There might be a fourth- there are also those who might have lived on the Iron Islands before the coming of the first men.
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There might be a fourth- there are also those who might have lived on the Iron Islands before the coming of the first men.
The "different form of life" comment from GRRM confirms that Old Nan is wrong in her statement that they are "cold dead things".
Here's Leafs quote about the old races that were native to Westeros. You will not find any mention of White Walkers.
Gone down into the earth … Into the stones, into the trees. Before the First Men came all this land that you call Westeros was home to us, yet even in those days we were few. The gods gave us long lives but not great numbers, lest we overrun the world as deer will overrun a wood where there are no wolves to hunt them. That was in the dawn of days, when our sun was rising. Now it sinks, and this is our long dwindling. The giants are almost gone as well, they who were our bane and our brothers. The great lions of the western hills have been slain, the unicorns are all but gone, the mammoths down to a few hundred. The direwolves will outlast us all, but their time will come as well. In the world that men have made, there is no room for them, or us.
Also as magically transformed humans they are not even a species anymore than Melisandre or Moqorro who have also been magically transformed are.
From the Worldbook.
Regardless, the children of the forest fought as fiercely as the First Men to defend their lives. Inexorably, the war ground on across generations, until at last the children understood that they could not win. The First Men, perhaps tired of war, also wished to see an end to the fighting. The wisest of both races prevailed, and the chief heroes and rulers of both sides met upon the isle in the Gods Eye to form the Pact. Giving up all the lands of Westeros save for the deep forests, the children won from the First Men the promise that they would no longer cut down the weirwoods.
So after failing in their second attempt at shattering the continent with the Hammer of the Waters, the Children realized they could not win. They gave up ALL of the lands of Westeros except for the deepest woods and all they got in return was a promise that men would not cut down Weirwoods.
That is not an even truce, that is a defeat.
Drift apart?
Only here, where the King in the North thre back every army that tried to cross the Neck, did the rule of the First Men endure. The Andals burnt out the Weirwood groves, hacked down the faces, slaughtered the Children where they found them, and everywhere procliamed the triumph of the Seven over the old gods. So the Children fled north.
The Andals were slaughtering them and more importantly breaking the pact by cutting down Weirwoods, that is not "drifting apart". Note also that the Children didn't flee to "the North", they simply fled "north".
"But the Children of the Forest are all gone now you said."
"Here, they are", said Osha as she bit off the end of the last bandage with her teeth. "North of the Wall, things are different, that's where the Children went, and the Giants, and the other old races.
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No were does it say that the Others are transformed humans, IF the tv show synapses is true then it would seem it is possible for them to turn people into them but it does not prove they were them.
It still does not say flee. It said the deep forest not the deepest forests, it says that it was the forests.
Sue me I forgot the First part. North is a pretty HUGE direction, the North is still north of many forests.
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"My Lord", Jon said quietly as the wood closed in around them once more, "Craster has no sheep. Nor any sons."
Mormont made no answer.
"At Winterfell one of the serving women told us stories", Jon went on. "She used to say that there were wildlings who would lay with the Others to birth half-human children."
"Hearth tales, does Craster seem less than human to you?"
In half a hundred ways, "He gives his sons to the wood."
A long silence. Then: "Yes" and "Yes", the raven muttered, strutting, "Yes, yes, yes."
"You knew!"
"Smallwood told me. Long ago. All the rangers know, though few will talk of it."
"Did my uncle know?"
"All the rangers", Mormont repeated. "You think I ought to stop him. Kill him if need be." The Old Bear sighed. "Were it only that he wished to rid himself of some mouths, I'd gladly send Yoren or Conwys to collect the boys. We could raise them to the Black and the Watch would be that much the stronger. But the Wildlings serve crueller gods than you or I. These boys are Craster's offerings. His prayers if you will."
. . .
The boy’s brothers,” said the old woman on the left. “Craster’s sons. The white cold’s rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. These poor old bones don’t lie. They’ll be here soon, the sons.
The Andals burnt out the Weirwood groves, hacked down the faces, slaughtered the Children where they found them, and everywhere procliamed the triumph of the Seven over the old gods. So the Children fled north.
Again the other CAN not are.
It never says the brothers are the Others. The others are capable of reanimating dead humans into zombies (wights).
The boy’s brothers,” said the old woman on the left. “Craster’s sons. The white cold’s rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. These poor old bones don’t lie. They’ll be here soon, the sons.
I thought with the TV show confirming this that we were finally past these arguments.
So new Others are made from human babies. What of it? We still don't know where the first one came from, and when we do, we will finally learn their nature.
don’t think it’s a good idea to include these in the mod at this stage. Gameplay-wise, an unstoppable invasion that leaves provinces an unusable wasteland in going to have severe balancing issues.
At least when you lose to dragon riders and are stripped of your kingdom, your family usually keeps its holdings and can continue the game (albeit as vassals to their new dragon overlords).
But… to lose the game because the walker event fired and you have no physical way of stopping them… I can’t see that being fun.
Slightly off-topic… does anyone else think that the wall should be just one province (with the big bottleneck bonuses), so that the AI Night’s Watch is better at defending it? At the moment, I see the wildings gobble up the wall, piece by piece, which is difficult to rationalise.
At least when you lose to dragon riders and are stripped of your kingdom, your family usually keeps its holdings and can continue the game (albeit as vassals to their new dragon overlords).
But… to lose the game because the walker event fired and you have no physical way of stopping them… I can’t see that being fun.
Slightly off-topic… does anyone else think that the wall should be just one province (with the big bottleneck bonuses), so that the AI Night’s Watch is better at defending it? At the moment, I see the wildings gobble up the wall, piece by piece, which is difficult to rationalise.
Not at all difficult to rationalize, in the books the Weeper and a completey separate army were attacking the Shadow Tower via the Bridge of Skulls even while Mance and his army were attacking Castle Black.
Oh yeah, of course the three-province set up is completely lore-accurate, I’m not criticising that at all. I just mean that for gameplay purposes, it makes it harder for the AI to defend the Wall, and it also makes for unlikely peace treaty outcomes. In my current game, the wildlings are at peace with the Watch, but only after having annexed the western section of the wall. THAT’s what’s difficult to rationalise.
I’m no expert, but I figure if the Watch only had one province to defend, and a constantly-raised retinue, the Wall would feel a lot more like an actual barrier to the wildlings. Maybe raids south of the wall could be handled by events.
I’m no expert, but I figure if the Watch only had one province to defend, and a constantly-raised retinue, the Wall would feel a lot more like an actual barrier to the wildlings. Maybe raids south of the wall could be handled by events.
Ah I see, that is indeed a bit silly. I did think there was something in place to prevent that sort of thing happening, I'll have to have a look.
Only having 1 province would give the Nights Watch even less to do in game though.
I've toyed around with the idea of giving the Wildlings a special raid CB against all provinces in the top half of the North (Winterfell to the Gift). Using the CB would carry the chance (depending on the LCs stats) that the Nights Watch immediately joins the defender. So the Wildlings would actually have to get around the Watch in order to raid their target.
I haven't worked on it in a while, but it might be worth having another go at.
Event troops, that fluctuate with the total number of courtiers they have, i.e. 30 courtiers, 100, 100, 1000
Btw this is what I meant.
The watch did eventually reclaim the sides of the wall (Loras Tyrell made an excellent LC) but then they lost them again 10 years later. What's supposed to stop it?
That's a clever idea to simulate wall climbers. Would be a bit weird if they ended up sending tens of thousands though. I know the Nights Watch is a WIP, but I think such events shouldn't be linked to the LCs stats, but rather the watch readiness as a whole (based on how well the southern kingdoms are supporting them).
The watch did eventually reclaim the sides of the wall (Loras Tyrell made an excellent LC) but then they lost them again 10 years later. What's supposed to stop it?
That's a clever idea to simulate wall climbers. Would be a bit weird if they ended up sending tens of thousands though. I know the Nights Watch is a WIP, but I think such events shouldn't be linked to the LCs stats, but rather the watch readiness as a whole (based on how well the southern kingdoms are supporting them).
I think the mod would be well-served with an Others invasion akin to the Mongol Invasion in the base game. Just make it a rare event that only happens when severe winters are occurring in Westeros.
I'm pretty sure this isn't going to be implemented any time soon, since we know next to nothing about the Others.