Whats the concensus on HOI2 MP?

[unmerged(17563)]

Is it playable? Frustrating, Unstable, stable what?

So far in my 7 player game I've found that it does have some minor problems but on the whole its very very stable and fun. Only probs seem to stem from rehosts from game saves that had lagging players, not being able to ehar tohers from behind certain firewalls and the ocassional crash from general play issues. Also its very demanding on connection speed, minmum seems to be a 128kbps upload speed.

Whats everyone else think?

 

[unmerged(31954)]

It's playable, frustrating, fun, unstable, stable. If you play on slower speeds than you used to play HOI 1, it is stable. But if you try to play at fast speeds, you will crash a lot, and eventually the game will die. Most if not all of the old HOI 1 MP bugs are still there, and a couple of new ones appear to have crept in. So, one puts up with a lot of frustration to play it.

Then there are all the game system illogicalities and absurdities that don't affect SP much, but which really mar the MP game, and the appalling lack of balance and implausibilities in the 36 scenario and lesser in the 39 scenario.

It is a very mixed bag.

 

[unmerged(14249)]

It can be frustrating and unstable but it's still playable. For example, the Monday evening game which is administered in the thread here went reasonably well this week.

Stability issues aside, I think the main problem for MP is that a full campaign takes so long. What a lot of players seem to want is a few hours play that would fit into an evening. The battle scenarios don't quite interesting enough for this. I wonder if one might have a smaller campaign scenario - perhaps the Chinese theatre with its many warlords and foreign settlements.

Andrew

 

[unmerged(17563)]

Our group plays for a few hours once a week on either Saturday or Sunday, yeah it takes a bit to get going but the buildup really is worth it, gets you fully immersed in your country, you know all the ins and outs of your army and leaders.

I'd give the MP a 7/10 with the potential for improvement very likely.

 

[boromir]

I agree with HerrGeneral. MP gets 3/10 in my book, and is currently a waste of time playing, primarily due to the lack of balance between the sides, the units, and general bugs (and I don't mean the network instability problems even though they can hurt even a LAN game). So unless 1.2 fixes many of these issues, HOI2 MP will just be good for a few laughs, which I personally had already. I can only hope for a miracle with 1.2 ...

 

[pedal2000]

One or two Crashes. I know I ran on Normal Speed with ~7-8 people for about....half a year. Before that though we have done stints of a year, to almost a year and a half before being cut off by time restraints.

 

[Kyril]

It seems to do allright for several game years as long as you keep the speeds between below normal for peace time, and on slow as soon as a war has started, very slow when it gets really busy. Even with this kept in mind, so far most of the games I played seem to reach a breaking point late 40 / 41 (in the 36 or 39 Campaigns). At that point, the game crashes for no apparent reason, and keeps doing this. Would be glad to hear of people being able to run the 36 scenario with 6 players beyond 41 without any significant problems.

OTOH, HOI2 is a huge advancement over HOI1. If Paradox is able to fix some balance issues, some bugs and increase overal stability, I will probably stick with it 'till HOI3.

 

[Camrik]

It seems to do allright for several game years as long as you keep the speeds between below normal for peace time, and on slow as soon as a war has started, very slow when it gets really busy. Even with this kept in mind, so far most of the games I played seem to reach a breaking point late 40 / 41 (in the 36 or 39 Campaigns). At that point, the game crashes for no apparent reason, and keeps doing this. Would be glad to hear of people being able to run the 36 scenario with 6 players beyond 41 without any significant problems.

OTOH, HOI2 is a huge advancement over HOI1. If Paradox is able to fix some balance issues, some bugs and increase overal stability, I will probably stick with it 'till HOI3.

I totally agree with Kyril. The only thing that prevents me from playing MP right now is the apparent bug in 40/41 that stops the game. Three games I was playing had to be stopped that way and that is frankly frustrating.

I am very confident that subsequent patches will improve overall balance and some of the gameplay issues. I just hope that fix that 40/41 bug.


Ghis

 

[Majorball]

Of course the 1936 scenario is going to be unbalanced but that is half the challenge as you as the Allies need to build a force to match what ever the Axis throw at you. If you knew what the axis was going to build or tech you could build accordingly but you dont. Games will become unbalanced as you build the wrong forces to take them on. The challenge is recovering to a position where you can. Whats the fun in playing a predictable balanced game all the time with the result certain before you start? Ok the game is a little unstable but we have found once war starts and its on slow speeds we have minimal crashes. Also when you lose a tech it means the host PC hasnt got it shown on their PC. So if you have a tech shown as researched and you cannot select the next one on the list pass this save to the host and you tech will be there. If you reload with the host save you will lose the tech forever.

 

[Orthank]

Of course the 1936 scenario is going to be unbalanced but that is half the challenge as you as the Allies need to build a force to match what ever the Axis throw at you. If you knew what the axis was going to build or tech you could build accordingly but you dont. Games will become unbalanced as you build the wrong forces to take them on. The challenge is recovering to a position where you can. Whats the fun in playing a predictable balanced game all the time with the result certain before you start? Ok the game is a little unstable but we have found once war starts and its on slow speeds we have minimal crashes. Also when you lose a tech it means the host PC hasnt got it shown on their PC. So if you have a tech shown as researched and you cannot select the next one on the list pass this save to the host and you tech will be there. If you reload with the host save you will lose the tech forever.

Currently 1936 is completely unbalanced due to the fact that Axis forces are uncapable to put enough divisions to threat SU. There is one game at HoIplayers where Germany crushed SU but only because of masterpiece of tactic and low expierience of SU player.

 

[Kyril]

Of course the 1936 scenario is going to be unbalanced but that is half the challenge as you as the Allies need to build a force to match what ever the Axis throw at you. If you knew what the axis was going to build or tech you could build accordingly but you dont. Games will become unbalanced as you build the wrong forces to take them on. The challenge is recovering to a position where you can. Whats the fun in playing a predictable balanced game all the time with the result certain before you start? Ok the game is a little unstable but we have found once war starts and its on slow speeds we have minimal crashes. Also when you lose a tech it means the host PC hasnt got it shown on their PC. So if you have a tech shown as researched and you cannot select the next one on the list pass this save to the host and you tech will be there. If you reload with the host save you will lose the tech forever.

The problem is, when playing Allies you do know what the Axis are going to do.
Germany: Poland, France, Denmark, Balkan (yugo, greece), any minor in Europe.
Italy: Albania, Yugo, Egypt, Iraq
Japan: China, DEI + Malaysia, India or Russia, Philipiness / US bases

So when playing:
France: divert al resources to defend against Germany.
UK: Build a fleet to protect isles, hamper movement in Med and being prepared for Japan. Protect Egypt, build airforce to kill Nav Bmb, have forces ready to switch to India when Med is secure.
US: Build fleet untill superior over Japan, when getting close to war build tons of troops.
SU: prepare everything from day one to defeat the Germans on land and a bit of air.

As the Allies know what will happen, they will prepare huge forces to counter it. Especially the Soviet forces in the 36 can rise to enormous strength just preparing and spawning tons of forces, all prepared to take on the Germs on the eastern front.

 

[unmerged(31954)]

Whats the fun in playing a predictable balanced game all the time with the result certain before you start?

LOL. Yeah, what's the fun in playing a game where both teams have a chance to win? It's much more fun to play when one side has an easy path to victory and the other side has almost no chance. That's so much less predictable than a game that could turn on the outcome of a single battle. Man, I hate those games!

:wacko:

 

[unmerged(22728)]

As i remember playing HoI there was no game-halting bugs, i noticed only one corrupt save in another game thread report when i was active at HoI-PA but never experince one myselfes.

Now in HoI 2 though, with 1.01 enhancement game halt dead after some sessions (3-5). If it due to certain mp-groups plays non-traditional and struck bugs that way or more about mp-group configuration i can't tell.

but its a fact several games started up at hoiplayers, is halted due to a corrupt save or date-specific bug.

i don't care about game-balancing.. that is possible to tweak yourselfes with mod.. reliable and less hang-ups should be a prio in a patch IMO. why would developers waste time on tweaking up SU power when we have unstable mp-play i don't get that

 

[Durruti (A)]

As i remember playing HoI there was no game-halting bugs, i noticed only one corrupt save in another game thread report when i was active at HoI-PA but never experince one myselfes.

Now in HoI 2 though, with 1.01 enhancement game halt dead after some sessions (3-5). If it due to certain mp-groups plays non-traditional and struck bugs that way or more about mp-group configuration i can't tell.

but its a fact several games started up at hoiplayers, is halted due to a corrupt save or date-specific bug.

i don't care about game-balancing.. that is possible to tweak yourselfes with mod.. reliable and less hang-ups should be a prio in a patch IMO. why would developers waste time on tweaking up SU power when we have unstable mp-play i don't get that

Well the death bug really is the most alarming problem with hoi2 mp as of now, game has to proceed on slow or vey slow during combat something that isabsolutely killing USSR and USA having to wait for hours upon hours. Well the new movement is attack and the quick battles add to the need for slow speeds ofcourse and that's a lot harder to solve i guess. If coop worked it might help though.


the balance issues are'nt very far behind... however easy it is modding the game balance we still need a reasonable official setup for casual gaming, paradox' scenarios will probably always be dominating in vnet. USA and USSR simply get ready for war too soon, both have too much ic to spend early, making us invent all those houserules. The 39 scenario is a lot more balanced than 39 ofcourse but still not quite satisfactory imo. As it is now germany cant afford to spend shite on navy / air if it's to stand a chance against a reasonably able USSR adding to the feeling that whatever the others do it's Germany vs USSR that counts. Now it could be argued that that was the case IRL but it's not very multiplayer friendly.

Another problem is the exploits... the serial run factory bug, the possibility for USSR and the allies to trade for supplies not having to spend any ic on them themselves, the forts, the subs in naval stacks, the overpowered nav bombers, the unit turns yours if ally has troops on your transports when saving and rehosting.. all that stuff that really hurts mp more than sp. But then again there will always be opportunities for exploits, hoi 106c had a few aswell and i could live with that.

The mp community has grown considerably upon the release of hoi2, i'd hate to see it shrink and die because of stability / balance issues... my verdict would be: this is a friggin promising game. o

 

[unmerged(14249)]

Well the death bug really is the most alarming problem with hoi2 mp as of now, game has to proceed on slow or vey slow during combat something that isabsolutely killing USSR and USA having to wait for hours upon hours.

I sent in a save from a game which had to be abandoned. I suppose that was the "death bug" but am not sure. Paradox couldn't reproduce the problem from the save. Either this means that the problem is fixed in 1.2 or the problem is unpredictable in some way.

Now, my question is whether you think there's some connection between the game speed and this bug? You imply this in your post but maybe that's just a misleading juxtaposition.

I'd like to get a better handle on what makes this occur so that we can beta-test to ensure that it's fixed in 1.2. Any clues or theories are welcomed.

Andrew

 

[Durruti (A)]

I sent in a save from a game which had to be abandoned. I suppose that was the "death bug" but am not sure. Paradox couldn't reproduce the problem from the save. Either this means that the problem is fixed in 1.2 or the problem is unpredictable in some way.

Now, my question is whether you think there's some connection between the game speed and this bug? You imply this in your post but maybe that's just a misleading juxtaposition.

I'd like to get a better handle on what makes this occur so that we can beta-test to ensure that it's fixed in 1.2. Any clues or theories are welcomed.

Andrew

well i often border superstition when trying to understand hoi heh... i think slow speeds have saved atleast two of the games i've played from the Death Bug.

(in the first games we just went on below normal like in 106c and game after game died)

 

[unmerged(22728)]

I sent in a save from a game which had to be abandoned. I suppose that was the "death bug" but am not sure. Paradox couldn't reproduce the problem from the save. Either this means that the problem is fixed in 1.2 or the problem is unpredictable in some way.

i also got a reply from the bugreport i sent in, they could not reproduce it in 1.02. Reply didn't mention they try to reproduce it in current 1.01. I'm a bit worried they might try to load up and try another contry than i specific told we had problem with. Cause if u load up *other country* than host had (Germany) game runs fine. But loadning up as host country game CTD at a specific date. Both from clients saves just after the host CTD and a host version save 2 weeks before game crash.. CTD on a specific date when load up host slot (Germany) in game.

that specific bug i reported could be bypassed, by release military control of a minor back to AI. So if you try to reproduce bug it doesnt allways show up if u try reproduc in SP cause other countries handled by AI. So u have to becarefull and find the country that causing hang-up when try to reproduce it or fill up all slots in the game.

host was co-op in this game. that adds another dimention to it aswell to test.

Now, my question is whether you think there's some connection between the game speed and this bug? You imply this in your post but maybe that's just a misleading juxtaposition.

i can insure speed was not cause to ower 'date-specific' bug, we run on low speed. and we tested a couple of previous saves also. all of them cant be corupt cause of lag client-host or buzzy host causing some weired save text file.

clients tend to drop and CTD less though if we run on slow speed, that seems to be the case.

I'd like to get a better handle on what makes this occur so that we can beta-test to ensure that it's fixed in 1.2. Any clues or theories are welcomed.

we have had some problem with some events also. game hang-up in return territory to Vichy. after rehost later game hung up in end of czechoslovakia event. but when we tried to reproduce it with only 3 players we manage to pass critical period with 3 events. Ok, next game session all players took possition. But Rumania player complained he couldnt move his troops in France. So he let AI handed his country and co-op Germany insteed. Result we no crasch occured this time during this time period.

my conclution is that AI is doing something correct that humans do wrong.

 

[mike8472]

Like what Bumblee Bee and Major have said here already. Our MP games are very stable, once everyone knows how to turn firewalls off, and aovid certain issues. Even with 7 players we can play on normal speed pre-war, above normal with a little lag, but normal is fast enough as there is plenty to do if yo play the game fully.

For instatance last night be played for 6 nearly 7 hours straight with only 1 reload. Thats is awesome in my books and extremely stable for any MP game. This is replicated in most of our games now with only a few reloads required. The only time we have found a number of crashes is when the Japan china war is raging and nationalist china annexes the minor chinas which casues some bugs with province the human Japan player is taking, reloads are required here. Note this does not happen if Japan is the host.

Playing MP and how stable it is depends on everyone connection, weo nly had real problems when people had less then 128kb upload speeds. We all have that as a min now and the host 256kb upload and a few other players. Also the host haveing large amounts of memory will also help smooth the game out.

I give MP 9/10 it is awesome when played with a dedicated group. It will get 10/10 with a few bugs resolved and a few game enhancements, probably with 1.2. Well done paradox.

 

[unmerged(31954)]

Now, my question is whether you think there's some connection between the game speed and this bug? You imply this in your post but maybe that's just a misleading juxtaposition.

Andrew, I'm in the games with Durruti and keeping it at slow from the moment war starts, whether much is happening or not, does appear to keep the death bug at bay. We cannot verify it for sure yet, but we were losing games in March 1940 trying to play on below normal, and we have one game now approaching December 1941 and still going strong. It does seem to work.

 

[Camrik]

Another problem is the exploits... the serial run factory bug, the possibility for USSR and the allies to trade for supplies not having to spend any ic on them themselves, the forts, the subs in naval stacks, the overpowered nav bombers, the unit turns yours if ally has troops on your transports when

I agree with everything except naval bombers. They are fine as they are. They were extremely dangerous in WW2 and naval commanders were very worried about them.

Keep them as they are.


Ghis