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Narakir, I saw this thread, was just about to do a German essay, then realised this would be far more interesting. 
What's your MSN? We need to discuss nations, ideas etc.
I have TONS of event layouts/plans for Primorsk and the two Mongolias (communist and bogdo) you can use, as well as unit pics for both nations.
I'll need your email as I'll send them to you tonight so long as I'm credited as a co-developer in this mod, seeing as it looks as if you'll be taking a substantial bit of work from AWM.
What's your MSN? We need to discuss nations, ideas etc.
I have TONS of event layouts/plans for Primorsk and the two Mongolias (communist and bogdo) you can use, as well as unit pics for both nations.
I'll need your email as I'll send them to you tonight so long as I'm credited as a co-developer in this mod, seeing as it looks as if you'll be taking a substantial bit of work from AWM.
Sorry for responding so late... I've sent you my MSN and mail by PM, and by the way, welcome in as Co-Developer then . This morning I was thinking on how to improve Russia's and Mongolia so it might be good to speak about it.
. This morning I was thinking on how to improve Russia's and Mongolia so it might be good to speak about it.
Update: I've finished cabinets totally for Buryatia, Mongolia Communist, Mongolia Bogdo, Primorsk, Alash Orda and Siberian Provisional Government.
I also envisage a situation like this:
-Central Asia is divided in three- Alash Orda, Turkestan, and the Bukharan Soviet Republic, which will start as a revolter as soon as the RSFSR appears, or starts off as part of the Comintern should the communist nations begin as start nations.
-Siberia has an ongoing civil war in which a Bogdo Khan/Ungern Sternberg Mongolia is fighting a puppet Mongol government.
The Far Eastern Republic will be involved, fighting Primorsk and the Provisional Siberian Government. Buryatia and Tuva will have the chance to choose either Red or White as the game progresses.
Sakha will revolt in a second Yakut Revolt and will instantly have to survive against Siberia. They may seek aid from the COMINTERN.
-Ukraine battles it out between the Ukrainian National Republic (just finished a massive cabinet for them) and Nestor Makhno's insurgents. Russia tenuously holds on to the Crimea, as Wrangel would have had it before Ukraine was liberated again in the fictional White Counterattack I'm assuming this Mod will include. Independent Moldova a puppet of Romania.
Poland and Romania will also have a finger in this pie.
Ukraine could very probably be allied to the Kuban and Don Cossack Republics, whilst a Tatar Ruled Crimea will be a Turkish puppet to balance out the territorial losses the Turks will presumably have suffered to numerous other Anatolian Nations.
Again, the Turanist idea could well come into play here with Turkey, Azerbajian, Alash Orda, and other Turkic states allying.
- Poland will try and gain territories in Ukraine through intervention in the war there. There will be a trigger event which decides whether Bukovyna remains Polish or goes to the Ukrainians or Romanians. This could start a war. Belarus will also be reduced to a very small Polish puppet state around Minsk, which serves as a buffer from Russia.
- The Baltic States will include a Fascist Latvia ruled by the Perkonkrusts movement and very probably allied with the Axis. Tsarist Russia would never have had to settle with the Treaty of Brest Litovsk as they would have taken Russia back before the Communists could have signed it with the Germans, making the United Baltic Duchy German puppet state improbable.
Lithuania will control Grodno and Vilnius but not Memel, and will be ruled by pretender to the throne Mindaugas II. Estonia remains vanilla. No Polish seizure of Vilnius so cordial relations between the two nations.
- Germany is weaker here, threatened by events in the East and a resurgent Poland yet trying to expand Eastern European Nations into the Axis. These will probably include Latvia, Lithuania, and Ukraine. The Bavarian Communist Republic may well revolt at some point.
- Denmark still controls Iceland and Norway for no adequately explored reason other than to balance out the overcomplicated situation in the East with an easier one in the West.
- Yugoslavia will be divided up in another great Balkan gangbang, seeing as the Communist nations not adhering to Versailles, Sevres, or Trianon would stir things up a little.
Serbia would again be reduced to Macedonia and the region around Nish and Belgrade as in WWI, with Montenegro as a puppet state. Possible Russian or Greek ally. Bulgaria gains the Dedeagach to cut off Greece from Istanbul and balance things out with the war in Anatolia. Slovenia is Austrian (the Allies may have been more favourable in their partition of Austria-Hungary due to feeling the need for allies against the Communists), and the coastline of Croatia and Bosnia is Italian. Italy remains one of the few intact European states.
- Hungary could well be ruled by Bela Kun's communist government.
- Belgium will be partitioned between an independent Flanders, puppet of the Netherlands, and Wallonia will go to France. Luxembourg will gain areas of Southern Belgium (Namur and Liege?)
- Britain will have lost Northern Ireland at the start of the game.
- India will be an ongoing revolutionary process between an Indian People's Republic (I'm just developing the cabinet now) which could turn the tide of the Chinese Civil War. The British are severely weakened yet are still trying to destroy the Communist state, which starts off in two areas- Bengal and Kerala (where the majority of Indian Communist leaders seem to originate from).
Goa will also remain Portuguese as it should be in vanilla HoI2.
- Cambodia will be a puppet of a larger Thailand which controls the Shan States and areas of Malaya.
Those are the ideas I've got so far. The Spanish Civil War will continue as normal, but it's important we leave some non-communist nations intact. Many colonial powers should begin to lose their colonies, many of which should begin to express an 'unhealthy' interest towards the Comintern (Julius Nyeyere in Tanzania, Patrice Lumumba in the Congo).
Narakir probably has a plan worked out for the Middle East due to my AWM mod but what are the ideas for Australasia and the Americas?
I also envisage a situation like this:
-Central Asia is divided in three- Alash Orda, Turkestan, and the Bukharan Soviet Republic, which will start as a revolter as soon as the RSFSR appears, or starts off as part of the Comintern should the communist nations begin as start nations.
-Siberia has an ongoing civil war in which a Bogdo Khan/Ungern Sternberg Mongolia is fighting a puppet Mongol government.
The Far Eastern Republic will be involved, fighting Primorsk and the Provisional Siberian Government. Buryatia and Tuva will have the chance to choose either Red or White as the game progresses.
Sakha will revolt in a second Yakut Revolt and will instantly have to survive against Siberia. They may seek aid from the COMINTERN.
-Ukraine battles it out between the Ukrainian National Republic (just finished a massive cabinet for them) and Nestor Makhno's insurgents. Russia tenuously holds on to the Crimea, as Wrangel would have had it before Ukraine was liberated again in the fictional White Counterattack I'm assuming this Mod will include. Independent Moldova a puppet of Romania.
Poland and Romania will also have a finger in this pie.
Ukraine could very probably be allied to the Kuban and Don Cossack Republics, whilst a Tatar Ruled Crimea will be a Turkish puppet to balance out the territorial losses the Turks will presumably have suffered to numerous other Anatolian Nations.
Again, the Turanist idea could well come into play here with Turkey, Azerbajian, Alash Orda, and other Turkic states allying.
- Poland will try and gain territories in Ukraine through intervention in the war there. There will be a trigger event which decides whether Bukovyna remains Polish or goes to the Ukrainians or Romanians. This could start a war. Belarus will also be reduced to a very small Polish puppet state around Minsk, which serves as a buffer from Russia.
- The Baltic States will include a Fascist Latvia ruled by the Perkonkrusts movement and very probably allied with the Axis. Tsarist Russia would never have had to settle with the Treaty of Brest Litovsk as they would have taken Russia back before the Communists could have signed it with the Germans, making the United Baltic Duchy German puppet state improbable.
Lithuania will control Grodno and Vilnius but not Memel, and will be ruled by pretender to the throne Mindaugas II. Estonia remains vanilla. No Polish seizure of Vilnius so cordial relations between the two nations.
- Germany is weaker here, threatened by events in the East and a resurgent Poland yet trying to expand Eastern European Nations into the Axis. These will probably include Latvia, Lithuania, and Ukraine. The Bavarian Communist Republic may well revolt at some point.
- Denmark still controls Iceland and Norway for no adequately explored reason other than to balance out the overcomplicated situation in the East with an easier one in the West.
- Yugoslavia will be divided up in another great Balkan gangbang, seeing as the Communist nations not adhering to Versailles, Sevres, or Trianon would stir things up a little.
Serbia would again be reduced to Macedonia and the region around Nish and Belgrade as in WWI, with Montenegro as a puppet state. Possible Russian or Greek ally. Bulgaria gains the Dedeagach to cut off Greece from Istanbul and balance things out with the war in Anatolia. Slovenia is Austrian (the Allies may have been more favourable in their partition of Austria-Hungary due to feeling the need for allies against the Communists), and the coastline of Croatia and Bosnia is Italian. Italy remains one of the few intact European states.
- Hungary could well be ruled by Bela Kun's communist government.
- Belgium will be partitioned between an independent Flanders, puppet of the Netherlands, and Wallonia will go to France. Luxembourg will gain areas of Southern Belgium (Namur and Liege?)
- Britain will have lost Northern Ireland at the start of the game.
- India will be an ongoing revolutionary process between an Indian People's Republic (I'm just developing the cabinet now) which could turn the tide of the Chinese Civil War. The British are severely weakened yet are still trying to destroy the Communist state, which starts off in two areas- Bengal and Kerala (where the majority of Indian Communist leaders seem to originate from).
Goa will also remain Portuguese as it should be in vanilla HoI2.
- Cambodia will be a puppet of a larger Thailand which controls the Shan States and areas of Malaya.
Those are the ideas I've got so far. The Spanish Civil War will continue as normal, but it's important we leave some non-communist nations intact. Many colonial powers should begin to lose their colonies, many of which should begin to express an 'unhealthy' interest towards the Comintern (Julius Nyeyere in Tanzania, Patrice Lumumba in the Congo).
Narakir probably has a plan worked out for the Middle East due to my AWM mod but what are the ideas for Australasia and the Americas?
Give Luxembourg what consist the historical province of Luxembourg -currently shared since 1830 between Belgium and Luxembourg.
Could post an image of HoI2 Belgium? I could therefore helps you choosing the said provinces.
Well you know I've already sorted out what's have happened in most Western European countries and in Asia and America, the only doubts I still have is with the status of exact status of Poland and Russia and central Asia and a bit of middle east. In two years I had quite the time to settle this out you know
And for Luxembourg it has been annexed by the German Volsksrepublic, Belgium wouldn't have any power during or after the war to claim it anyway....
And for Luxembourg it has been annexed by the German Volsksrepublic, Belgium wouldn't have any power during or after the war to claim it anyway....
so Hungary will be independent .? and if that is so ...what is the status of Transylvania.? in our time line Romania and Communist Hungary fought over it and Romania won
Hungary is the "big part" of the autro-hungarian union and they didn't made any concessions but with Croatia which is their puppet, for the rest of their territories they hadn't to seceded it because there was no Trianon Treaty or anything like this, their army didn't surrendered as nobody actually won the great war. So basically they kept Transylvania and the power in place had the means to fight against any kind of communist revolt which hasn't occurred so Romania didn't have any opportunities to take it back. Tough this doesn't mean they'll not do it during the mod time line.
Aaah. Renders about half my cabinets redundant.
Personally I'd like to see Latvia, Lithuania, Tatar Crimea, Kuban Republic, Don Republic, Kalmykia, and Serbia-Montenegro included.
Is this possible or is the current European situation set in stone?
Personally I'd like to see Latvia, Lithuania, Tatar Crimea, Kuban Republic, Don Republic, Kalmykia, and Serbia-Montenegro included.
Is this possible or is the current European situation set in stone?
All the Baltic has been released out of the crazy federation I made and except for Lithuania there's nothing planned. About Lithuania I hardly see Mindaugas there as he was put there by the Germans I couldn't see how he could have stayed if the Reich isn't there any more... For the rest I guess we can make something interesting.
I'm tempted to add it but I fail to see any interest to it, Ukraine is already a puppet state reduced in size and that had already lost some of it's territory to the Makhnovtichna (I'm not 100% about the Makhnovtichna tough), but if you have a good idea I think we can make it.
Basically the cossacks are united into one big republic, I put parts of what have been done in AWM in these regards, Kamlyks are also in.
Both are in, but separated, at least at the beginning.
Mostly yes, perhaps we could make some adjustments latter but if this mod had to be released sometime
I'd advise to just keep what's really done as it is it and fill the remaining blanks and uncertain areas. I had some plans about Russia tough, so it might be niceI think it's better than we talk directly on MSN, tomorrow or another day if you can, I'm usually there on evenings.
About the map : I do not plan to use it for the first release, but then it's pretty sure I'll consider it.
I can certainly see an independent Lithuania countering Polish territorial ambitions in Grodno and Wilno. Even if the Reich was gone, Mindaugas could still be on the throne as part of a more nationalist Lithuania, which would be only natural if surrounded by a huge Poland and newly independent Belarus. The German-Lithuanian political alliance could well have stayed intact even if Germany's government had been significantly changed. I still like my idea of Latvia being ruled by the Peronkrusts Fascist movement though.
If you think about it this kind of bizarre mix of Imperialism (Austria-Hungary) versus Socialism which seems to have continued well into the 1930s in this mod would naturally make larger powers play off the rising tendencies of ethnic minorities to seek self-determination in former Imperial lands for their own benefits. For example, a resurgent Ukraine was advocated by Germany in both world wars, and even Pilsudski's Poland allied with Sveltlyura's Ukraine to fight the Bolsheviks.
I see no reason why this mod shouldn't be further divided to add dimensions of seperate civil wars within each nation. What with the spread of socialism and socialist ideals this would be perfectly natural given the 'Interbellum' era theme of the mod we're trying to develop.
Ukraine, for example, could be divided into a Ukranian National Republic endorsed by the Poles and Austrians but not necessarily puppet of either (that would depend on the leader in question), which could fight against a Don Cossack Republic favoured by the White Russians. Weaker states such as Monarchist Russia would have no choice but to entertain territorial aspirations of smaller states as the Whites did in the Civil War to garner support against the so-called 'G-dless Bolsheviks' of the USSR. The Makhnovshchina was seen by many Ukrainians as a home grown nationalist socialism on Ukrainian terms and an alternative to a Ukrainian Soviet puppet state, and so could be the Soviet 'puppet' Ukraine.
Similarly, with the Bolshevik counterattack on Wrangel's troops which initially pushed him into the Crimea never occuring, the small nationalist movement there would have had more time to grow.
In essence, this should be a moderation between feasible ahistorical situations and balance. By mixing up spheres of influence rather than having one vast region of Polish dominated Ukraine and Belarus, for example, we could mix things up a little along ahistorical lines. This is why I'm advocating a Tatar Crimea under Turkish supervision to balance Turkish losses in Eastern Anatolia to the Armenians and Western Anatolia to the Greeks.
Plus, why have the Cossacks in one big Republic? That wouldn't adequately depict the anarchic idea a conflict of Reds and Whites should convey, and it'd make a far too powerful buffer between Russia, the Caucasus, and a- presumably- Menshevik Georgia which would need to link up with the Soviets. I'd always thought that there should be a grouping of possibly mutually opposed non-communist states in certain regions which must overcome their territorial claims and differences to fight Bolshevism. That is where the fun in the gameplay would lie, and by making nation states too strong it's unbalanced.
For example, the Communist influenced state in Ukraine should be the Makhnovshchina. In the Caucasus, Menshevik Georgia. In Central Asia, the Bukharan People's Republic. In Siberia, the Far Eastern Republic and Mongolian People's Republic.
We don't seem to have added any significant Communist influence in Central or Western Europe, which is why I'm personally all for a Communist Galicia or Slovakia as well as the Bavarian Soviet Republic being resurrected. A stronger Communist or Anarchist Catalonia in the Spanish Civil War would also be an asset.
If you think about it this kind of bizarre mix of Imperialism (Austria-Hungary) versus Socialism which seems to have continued well into the 1930s in this mod would naturally make larger powers play off the rising tendencies of ethnic minorities to seek self-determination in former Imperial lands for their own benefits. For example, a resurgent Ukraine was advocated by Germany in both world wars, and even Pilsudski's Poland allied with Sveltlyura's Ukraine to fight the Bolsheviks.
I see no reason why this mod shouldn't be further divided to add dimensions of seperate civil wars within each nation. What with the spread of socialism and socialist ideals this would be perfectly natural given the 'Interbellum' era theme of the mod we're trying to develop.
Ukraine, for example, could be divided into a Ukranian National Republic endorsed by the Poles and Austrians but not necessarily puppet of either (that would depend on the leader in question), which could fight against a Don Cossack Republic favoured by the White Russians. Weaker states such as Monarchist Russia would have no choice but to entertain territorial aspirations of smaller states as the Whites did in the Civil War to garner support against the so-called 'G-dless Bolsheviks' of the USSR. The Makhnovshchina was seen by many Ukrainians as a home grown nationalist socialism on Ukrainian terms and an alternative to a Ukrainian Soviet puppet state, and so could be the Soviet 'puppet' Ukraine.
Similarly, with the Bolshevik counterattack on Wrangel's troops which initially pushed him into the Crimea never occuring, the small nationalist movement there would have had more time to grow.
In essence, this should be a moderation between feasible ahistorical situations and balance. By mixing up spheres of influence rather than having one vast region of Polish dominated Ukraine and Belarus, for example, we could mix things up a little along ahistorical lines. This is why I'm advocating a Tatar Crimea under Turkish supervision to balance Turkish losses in Eastern Anatolia to the Armenians and Western Anatolia to the Greeks.
Plus, why have the Cossacks in one big Republic? That wouldn't adequately depict the anarchic idea a conflict of Reds and Whites should convey, and it'd make a far too powerful buffer between Russia, the Caucasus, and a- presumably- Menshevik Georgia which would need to link up with the Soviets. I'd always thought that there should be a grouping of possibly mutually opposed non-communist states in certain regions which must overcome their territorial claims and differences to fight Bolshevism. That is where the fun in the gameplay would lie, and by making nation states too strong it's unbalanced.
For example, the Communist influenced state in Ukraine should be the Makhnovshchina. In the Caucasus, Menshevik Georgia. In Central Asia, the Bukharan People's Republic. In Siberia, the Far Eastern Republic and Mongolian People's Republic.
We don't seem to have added any significant Communist influence in Central or Western Europe, which is why I'm personally all for a Communist Galicia or Slovakia as well as the Bavarian Soviet Republic being resurrected. A stronger Communist or Anarchist Catalonia in the Spanish Civil War would also be an asset.
What is up with parts of Bavaria being owned by Austria? I have read through the pages and not found an explanation for this.
that will weaken Romania even more....you could instead make Transnistrian republic a puppet of Romania
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Well actually Bavaria is just a "länder" of the German Volksrepublic, since it's one of the main points where the socialist revolution started in Germany I hardly see how it could have been added to the Austrian Empire. The Austro-Hungarian army wasn't strong enough to confront it's former ally and they used their remaining forces to avoid the revolution in their lands.
Well I tough that Germany and France are enough for a start... it's quite balanced, even if history is rarely balanced
, it's quite a very powerful potential alliance and these countries have the actual power to protect a revolution. At the end of the historical world war, revolution failed in Europe mostly for these reasons.A socialist revolution in newly independent state such as Lithuania for example would have lead to a direct intervention of it's neighbours, like what have happened in historical Hungary, and for all these new-born states nationalism was more important than socialism in most cases if you see what had happened in Poland, the national rebirth was lead by socialists but this didn't spared the country to become a kind of "ambiguous right-wing leaning semi-dictatorship", when it happened they had to fight their "comrades" from the Soviet union they preferred to nationalism than to be a state among the others in the soviet union. The Ruthenian Ukrainian where in the same case but they weren't so lucky and they had to be mostly absorbed by Poland which was IMHO a determinative factor in the creation of movements such the one lead by Roman Shukhevych and his nationalists pals. Talking about the same case In white and Reds, Russia and Germany have switched, one begin a communist state, the other a fallen giant.
The main event that may lead to more socialist governments in Europe is the economic crisis because the Germans and the French will be relatively unaffected like the soviet union was in the historical time line and their model and influence will be used to export the revolution worldwide.
OK. On some of the maps on page #1 Austria owns three Bavarian provinces. Has this been fixed then?
Yes, the map has seen some changes since it was shown the last time and since we're still discussing about some changes with mehmet12 I'll post the final map when we're 100% sure of the final setting.
Yep- hope Narakir doesn't mind me disclosing this but:
-Germany may be divided into the Deutsches Reich, owning some of the colonies, whilst a Communist Germany owns the rest
-A more powerful Poland, with the Ukrainian National Republic as a puppet state
-The Makhnovshchina and Don-Kuban Union and possibly Tatar Crimea are making a comeback
-Assyria, Israel, Hashemite Union, Syria and Kurdistan fight for control of the near east
-Bogdo Mongolia (Ungern), Buryatia, Provisional Siberian Govt., and Primorsk fight for control of the Trans-Siberian
-Central Asia is divided between Alash Orda, Emirate of Turkestan (Bukhara) and Turkestani Republic (Tashkent)
-India is a patchwork of rebelling states, with Dravida Nadu controlling the very South, and two Indias, Communist and Fascist, vying for control of the North
- Austria-Hungary survives as a collection of Austrian and Hungarian puppets, claiming lost lands in Galicia.
-Germany may be divided into the Deutsches Reich, owning some of the colonies, whilst a Communist Germany owns the rest
-A more powerful Poland, with the Ukrainian National Republic as a puppet state
-The Makhnovshchina and Don-Kuban Union and possibly Tatar Crimea are making a comeback
-Assyria, Israel, Hashemite Union, Syria and Kurdistan fight for control of the near east
-Bogdo Mongolia (Ungern), Buryatia, Provisional Siberian Govt., and Primorsk fight for control of the Trans-Siberian
-Central Asia is divided between Alash Orda, Emirate of Turkestan (Bukhara) and Turkestani Republic (Tashkent)
-India is a patchwork of rebelling states, with Dravida Nadu controlling the very South, and two Indias, Communist and Fascist, vying for control of the North
- Austria-Hungary survives as a collection of Austrian and Hungarian puppets, claiming lost lands in Galicia.