CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...

[Silfae]

Does this mean the old profiles of past Roman emperors will finally be wearing togas and laurels? Will their faces be edited to resemble more closely their historical busts?

Are there plans to add the Praetorian Guard at some later point?

Will gladiators or the Colosseum be making an appearance?

1) Yes, if you own Holy Fury, they will wear Roman Clothing and use Italian faces.
2) As said above, unfortunately not.
3) Not as part of the Hellenic revival per se, but there is something close to gladiatorial combat that we might get to explore later.

 

[Silfae]

Some questions:
1. What ethnicity is the Roman culture? Greek, Italian...?
2. Will there be an imperial naming system, such as the Chinese one.
3. Will there be latin names for provinces (As there are one for almost all in the real world, I would expect)
4. Will there be Latin titles? such as Imperator, Rex etc.
5. Will the Gods only have their Greek names if founded by a character of Greek culture? Are the Latin names their default?
6. Adding on that will the Latin gods have their English names or their Latin names? such as Jupiter ≠ Iūpiter.
7. Won't destroying the holy see destroy all of the Catholic Christendom? (Perhaps the Pope could be relocated to within the HRE?)
8. Will more characters be shaved, as beards were usually reserved for the clergy and philosophers?
9. And last, can Rome get a new flag? The current one is kind of ahistorical.

I think this might be the best expansion yet.

I'll try to answer what I can.
1. Italian (as in the faces), the clothes are specific just for the Romans.
2. No.
3. Some have cultural names if I recall correctly, yes.
4. To an extent, yes.
5. Latin names are default, they switch to the Greek versions if reformed by a Greek.
6. Jupiter, etc. The same they have in the game's current live version.
7. No, the Pope must always exist unfortunately. He will just become landless.
8. Yes, Roman characters are indeed less likely to grow beards.
9. I'm afraid not.

I know it's silly, but seeing Augustus with a beard kind of ruins the immersion.

Augustus has indeed been shaven.

 

[Silfae]

I know that Roman culture isn't normally in game, but many of us use the console or ruler designer. So could Roman culture also be able to restore Hellenism?

Yes, I have taken that possibility into consideration. You can pick the decision as an inexplicably Roman character existing before a Roman Renaissance.

Does it mean Scholarship

Focus, or Scholar

trait?

Either works.

 

[Silfae]

If you reintroduce the faith after restoring the Roman Empire (in which case you already hold all the holy sites from what I can remember), will there be something in place preventing you from being forcibly swapped to Gavelkind since you can have Primogeniture (or Seniority, etc.) before converting as you basically can reform to a religion with access to good succession laws right away but could be locked out of swapping to one because the non-converting vassals dislike you too much?

If you are picking Doctrines that enforce a specific kind of succession, the succession law will be applied the moment you convert. If you are picking Doctrines that only enable a specific kind of succession, you will have to change the law manually as usual (the new law will just become available). This is of course valid for any Pagan Reformation.

Is this a DLC feature or is it free with the patch? (Not that it matter because I will buy it on day 1)

All events/decisions based on the Hellenic Revival are DLC-locked.

From a mo

Can modders apply this to other religions, such as Germanic or Slavic. So instead of Thor, Germans would have Donar, Anglo-Saxons Þunor, Norse Þórr?

There are new commands that can be used by modders to remove god names, replace the high god or add new god names, yes.
Some changes will already happen on Reformation, depending on the Doctrines being picked.

So it' not dynamic, depending on culture of particular character, but is set in stone once reformed?

Yes.
I understand that there might be other believable circumstances that could cause god names to be switched (for Hellenic or other religions), but, to avoid potential oddities, all changes happen during Reformation.

So... If you have an ongoing game, say, where you are the Roman Empire, say, and after getting Holy Fury (and hoping that saves are compatible[1]), might you get,I dunno, the decision to covert to Roman culture? Or would that only apply to the character that actually founded Rome...?

[1]Since said game started pre-Reaper's, it has made it through every expansion since then fine, so I would hope...

The Roman Renaissance decision should appear regardless, though, given all the map and code changes coming with HF, I'm not sure if there wouldn't be other strange things happening on the map.

 

[Silfae]

What exactly does

mean?
Do all holy sites become directly owned by the Emperor, or do all temple owners become direct vassals?

Temple baronies corrisponding to the Hellenic Holy Sites within your Empire are seized from non-hellenic priests and given to new hellenic priests.

 

[Silfae]

What kind of heresies and which mechanics will "that one dead religion" have? - omg i see myself building up now a proper amazon empire ^^

It's still a pagan religion, so no heresies, just a reformed and non-reformed version.

 

[Silfae]

Hellenism can return as an unreformed Pagan religion and automatically gains access to the Hermetics. I am so pumped for this expansion.

Wait... @Silfae Do unreformed Hellenics have access to Hermetic Society immediately, or do you have to reform Hellenism 1st?

They do, even before Reformation.

Anyway's just as a question...is one of the Hellenic specific pagan reforms the o so craved "Imperial Cult" or "Cult of Personality"?

There is no specific Doctrine for it, but there are some synergies that can somewhat approximate it.

 

[Silfae]

Is Polygamy an available doctrine for Hellenists?

Yes.

 

[Silfae]

hi i want do a question if i start with a Ruler Designer character with hellenic religion is possible restore the Roman Empire and have access to all this new events and decisions about hellenic religion?

Yes. Naturally, if the character is already Hellenic, you will not have access to the events dealing with his conversion and the subsequent outrage.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

They do, even before Reformation.

So unreformed Hellenics have access to the Hermetic Society, but if we do not select Astrology upon reforming the religion, do we lose access to the Hermetic Society?

 

[Silfae]

So unreformed Hellenics have access to the Hermetic Society, but if we do not select Astrology upon reforming the religion, do we lose access to the Hermetic Society?

Haruspicy, Astrology and Dedicated Temple are unique Hellenic flavor, they are never lost on Reformation.

Seeing how Hellenism as a unique name for their religious head will all pagan religions be getting this treatment or only Hellenism and Germanic paganism. @Silfae

All pagan religious heads are getting a special name for variation.

I'm wondering what parts of my mod I should remove so as to make it compatible with this incoming content. I don't want to have anything that would either interfere or be made redundant by Holy Fury.
Here's the link : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1506406375
Thank you in advance.

Giving it a quick look, I think it depends on what parts of it you prefer. Romans are getting special portraits, retinue, and cultural buildings, working the same way as any other culture, but if you find them lacking or wish to expand upon them, that could definitely be achieved without too much hassle via a mod.

The Three brothers: Zeus, Poseidon, Hades.

Would Pluto be a more appropriate name than Hades? Hades was the original name of he deity, but by the time of the Roman Imperial Era the name Pluton was used to refer to the ruler of the underworld in Greek, while Hades came to refer to the underworld. His Roman counterpart was Dis Pater (Rich Father); both names focusing more on his wealth aspect rather than the depressing death aspect, as gold and silver were also found in the "underworld".

Like I said, the gods' names will change depending on the culture of the Reformer. By default they use the Latin ones, but if you are Greek and Reform Hellenism, they'll switch back to the Greek versions.

Can there be hordes of rampaging, Poseidon-worshipping Hellenic steppe nomads?

Hm, it might be tricky for a nomadic ruler to get the option of converting to Hellenism (might be possible, I suppose...). But, if you pick the Seafaring Doctrine when reforming, Poseidon will indeed become your high god instead of Zeus.

 

[Silfae]

Are haruspicy and astrology hardcoded into the religion, IE we keep their mechanics even if we don’t choose those doctrines at reformation?

They are not hardcoded (in the sense that you can mod them not to remain regardless), but yes, by default Hellenics keep them.

Do other pagan religions have the High God switch upon reform too?

Yes, there are some Doctrines (or combinations of Doctrines) that can cause changes in the pantheon.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

Haruspicy, Astrology and Dedicated Temple are unique Hellenic flavor, they are never lost on Reformation.

That's better than I expected! Is there is a published list of which elements the other pagans keep upon Reformation?

 

[Silfae]

Will the religion description also be changed? If not, is it possible to assign a new one in an event?
What about the Scriptures, Evil God(s) name(s), Crusader name?

Evil gods yes, the rest no, I'm afraid.

When Rome is reformed, will there be an option to stay entirely Christian and reject even the thought of a Hellenic revival? "The New Rome is a Christian Rome!" or something.

Yes, absolutely, you can dismiss the event and proceed to play as a Christian Emperor, just like usual. You will still have access to the Burning of Rome event (which is also optional) and to the Roman Renaissance decision (also optional), even if you are not Hellenic.

If it is not too much to ask, can you spoil some of new names for pagan religious heads?

I think there's a couple that have been spoiled already and are scattered in the forum; I'd rather wait for a future update before revealing more.

 

[Silfae]

Never underestimate the players.

Why would you burn Rome as a Christian?

Well, you are not burning Rome, you are burning the Vatican, as an Orthodox Roman Emperor that wants to assert dominance over the Papacy.
Or you could just be a lunatic.
I'm just saying, the option is still available... And those pesky temple holdings are still in the way...

 

[Silfae]

Because its full of filthy papist, Latin, schismatic, sacking, backstabbing, barbarians posing as civilized peoples?

Naturally, if you pick that decision as a Christian ruler, you will not be shouting "It's your turn now, Galileans!", the flavor will be different.

 

[Silfae]

Woah. All those Hellenic temples... that's going to be a lot of gunpowder storage

Cool update on what pagan Autocephalous looks like. Are all reformed pagans going to get one king-level Top Patriarch, or is this a Hellenic-specific thing, for an existing empire, and every other reformed autocephalous pagan just gets bishop-level patriarchs?

Eh, no. The Hellenic Religious head is specifically King-tier: the Pagan Pontifex Maximus should have the same tier as the Christian Pontifex Maximus.

 

[Silfae]

what are the odds of Ai character who somehow managed to restore rome and is already insane doing this?

It is a possibility... The AI would need to restore the Roman Empire on its own first.

 

[Silfae]

What if your a Lollard or Waldensian burning down the holy see?

Any non-Catholic Emperor can get that event.

 

[Silfae]

@Silfae The DD mentions you can get events to become Hellenic if you are Greek, Italian, your capital is in Southern Europe and you control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites.

Does this mean that I cannot become Hellenic if I play as a character in England with English culture for example, or by playing as an Englishmen landed in Sicily for example?

Can I become a follower of Hellenism if I own one of the Holy Sites even though I may be of non-Greek/Italian culture and my capital is in Greenland for example?

Thanks.

Yes, those are the restriction. To use the Delve into Classics decision you must be a Christian Greek/Italian, have your capital in Southern Europe, control one of the Hellenic holy sites, and either be a scholar or insane.
As an English ruler a character would not have the ties and access required to be inspired to convert.

Sorry to ask a 3rd time but will other cultures have Hellenic localization's like Coptics using Greco-Egyptian names or Persians referring to Zeus as Zeus Ahura Mazda?

No relocalization for Coptics, sorry.