't think it's used. You can use BAN for sure.

 

[Garbon]

So yeah, I can't get it to work so I'm going for the traditional method.

Here is the link to the newer look for West Africa in 1419.
Also there are the shields for Hausa and Oyo.

This includes Mossi and Futa Toro.

In early testing, Mali is found to need to use peaceful.ai and have bad relations with Songhai for area to stay civil before Mali's fall.

West Africa 1419

garbon

 

[unmerged(1302)]

No shields to see...

 

[Garbon]

Edited. How annoying, it worked before. Oh well.

garbon

 

[Garbon]

Now more than ever, I support an extra CoT in Timbuktu.

Without this, and Songhai's weakened setup, Songhai barely manages to stay alive let alone build and empire. Comparing times with CoT and without, Songhai performs much better with the CoT in Timbuktu.

Need to hurt Mossi as it gets too powerful to early, after taking prov's from Mali.

garbon