when we have some news?

[DJMT]

Well Transport Fever 3 was just announced so that's one potential city builder competitor struck off. That just leaves CityState 3 then which looks very early.

So only internal pressure for CO then to get a move on. Just like 10 years ago this genre could really do with a shake up.

 

[martin4444]

Well Transport Fever 3 was just announced so that's one potential city builder competitor struck off. That just leaves CityState 3 then which looks very early.

"In Transport Fever 3 your job isn’t to build cities, it’s to connect and serve them. You're not the mayor, you're the magnate."
According to EPIC Games anyway... so yeah, it's not going to be a direct competitor with CS2 as they don't focus on city building per say.
I never did get into TF2 as it was pretty boring, all you do is making trade/distribution routes and not much else.

 

[Codraroll]

PDX somewhat resurrected CS1 for last Christmas, after having said in 2023 they wouldn't release patches or DLCs for CS1 anymore. Ever. What's next? They could have some studio do a remastered CS1 with a new engine, fix the 5 most annoying things in the game, add the seasons and the 5 most popular mods plus a couple of DLCs. Considering the old CS1 is still the better game, such a remastered version would be a smash and a success for the next 10 years, exactly what CSII was supposed to be and still failling.

You're suggesting to "just" make a copy of an existing game in a new engine, with a few added systems the original code wasn't made to support? Trust me when I say that fixing CS2 is peanuts compared to starting all that from scratch again. You are basically suggesting that they make an entirely new game. And I question the business wisdom of making it more or less an exact copy of a game from 2015, which most fans of the franchise already own and which is frequently on sale for those who don't. The inclusion of some of the most popular mods would not be a sales argument either, because players can already install those for free in the game already.

If they're working hard and CSII is such a great promise, why is it still so poor after 17 months?

As you point out, it seems their ambitions outran their capabilities, possibly partially because they scrambled to add features that would distinguish the sequel from CS1. The game still contains the framework for supporting a lot of great features, though. If only they could weed out all the bugs...

 

[unoace1006]

Well. It seems we’re waiting another week at least. Tuesday or Wednesday are usually the days for patches. But since this may include B&P, there could be a 1 week lag between announcement and release.

If I had to make a guess I’m thinking we’re looking at a June 16th announcement and a June 24th release.

If they release B&P in the next week or two, it’s really unlikely another patch gets released before July 1 anyways. But it could give them some time to generate good press before summer break if the quality is good.

 

[Civ5rako]

But it could give them some time to generate good press before summer break if the quality is good.

If the quality is good, they cannot avoid good press. Well, maybe THEY can....

Anyway, under the assumption the DLC/patch combination would be good they could as well (almost) immediately go into their summer vacation. Then they could let the word of mouth work in their favor for once.
What would make their presence mandatory would be low quality, as they would have to rush out some hotfixes. Else another "Beach Properties" scenario would be likely to happen.

Apart from that I agree with your indicated schedule.

 

[Civ5rako]

You're suggesting to "just" make a copy of an existing game in a new engine, with a few added systems the original code wasn't made to support? Trust me when I say that fixing CS2 is peanuts compared to starting all that from scratch again. You are basically suggesting that they make an entirely new game. And I question the business wisdom of making it more or less an exact copy of a game from 2015, which most fans of the franchise already own and which is frequently on sale for those who don't. The inclusion of some of the most popular mods would not be a sales argument either, because players can already install those for free in the game already.

I have to disagree.

First of all, it wouldn't be "starting from scratch". The scope and the final product would be already clear in their shapes.
Nobody is asking for a 1:1 copy of CS1, that indeed would be a stupid move.

Does that mean it could be done in a year? No, not at all.
But half a year of basic design (determining which parts have to be improved or repaired [train traffic!!!] and which parts of which DLC/mods to include) should be sufficient to get things started. Of course the design phase wouldn't be over then as still things would have to be decided, but the main task of basic programming could already start.
Under a determined, capable leadership with programmers knowing what they are doing the realization phase could be done in around two years. Again, everybody would more or less already know how the final product should look (in terms of functionality and behaviour) which makes things a lot easier.

The game still contains the framework for supporting a lot of great features, though.

Does it?
Where is that framework and what great features if I may ask?
I haven't seen neither the first nor the latter so far.

The socalled framework is a code jungle in which even the current programmers of the developing company are getting lost. Constantly. Every time.
So, where does that legendary framework hide?

 

[pikachukaki]

Cheering? Positive reactions or sharing some information is cheering now? Woah - interesting!
Maybe you guys should get a private room - it will be a fun party I'm sure! Daily discussions of how bad things are by pointing to the same sames over and over sounds neat.

But yeah, it's only half the fun if you cannot point onto something someone with a different, maybe more positive point of view wrote to call it either "blabla", "low standards" or "bullshit", right?

I found my personal solution for this anyway as I don't need a constant reminder that there are bugs, thanks. It's something that keeps also my notifications clean and easy and my DMs shut

Farewell!

Yeah, I guess I'm not the life of the party—turns out I can't bring myself to cheer for something utterly meaningless when the core issue is still a flaming wreck. Adding a modder to a game that's barely even playable? That's like tossing a paper towel on a house fire and calling it progress. So no, I’m not clapping for that.

 

[nnnitram]

If they release B&P in the next week or two

not happening bud

 

[BoraBora]

You're suggesting to "just" make a copy of an existing game in a new engine, with a few added systems the original code wasn't made to support? Trust me when I say that fixing CS2 is peanuts compared to starting all that from scratch again. You are basically suggesting that they make an entirely new game. And I question the business wisdom of making it more or less an exact copy of a game from 2015, which most fans of the franchise already own and which is frequently on sale for those who don't. The inclusion of some of the most popular mods would not be a sales argument either, because players can already install those for free in the game already.

What I suggest is something several companies did, refresh an old game to give it a new life instead or in addition of a sequel. Sequels can be hit or miss. CS II is a miss, CS1 sells better and there's still no competition in the Sim City-like realm. So yes, a remastered version, kind of 1.5 would sell. I know I would buy it.

In 2023, PDX had sold 12 million copies of CS1 since 2015. I don't know how many bought CS II but probably no more than 2 millions were convinced to buy the sequel after 2 years and a lot regret it.

What I would like in remastered CS:

* No hard-coded limits (cims, nodes, vehicules etc.)
* More realistic graphics (if bought on catalog like CS II's, please change your supplier, at least for the cims)
* The CS II roads/tracks tools
* Seasons
* From the DLCs: tramways + Mass transit
* From the mods: 81 tiles standard (or even bigger maps as our PCs are more powerful) + TME, Find It & Move It.
* Mixed zoning
* some more things I probably forget

CS was done in 2 years by a 10 people team (7 or 8 when the project started, 11 at the release). A remastered CS wouldn't take 7 years and counting for the current team.

As you point out, it seems their ambitions outran their capabilities, possibly partially because they scrambled to add features that would distinguish the sequel from CS1. The game still contains the framework for supporting a lot of great features, though. If only they could weed out all the bugs...

Adding code for everything but the kitchen sink isn't great design. We know the reasoning behind this: let's make a game modders can modify inside-out and let's sell DLCs for 10 years. So what great features are there, apart from those included at release (the seasons, the road tools, no hard-coded limits)? The most popular mods are exactly the same than in CS1 (but missing something similar to the 81 tiles mod). With everything you can modify in dev mode, you would think the modders would have already changed a lot of mechanics to satisfy a variety of players. But they mainly fix bugs and holes in the simulation. How long can you hope a game has potential?

 

[IHOR MISKO]

So yes, a remastered version, kind of 1.5 would sell. I know I would buy it.

* No hard-coded limits (cims, nodes, vehicules etc.)
* The CS II roads/tracks tools
* Seasons
* From the DLCs: tramways + Mass transit
* From the mods: 81 tiles standard (or even bigger maps as our PCs are more powerful) + TME, Find It & Move It.
* Mixed zoning

These terms already indicate a remake, not a remaster. The absence of seasons and agent restrictions are related to the engine and the basics laid down by the developers at the beginning of the CS1 life cycle. Therefore, it may be advisable to simply develop a new game. Because CS2 is terrible, and the basis of CS1 needs to be heavily reworked. And, of course, to conduct better quality control of the work performed by CO

 

[Darthgrim]

Transport fever 3 gameplay screenshots look amazing! I hope this gives Paradox and CO a much needed kick to start engaging and communicating more.

Heck why haven't we received a simple "We hear you" message in this thread. with a follow up tease on "what's coming in the next few weeks?"

Its not hard to communicate, and silence is deafening and just hurts your brand and loyal customers more.

Come on PDX and CO, do something please!

 

[Arararamba]

Ok. Well now that we have sorted out wether or not CO/CS2 will be around or not we can go back to the real stuff.

I'm literally bulldozing all my offices when there stock reach 10k, then in Developer mode I remove all extra companies. After that I rebuild them all. I have a creative leaning so every building have to be exactly the same since it is in a wider context. When we write is there any new news. The only thing that is of relevance for me is, is there any news on fixing this and the rest of the economy that is in the worst kind of shape. I don't care about dlc, modders, editors or console. I just want to play a game. It's not much to ask for. This thread should be renamed to when can I play the game? So news about fixes please.

 

[raf8655]

Transport fever 3 gameplay screenshots look amazing! I hope this gives Paradox and CO a much needed kick to start engaging and communicating more.

Heck why haven't we received a simple "We hear you" message in this thread. with a follow up tease on "what's coming in the next few weeks?"

Its not hard to communicate, and silence is deafening and just hurts your brand and loyal customers more.

Come on PDX and CO, do something please!

If only this was what CS2 looked like...

Just look at the vegetation for example and compare it to CS2...

 

[Arararamba]

What I suggest is something several companies did, refresh an old game to give it a new life instead or in addition of a sequel. Sequels can be hit or miss. CS II is a miss, CS1 sells better and there's still no competition in the Sim City-like realm. So yes, a remastered version, kind of 1.5 would sell. I know I would buy it.

In 2023, PDX had sold 12 million copies of CS1 since 2015. I don't know how many bought CS II but probably no more than 2 millions were convinced to buy the sequel after 2 years and a lot regret it.

What I would like in remastered CS:

* No hard-coded limits (cims, nodes, vehicules etc.)
* More realistic graphics (if bought on catalog like CS II's, please change your supplier, at least for the cims)
* The CS II roads/tracks tools
* Seasons
* From the DLCs: tramways + Mass transit
* From the mods: 81 tiles standard (or even bigger maps as our PCs are more powerful) + TME, Find It & Move It.
* Mixed zoning
* some more things I probably forget

CS was done in 2 years by a 10 people team (7 or 8 when the project started, 11 at the release). A remastered CS wouldn't take 7 years and counting for the current team.

Adding code for everything but the kitchen sink isn't great design. We know the reasoning behind this: let's make a game modders can modify inside-out and let's sell DLCs for 10 years. So what great features are there, apart from those included at release (the seasons, the road tools, no hard-coded limits)? The most popular mods are exactly the same than in CS1 (but missing something similar to the 81 tiles mod). With everything you can modify in dev mode, you would think the modders would have already changed a lot of mechanics to satisfy a variety of players. But they mainly fix bugs and holes in the simulation. How long can you hope a game has potential?

I understand that you get solution orientated in this frustrating situation and I have also have this type of thought. But mine was more about dumbing down CS2 since the complexity in it self seems not to be manageable for CO. I'm not that techy but I understand that they chose to do CS2 limitless because cs1 players complained about it being to limited when it comes to agents, vehicles etc. They saw it was necessary to start from beginning and build this new game from scratch to fullfil this requirement.

 

[RodrigoMileski]

10 pages of hope ...

... sounds like a title of a bad movie my wife would see. Oh my word!

 

[Lys91]

I understand that you get solution orientated in this frustrating situation and I have also have this type of thought. But mine was more about dumbing down CS2 since the complexity in it self seems not to be manageable for CO. I'm not that techy but I understand that they chose to do CS2 limitless because cs1 players complained about it being to limited when it comes to agents, vehicles etc. They saw it was necessary to start from beginning and build this new game from scratch to fullfil this requirement.

What is weird is that this is this sort of "all agents" thing that ended up killing simcity.

 

[Rostan]

I agree. I would not mind a cheat, such as for example mixing simulated agents with Anno-style filler people. So as to at least have real impact on the city but reduce the total effect it has on performance. Hell, maybe just eliminate dogs to begin with. Replace simulated dogs with prop-fillers in parks and the likes.

 

[tweety80]

If only this was what CS2 looked like...

Just look at the vegetation for example and compare it to CS2...

Whaaa, nice.
It is a different game style, but I am still wondering if properties are tied to a grid. If we look at Manor Lords, that game has realistic property borders.
CS1 and CS2 also look nice, but the grid-based stuff only works in terms of realism for downtown areas in the US.

Most cities in the world may not have 90-degree-based properties, they grew naturally. In CS, you can adjust borders manually, but that is a pain.

I like city builders and hoped for CS2 improvements, but to be realistic, nowadays we do not get even a patch within 2 months. If we include holidays, that is only 4 or 5 patches a year. That is way too little to bring CS2 back on track... sadly.

 

[Artaios Greybark]

What is weird is that this is this sort of "all agents" thing that ended up killing simcity.

I mean that game even had an agent system for water and electricity. They thought they could model everything with this one system. It makes sense to have agents for people though.

 

[IHOR MISKO]

If only this was what CS2 looked like...

Just look at the vegetation for example and compare it to CS2...

Run part 2 and you will realize that the cities are just as bad, just the graphics are higher