• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Originally posted by Fate
In 1520 do you know which provinces Portugal should have TPs or colonies in?

I don't really know for I haven't much looked into that yet. I'd say at least Guinea and Douala, though I don't know whether tp or colony. The problem is that places like Ivoria where Portugal held some sway are owned by native nations. The provinces are too (not two :eek:) large and all-encompassing...:(

garbon:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Ivoria is a definitely a very tough call.
 
Here's basically the play by play of my most recent set of events.

In 1433, Timbuktu begins revolting to simulate Tuareg take-over. If Mali fails to keep Timbuktu from rebel control from 1433 to 1443, then Mali sets Timbuktu free. Tuareg then has an event to setup the nation (basically to remove the vassal status). In 1444 if Mali still controls Timbuktu (hopefully impossible), it then gains back its core on the province.

In January 1466, Songhai gets an event to take over Timbuktu. Once Timbuktu is taken over, Songhai gets an event simulating the looting of the city.

In February 1466, Songhai gets an event allowing it to decide whether to attack Mali immediately, save its claim, or focus on Hausaland. Choices B&C trigger an event giving Mossi a chance to take on Mali if Songhai hesitates. Choice C will sleep the new(shortly to be posted) event sequence on what to do with the Mossi.

1480ish, Songhai will get an event to fight the Mossi (unless they are vassalized). Then if Mossi is conquered, then there is another event.

During this, if Mali gets in a war with Songhai or Mossi starting around mid-century, Mali will move its capital to Niani and lose some cores.

garbon:cool:
 
I've pretty muched finalized events for Songhai and Mali during the 15th century Basically just re-hashings of the events that I've posted earlier.
I've also finished the 1419 setup of West Africa. Who knew that -100 relations between all the pagans would keep West Africa quiet during the 15th century.

To be usable, I still need to get monarchs for Oyo, Tuareg, and Futa. I just need to code the monarchs for Mossi.

I also need to get flags for Futa, Mossi, Hausa, and Tuareg. I need to get shields for Futa and Tuareg.

I'm wondering if the nation Tuareg should be re-stylized and called the nation of Timbuktu. Not really true, but then this would represent the Tuaregs from 1433-1468, the Moroccan Pashas from 1589-1670, Segu rulers from 1670-1787, and then the Tuaregs from 1787 to the end.

garbon:rolleyes:
 
Descriptions for new states sin Futa
U07_DESC;Five Mossi states existed between the Volta River and the great bend of the Niger river. During the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, the Mossi ranged far beyond the boundaries of their states. In 1338, they ravaged Timbuktu and thereafter prevented the expansion of Mali and Songhai while continuing to threaten the rich trading cities of the north. In 1480, the Mossi had reached as far as Walata and caused considerable trouble for the great conqueror Sunni Ali. Although pressured by Songhai, from the north, and the Ashanti confederation, from the south, the Mossi states maintained their religion, system of government, and a large area of stability in the open savannah lands south of the Niger until the coming of the French in the latter nineteenth century.;;;;;;;;;;????

U08_DESC;The first seven Hausa cities were Biram, Daura, Kano, Zaria, Gobir, Rano, and Katsina. Eventually, the states of Zamfara, Kebbi, Nupe, Gwari, Yauri, Kororofa, and Illorin were added once Hausa influence spread. Despite the richness of their folklore and the existence of chronicles of the kings of Kano and Katsina dating to 1100, little is known of this early period. During the fifteenth century Kano was the most important of the Hausa states, although its rulers paid tribute to the kingdom of Bornu. In the sixteenth century, Hausaland became a battleground among Bornu, Songhai, and the Junkun empire. Partially due to this, Kano lost its economic supremacy to the rival city of Katsina. Eventually in the early nineteenth century, Usuman dan Fodio created the first united empire in Hausaland.;;;;;;;;;;????

U09_DESC;Located in modern-day Niger, a settlement existed at Oyo around 1100 A.D. It appears to have developed into a small kingdom in the late 14th century or early 15th century. Throughout the 16th century, Oyo was in a constant state of war with rivaling states of Nupe and Borgu. At one point, Nupe took and destroyed Oyo forcing the Oyo to flee, only to return when they grew stronger. In the late 17th century, the armies of Oyo proceeded to bring all of Yorubaland under the control of the alafin, or king, of Oyo. From 1747 to 1818 the kings of Dahomey paid annual tribute to the alafin. Eventually the Oyo empire collapsed due to the growing authoritarianism of the alafin's court combined with a breakdown in central administration.;;;;;;;;;;????

BAN_DESC;In 1433, Timbuktu declared its independence from Mali. The town had been founded by Berbers around 1096 but became any important town only in the 14th century when it became a center of trans-Saharan trade for the Mali Empire. Taken over by Songhai, during the reign of Sunni Ali Ber, the city would regain its autonomy following its conquest by Morocco. At first the pashas, appointed by the sultan of Morocco, went along with the desires of the sultan but by middle to the late years of the 17th century, the pashas declared complete independence from Morocco. Eventually the city would fall prey to raiders, specifically the Bambara, Tuareg, and Fulani.;;;;;;;;;;????
 
Originally posted by Shadowstrike
http://rulers.org/nigatrad.html

I stumbled across this on the Internet. Coudl this be of any use?

I love this site!:D My Kano monarchs are loosely based of this. I have a post in some thread with those exact Oyo monarchs, though the problem is, that I don't know what to do for pre-1728 when they don't list anything. At thats a huge chunk of the game right there.


garbon
 
based on my map of trade routes of the time (1350 -1450), I think that Algeirs, Tunisia, and maybe even Ethiopia should know about Timbuktu.
The Hausa States might know about Ethiopias capital also, and maybe the province of Tripoli. Since the the provinces of Kano and Nupa are too small, maybe you can adjust province tax and population to reflect gains and losses in the PTI area.


This site seems to have some information on the area
http://africanhistory.about.com/gi/...tp://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CIVAFRCA/GHANA.HTM

one event that I can think of is centralizing effect for Benin from Eware the Great.

Others could be giving Oyo, Dahomey, and Benin the choice of wether to take part in the slave trade. Saying yes could cause rebelions to represent wars to capture slaves, saying no would increase province tax maybe but worsen relations with the european powers.

Portugal could also have an event in which they decide wether to use slavery in the americas. If they do things stay the same, but if they don't the west african kingdoms and Kongo would get an upgrade to their tech level and a higher likely hood of becoming christian. This being a result of Portugal continuing to treat the africans as equals. With no slavery the populations should probably increase in the whole area. This would also put Portugal at odds with most of europe since they would likely still use slaves. Though since the Portuguese treated them so well the whole of western africa would likely come under their control and stay there from connections of religion and maybe even royal mariages.


And while not part of this thread, since you run the apprpreate thread this map shows Tunisia controling at least Kabylia, and maybe Aldjazer and Aures http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1400.htm

also wanted to say keep up the good work, it will hopefully be appreciated by all
 
Without slavery I have a hard time seeing how the Portuguese would make common cause with native rulers. It seems to me that if for some reason they decided they weren't going to have slaves they would simply have disengaged from most of Africa, with the exception of the gold coast. But even there their interests would be much lower.
 
Well the first site said that the Portuguese and african treated each other as eaquals and that african nations sent diplomats and scholars to Lisbon and even Rome. My thinking is that the Portuguese didn't start enslaving them, then the Pagan nations would continue sending diplomats and scholars and eventually become Catholic and have their tech heavily advanced. The Portuguese then enter into royal marriages with them. Eventually the african kingdoms have some events where other european nations start raiding for slaves. Portugul then has the option to defend them. If they do, then the west african nations enter into vassalage to represent the defense Portugul is providing. Since Portugul will have some TPs in the area they will be able to diplomatically annex them eventually leading to a large area of west africa under their contol with little resentment on the part of the natives.
 
I don't think that's the way it worked. The Portuguese befriended and armed the local nations they encountered on the coast. They expanded into the interior capturing slaves, which they could then sell to the Portuguese (or other Europeans) for further arms and such. By and large the Europeans had very good relations with the Africans they encountered, and used them to get slaves. As the Africans used the Europeans to expand their territory and power. Very symbiotic and very nasty.

I don't think you'll find too many cases where Europeans did the actual enslaving. They had the locals do it for them.
 
Yep, the Africans who encountered the Europeans were befriended because those Africans captured slaves for the Europeans.

In any event, this is a bit too hypothetical for me to currently invest a lot of work in. I'm just getting into the 16th century:D

I'll look into that stuff about trade routes though. Currently I have Hausa knowing about Alexandria as they did trade there.

garbon:cool:
 
I think that Kongo shouldnt know about niether Ivoria nor Timbuktu. It should have knowledge of Zanzibar since it traded across africa to the east, not up the coast.
 
Originally posted by RepublicofGenoa
I think that Kongo shouldnt know about niether Ivoria nor Timbuktu. It should have knowledge of Zanzibar since it traded across africa to the east, not up the coast.

Can you verify this?

Also, I've been thinking that maybe the COT should start out in Timbuktu with one being added in Ivoria, if the Portuguese manage to take Ivoria. Obviously, Portugal will need event help but I think this makes more sense, because prior to Portugal, Ivoria wasn't really a trading center.
 
garbon151@aol.com

I check this one most often.

Still working on West Africa mess, I think I've changed my mind a bit about what West Africa should look like. I'll post a few maps with different layouts. (If only I had enough provinces:( )
 
On this note:

kongo.jpg



Note trade routes of Kongo go east (brown lines)

I suggest a removal of the Ivoria CoT. Give Kongo knowlede of...is it Zanzibar? Have Timbuktu as default CoT insted of Ivoria. Of coure, we need to make sure that the trade in Kongo goes to the right CoT.
 
Dredging up the past

Going back, I finally found what I was looking for. With permision, I think these events (altered a bit to fit proposed setup), would be great for West Africa.

Code:
[font= courier new][color=white]######## Songhai Events ######## 
######## By Suleyman ######## 




#Griots in the Songhai royal court# 
event = { 
id = 20451 
random = no 
country = SON 
name = "Griots in the Songhai royal court" 
desc = "Griots are the historians and bards of the Songhai. By way of music and story-telling, they preserved the oral traditions and history of their people and enstilled a strong sense of cultural pride within the kingdom. As the Songhai empire grew, many such bards were brought into the royal courts in Gao, Jenne and Timbuktu." 
style = 1 
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1443 } 
offset = 10 
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1445 } 

action_a ={ #Ok# 
name = "The griots sing of our glorious past!" 
command = { type = infra value = 200 } 
command = { type = stability value = 2 } 

} 
} 





#Crusades of Sunni Ali Ber# 
event = { 
id = 20452 
random = no 
country = SON 
name = "Crusades of Sunni Ali Ber" 
desc = "During the reign of Sunni Ali Ber, the Songhai began a series of military campaigns to reclaim the old kingdom of Mali, the homeland of their ancestors. More than a warrior-king, Sunni Ali was also successful in other reforms, primarily in expanding trade with neighboring kingdoms." 
style = 1 
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1467 } 
offset = 30 

action_a ={ #Ok# 
name = "Success to our Emperor!" 
command = { type = CAV which = -1 value = 9000 } 
command = { type = casusbelli which = MAL value = 60 } 
command = { type = relation which = MAL value = -50 } 
command = { type = domestic which = offensive value = 1 } 
command = { type = land value = 200 } 
command = { type = trade value = 200 } 

} 
} 





#Campaigns of Askia Muhammad I# 
event = { 
id = 20453 
random = no 
country = SON 
name = "Campaigns of Askia Muhammad I" 
desc = "Askia Muhammad Ture was responsible for expanding the Songhai empire to its greatest extent, consolidating all the former lands of the Mali empire while expanding towards the coast of the Sahel. Muhammad was a devout Muslim, and many of his wars were carried out in the name of jihad (holy war)." 
style = 1 
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1495 } 
offset = 15 

action_a ={ #Ok# 
name = "Let us conquer!" 
command = { type = domestic which = quality value = 1 } 
command = { type = CAV which = -2 value = 9000 } 
command = { type = land value = 250 } 
command = { type = addcore which = 1489 } 
command = { type = addcore which = 1491 } 
command = { type = addcore which = 1492 } 

} 
} 




#Reforms of Askia Muhammad I# 
event = { 
id = 20454 
random = no 
country = SON 
name = "Reforms of Askia Muhammad I" 
desc = "During his rule, Askia Muhammad carried out a series of reforms to strengthen his empire both politically and economically. By appointing the qadis (Muslim judges) he brought about an effective legal system to govern the vast Songhai realm." 
style = 2 
date = { day = 1 month = march year = 1502 } 
offset = 15 

action_a ={ #Ok# 
name = "Conservative Reforms" 
command = { type = stability value = 2 } 
command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 } 
command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 1 } 
command = { type = infra value = 300 } 
command = { type = trade value = 100 } 
command = { type = ADM which = 2 value = 60 } 

} 

action_b ={ #Ok# 
name = "Progressive Reforms" 
command = { type = treasury value = 200 } 
command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 1 } 
command = { type = domestic which = serfdom value = -1 } 
command = { type = infra value = 100 } 
command = { type = trade value = 300 } 
command = { type = ADM which = 2 value = 60 } 

} 
} 






#Death of Askia Muhammad# 
event = { 
id = 20455 
random = no 
country = SON 
name = "Death of Askia Muhammad" 
desc = "Our emperor has been murdered by his own sons! His own heir ascends the throne by force and violence. Our realm is in turmoil!" 
style = 2 
date = { day = 1 month = september year = 1528 } 
offset = 3 

action_a ={ #Ok# 
name = "Askia Muhammad was murdered! The people will challenge an usurper." 
command = { type = stability value = -3 } 
command = { type = revoltrisk value = 7 } 
command = { type = revolt which = -1 } 

} 

action_b ={ #Ok# 
name = "Usurper or not, we must still support the Prince." 
command = { type = stability value = -1 } 
command = { type = vp value = -25 } 

} 
} 




#Local tribes demand autonomy!# 
event = { 
id = 20456 
random = no 
country = SON 
name = "Local tribes demand autonomy!" 
desc = "The elders from several tribes in our kingdom are demanding more autonomy. They do not like the oppressive rule of the Songhai emperor. Should we listen to their grievances?" 
style = 2 
date = { day = 1 month = march year = 1585 } 
offset = 30 

action_a ={ #Ok# 
name = "Crush any opposition!" 
command = { type = stability value = -4 } 
command = { type = revolt which = -1 } 
command = { type = revolt which = -1 } 

} 

action_b ={ #Ok# 
name = "I will listen to their demands." 
command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -1 } 
command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -1 } 
command = { type = treasury value = -75 } 

} 
} 





#Our enemy to the North# 
event = { 
id = 20457 
random = no 
country = SON 
name = "Our enemy to the North" 
desc = "Our enemy to the north covet our rich lands of gold and spice. We must not trust them." 
style = 2 
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1589 } 
offset = 10 
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1590 } 

action_a ={ #Ok# 
name = "Do not trust the barbarians across the northern desert!" 
command = { type = relation which = MOR value = -75 } 

} 
} 

#Prelude to tensions and possible war with Morocco in 1591 
[/color][/font]
 
Re: Dredging up the past

Re-posting btg's events here for organization's sake. Slight edits in bold.

Code:
[font= courier new][color=white]#The Conversion of Nzinga Nkuwa# 
event = { 
id = XXXXXX 
[b]trigger = { NOT = catholic }[/b]
random = no 
country = KON 
name = "The Conversion of Nzinga Nkuwa" 
desc = "Portuguese Catholics introduced Christianity into the territories they dominated along the western coast of Africa, yet missionaries also penetrated inland kingdoms, such as Angola. In the powerful realm of Kongo, a king was baptized in 1491. He rapidly repudiated the implications of this alien rite, but his son, baptised as Afonso, identified himself with Christianity. On his father's death (c. 1506), Afonso seized the throne, and before his own death in 1540, Catholicism had become a distinguishing, legitimising feature of his dynasty." 
style = 1 

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1491 } 
offset = 180 
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1491 } 

action_a ={ 
name = "Embrace the Catholic faith" 
command = { type = religion which = catholic } 
command = { type = relation which = POR value = 50 } 
command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 50 } 
command = { type = stability value = 2 } 
} 
action_b ={ 
name = "Keep to the religious practices of the ancestors" 
command = { type = relation which = POR value = -20 } 
command = { type = stability value = 2 } 
} 
} 


The stability increase in option A was added because there is no evidence that this conversion completely destabilized the kingdom, and the stability will still drop some. 


#São Salvador# 
event = { 
id = XXXXXX 
random = no 
country = KON 
name = "São Salvador" 
desc = "With the building of the Cathedral of São Salvador in Mbanza Kongo in 1534, this capital of the Kongolese kingdom became known as São Salvador, for the Holy Savior. In 1596, São Salvador became a diocese in its own right, with bishops appointed by the Portuguese crown." 
style = 2 
trigger = { 
OR = { 
religion = catholic 
religion = counterreform 
} 
} 
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1534 } 
offset = 180 
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1596 } 

action_a ={ 
name = "Ok" 
command = { type = gainmanufactory which = 1506 value = luxury } 
command = { type = provincereligion which = 1506 value = catholic } 
command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 50 } 
command = { type = relation which = POR value = 50 } 
command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 50 } 
command = { type = stability value = 1 } 
} 
} 
#An Embassy to Lisboa and a Bishop in São Salvador# 
event = { 
id = XXXXXX 
random = no 
country = KON 
name = "An Embassy to Lisboa and a Bishop in São Salvador" 
desc = "Hoping to increase royal influence over the church in Kongo, Alvaro II, a grandson of Afonso, sent his close relative, Antonio Vieira, to Lisbon in 1594 to negotiate the creation of a separate diocese for Kongo. His request raised few if any difficulties in Rome or Madrid, where Philip II of Spain was also king of Portugal since 1580. It was agreed that the expenses of the diocese would be met by Portugal and to a lesser extent by Kongo itself, while the bishops would be nominated by the Portuguese crown which thus retained the rights of ecclesiastical patronage granted to it by the papacy in the fifteenth century." 
style = 2 
trigger = { 
OR = { 
religion = catholic 
religion = counterreform 
} 
} 
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1594 } 
offset = 1000 
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1600 } 

action_a ={ 
name = "Send an emissary to Lisbon" 
command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 } 
command = { type = relation which = POR value = 20 } 
command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 20 } 
command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 20 } 
command = { type = diplomats value = 2 } 
} 
action_a ={ 
name = "Kongo doesn't need a bishop" 
command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 2 } 
command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = -1 } 
} 
} 
#Rebellion among the Bakongo# 
event = { 
id = XXXXXX 
random = no 
country = KON 
name = "Rebellion among the Bakongo" 
desc = "Adding to Kongo's troubles in the early 1600s was a general dissatisfaction among the Bakongo with their rulers, some of whom were greedy and corrupt. Consequently, conflicts arose over succession to the throne, and more and more sections of the kingdom gained substantial degrees of autonomy and established local control over the trade that had so enriched the monarchy in earlier years." 
style = 3 

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1610 } 
offset = 1000 
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1629 } 

action_a ={ 
name = "Oh, no!" 
command = { type = revoltrisk which = 24 value = 6 } 
command = { type = revolt which = -1 } 
command = { type = stability value = -3 } 
command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 } 
command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 } 
command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 } 
} 
} 
#Dona Beatriz Kimpa Vita# 
event = { 
id = XXXXXX 
random = no 
country = KON 
name = "Dona Beatriz Kimpa Vita" 
desc = "In 1704 a young Kongo woman called Dona Beatriz Kimpa Vita claimed to be possessed by St. Anthony and declared it her mission to restore Kongo to its former glory. Jesus, she claimed having learned from St. Anthony, was a black Kongolese, born in the Kongolese capital of São Salvador. She founded a church in São Salvador, which became very popular, but that invited criticism from the Catholic Church because she used traditional African religious practices that had been condemned by the European Catholic priests. She was burnt at the stake for heresy in 1706, on the order of Pedro IV of Kongo." 
style = 4 
trigger = { OR = { religion = catholic 
religion = counterreform } 
} 
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1704 } 
offset = 900 
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1706 } 

action_a ={ 
name = "She is a heretic!" 
command = { type = relation which = POR value = 50 } 
command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 50 } 
command = { type = stability value = -2 } 
} 
action_b ={ 
name = "Do not burn Dona Beatriz!" 
command = { type = relation which = POR value = -100 } 
command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -100 } 
command = { type = provincereligion which = -1 value = pagan } 
command = { type = provincereligion which = -1 value = pagan } 
} 
} 


I would also suggest changing Kongo's religion to "catholic" in all scenarios post-1492, as well changing the religion in province 1506 to "catholic" in those scenarios. 

Additionally, Kongo should probably have knowledge of the provinces of Tago/Lisbon (441), Castilla/Madrid (436), and Roma (399) in all post-1492 scenarios because of their sending diplomats to the king of Spain and Portugal as well to the pope. 
[/color][/font]
 
Last edited: