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Here are some maps about regional products in China during the Ming and Qing dynasties. Including agriculture, handicrafts, and mineral production. Perhaps Indian friends should also provide reference maps in this way for devs to modify.
Seems to me like Chinese silk production is mostly off in that the north china plain should have the majority of silk producing locations in china, while right now it has 1/13. TBH I wouldn't object to something like 40 silk RGOs being added to the north china plain. India and the middle east might remain ahistorically productive with regards to silk, but at least China would have the plurality, if not majority, of silk RGOs.
 
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The maps I provided are all within the time frame of the game, including product maps from the Ming and Qing dynasties. None of them are resource maps from modern China...
You haven't even looked at the information I posted for reference, and you don't even care about this issue. You're just constantly refuting me and maintaining the current material design.
The maps show nothing about the quantity of said resources. Nor the dates of extraction or effort required.

Is this surface mining, deep mines or bog iron? All have vastly different costs, outputs and productivity.
Considering the impact of India's raw silk exports in the 18th century, it is acceptable for India to have 33 locations for silk production, but China should have at least the same number of silk production locations.
Again, number of locations is not closely connected to actual output or even potential output.
You're right, it can't be done in China either. So your example is simply not valid.
How many are in the province in question? It's in one of the most densely populated areas in the entire world so presumably hundreds of thousands?
One location in China will have five times the output, if not more compared to a European location. So comparing the numbers of locations is pointless.
 
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I find it hard to imagine that there are serious issues with both gameplay and historical aspects now. The reference historical materials and maps are already prepared, and when devs explicitly state the need for suggestions for modifications, someone is saying on the side:

Isn't it impossible to play? Why modify these? I don't think there's any problem.

This is more like a rhetoric that rationalizes current design errors, assuming that all current designs have no problems and ignoring all reasonable suggestions. This behavior does not answer any practical questions at all, it is just an attempt to destroy all attempts to make suggestions.
 
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Viccy 3 had this same problem. I'd say all paradox games have when they do this "1 resource per province" thing. Not only do they not historically show which specific places had which resources, they misplace even the general trends of things. Like in Viccy 3 the wrong states have the most of resources like iron coal etc, and this makes there be absolutely no reason to create the historical outcomes. One of the funnest things in most parts of paradox's history games is the way that the game mechanics incentivize you to follow history and you kind of feel why things happened as they did because of it, but their resource systems is not a good example of that.
 
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The maps show nothing about the quantity of said resources. Nor the dates of extraction or effort required.

Is this surface mining, deep mines or bog iron? All have vastly different costs, outputs and productivity.
There is sufficient data and information here #2, which once again proves that you have not read any of the information presented in this post.
Again, number of locations is not closely connected to actual output or even potential output.
How many are in the province in question? It's in one of the most densely populated areas in the entire world so presumably hundreds of thousands?
One location in China will have five times the output, if not more compared to a European location. So comparing the numbers of locations is pointless.
Why compare production with Europe? Do you think about the per capita demand when China has a large population? Are you saying that the silk produced throughout China is only enough for Europeans to use? Even if the number of Europeans is a fraction of that of Chinese people at this time?

Besides, whether it can really produce so much is just your opinion. Why do you think it can be similar to the production volume in Europe? You didn't have any effective rebuttal throughout the entire process, you had neither data nor information, only your own imagination.

Additionally, the population of this location is only a few tens of thousands.
 
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The maps show nothing about the quantity of said resources. Nor the dates of extraction or effort required.

Is this surface mining, deep mines or bog iron? All have vastly different costs, outputs and productivity.

Again, number of locations is not closely connected to actual output or even potential output.

How many are in the province in question? It's in one of the most densely populated areas in the entire world so presumably hundreds of thousands?
One location in China will have five times the output, if not more compared to a European location. So comparing the numbers of locations is pointless.
well the game doesnt deal with that granularity. If the outcome is that persia produces more silk than china, surely you can see that's a significant issue. That shouldn't be the design and we should suggest they change it right?

In this kind of discussion where people seem to disagree on how the system will likely play out, lets just take a step back and instead talk about what we WANT to see happen: We can all agree that china should be the #1 producer of silk, porcelain, and probably a couple other things like fine textiles or smth. Meanwhile Europe should wind up exporting Silver back the same way along the silk road. That should be the resultant of how the resources are distributed. We can agree there?

If so lets simply encourage the devs to look at what they have in game right now and double check that's how its working. If its not, they can look at the maps OP provided and use those as good jumpign off places to add more silk, or whatever other measures they feel results in both good gameplay and trying to make the game feel immersive to history.
 
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BTW, @luo, you've posted this in the china feedback thread right? Just checking since while the india review indicates we're likely to see an underwhelming China review, it's still the best chance of the devs taking notes, if not for the review then maybe for (post-)release.
 
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There is sufficient data and information here #2, which once again proves that you have not read any of the information presented in this post.


Why compare production with Europe? Do you think about the per capita demand when China has a large population? Are you saying that the silk produced throughout China is only enough for Europeans to use? Even if the number of Europeans is a fraction of that of Chinese people at this time?

Besides, whether it can really produce so much is just your opinion. Why do you think it can be similar to the production volume in Europe? You didn't have any effective rebuttal throughout the entire process, you had neither data nor information, only your own imagination.

Additionally, the population of this location is only a few tens of thousands.
Hey @luo . I don't know much about the issue, but it seems that having a lot of silk in china would make sense. Not sure your point is helped by writing everything in huge and bold though. Its not fun to read someone shouting at me.
 
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There is sufficient data and information here #2, which once again proves that you have not read any of the information presented in this post.
There are no figures. Just symbols on unsourced maps with writing in a language i don't understand.
Why compare production with Europe? Do you think about the per capita demand when China has a large population? Are you saying that the silk produced throughout China is only enough for Europeans to use? Even if the number of Europeans is a fraction of that of Chinese people at this time?

Besides, whether it can really produce so much is just your opinion. Why do you think it can be similar to the production volume in Europe? You didn't have any effective rebuttal throughout the entire process, you had neither data nor information, only your own imagination.

Additionally, the population of this location is only a few tens of thousands.
Europe is the baseline which i understand. Basic resources and goods are presumably produced at a comparable rate per worker, at least up to the industrial revolution. With a few exceptions like specific deposits like some silver mines in Bolivia, Falu copper mine and so on. Crops would be climate dependant but overall comparable.

Consumption is a whole other thing and i'm not entirely sure how it'll vary but exports of luxuries like silk should logically be more profitable than internal consumption.
 
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The maps I provided are all within the time frame of the game, including product maps from the Ming and Qing dynasties. None of them are resource maps from modern China...
You haven't even looked at the information I posted for reference, and you don't even care about this issue. You're just constantly refuting me and maintaining the current material design.
Qing maps won't be very useful for guessing what production should look like in 1337
In China, the most important producer of silk, is the number of silk production locations only a fraction of other regions? Is this data sufficient?
Considering the impact of India's raw silk exports in the 18th century, it is acceptable for India to have 33 locations for silk production, but China should have at least the same number of silk production locations.


You're right, it can't be done in China either. So your example is simply not vvalid.
If vic2 rgos are anything to go off, then pops in provinces matter more than number of provinces with an rgo, at least until you can max out pop growth and immigration
I've always found the distribution of silk weird in that China doesn't enjoy a giant monopoly on it. Now, some provinces having it representing a strong silk trade makes sense, but like you said, it's bizaare there's twice as much silk in India than China.

On the spices thing though, I should note that India's love of spices started with the dawn of intercontinental trade with the Spanish bringing stuff like chili-peppers from south america, so it makes sense that their spice provinces should increase based from the middle-ages start-date.
Why would they have a monopoly on silk? Its long since diffused even if chinese silks retained a premium in the market
 
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BTW, @luo, you've posted this in the china feedback thread right? Just checking since while the india review indicates we're likely to see an underwhelming China review, it's still the best chance of the devs taking notes, if not for the review then maybe for (post-)release.
My friend (#2) posted it over there before.

Yes, but the information has already been provided. Whether to modify it or not is the responsibility of devs.
If it is not adopted, I will be very disappointed, but we will make modifications in subsequent mods. More than a hundred people are redrawing locations in China, and if not adopted, they may also transition to mods.
Many of us have created mods in EU4, but East Asia has not been given much attention by devs for a long time. Especially with the huge promotion of EU5 in the Chinese community, the highest view count in the trial-game video has exceeded 650000. It's hard to imagine how Chinese players would have imagined it if the situation in China was still like it is now when it was released.
 
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Agree, if Far East can't product the most of such goods, there's no need for European players to set up colonies and trade companies.
Theyll have the pops to produce enough in the east. The west has locations with the goods, but might not be able to supply enough, meaning ships are sent east.
The EIC was formed from members of the Levant company, as turkish sources of Pepper were insufficient, so direct contact with India was sought
 
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Estoy totalmente de acuerdo con el tema de la seda en China. Una forma de ejercer presión es que tus compatriotas chinos den "me gusta" a tus publicaciones sobre China en el diario del desarrollador. Por lo que veo, los desarrolladores están haciendo cambios según la presión que reciben en cuanto a "me gusta" o comentarios sobre un tema en particular. Así que es natural que el foro de PDX, que está repleto de europeos, preste más atención a sus quejas. Así que, quéjate y pide "me gusta".

Y si puedes, por favor dale me gusta a mis comentarios sobre EUV.
Please translate your posts into English, as this is an english language forum
 
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Many parts of China actually have extremely detailed records of local products.

Take Lijiang, a “silk producing” location in Yunnan as an example. According to a local gazetteer in 1743 (丽江府志略):

“The indigeneous people are not accustomed to weaving, both men and women engage in primitive means of farming.”

lj1.jpg


The major trade export seems to be salt. “They are not accustomed to using currency, when purchasing grain and firewood from neighboring tribes, salt is the major medium of trade.”

There are also detailed statistics about the amount of salt production. A newly opened salt mine was recorded to produce 641914 Jin of salt yearly, in which 373974 Jin were consumed for various expenditures, and the net production was 267120 Jin of salt, worthing 5876.64 Liang of silver.

lj2.jpg


lj3.jpg

Other local products include tobacco, honey, tea, paper, linen, paint and so on.

There was also a local copper mine, but it was eventually closed down for its poor quality.
 
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If vic2 rgos are anything to go off, then pops in provinces matter more than number of provinces with an rgo, at least until you can max out pop growth and immigration
Vicky 2 RGOs scaled based on starting population, vs here where RGO caps seem to be flat, only altered by current population, development, and technologies. It’s not impossible that silk production outside of China could be harshly penalized, thus making those 13 locations the majority of the world’s silk production, but it seems unlikely. Just looking at how things are set up currently Europe will need to import from the near east to compensate for limited native silk RGOs, which is realistic, but the Balkans, Persia, and India will be, in increasing order, the biggest producers of silk, with China either merely self sufficient or a net importer from India. Now maybe Chinese silk RGOs start out at a much higher level than everyone else’s, but the scenario I described seems probable by the mid-game, once a Balkan/persian/Indian tag starts investing in silk production to cut out the Chinese, which historically didn’t happen.
A newly opened salt mine was recorded to produce 641914 Jin of salt yearly, in which 373974 Jin were consumed for various expenditures, and the net production was 267120 Jin of salt, worthing 5876.64 Liang of silver.
I assume that’s a lot but could you convert those into units us westerners would be more familiar with?
 
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Vicky 2 RGOs scaled based on starting population, vs here where RGO caps seem to be flat, only altered by current population, development, and technologies. It’s not impossible that silk production outside of China could be harshly penalized, thus making those 13 locations the majority of the world’s silk production, but it seems unlikely. Just looking at how things are set up currently Europe will need to import from the near east to compensate for limited native silk RGOs, which is realistic, but the Balkans, Persia, and India will be, in increasing order, the biggest producers of silk, with China either merely self sufficient or a net importer from India. Now maybe Chinese silk RGOs start out at a much higher level than everyone else’s, but the scenario I described seems probable by the mid-game, once a Balkan/persian/Indian tag starts investing in silk production to cut out the Chinese, which historically didn’t happen.

I assume that’s a lot but could you convert those into units us westerners would be more familiar with?
In modern conversion, Jin = 500g = 0.5kg, but it has changed over time.
 
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