Why not a PROPER Majesty Game?

[Grygus]

...I'm quite sure that if they feel offended, they are fully capable of defending themselves.

No doubt. Take a step back and look at this thread, though: "Hey why don't we have this game?" "It's expensive to make games and we don't think it will be worth the investment." "You are all that is wrong with gaming." Why would anyone want to even respond to that? Yes, they can defend themselves, you're right. But why do they have to? Why are they under attack in the first place?

This thread could be a collaborative search for the truth, and maybe it is intended to be, but it looks to me like a series of demands with no room for negotiation. Either they make Majesty 3 immediately or produce proof that they cannot! That's not a conversation; it's an ultimatum. I don't think our relationship with the developers needs to be one of master-slave; we all want the same things. We all want a Majesty 3 that makes Paradox so much money that they create swimming pools out of it. We all want to play that game. Just as I am not enemies of you and Colombo, we are not enemies with the developers. How about we act like that? Why this tone? I just don't think it's going to be productive.

 

[unmerged(492719)]

At the end of the day, it just seems like your desire is very self serving. You want someone specific to make a game to entertain you, and won't take their 'excuses'. They don't owe this to you. It's not their job to give you the game you want. You are entitled to nothing.

You know what is a completely valid reason for them not making a third majesty game? They just don't fricken feel like it. That's all that is necessary, so stop whining. If you want to make a game in that fantasy sim genre, do it yourself, since clearly it just requires a kickstart.

 

[Tarantian]

At the end of the day, it just seems like your desire is very self serving. You want someone specific to make a game to entertain you, and won't take their 'excuses'.

Rubbish. The original Majesty is a cult classic, and there has never been another game like it, to declare that it wouldn't be able to sell is just unjustifiable, there is absolutely no basis for that assumption. It's the same sort of crap they said about RTS games and Strategy Games in general, it's the reason they gave for not making Horror Games, or RPG or JRPG games anymore, and for why tactical games weren't viable.

And they were wrong, on every single genre they were wrong, the market is there, and moreover, for a company that makes GSGs to make that argument is just sad. A company that is releasing a turn based 4x game in the vein of Masters of Magic meets Civ 5 should never make that argument. By the logic of that argument none of the games Paradox has made should have ever been made.

They don't owe this to you.

I never said that they did. I never in any way implied that they did. But this is the typical corporate apologist response, well done.

You know what is a completely valid reason for them not making a third majesty game? They just don't fricken feel like it.

But that's not the reason that was given is it? No, the reason that was given was an unjustifiable corporate assumption based on absolutely nothing but corporate assumption.

 

[Darkath]

As an aside - I'd love if PDS would find the time to do a sequel. I think they'd be great. To bad they're busy with Ro... I mean HOI4
/s

Rome II confirmed

 

[Tarantian]

"Hey why don't we have this game?" "It's expensive to make games and we don't think it will be worth the investment." "You are all that is wrong with gaming."

No, take the other part of what he said.

The unjustifiable assumption that there would be no market for a proper Majesty game is what set me off, I would have been cool if he said it was just a matter of cost but turning around and just assuming a market isn't there for it is representative of a problem that plagues the industry. And coming from a niche developer it's especially rubbish, following his logic none of the Paradox games should have ever been made.

 

[Tarantian]

Rome II confirmed

Well I'm happy about that if it's true, lots of fans

 

[unmerged(492719)]

But that's not the reason that was given is it? No, the reason that was given was an unjustifiable corporate assumption based on absolutely nothing but corporate assumption.

They also don't owe you an explanation.

 

[Tarantian]

They also don't owe you an explanation.

Nice corporate apologism, but the assumption that there isn't a market for games like Majesty is still unjustifiable and representative of a problem that plagues the industry, and on the basis of such thought no Paradox game should be made because they're all niche.

What customers are "owed" isn't even relevant to anything on the thread, you're just injecting notions of entitlement that aren't even implied by anything.

 

[Grygus]

No, take the other part of what he said.

The unjustifiable assumption that there would be no market for a proper Majesty game is what set me off, I would have been cool if he said it was just a matter of cost but turning around and just assuming a market isn't there for it is representative of a problem that plagues the industry. And coming from a niche developer it's especially rubbish, following his logic none of the Paradox games should have ever been made.

Oh okay. Except... Majesty 2 does exist. So they aren't relying on assumptions, and they are willing to make niche games, and in fact the company you're accusing of being part of a plague is in fact a prime counterexample to that stated problem. Oh, PC games can't sell? DLC won't work? There's no fan base? Paradox shows otherwise, not with snarky articles but with actual games: check out Crusader Kings, Mount & Blade, Europa Universalis, Warlock, Hearts of Iron, on and on but oh wait they're idiots because Majesty isn't in this list, clearly they have no idea what's going on and are ruining niche gaming. You honestly don't see the problem here?

 

[Colombo]

First off - I am an ogre.

Secondly - it's not that a sequel "can't make money" - a goat simulator is a top seller on steam right now ffs. It all comes down to: A: do we have a good plan for a sequel? And B: is it more interesting to us than all the other cool stuff we're looking at right now.

As an aside - I'd love if PDS would find the time to do a sequel. I think they'd be great. To bad they're busy with Ro... I mean HOI4.

In the meanwhile - let's enjoy W2.

/s

So, the answer is that zou now have more interesting projects to do?

 

[Lys91]

Nice corporate apologism, but the assumption that there isn't a market for games like Majesty is still unjustifiable and representative of a problem that plagues the industry, and on the basis of such thought no Paradox game should be made because they're all niche.

What customers are "owed" isn't even relevant to anything on the thread, you're just injecting notions of entitlement that aren't even implied by anything.

Come on. This is a company making and publishing niche game. I mean that is their whole business. They do not do AAA games at all. Even their first RPG seems to be a tactic one (you know the one you complained a few post ago no one were making anymore). I think given the type of game they publish, they are quite capable of asserting if a certain niche will be profitable or not.

 

[Shams]

Tarantian - I don't know what to tell you - you seem to either have made up your mind about how things work or are privy to other information than I am.

Additionally - Despite being an ogre I strongly disagree with being called a "corporate suits" - this is totally untrue - unless you call me than on a Friday - because on Friday's we have "Fancy Fridays" and we all dress up to spice up the monotony of wearing stupid Battlestar Galactica t-shirts the other days of the week.

Moreover - anyone who thinks we operate according to the same mindset as big publishers and don't take risks is plain wrong. Our entire business the past 5 years has been evidence of risk taking - Gettysburg anyone? We released an expansion about Indian lords set during the medieval ages that reached #1 spot on steam.

So when we say that pursuing a Majesty 3 right now isn't the smartest thing I think we've done enough to deserve your trust. Try to imagine that we ACTUALLY might be sitting on additional information that you are not privy to that help us reach that conclusion. We're not a bunch of monkeys in suits who fling feces at the wall to see which game poster it sticks to and make business decisions based off of that. Like i said - we wear t-shirts mostly.

We love majesty and would adore to make it - if we found a feasible way to go about it.

Finally - if there was one big universal truth I could broadcast for all gamers to hear is this - whoever thinks the only needed component in making a game is money, or even thinks it's even the most important component is dead wrong. Crowdfunding is a great thing - but this is truly the worst part of it. It's created this belief that if you just throw money at something your nostalgia will just magically appear.

The cost of developing a game is just a (often small) part of the costs involved with releasing a game.

In this case money isn't the problem - funding a Majesty 3 isn't a problem. We just happen to think there are better/more fun things for us to do than M3. We're not here to bring your specific dream game to life - we're building a business by making games WE want to make. You're welcome to hop on and ride with us as long as you want to - the more the merrier - just don't expect to be able to decide where we make stops.

/shams - Corporate Paladin

 

[Colombo]

So, you are an ogre paladin?

 

[Tarantian]

Oh okay. Except... Majesty 2 does exist.

A game called Majesty 2 that has nothing in common with Majesty exists.

But it's not a Majesty game. Fans widely denounced it. If anyone is looking at how THQ's reboot panned out as an indicator, that's like looking at the latest spiderman movie and assuming that no one wants to see spider man.

 

[Tarantian]

Tarantian - I don't know what to tell you - you seem to either have made up your mind about how things work or are privy to other information than I am.

Additionally - Despite being an ogre I strongly disagree with being called a "corporate suits" - this is totally untrue - unless you call me than on a Friday - because on Friday's we have "Fancy Fridays" and we all dress up to spice up the monotony of wearing stupid Battlestar Galactica t-shirts the other days of the week.

Moreover - anyone who thinks we operate according to the same mindset as big publishers and don't take risks is plain wrong. Our entire business the past 5 years has been evidence of risk taking - Gettysburg anyone? We released an expansion about Indian lords set during the medieval ages that reached #1 spot on steam.

So when we say that pursuing a Majesty 3 right now isn't the smartest thing I think we've done enough to deserve your trust. Try to imagine that we ACTUALLY might be sitting on additional information that you are not privy to that help us reach that conclusion. We're not a bunch of monkeys in suits who fling feces at the wall to see which game poster it sticks to and make business decisions based off of that. Like i said - we wear t-shirts mostly.

We love majesty and would adore to make it - if we found a feasible way to go about it.

Finally - if there was one big universal truth I could broadcast for all gamers to hear is this - whoever thinks the only needed component in making a game is money, or even thinks it's even the most important component is dead wrong. Crowdfunding is a great thing - but this is truly the worst part of it. It's created this belief that if you just throw money at something your nostalgia will just magically appear.

The cost of developing a game is just a (often small) part of the costs involved with releasing a game.

In this case money isn't the problem - funding a Majesty 3 isn't a problem. We just happen to think there are better/more fun things for us to do than M3. We're not here to bring your specific dream game to life - we're building a business by making games WE want to make. You're welcome to hop on and ride with us as long as you want to - the more the merrier - just don't expect to be able to decide where we make stops.

/shams - Corporate Paladin

Dude my whole issue was with how you said this.

I think that the audience for a PROPER majesty game is too small for A to be viable.

Based on what? If based on Majesty 2, it was like a tower defense game with no Fantasy Kingdom Sim elements at all, that had a 2000 page long thread about what was wrong with it and how it could have been better. It shouldn't even count as a sequel, it's more like a Spinoff, it is no closer to being a Majesty game than Warlock.

And Warlock mind you is a great game, but it's not anything like Majesty, which is the point of the comparison.

I just can't conceive of where you'd come up with the idea that there isn't a big enough audience for a game like Majesty.

 

[Colombo]

A game called Majesty 2 that has nothing in common with Majesty exists.

But it's not a Majesty game. Fans widely denounced it. If anyone is looking at how THQ's reboot panned out as an indicator, that's like looking at the latest spiderman movie and assuming that no one wants to see spider man.

I don't think so. Tone down Russian difficulty, add random-mission generator and make some balance in diversification of gameplay by removing that holy-ground requirement thing and you have something alike original Majesty.

 

[Alfryd]

In this case money isn't the problem - funding a Majesty 3 isn't a problem. We just happen to think there are better/more fun things for us to do than M3. We're not here to bring your specific dream game to life - we're building a business by making games WE want to make. You're welcome to hop on and ride with us as long as you want to - the more the merrier - just don't expect to be able to decide where we make stops.

Look, Shams, for one I'm happy enough with your answer here. If you have what seem to be more tantalising prospects on your plate, that's fair enough. I can understand that.

And yes, absolutely- you're not here just to fulfill our wishes, but to pursue the projects that you want to go after. And I fully understand and support that. You're right- you are not here to bring our highly-specific dreams to life. The problem is that your relative-lack-of-enthusiasm for this project is actively blocking other people from pursuing such ambitions. Hypothetically speaking, I, for example, couldn't go and make a majesty sequel, because your company is sitting on the IP, with potential legal threats on the horizon if money ever gets involved. (Which it kind of has to, if you want decent production values.) And even if I were to convince you that the project were financially viable, I'd have to establish it were more financially viable than other stuff you could be doing.

So yes, it's not fair for us to try and dictate what you should be enthusiastic about. But if you're going to prevent other people from using the IP, I think you do have a certain ethical obligation to try and make good use of it.

Nostalgia aside, I genuinely believe that a well-done Majesty sequel could be huge, or the door to something huge, but I obviously can't prove it. And as long as you don't believe it, no-one else can do anything with it. You won't lead, you won't follow, and you won't get out the way. And that seems a little unfair.

 

[Alfryd]

I don't think so. Tone down Russian difficulty, add random-mission generator and make some balance in diversification of gameplay by removing that holy-ground requirement thing and you have something alike original Majesty.

You'd still have to address the non-functional MP, the bland and broken AI, and the absence of maybe half the original's content in terms of spells, behaviours, classes, monsters, et cetera. Speaking personally, I also preferred a lot of the original's art and humour. <shrugs> But that's just me.

I mean, Warlock seems to be a pretty-well received title, and I'd bet money that Alexei and his crew were a lot more enthusiastic about working on a game of this type, because it shows. But if Maj2 didn't scratch us grognards' particular itch, MotA certainly won't, and we haven't all just fallen off a cliff someplace.

As an aside - I'd love if PDS would find the time to do a sequel. I think they'd be great. To bad they're busy with Ro... I mean HOI4.

Well, however distant that prospect is, I'd love to see it too. Thanks for responding, anyway. I think, on balance, you've been pretty gracious.

 

[Shams]

Dude my whole issue was with how you said this.



Based on what? If based on Majesty 2, it was like a tower defense game with no Fantasy Kingdom Sim elements at all, that had a 2000 page long thread about what was wrong with it and how it could have been better. It shouldn't even count as a sequel, it's more like a Spinoff, it is no closer to being a Majesty game than Warlock.

And Warlock mind you is a great game, but it's not anything like Majesty, which is the point of the comparison.

I just can't conceive of where you'd come up with the idea that there isn't a big enough audience for a game like Majesty.

I know you can't conceive where we'd come up with that idea - it's almost like you're not sitting in on all the Paradox meetings where we discuss this, look at data, analyze/track industry trends and constantly talk to colleagues and associates in the industry.

I'm sorry for the sarcasm but I find it arrogant that you somehow think your gut feeling is somehow more accurate than an entire publishing teams collective experience and knowhow about making & publishing niche games.

/shams

 

[Colombo]

You'd still have to address the non-functional MP, the bland and broken AI, and the absence of maybe half the original's content in terms of spells, behaviours, classes, monsters, et cetera. Speaking personally, I also preferred a lot of the original's art and humour. <shrugs> But that's just me.

Shh, I am trying to be positive!